Why in the Hell Wasn't Dr. Howard Dean Originally Chosen to Be Secretary of Health & Human Services?

[David Zephyr]

Dr. Howard Dean should have been Obama's first choice to have been Secretary of Health and Human Services. Period. End of the "argument".

Dr. Howard Dean, a graduate of Albert Einstein College of Medicine, happens to know just a little bit about this subject. Dr. Dean, whose wife is still a practicing physician herself, was the first Governor of any of our 50 states to provide health-care to every child in his state. Dr. Dean set the example while all of the other career politicians just talked about it. He created the first national template in Vermont.

Dr. Howard Dean not only has a sharp intellect and sweeping knowledge of medicine, but also has unquestioned successful executive experience at providing health-care to the general population. His foresight and problem solving skills were not only recognized in Vermont, but he later took the national Democratic Party from its pathetic, cowardly and impoverished minority status to a rejuvenated, courageous and empowered majority status in 2006...against all odds. Dean's stunning political success as Chairman of the Democratic Party and his commitment to his then-ridiculed 50-state strategy set the tables for a second electoral sweep in 2008.

On the other hand, we have Mr. Tom Daschle. Tom Daschle is an embarrassment to our Democratic Party. He and his lobbying wife spent decades blurring the line between illegal bribery and just plain old unethical lobbying. In fact, Tom and Linda Daschle are the Democrats' mirror image of Phil and Wendy Gramm. Tom Daschle permitted more reactionary and right-wing legislation to pass under his "leadership" of the Senate when he was majority leader than what was passed under his GOP replacements, Trent Lott and Bill Frist. Patriot Act? Tom Daschle. Iraqi War Resolution? Daschle's list of "accomplishments" as Senate Majority Leader is a record of shame...if one is a Democrat and not a Republican.

Good God! Daschle is precisely the wrong prescription for Barack Obama's new administration. Daschle has spent the last years working as a lobbyist -- without the honesty of registering as a lobbyist -- for the very corrupt health-care executives who directly benefit from the current immoral situation where nearly 50 million Americans have no health-care whatsoever. And, typcial of Dashcle, he hid his tax fraud from Obama and worse, he wants to carry that ethics-challenged virus right into Obama's Cabinet.

Memo to Obama: Get rid of the Quack and hire the real Doctor. And do it now.

Here's a picture of what a great American Secretary of Health and Human Services would look like!

[GoesTo11]

1. Howard Dean has vision and deep thinking skill necessary for this job now

The whole system needs to be rethought, it involves medicine, economics, community, technology. Howard Dean showed his skills as a visionary and as a systems thinker when he saved the Democratic party. He leveraged technology and community and found new ways to do things that were radically better. This plus he is a doctor. No-brainer.

[L. Coyote]

128. Just the guy to lead a bipartisan effort, right?

Dr. Howard Dean led the political effort that defeated the Rs.
That is likely why he is not leading a bipartisan effort right now.

[camera obscura]

2. He was ruled outfor being "too partisan" and having no congressional experience. Plus, Rahm.

... all of which is incredibly dumb, but not surprising for Washington DC.

[cascadiance]

15. Rahm should be told that he is NOT the boss!

Obama is the one that calls the shots, and Dean being selected or not should be a reflection of Obama's judgement not Rahm's. If Rahm doesn't like it, he shouldn't have signed on to the cabinet. He should realize that the DLC wasn't elected to run this country.

[JVS]

31. He should be fired. He sucks.

[tavalon]

96. Rahm, surprisingly, hasn't sucked so far

But, I agree with the part about Howard Dean. Howard may not have wanted the spot, but I suspect he did and I don't think any of the reasons given make any sense. I would hope that Obama would reconsider and place him somewhere in his government. Thing is, the grassroots (that's us) think of Howard Dean as the man who got Obama elected with his 50 state strategy and if Dean walks out there in 8 years and says, yeah, I'd like to run for the President thingy again, there are at least two contenders who will be knocked out - Biden and Clinton, so Obama would do well to keep Dean's favor rather than risk his wrath. Dean is a party man, but if he gets mad enough, he could take apart our party from the inside - they would do well to remember that.

[DFW]

131. In 8 years, Howard will be 68

He has already addressed the generational issue (see more details in post #94 below), and
is not of the opinion that someone age 68 should be running, especially not now. He very
much includes himself in this. He would never tear the party apart from the inside-ever.
If things got completely nuts, he might withdraw, but that is about the most drastic thing
conceivable. We have no one more dedicated to the cause and not himself personally, with
the possible exception of Al Gore. The two of them speak more than occasionally, and are
pretty much on the same wavelength.

I was not thrilled to hear what he had in mind or his immediate future, but it's his call.
He has certainly paid his dues, and deserves to have his decision respected. He does not
demand or ask anything in return for all he has done, and he knows full well from the man
in the White House as well as our congressional majority that his efforts have been richly
rewarded. To boot, wherever he goes, including the dinner last night, he gets told in no
uncertain terms, how much we recognize and appreciate all he has done for the Party and the
country.

[Captain Hilts]

33. It's always someone else's fault. nt

[Baby Snooks]

109. Wrong...

He IS the boss and all you need to do is look at who has been appointed to know it. Heavy on the "Clintonistas" and the DLC which should be renamed the RLC. The Republicrat Leadership Committee.

Rahm is just another Rove. He will prove to be this administration's undoing.

[cascadiance]

130. Whether he operates that way or not, he's not supposed to be boss!

And we need to keep remind Obama of this fact so that he doesn't allow the DLC folks underneath him telling him what he should do. I want to believe that Obama is still his own man, and still have not seen him personally operate like Rahm just yet, so its important that he establishes himself as the boss he's supposed to be.

Now if he does let Rahm tell him what to do, then you are right that this will be this administration's undoing.

