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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:10 PM
Original message
From Daily Kos and Open Left....RIP 50 State Strategy.
Edited on Wed Jan-21-09 01:28 PM by madfloridian
Heading back to more of the swing state strategy, which we used to call the 18 state strategy. Also bringing to an end the decentralization which our outgoing chairman felt would make the party more open to all.

From Open Left:

DNC Strategy Update

1. Increasing Centralization: The shift in resources away from paid media and toward on the ground organizers will continue. However, these resources will be more directly controlled by the DNC itself, rather than by state parties. In other words, the SPP program where the DNC pays for organizers chosen by the state parties themselves is, as previously reported, done. Instead, the DNC will likely hire and assign organizers themselves. State party grants will also likely be transformed into more centrally directed expenditures by the DNC.

2. More swing state, less fifty-state: Many, if not most, states will have more resources spent on them during the next four years than during the previous four years. In addition to increasingly centralized control over how these resources are spent, there will also be a return to a swing-state focus for 2012. However, it is important to keep in mind that the Obama campaign's version of a swing state strategy was broader than either the Gore or Kerry incarnations.

In short, the DNC will be moving away from the long-term, decentralized, fifty-state strategy of Howard Dean's tenure, and toward serving as a short-term, centralized re-election effort for President Obama in 2012. It will continue the move away from paid media ushered in by Howard Dean, maintain or increase the amount of resource expenditures in most states, and the number of states it targets will be a broader effort than the narrow focus we saw in 2001-2004 (but more narrow than 2005-2008). However, it will return to the traditional role of the DNC as a supplement for the sitting President's re-election campaign, rather than as the long-term, localized institution building operation that is was from 2005-2008.

The fifty-state strategy of 2005-2008 is going to be replaced with the "re-elect President Obama" strategy of 2009-2012.


That's fine with me now. We are moving on from being so involved.

Markos adds to Open Left's post and is pretty outspoken.

RIP 50-state strategy

...the DC Democratic establishment will like this. They hated losing control of that cash and letting the states decide for themselves how to best spend it. This is a return to how the party has traditionally operated. Idaho, which implausibly elected a member to the House in an R+18.9 district -- the most Republican district held by a Democrat today and the 14th most Republican district in the entire country -- would likely get passed over using a more traditional resource allocation model.

..."Howard Dean was a rare political creature -- a person who embraced decentralization. The new crew in power is far more conventional, resorting to an old-school centralized power structure. Democrats have the White House, and perhaps it's understandable that they want to take a proven model (the Obama campaign) and begin building what will eventually morph into Obama's reelection campaign. But given the size of Obama's list and his fundraising prowess, it shouldn't have to be an either-or proposition.

Update: I wrote this as a comment in the threads, but it's a succinct summary of this post, so I'll paraphrase it here:

The reason that there's an inherent conflict with turning the DNC into Obama's 2012 reelection effort is that there's no reason for the Obama operation to have staffers in Utah. But there's a reason for the Democratic Party to have staffers in Utah -- helping Democrats get elected to important local- and state-level offices and building a bench for federal offices.

If Obama's DNC wants to staff up in battleground states, then great. But the rest of the states shouldn't be discarded. We've been down that road before, and it wasn't pretty.


The power is back where it was.

Now the purse strings are firmly back in DC.

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Veritas_et_Aequitas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. That's ok. I was getting tired of thinking I could help out tangibly.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yep, we are saving a lot of money monthly now.
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Ex Lurker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
94. This is a coastal/urban party. Deal with it. n/t
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. That sucks
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. Message to Texas Democrats: YOU'RE ON YOUR OWN
How tragic. They've written off Texas in the 2010 mid-terms and the 2012 Presidential race.

Fine. We'll simply have to muscle our way into the power structure ourselves and show them exactly what they're missing.
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Kalyke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Message to Tennessee Democrats:
You'll never win another thing in this state, now.
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waiting for hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
19. Same could be said to Arizona -
They are getting ready to pass a ban on partial-birth abortions -


Breaking News
Lawmakers mull bill to ban partial-birth abortion
Vetoed twice by Napolitano, measure might find favor with Brewer

On the same day a pro-life Republican governor is set to be sworn in, Arizona lawmakers will consider a measure vetoed twice last year that bans partial-birth abortions with the expectation that the change on the Ninth Floor will result in a different fate for the bill.

"I'm sure (it will be signed)," said Rep. Nancy Barto, a Phoenix Republican and the sponsor of H2400. "Governor-designate (Jan) Brewer is pro-life, and she understands the horrendous nature of partial-birth abortion."

