Let's try this - free post-secondary education

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

States should offer free post-secondary education to all its interested citizens via public learning institutions. This plan would not only include traditional four year colleges but also two year colleges, community colleges and trade schools. This plan, though admittedly costly at first, would ultimately benefit our country in several ways.

Economically it has been demonstrated time and again in academic studies in in real-world scenarios that the better educated a workforce is the stronger the economy is. A better educated workforce is more likely to perform its jobs well, notice redundant aspects of their jobs, and innovate how to improve efficiency. This reduction of waste could save our country millions of dollars a year, while new innovations could produce even more revenue.

It is well-known that the more educated a person is the more open that person is to different ideas and cultures. By granting all of our citizens post-secondary education we will be creating a more tolerant society.

Finally we take our place in the world as educational leaders and set an example for other post-industrial and industrial nations to follow.

What do you all think?

[tekisui]

1. Well said! KNR!~

[Mike 03]

2. Education is crucial.

Should these costs cover payment at private universities?

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

6. I would say no.

In some ways that would be like the school voucher problem - public funds going to private institutions, including some institutions which are at times at odds with public policy. Also it adds a whole new level of bureaucracy to the mix that can be avoided.

Let private schools compete with public schools on the market. If the private schools wish to survive, they'll have to become more attractive either by improving the education, the price, or both. It should work out to win-win for prospective students either way.

[vanderBeth]

I would think it to be more of the government "picking up the cost"

which I would think should include private universities. I don't expect state schools to stop charging tuition as the way to free education, and there are other costs that students need that wouldn't come from the school itself.

[varelse]

3. I think

that I like the way YOU think :)

:kick:

[Bluebear]

4. Absolutely. k/r

[Xipe Totec]

5. To those who qualify academically

I have no problem with it.

We don't want it to turn into continued baby sitting for yuppie larvae.

There should be a winnowing process.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

7. Yes, absolutely.

Of course, that's why I included community college and trade schools in my list.

You'd be surprised at what quality of education you get at some community colleges. Quinnipiac out by Worcester is doing quite well these days.

[Bluebear]

10. Yes, hence the trade school option

Agreed.

[Xipe Totec]

13. Nothing wrong with trade school

I was privileged to have my secondary education in Mexico.

Qualifying exam was required for entrance to 7th grade. 50% failure rate.

Training in vocational school was mandatory, just in case you didn't make it to college.

I was trained as a radio & TV repairman.

All in all, a good experience.

[reggie the dog]

19. yeah,

if you flunk out of the university, you flunk out, perhaps you can try again after ten years, but trade schools should still be open to you. If you fail out of them, perhaps you can try again in ten years.

[valerief]

8. You mean we should do what civilized countries do? But uber-wealthy

people may be forced to pay more in taxes. That's heresy!
:sarcasm:

[Mike 03]

9. P.S, Kick and Rec NT

[roody]

11. Sounds like a damn commie idea to me.

Oh, I am a damn commie. I like it.

[midnight]

12. A real important reason to spread education freely.

"It is well-known that the more educated a person is the more open that person is to different ideas and cultures. By granting all of our citizens post-secondary education we will be creating a more tolerant society." I'm afraid that part of the blueprint for the majority of us is to prevent a "tolerant society" from occurring. Tolerance might breed peace. Peace might bring prosperity for all. Those who want to keep classism alive do so by creating war and other disparities.

[Ichingcarpenter]

14. Let's get rid of the Sports Jock scholarships or at least

tone them down and reward academics for a change.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

15. I'd love to see that, but too many schools (public and private)

use athletics as a revenue engine. The over-the-top scholarships and perks athletes get won't be toned down until we can change how schools make money.

[Eryemil]

21. I thought schools actually lost money one those?

[Jkid]

16. Great idea.

Why not grant free post-secondary education for anyone accepted into any public institution? Plus free room and board, and a weekly check of $500 a week, to prevent student poverty and homelessness, as long as you maintain a 2.0 average.

But you know that is not going to happen, Congress will be too busy providing corporate socialism.

[exboyfil]

17. If you are advocating complete meritocracy all the way

down the line, then your suggestion has merit. You are proposing a system like the Germans in which early on the decision about your future is made by the state. If you are tracked into the apprentice class, you stand little chance of ever getting out of that track.

This slotting is meeting with increased resentment by recent immigrants and current non-professionals who see that another generation is pegged to be in its current social position.

In fact several public universities in Germany are starting to charge tuition because they find the free model is breaking down.

My kids do really well on standardized tests, have an excellent school system, and they have parents committed to their future and the capabilities/resources to influence that future. So bring on the selection process now for free tuition all the way.

If you are proposing free and open access to anyone at any level (engineering school to trade school) then you are back to the question, who gets the opportunity? My state (like the UC system) charges about $6K/yr for tuition. The actual cost of that education is closer to $20-30K/yr (and its value depends on the degree but $20-$30K/yr for an engineering degree is a great investment).

[pampango]

20. Countries that provide free post-secondary education do not have the same high

percentage of people going to college. They whittle down the number of college students through rigorous entrance exams or by other means. The rest are tracked in other directions. Their governments can' afford to provide free college to as high a percentage of people as attend college in the US.

I still like the idea on balance, but their is the cost of reducing the number of people who get to attend college.

[exboyfil]

22. I think in that regard we do have a balance

at least in our three state universities. Access is widely available (basically being in the top half of your high school class). Currently the tuition (at $6-$7K/yr) is not a real hurdle to getting your degree. The other expenses (such as room and board) are just a function of having to live someplace. Some free money is available for those coming out of low income families, but I would like to get more details about the nature of this financial aid. One university has free rides for a family of four making less than $33,000/yr (you have to be in the top ten percent of your graduating class). If you average all awards "free money" across the entire student body, then you get a $3K/yr figure.

Alot of the state financial aid goes to normalize the tuition in the private colleges in the state, and I have something of a problem with that.

The projected cost, in current year dollars, of getting a four year degree is $80,000 (this includes everything - tuition, room and board, etc). Students should be income earners as well as their parents towards college. Doing some simple calculations and assuming starting to work at 15, working 40 hours/wk for 12 weeks during the summer and 15 hours/wk for 38 weeks during the school year, minimum wage the whole way, and 10% tax rate, a student can earn over $50,000. Even without a dime of parental participation, the student would come out of school with only $30,000 in student loans - not an insurmountable number.

[reggie the dog]

18. this exists alread in Scotland

and works very well for their people.

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

23. NYC did it up until the 60's or 70's

City University had a campus in each borough. All we had to do was pay for books and most student got a state scholarship that covered those.

Funding for this should have been part of a bottom up financial rescue plan instead of the top down plan that was passed in the Fall

[ellacott]

24. California used to do this also