[byeya]

112. Rahm thinks the DLC is in charge and indeed it may well be.

Obama made a mistake in having Emmanuel anywhere near a lever of power much less giving him such daily control. Replace Rahm with Dr Dean...how about that? Which side are you on Obama?

[closeupready]

181. Exactly. Rahm Emanuel is NOT in charge.

Period!

[MADem]

200. Uh, Rahm isn't IN "The Cabinet." He's got a staff position in the White House.

He's top dog on the staff, but he's not a Cabinet Secretary who is confirmed by the Senate.

Obama IS the one to call the shots. I'm quite sure Rahm "gets" that. I am also pretty sure that a lot of people here DON'T get that. They think Obama's an idiot who's being bamboozled by the clever Rahm, which is an insult to Obama as well as to Rahm. It suggests that Obama is clueless and Rahm is nefarious, and neither characterization is accurate.

However, you might want to look at Obama's cabinet--it's got plenty of DLC representation in it. That's not Rahm's fault--these picks are OBAMA's, after all.

[Dawgs]

32. Plus Rahm what?

[camera obscura]

49. As in "plus, [can you imagine no-drama Obama picking] Rahm [and then picking his longtime rival?]"

[tavalon]

97. Rahm and Howard didn't get along splendidly

As a matter of fact, they didn't get along at all.

[byeya]

113. Another point in Dr Dean's favor! n/t

[PassingFair]

53. And you know this how?

Links?

I don't think Obama even CONSIDERED him for the spot.

Looks like Obama has a ONLY DLC NEED APPLY sign
over his cabinet employment office.

[camera obscura]

65. "given his partisan background and lack of congressional experience"

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1108/15608.html

Yes we all hate Politico, BUT I have heard this cited as gospel truth by people who know what they're talking about.

[PassingFair]

171. I don't "hate" Politico....I just don't go there for facts....

How is Howard Dean more "partisan" than Tom Daschle?

When was the last time the HHS head had to have
"congressional experience"?

[MADem]

84. The PRESIDENT made the decision. Obama's in charge. Not Rahm. Rahm is a foot soldier.

A valuable one, a hatchet man, an adviser, but the decision was the President's.

Don't be playing Rahm off to be the Karl "Evil Genius" Rove, here, despite Joe Trippi's assertions (and Trippi hasn't been around Dean for awhile, so what would he know, anyway?).

A close friend to Emanuel insisted that the incoming chief of staff was not plotting against his old adversary.

“I talk to Rahm every day,” said the friend. “Neither he nor I have mentioned the name of Howard Dean. It’s just not on his radar screen.”

In any event, the friend said, Dean would know for sure if he was being shunted aside by the new administration.

“Rahm never stabs you in the back. He stabs you in front. But I promise that this was accidental.”

Jim Dean said the past scrapes with Emanuel may be partly to blame, but, like some others close to the chairman, he was mostly mystified at the treatment.

“I get grumpy about it,” Dean said. “In fact, I was grumpy about it over Thanksgiving, and Howard pushed back and said, ‘Look, they’re not going do everything for everybody.’”

“He understands this is a grown-up business.”

...
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0109/17254_Page2.h...

Obama and Dean are not on the same page in the strategic vision game. They never have been. I also think that Obama doesn't care for Dean's "independent streak" and habit of speaking his mind instead of staying on message.

Now, you can dislike that fact, but to put the blame on "Rahm," and absolve Obama, is just bull. Obama's large and in charge--he is responsible for this decision, not Rahm Emmanuel. He made the final decision to freeze Dean out, and he made the decision to announce Kaine as new DNC chair when Dean was off in the South Pacific. This was deliberate, and it probably is more personal than any of us will ever realize.

[camera obscura]

88. Relax, that's not what I'm implying.

I'm saying that Obama is known for disliking drama and having both Emanuel and Dean on the same team would be dramatic indeed.

[MADem]

89. That, and Dean's unfamiliarity with the legislative process, AND the fact that

he has a long-term relationship with Daschle, likely all played into the decision-making process.

[BlueMTexpat]

135. I am not sure why people keep harping on Dean's *unfamiliarity*

with the legislative process. I'm not referring just to your comment, but to the particular phrase that keeps being repeated by so many ... especially by our brain-dead mainstream talking heads. IMO, it's total BS.

After all, as Governor of Vermont, Dean worked for many years in a bipartisan manner with the Vermont legislature and was very effective in doing so.

So, while Dean may not know the specific so-called "ins and outs" and maneuvering of the DC insider world, it wouldn't take him long to learn them. He learned the DNC ropes so effectively that his policies were the major reasons for Dem victories in 2006 and 2008.

I am not saying that the DSCC, the DCCC and the DLC didn't also play roles in those victories because they did, but their roles concentrated mainly on keeping incumbent Dems in power regardless of whether those incumbent Dems were good for the party or the nation. Dean was the one who attracted "new blood" and progressive candidates to the party ... often to the discomfiture and outright opposition of "insider" Dems ... and he also helped to get Dems elected in every state for local and state offices, which is something that the other national organizations never even thought of doing in any systemic fashion.

But Rahm doesn't like him and Rahm has Barack's ear. I am certainly one of those who does not hold Emanuel fully responsible for Dean's non-selection, however, because the buck stops on Obama's desk.

[MADem]

174. The process is not the same at the state level.

Not even close. It's like saying that playing Tee Ball prepares you to jump right in and start playing for the major leagues. Yes, the Vermont Legislature is a legislative body that passes laws, but so's the local High School student government, for that matter.

The "ins and outs" and "maneuvering" actually ARE the whole game, and they are pretty unique to the Hill. The rules are very arcane and aren't learned in a day or a week or a month or even a year. A pissed off/lobbyist friendly committee chairman--or even a ranking member with a little bipartisan help, can doom a piece of legislation to the dustbin, simply by handing it off to a subcommittee that's guaranteed to sit on it until the session ends. Shit can and often does change massively at mark up, requiring the entire process to begin anew. The entire process is ruled by weighty, obnoxious, often onerous procedure, and procedure can be used to fuck up a piece of legislation and make it disappear. It's a huge drill. It requires ACTIVE and knowledgeable shepherding. Even legislation that HAS to be passed, like budgetary crap, requires "herding."

