I hope Obama cancels the new Marine One fleet

[Stinky The Clown]

First ... the cost.

But more to the point, they're not 100% American.

Just keep the current Sikorsky fleet in the air. They are among the very best maintained aircraft on the planet. And 100% American made in Blue Connecticut.

[bdab1973]

1. They are old, and no amount of maintenance will keep the airframes free of fatigue

I fly 47 year old airplanes in the Air Force, and our maintenance guys are ALWAYS working round the clock to keep them airborne...and even then, we have a pretty dismal record. It's rare to launch a 5-ship formation and have all 5 aircraft takeoff together. Usually one or two breaks.

While it's true that many parts get replaced over the years, nothing can be done about the airframe itself. Many helicopters experience high and low frequency vibration fatigue, and this takes a toll on the airframe.

I will agree with you that we should have bought the S-92 made by Sikorsky. I am roundly opposed to buying foreign aircraft for our government or military needs. Same thing with the Air Force tanker...it should go to Boeing.

[backscatter712]

13. It's your basic economic decision at this point.

The Bushie replacement for the Marine One choppers has been a bottomless money pit. Only a couple test craft are flying, they're waaaaay overbudget, they're too heavy, they've got a lot of problems.

So now the question is whether we choose to take them all the way through, or whether it's cheaper to call Sikorsky, like we should have, and order some choppers from them. I suspect that it'll be cheaper to call Sikorsky.

[remoulade]

15. Helicopter: The only machine ever designed whose principal mission is to destroy itself.

(old joke from my aero engineering classes...only partly in jest)
;-)

[backscatter712]

16. Pretty true.

They're cantankerous machines and it's a miracle they don't shake themselves apart.

[TheDebbieDee]

2. Is the supplier already in the process of building the fleet?

If so, cancelling the order might require the manufacturer to lay off some workers (They could be Americans, too.).

If not, then the manufacturer may not be able to hire the people (Americans, let's hope) necessary to augment his staff to build the Marine One fleet.

It always six of one and half a dozen of another when it comes to spending versus jobs - you can't have one without the other!

[bdab1973]

6. Yes, they are close to entering service...

Most of the "bugs" that have to be worked out involve the mission equipment (ie, communications gear, etc), and not the actual aircraft itself.

There are SOME American jobs invested in this, but it would have been better had Sikorsky gotten the contract.

[theoldman]

3. Americans make excellent aircraft and there is no reason to buy

them from another country. I worked in this industry for 40 years and have seen some of the crap made in other countries. The problem is that we don't buy the best made in other countries. We tend to buy the worst made in other countries. Why? Because they are cheap. You get what you pay for.

[bdab1973]

8. EADS is quickly overtaking the US aerospace industry...

EADS is the European Aerospace, Defense and Space company.

It receives substantial EU subsidies, and it owns outright or shares in Airbus, Eurocopter, Eurofighter, Dassault, ATR, Socata, Messerschmitt-Bolkow-Blohm (MBB), CASA, Dornier, Astrium (space) and a few others.

EADS aircraft are actually very good aircraft, but I feel that US aircraft are just as well made if not better. EADS has tried to make inroads with DoD and other US government spending by offering products cheaper than Boeing or Lockheed can, because much of their production is subsidized. Reference the F-22 thread, and I wrote in there about how we need to rally behind our aerospace industry because it's one of the few industries we still have a lead in (but not for much longer if we allow EADS to consume more market share).

[catnhatnh]

4. Good news though...

Union at Sikorsky (plants in CT and FL) with 5100 workers signed a 5 year contract with 18% wage increase plus bonuses...posted earlier by Omaha Steve.

[Stinky The Clown]

7. Sikorsky and my Dad's hard work raised my bother and me in nice, comfortable, middle class style.

He worked there for most of his working life.

I worked there a few summers and after I got out of the Navy and before I went back to school.

My Dad was a union steward. Union wages made it possible for us to have Mom at home ... except for two part time stints when they wanted to buy a car. She worked ONLY while we were in school and only to earn enough to buy the cars outright.

THAT ..... is what unions allow.

[catnhatnh]

9. I asked earlier about a good memory I had of industries with unions...

Remember Industrial League sports and their stadiums? The World Champion (multiple times) Raybestos Brakettes woman's softball teams?

[Stinky The Clown]

10. I sure as hell remember Joanie Joyce

We used to go often to see the Brakettes play. Fast pitch pro softball. And those pitches would smack the catchers mitt with way more noise than any hardball pitch ever did.



Joan was a perennial all star in that league and probably the franchise player.

I wish I could find the old Raybestos Brakettes logo. I can only find the newer ones used after Raybestos stopped their sponsorship.

You know that baseball field later became a Superfund site, right?

[catnhatnh]

11. Sadly yes, and shame on me for forgetting it was fast pitch....

I dated a girl on their junior club called (I believe) the Robins. Gorgeous little field and real hometown sports!!! Summer night games....youth and romance....hair on TOP of my head...

Thanks for the photo...

[GrizzlyMan]

5. The new one is also hideous

A truly ugly,awkward looking bird.

[Stinky The Clown]

12. Lockheed Martin has the contract ... Lockheed Martin is NOT our friend.

Cancel things where they are and take their work product/engineering as done to date. Pay them off and get Sikorsky to do it.

And challenge the Pentagon to make do with a slower delivery schedule.

edit to properly spell "cancel"

[remoulade]

14. Damn right! Nothing says American like Sikorski!

:D

calm down, it's a silly anti-nationalistic joke
;-)

[BlooInBloo]

17. I lol'd.