How many times did Kucinich, et. al., try to impeach Bush or Cheney? How far did that shit fly? Not far at all, and PROCEDURE killed it. He made plenty of dramatic announcements, firing up the clueless, and it all went precisely NOWHERE.

It's ALL about the "ins and outs." It's why a good staffer, working for a well connected legislator, can make a life for him or herself on the Hill, if they know how to help their boss move that paper, and their boss knows how to schmooze to make it flow--or NOT flow, depending. It's why Jesse Helms was able to fuck over William Weld's ambassadorship. It's why proposals from Cynthia McKinney and Kucinich never went anywhere. They didn't have the clout to move the paper.

You can dislike the "insider Dems" all you'd like, and you can try to blame Rahm Emmanuel, but the fact of the matter is that someone who knows how to move paper is needed to hustle legislation through the process and get it to the President's desk. Rahm HAS a job--he doesn't have time to be herding paper for a neophyte--and his expertise is on the HOUSE, not the SENATE side, anyway.

The fact that Obama chose someone who can do that paperwork drill all on his own for the HHS gig tells me he's SERIOUS about crafting some new law in this area. I think that's a good thing, an improvement over what we have now, anyway (and I get my health insurance from the military, so I don't have the dog in this fight that others do who are struggling, but I can empathize). Odds are excellent that people won't get everything they want, and there will be griping.... but it's a beginning. And we have to start somewhere.

[BlueMTexpat]

187. Please realize that I am not so disingenuous to realize that a state legislature

is a more parochial body ... and that the VT legislature, in particular, would not have the same make-up as our national Senate and House.

I believe, however, that some here ... perhaps even you ... are missing the point. It was Howard Dean who re-energized the Democratic party in ways that Dem "insiders" (Emanuel in particular) insisted could not, and even should not, be done. To do that, Dean had to work directly with people at the state level in a way that DNC leadership has never done. What makes you so sure that he is not canny enough to do something similar with our national legislative bodies, especially since we have clear majorities in both? And a lot of the "old" networks, especially those that existed when Daschle was there, are not in place any more.

Please know that I speak as someone who knows quite a lot about the process, having worked for one of the Executive branches of the USG in DC at a senior level for several years. I also have a close relative who was a staffer to two different Senators and is quite involved in the legislative process even now.

Much as I respect Dennis Kucinich's political ideas, I never for once deluded myself that he had the same capacity to work with others in the way that Dean has amply demonstrated that he can do. Imagine Kucinich at the DNC, for example. Bringing others together and working towards a common goal is just not one of K's more visible skills sets, even though he too inspired many.

Since I first wrote, I see that Daschle has withdrawn his nomination and Obama has accepted. If Dean still wants HHS ... and Obama doesn't at least offer it to him now, that would be a very bad move ... especially to those of us who also saw firsthand how Dean inspired so many expatriates, Dems and Repubs alike ... when so many Dems and moderate Repubs (if such srtill exist) were cowed by BushCo. We Dems Abroad are actually a fairly numerous bunch and many of us believe that Howard has demonstrated that he can literally move mountains.

[MADem]

189. Howard Dean is a lightning rod. When he speaks, it's all about Howard.

Now, don't get me wrong--I liked Howard. However, he just isn't "the guy" for Obama. He manages to attract controversy, and he tends to get a little excitable. As a consequence, he's a poor standard bearer for Obama. He is also plainly too far left of Obama's center, and he doesn't stay on message.

I understand that Howard Dean did a lot of work while at DNC, and he helped to reenergize the party. I do get that. I do understand that he took a DNC that was cash rich with a brand new HQ (thanks to Terry McAuliffe) and "grew the party" with his fifty state magic. However, Emmanuel and others like Steny Hoyer in the House and the Senate (Schumer, e.g.) did a lot, too--raising money hand over fist AND choosing candidates that could win--and many of those candidates were too far to the right for the lefties among us, (Webb, e.g.) but they won, didn't they?

Dean didn't do it on his own, and to give him all the credit is just giving him too much credit.

I worked in DOD for years at a senior level. I played that legislation shuffling game, too. I had a rolodex full of COS phone numbers and those guys (occasionally gals) actually took my calls. This is why I know that Dean, even with Daschle's departure, is still a very poor fit for the job. It's a very hard job when the product is boiler-plate, and all that changes are the numbers and the program subcategories. When you're crafting legislation from the ground up, you really have to know what the hell you're doing.

If Dean is chosen for the job, I'd be surprised. It could happen, but I think it's a long shot.

I think Obama will try to find someone with experience in crafting and moving legislation--at least if his goal is to actually move legislation, and not just chit chat about moving it, while letting it endure the brutal back-and-forth and committee stalling that insufficiently shepherded bills endure.

[BlueMTexpat]

196. We'll have to agree to disagree about Howard Dean, I'm afraid.

I've met the man in person and your description doesn't fit what I experienced. It does echo what a lot of detractors say, however, and I doubt whether any facts or logic whatsoever will change their minds.

Since my voting residence is MD (birth state MT with many ties there still, thus the post name here) although my physical residence is on the east side of the Atlantic, I have reason to know Steny Hoyer well. Hoyer, and many of the others whom you name, ARE indeed all about themselves, which is why I ceased contributing to the DSCC, the DCCC and the DLC after 2000. This is not to say that they are not effective in whar they want ... as opposed to what at least some of their constitutents want ... but to use that "quality" as a detracting point against Dean without acknowledging that the others mentioned possess it in full is ironic, to say the least.

There are plenty of others who support those so-called insiders, so they don't need my money to return the same-old-same-old incumbents. And in my first reply I acknowledged that they also played roles in the Senate/House victories (they did nothing to rebuild or create party structures at the state level, however,). Howard Dean himself acknowledged that he could not have done what he did without the infrastructure that McAuliffe set in place. I don't have a link because I was standing about two feet from him when he said it, although I am sure there is probably a link somewhere (although not to that occasion since it was off the record).

I save my own money for those candidates who don't follow the so-called conventional wisdom lockstep, who believe in the US Constitution, and who have the courage to call out Dems and others when they wimp out on adhering to that Constitution.

[MADem]

199. I happen to like Howard too. However, perception IS reality.

Howard IS a lightning rod, even if he doesn't intend to be. He will never 'not' be one. He speaks his mind, which, in a message-tight administration, is "shooting off his mouth."

Now, see, I've met Steny, and spent a LOT of time with him--he's not all about himself. He's a gentle, kind, polite man, who is very thoughtful and very caring. He's smart, too, and he thinks downstream. He's also a workaholic (which is a good thing, I suppose, since his wife died). He cares deeply about the circumstances of his constituents, and he's a very sensitive fellow. He is also a swell mentor to incoming freshmen, and a great candidate coach.

I like Steny a lot. He's got a softer side than he shows in public. And he's profoundly .... humble.

I think there's plenty of credit to go around. No one individual made it work--that's my only point. It was a team effort and everyone pulled together. Plus, the stars aligned in that dissatisfaction directed towards the other team reached a peak this year.

[BlueMTexpat]

201. We can definitely agree on that last.

[defendandprotect]

142. When the DLC is made so prominent in this administration . . .

we have to wonder why their influence is sought and who finally is in charge.

The DLC is a mistake in the party and in the administration!

[MADem]

175. The guy who's guiding the Evil DLC is a fellow named

BARACK OBAMA. So if you don't like those mistakes, you'd better blame the guy in charge.

They aren't influencing HIM...he's telling them how it's done.

This infantalizing of Obama really has to cease. He's the Big Cheese. Not Harold Ford and the minions who "snap to" when Obama tells them which way to tack.

The DLC, sorry to tell you, does OBAMA's bidding--not the other way around. People had best wrap their heads around that fact. Obama is a centrist who leans left in most ways, right in a few, though. He's not an ultra-liberal, fist in the air progressive. He never was. If you read his words, in the speeches he has given over the past few years, that's apparent.

[defendandprotect]

143. Right, Emmanuel's vision is corporate; Dean's isn't . . .

Let's get that clear -- Rahm is DLC and that's poison for the party and for

non-elite taxpayers.

[MADem]

176. Our President is DLC-friendly. We need to accept that and get used to it.

Our President is a deal maker and a triangulator.

This "business as usual" Us-Against-Them shit is out the window. He's said so. I believed him.

He's taking Bill Clinton's triangulation and putting it on steroids. He'll do what he has to do to prosecute his agenda, and he's not going to get all "progressive purist" on us, because he's not a progressive--he's a centrist.

Obama is in charge, and Obama, like it or not, is the touchstone around which the DLC gathers. They take their cues from him.

They're on the same team. He's a "post partisan" kind of guy. Get used to it. It's the way it is.

An interesting article: http://www.thedemocraticstrategist.org/strategist/2009/...

[defendandprotect]

182. We don't need a "corporate-friendly" administration . . .

That's exactly the CHANGE we've been looking for --

No one is going to accept the DLC in the Democratic Party if they understand
that it's intended to co-opt the party and move it to the right.
DLC is Republican-lite.

Nor is there any such thing as a "centrist" except someone fooling themselves.
Trains move in one direction --

If we're not "against" Republicans, then you're either with them or deluding yourself!

In fact, we need progressives to move forward -- and if you're anti-liberal and anti-
progressive isn't that simply a right-wing notion of "us against them" . . . ??

What it actually looks like is that Republicans are still in charge ---
Obama just bent over backwards to give them what they wanted and they dumped him!
Let's not take any more "cues" in that direction!

Meanwhile, unless you're not reading the messages coming thru, the general opinion here
at DU -- and outside of DU -- is that the DLC is destructive to the party and DLC
appointees suck. That's the way it is. Accept it!


We're bailing out corrupt capitalism . . . and it is NOT the way to the future.

[MADem]

188. Excuse me? Have you had a look at Obama's cabinet picks and his WH staff?

It doesn't matter what you or "the messages coming thru, the general opinion here at DU" is. FWIW, DU is not monolithic--we've got all flavors of Democrats here, to include anti-choice, pro-gun, christians, conservatives and even DLC types--and all are welcome.

Here are the facts--Obama's staff is heavily laced with people with a DLC pedigree. They are in positions of power. The DLC mindset is going to be the prevailing one over the next four years. DLC decision-making is going to be the RULE, not the exception.

Get used to that. That IS how it is. If there's any "accepting" happening, that's the reality that needs to be acknowledged.

If you don't like it, well, there's not much you can do about it.

Where are you going to go? To a third party? See ya.

Obama is growing the party by moving rightward and triangulating. He's doing what Clinton did. The left can stay and have a seat at the table, and argue their positions logically and hope to get a fair hearing, or they can play the "purist" game and take their ball and go home, insulting those who choose to stay and deal, because they actually do see the forest for the trees.

There will be no messenger shooting, because that is nonproductive, it doesn't change reality, and I am bulletproof, anyway:

In the 110th Congress, there were 236 Democrats in the U.S. House, 49 in the Senate, and two "Independents" who caucused with Democrats. Of those 287 congresscritters, 74 were members of the New Democratic Coalition, which is affiliated with the DLC. Overall, 25.8% of the Democratic members of the 110th Congress were openly affiliated with the DLC. An additional 31 members of Congress are affiliated with the Blue Dogs, but not with the New Democratic Coalition. If the Blue Dogs are included, the overall DLC-Blue Dog membership in of Democratic congresscritters increases to 36.6%, and 38.1% in the House.

Now, compare this to Obama's cabinet selections. Of the eighteen cabinet members (not counting Joe Biden, who I have seen listed as a cabinet member at times), sixteen are Democrats. Of those sixteen, eight are affiliated with the DLC, or 50%. Obama's Democratic cabinet selections have twice the DLC representation of the Democratic membership of Congress. This list does not include Rahm Emanuel, who will be the first White House Chief of Staff during the Obama administration. Nor does it include national security advisor Jim Jones, who supported McCain during the election.


No Blue Dogs seem to have been selected for the cabinet, but even so the DLC-Blue Dog membership in Obama's cabinet is higher than the DLC-Blue Dog membership of the Democratic caucus in the House or Senate. Adding in the two Republican members, and Obama's cabinet has a Republican-DLC majority. The 55.6% DLC-Republican representation in Obama's cabinet closely mirrors the overall DLC-Republican representation in the Senate (55% in the incoming Senate, plus freshman new NDC members) and House (53.6%, plus freshman NDC members).


The Congressional Progressive Caucus has 69 members in the incoming congress, plus former member Nancy Pelosi (the Speaker resigns from ideological caucuses), plus new membership among freshman. Additionally, three members (Sherrod Brown, Bernie Sanders and Tom Udall) have been elected to the Senate in 2006-2008. Overall, including Nancy Pelosi, 25.4% of the Democratic membership of the House and the Senate in 2007-2008 were Congressional Progressive Caucus members. One member of this group, Hilda Solis, will be in Obama's cabinet. Another member, Xavier Bacerra, was asked to serve as trade representative, but declined.


Obama's cabinet selections, when compared to the Democratic caucuses in the House and the Senate, has a significantly higher representation of DLC members and a significantly lower representation of Progressive Caucus members. If association with the New Democratic and Progressive caucuses can be used as a proxy for ideological inclinations, which voting records have previously suggested it can be, then Obama's cabinet is to the right of the Democratic membership in Congress.

http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=10580

[defendandprotect]

190. Again, no one who understands DLC agenda will support it --

nor "get used to this" nor go along with it ---

Liberals and progressives will walk --

Especially those long fighting for Single Payer Health Care --

And same will be true of liberal/progressive organizations and unions --

Again, Obama needs liberals and progressives to win --

He can be a one term president or he can make progressive changes --


If you want DLC and movement to Republican-lite, you're alone among Democratic voters.

In fact, I would suggest that African-Americans and the Black caucus will soon

be Obama's biggest critics,

We're not even 30 days into this and you can see people are waking up -- to realize

their hopes have been sadly misplaced.

[MADem]

198. Where are the angry "liberals and progressives" going to go?

You don't answer the question.

To the GOP? Unlikely.

To the Greens, where they have no voice at all in a marginalized, vanity party? Also unlikely.

They'll sit where they're at and try to get what they can, which is more than they ever got under Bush....if they aren't stupid. And most of them aren't stupid. The few that are stupid will stomp away and pout, and insist that if they can't have it all their way, they'll have none at all. But they're a minority, and their numbers will be more than made up by the Obama Independents and Republicans who will stroll over to his way of thinking.

He's growing his base, and a few stubborn and angry people who don't get everything the way they want it aren't going to stop him at all, or even slow him down.

Please, when I tell you how things ARE, don't extrapolate them to suggest they're what I want. I simply see the world in living color, and not through the haze of pipe dreams or unrealistic expectations.

[Wetzelbill]

151. right on all counts nt

[ColbertWatcher]

193. If Dean is selected and gets confirmed, it would be in Rahm's best interests to be ...

... professional.

[Lugnut]

3. Good question.

The appointment of Dr Dean would've made much more sense.

[Left Coast2020]

72. Absolutely!

I was thinking the same thing when NPR touched on this tonight. BTW, is this pic of Dean from an early S.F. ralley where he had to use bullhorn so crowd could hear him? I was there if this is the same event. I even have photo of it.


OK..this is an update. I just went to whitehouse.gov and sent a note to President Obama stating Dr. Dean is a better choice. Maybe if some within party started making a public recommendation, it could get his attention.

[Lugnut]

73. I'm still a Deaniac.

Dr Dean has done so much for the country and the Democratic party.

[tavalon]

98. Actually, you aren't the only one and after the 50 state strategy went so well

Dean's Deaniac ratio went up 100 fold.

[defendandprotect]

184. We should be insisting that Howard Dean be part of this administration--!!!

And an important part -- !!!

[David Zephyr]

76. Thanks .

Daschle is a corrosive influence and a source of embarrassment for Obama.

[terisan]

4. but Daschle is the choice of Obama.

[tavalon]

99. Obama, contrary to some internet rumors, is not Jesus, and is therefore not infallable

Daschle=Bad Choice. Obama has stated that he WILL make mistakes and Daschle is proof positive. I'm hoping Obama is more amenable to changing the course, when the course is incorrect. Like Daschle.

[Enthusiast]

102. And Obama can be mistaken. nt

[defendandprotect]

144. I don't think ....

moving into bed with the DLC is merely a "mistake" --

I think the DLC is well understood to be corporate by everyone;

certainly those in politics.

[leftstreet]

5. 4 out of 5 Insurance Companies recommend Daschle n/t

[LSparkle]

10. That's enough for me to hope his tax problems sideline him ... n/t

[dflprincess]

162. Exactly

That's also how we can judge whether or not any proposed health insurance reform is good for the people. If the insurance companies are quiet then it's probably bad for us; if they start screaming, the plan is probably a good one.

[mnhtnbb]

42. Precisely why he's the wrong choice.

[FLAprogressive]

55. delete

[liberalpragmatist]

6. The issue is that Dean has no experience getting legislation through Congress

I'm not saying Daschle should stay - my own feeling is he should step down. But he *IS* an expert on health care issues and has existing relationships with Congress and the Senate that would be extraordinarily helpful in getting a universal health care bill passed. Which is why most health care wonks and health policy people (see Ezra Klein and Jon Cohn for example) were ecstatic about Daschle's nomination.

Dean's certainly a smart, capable guy. But the issue with him as health czar or as HHS Secretary is that he doesn't have the kinds of network or experience working with Congress. He could be fine as a simple HHS Secretary, but the role Daschle was planning to take was a dual role as health czar AND health secretary.

If Daschle does step down, I would hope Obama could find someone else with the type of experience needed to get things through Congress.

(A separate issue - some have railed against Daschle for not pushing single-payer. For the record, Howard Dean doesn't push single-payer either and getting to single-payer in one fell swoop is extremely unlikely.

What is possible is that the optional public plan that is in the Obama plan - as well as the Baucus plan and the Kennedy plan and was in Edwards' and Hillary's plans - will end up becoming a de facto single-payer system because by negotiating prices down, it will over time incentivize the movement of people from the private insurance market towards the public plan. If the vast majority of Americans are in the public plan, that will become the default option for most Americans, with those who prefer a private plan being able to opt out.)

[David Zephyr]

7. Nonsense. As Governor he pushed his legislation through the state house in Vermont.

So "getting legislation" through a legislative body is one of Governor (and Doctor) Dean's strong points.

[liberalpragmatist]

12. Vermont Legislature does not equal Congress

Like I said, I think Daschle should step down. I also think Dean would be a great pick for other positions. He'd also be a good standalone HHS Secretary.

But the person you want pushing legislation through Congress needs to be someone who knows and has existing relationships with Congress.

The idea that state legislatures are exactly like Congress is exactly why people like Carter and Clinton had so much trouble with Congress early in their terms -- they believed they could push Congress around the way their state legislatures worked and they got clobbered.

[cascadiance]

17. Well in that case if not Health and Human Services, then at LEAST Surgeon General...

Conyers is already throwing up his hands at the pick of Sanjay Gupta, who he feels should be withdrawn. I think Dean would be a far better pick there too.

[liberalpragmatist]

22. Dean would be a good Surgeon General

and as I said, if the "health care czar" position is separated from the HHS Secretary position, then Dean would be a good fit for HHS. I just don't think Dean has the relationships to get UHC through Congress.

[alfredo]

45. Are you sure he has already picked him?

[MADem]

85. That job's taken by Sanjay. nt

[NashVegas]

30. True. Way Less Ego

[David Zephyr]

50. Errr...That would be the same Howard Dean that helped elect and re-elect a Dem majority in Congress.

But you want to argue and that's cool.

But don't suggest that Howard Dean would be less effective at getting legislation through the Congress than Obama's other Cabinet appointees. There's a well of gratitude among Democrats in the House and Senate for Howard's help in 2006 and again in 2008.

[PassingFair]

57. Daschle's experience as a "pusher of legislation" in Congress was a FAILURE.

He wimped out in EVERY CATEGORY except
Supreme Court Justices, which he was
unable to influence anyway.

He and Dick Gephardt can KISS MY ASS.

Their involvement in the IWR ALONE
is enough to keep them in the boonies
of their respective states.

[David Zephyr]

58. Amen. And the only legislation he "pushed" was reactionary rightwing.

Tom Dascle flew back to D.C. so he could vote for the GOP's so-called "partial birth abortion" bill that ommitted the life of the mother as an exception.

He and his wife sold their souls eons ago.

He is an embarrassment to Obama and I think it will get worse the longer he fights to stay on.

[Bluenorthwest]

111. we have a President who knows the Hill very well

And Dean is not an unknown entity. I simply do not accept that all jobs that deal with Congress must be filled from the ranks of Congress. In fact, I think that is one of the core problems, this closed system. Those who are in Congress now, or have been in the last 8 years have failed. Look around you. Daschle is part of the failure and knows the others who contributed to the failure very well. Great. That means we can expect more of the same, which is failure, loss, and downward sprial.
Time for new faces. Those old Congressional ties you love so much are hindering us, not helping. Daschele's 'experience' just means he already knows how to fail. Having an existing relationship with Congress means 'lives in the same pocket as Congress'. To hell with that.

[babythunder]

195. Amen to this!

Daschle failed to get major Democratic legislation passed so I cannot imagine him having been able to get anything remotely close to Universal Health Care Passed.

[BlueMTexpat]

138. Perhaps not, but there are certainly relevant similarities.

And frankly, Daschle wasn't all that effective when he was IN Congress, IMO. Besides, the political landscape in DC has shifted considerably since he was there. Unless you are referring to the networks and relationships that Daschle has built up and maintained as a lobbyist ... aren't those exactly what we DON'T want or need?

Dean was the best first choice. If he would still take it, he would be the best second choice.

[defendandprotect]

155. What we need is the public pushing Congress . . . not lobbyists . . .

which is where the influence and money is now --

Howard Dean could certainly move legislation if George Bush could!!!

And if Congress is thinking the right way on Single Payer Health Care---!!

[biopowertoday]

16. SO? the HHS is not the congress.

[liberalpragmatist]

20. The issue is Daschle has a dual role

You're right that running HHS alone is something Dean would be more than qualified for.

But Daschle's role is more than that - he's to be both HHS Secretary and health care czar in charge of the administration's universal health care initiative and tasked with getting it through Congress.

Dean probably doesn't have the connections or relationships with Congress necessary to do that job as effectively.

[glinda]

75. I wish they would drop this "Czar" thing. Are we Russia?

[The Wizard]

115. How about Feurher (NT)

[customerserviceguy]

28. Howard Dean's leadership of the Democratic Party

should overcome any "legislative experience" objection to him. Under his leadership, our majorities in both houses of Congress swelled. Can any Democratic congresscritter, from the far left to the blue dog not be aware of this?

[defendandprotect]

148. misplaced ---

[snot]

40. Dean got some new Dems elected--that shd count as some kind of relationship at least to them.

[liberalpragmatist]

46. That's true - nt

[davidinalameda]

81. he got one elected in particular

he was watching the Super Bowl at his new home-the White House!

Dean's 50 state strategy was responsible for Obama winning Virginia, Indiana, North Carolina, Florida, Nevada, etc

and coming damn close in other states that have always been red

[defendandprotect]

149. I think even more --- he moved red states into the blue . . . !!!

[havocmom]

60. Daschle's record on that one is nothing to crow about

Spineless is not leadership

[David Zephyr]

63. How true.

We remember Tom well, don't we?

[tavalon]

100. Dean is a very smart man

Give him a two week crash course and he'll do fine. Last I checked, the guy sitting in the Oval Office had zero executive experience but he's been doing swimmingly. The no experience meme is a non-starter.

Dean is far more likely to listen to the masses than Daschle. I remember Daschle. He wasn't easy to get a hold of and he was very, very spineless. With our new crew of spineless leaders (Reid,Pelosi), it's hard to remember that there were spineless, non-responsive Democratic leaders before these ones.

[iamthebandfanman]

139. sounds like good ole boy talk to me

only wanting others from congress...
sounds like buddy buddy slap on ass 'youre mah boy' play afoot to me.

i thought we voted against the same ole same ole being in charge of things? i thought we voted against the same ole same ole washington?

dont get me wrong, im very pleased with some of the things happening ...

but this is a huge shame and should be shameful to anyone who was in the position of giving Dr Dean a role in the administration. sounds like others(not obama) had grudges with the good doctor from 2004 and they cant get over it. typical same ole washington behavoir.

[defendandprotect]

153. That's nonsense -- Reid has "experience" . . Pelosi has "experience" . . .

Daschle had "experience" -- and what did they do? Nothing!!!

Howard Dean has the kind of intelligence and experience -- and courage -- that

this country needs and Obama needs.

[tritsofme]

8. President Obama made his decision. Period. End of the "argument".

[tavalon]

101. So, from that, I assume we can count you out from the

group who intends to hold Obama to the right path? He is not God. He makes mistakes. This is just the first of many.

[Ticonderoga]

140. Flame away

If you care to, but in my opinion nominating HRC to Secretary of State was his first huge mistake. The jury's still out on Rahm, but I'm less than optimistic that Rahm will ever be convinced that he serves at the "pleasure" of the President.

[defendandprotect]

152. Speak for yourself . . .

if you wish to follow blindly.

Most of us will do what the Constituion intends us to do ---

challenge and question all authority!

[dflprincess]

163. That sounds like the kind of crap that came out of the Bush administration

Rahm might agree with that attitude, but I'm inclined to think the president does not as he has already admitted he won't be right all the time.

[tritsofme]

177. Sounds like I changed one word from the OP's opening paragraph.

Do only those who oppose the President get to speak in absolutes?

[RB TexLa]

9. Because not everyone believes in some God like notion of Howie Dean.

I know, I know ... Barack Obama should have done the right thing and killed himself leaving a note asking Biden to appoint Dean V-P and to then resign as Dean could be the only man to ever deserve to be president.

[David Zephyr]

51. The fact is that Tom Dashle was deceitful with Obama about his income sources.

Your loyalty to Barack Obama might be better served worrying about the fact that this man, Tom Daschle was a active lobbyist without registering to be a lobbyist (dishonest) and who essentially lied to Obama about his income soureces (dishonest) and now has embarrassed him in a very big way.

[defendandprotect]

154. ...and now says this was merely a "mistake" . . . !!!

I think for most Americans a mistake like that would mean criminal charges.

And I think it would be justified in this case.

[nichomachus]

11. Silly question

We're only "reaching out" to Republicans, bigots, and homophobes on this pass. Solid Dems, liberals, and gays can go fuck themselves.

[Taverner]

13. Dean v Rahm Emmanuel

While Dean was winning the Presidency for Obama, Emanuel was winning his war against Dean

[cascadiance]

18. In what way? Certainly not through popular support...

If this government is for the people, then Dean should be the "winner" of whatever battle with Emmanuel.

[Taverner]

26. Alas, it was but a battle of egos

I love Dean, and credit him with winning 06 and 08. But the man does have an ego - you have to in politics.

Unfortunately Rahm has one too - and in a battle of egos, Rahm won.

It had nothing to do with skill, intelligence even politics. Sadly it was that all too classic struggle of egos within a power vacuum.

[JaneQPublic]

34. Didn't Rahm butt heads with Dr. Dean in the 2006 election?

Dean was implementing his 50-State Strategy during that election, while Rahm (who I believe was head of the DCCC at the time) was outraged that Dean wasn't following the old method, which was to pour all DNC funds into a few select races that had the best chance of winning.

Rumor has it the two had a big knock-down drag-out over it. Then when the 2006 proved to be a big winner for the Dems, Dean was given zero credit by folks like Emannuel. In fact, Rahm's buddy James Carville famously blamed Dean because Dems didn't win by an even bigger margin, blasting Dean as being "Rumsfeldian" in his incompetence.

So, my guess is that if Obama had any initial inclinations to include Dean in his cabinet, Emmanuel voiced his very strong displeasure with that prospect.

[Taverner]

35. Exactly

Battle of egos

And Like I said, Rahm's was bigger

[cascadiance]

41. But Obama's should be the BIGGEST and wisest ego. That's why we elected him!

He should have told Emmanuel that he serves at the pleasure of the president, and that if Obama feels that Dean is needed, Emmanuel should deal with it. That's why either Obama should take responsibility in explaining why Dean isn't a part of his administration, or make better effort to do so. He can't be doing this just to make folks like Rahm happy. That's not his job.

[Taverner]

44. Shoulda Woulda Coulda

That's what should be the case, but isn't - Personally I think Dean got the shaft

But politics is often a contact sport

[blm]

14. No way is Daschle the mirror to Gramm. You GROSSLY UNDERESTIMATE what Gramm has done to harm

this nation and the world = you TRIVIALIZE what Gramm has done - - - if you compared Lieberman to Gramm it would still trivialize what Gramm has done over the decades.

Attack Daschle with what he has done, but, saying he's a mirror of Gramm is like saying a driver in an accidental car crash is the mirror of Ted Bundy.

[David Zephyr]

54. No underestimation of Gramm's treachery at all. I think you underestimate Daschle's.

I think I have more posts at the DU about Wendy and Phil Gramm than probably anyone else. My awareness of that slimebag couple is decades old and preceeds this blog.

You are correct in this: there is a notable distinction between the Gramms and the Daschles. The Gramms have always proudly boasted that they were corporate and defense contractor toadies. After all, they are Republicans. The Daschles, on the other hand, were supposed to have been Democrats and acted like they were. The Gramms have the integrity of being honest in their loyalites while the Daschles can not say even that.

Tom and Linda's little $20 Billion Airline Bailout in 2001 after which those CEO's laid off tens of thousands of workers, cut airline perks, cut airline routes and gave themselves millions in bonuses is just one chapter of the Linda and Tom tag team that betrayed our Party over and again.

Now Tom, who worked as a lobbyist for healthcare execs -- without registering as a lobbyist -- has embarrassed Barack Obama because he was deceitful and misled Obama and his team about his income sources.

Daschle and his wife are both pond scum.

[Metta]

19. Because Rahm Emmanuel is petty, small minded and small hearted. Wake up, karma boy.

The country suffers because you had a bad day.

[depakid]

66. I give him less than 18 months before he screws up and causes trouble for Obama

sooner or later, guys like Rahm always do.

[Metta]

67. I wouldn't be surprised. He doesn't particularly like boundaries.

shmuck.

[defendandprotect]

156. Emmanuel aslso has high interests in ...

Israel situation -- on the AIPAC side .. as far as I can see --

DLC and AIPAC -- not good-!!!

[Metta]

179. really.

[defendandprotect]

180. Not unlike Chertoff . . . hopefully we going to do something about ...

the "Patriot Act" soon ---

and the Hitler like "Homeland Security" --- !!!!

[Metta]

185. I agree. Bush has turned our country into a militarized, police state.

Let's see if the Dems have the "courage" and patriotism to take it back.

[defendandprotect]

192. Poppy Bush made DC look like a capital under siege ....

whether he was actually that paranoid or just introducing fear for benefit of

public, not sure --

Or, he might have been remembering JFK coup -- and his role in it.

[defendandprotect]

146. Not sure about that . . .

because the GOP likes Emmanuel -- no complaints there!

On the other hand, if Obama actually put someone ready to work on health care --

especially Single Payer in the spot -- the Republicans would be doing their

"Russians are coming! The Russians are coming!" theatrics.

And, personally, I'd love to see it--!!! Howard Dean for HHS -- !!!

[Radical Activist]

21. To piss off his cult following.

Universal health care is a top priority and Obama chose a former top Congressional leader to guide it through Congress instead of someone Congressional Republicans and same Democrats hate. Pretty obvious and smart choice.

[nichomachus]

23. Yeah -- getting Congressional majorities for the party tends to create a cult

Of course, we expect the Obama cult members to be jealous the Dean cult members -- esp when Dean has more successes under his belt than Obama so far.

[Radical Activist]

25. heh

Liking a Democratic leader is fine. It becomes a cult when someones fan cheering becomes disconnected from reality.
Obama won the primary, won the general election, and ushered in a large majority in Congress. And he did it while bringing the DNC directly under his campaign's control once the primary was over. Claiming Dean has more success than Obama is just bizarre. How did Dean's Presidency go?

[David Zephyr]

62. "Claiming Dean has more success than Obama is just bizarre." No one made that claim.

Here's what is "bizarre": You making up shit like your statement that someone within this thread was "claiming Dean had more success than Obama" and then your proceeding in arguing with your own statement. That's bizarre.

No one made that assertion. You shouldn't be so frivilous with language to make your point.

Using straw arguments at the DU to make one's point is not a good idea. I'm sure you mean well and your adoration of Obama is noted.

However, in your blind loyalty to Obama, you might consider how Daschle's clear deceit to Obama regarding his income sources has now become a sideshow and embarrassed our new President.

Tom Daschle is a drag on Obama's administration and he and his wife have both had dishonorable careers that sully our Party and our President.

[Radical Activist]

69. Read post 23

"esp when Dean has more successes under his belt than Obama so far."

[David Zephyr]

70. You are right.

Mea culpa.

I am not a "cultist" and not a joiner either. I am a lifelong "radical activist" and I've even visited Che's home in Rosario and his place of death in Bolivia, too.

That said, Howard Dean should have been Obama's first choice and politics aside, he would make a great Secretary in Obama's cabinet. I doubt that Daschle will survive the week as more shit begins to fester out. Obama doesn't need this shit. Rahm should not be so thin skinned. We don't need another Halderman.

[cascadiance]

24. Sanjay Gupta as Surgeon General calls into question this logic though...

Sign Conyers' petition to replace Gupta, and if Dean isn't the person for Health and Human Services, I certainly feel he'd be a better champion for Universal Health Care than Gupta would be...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[Hippo_Tron]

90. Surgeon General is 3 or 4 levels below Dean's pay grade

I would imagine he wasn't even remotely interested in the job.

[Enthusiast]

103. Signed it. Gupta is a hack. nt

[Ticonderoga]

136. I reluctantly signed.

I say reluctantly only because John Conyers has been a dissapointment throughout the bu$h years. Talk tough and capitulate the moment he faces tough opposition. I don't know how many of his dog and pony shows I've participated in but more than I care to.

[MADem]

86. Stop making sense....! nt

[LWolf]

178. I haven't seen anything universal about health care in Obama's plan.

Since you bring it up.

I find the "experience" argument amusing, since we just elected