Gov. Janet Napolitano, who is expected to be confirmed today (Jan. 20) by the U.S. Senate to head the Department of Homeland Security and resign as governor, vetoed two bills banning the type of abortions in question, also known as a late-term abortion. Napolitano cited an unnecessary duplication of federal law as the reason for her vetoes.

Although there is a federal ban on the procedure, it is not enforceable at the state level, Barto said, because federal enforcement is limited to abortions that affect interstate commerce. Essentially, unless a person travels from one state to another to receive a partial-birth abortion, the federal government does not have jurisdiction.The language in her bill is "a mirror image" of the federal ban, she said.The bill will be heard in the House Commerce Committee, which meets tomorrow at 9 a.m. in House Hearing Room 4.


Looks like the Republicans in AZ are going to be dancing with glee - wonder what they will pass next?
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #4
27. Not true
Gov Tim Kaine Answers Your Questions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvNexaOg9DE&eurl=http://...

Answers a Texan's question about 50 state strategy, begins around 11:25

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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #27
60. that excerpt
"Well, Melissa is right, the 50 state strategy is really important going forward, and to Melissa says you know out here in the red states, that's where we were in Virginia, you know when I ran for governor in 2005 it was Howard Dean's first year as chairman of the DNC, and the preceding chairman Terry McAuliffe, made a pledge, but then Howard Dean can in and met that pledge and supported me in a more than major way in my race, even though I was an underdog, down in the polls, Virginia's kinda traditionally Republican, but he knew this was a state worth investing in, and since that race, we've not just win the governorship, we've gone from two Republican Senators to two Democratic Senators." He goes in to talk about other gains in Virginia.

Talking about "a state worth investing in" is obviously the opposite of the 50 state strategy.

Glad you posted this. Listening to Kaine I now think that the fears of madfloridian and others are legitimate.

I think he is trying to soften the blow. He most certainly is not endorsing the 50 state strategy. He is unwilling to criticize it - that would not be smart politically. But his focus is on moving to something different. He says we won't be writing any states off, but that could well be just reassuring fluff.


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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. You do have problems understanding what you hear.
Sad for you - madfloridian and the bloggers are wrong.

As of today (see the website and listen to the full video) the 50-strategy is still the strategy that the DNC holds - your distortions don't change that.



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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #61
67. not so clear cut
What he said could be interpreted as keeping the 50 state strategy. It could also be interpreted as a move way from it.

You may not agree with madfloridian, but I think her interpretation is legitimate and not without merit.

What Kaine said sure sounded like "damning with faint praise" to me.

No need for hostility - I am not making "distortions."

Why do you care anyway? What is at risk? Those who are worried about an abandonment of the 50 state strategy aren't hurting anything by expressing their point of view about it.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #67
80. such nonsense
Edited on Wed Jan-21-09 03:27 PM by merh
The facts are clear - the 50 state strategy remains on the DNC website

Kaine praises Dean and said they intend to continue with the strategy, improving as they see the need.

The KOS diary that madfloridian sites even questions the legitimacy of the the other bloggers information and interpretation.

Kaine is clear throughout the video.

There is not the fear of abandonment, as you suggest, there is the certainty of abandonment as you distort and wrongly support. Yes, you distort.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #80
84. calling it nonsense is no argument
Your interpretation may be correct. Start a post about your point of view. I will disagree, perhaps, but I won't tell you it is nonsense just because I disagree with it. I do not think you have made the case that what I, nor mf, are saying is nonsense.

we can't know yet what is going to happen. Perhaps madfloridian will be wrong. I am sure she would be happy were she wrong. But you are saying that her point of view is not worth considering. I don't agree.

Make your case and let the readers decide for themselves. Madfloridian has every right to make her case without you calling for it to be dismissed out of hand by insinuating various things about her, and now about me.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #84
85. It is nonsense when it isn't backed up with the facts
Kaine is clear as is the DNC webpage which has the 50-state strategy outlined as a key part of their goal and efforts.

I've made my case in this thread, that is what this board is about - exchange of ideas and challenging misconceptions and distortions.

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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #85
91. those aren't "facts"
Statements by politicians are "facts?"

You may be right. The party may keep the 50 state strategy. Or it may not.

You have made the case that it is possible that the party will keep the 50 state strategy. You have not made the case that the party will not dump the 50 state strategy, and there is a legitimate argument that this may happen.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #91
93. Yes, I've made the argument and backed it up with facts.
Your lectures are boring.
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Skwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #60
137. He gave the real credit to McAuliffe, the Clinton hack. That speaks volumes.
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
5. Snatching future defeats from the jaws of future victories.
So much for the involvement of the netroots, too. Dems better start kissing more corporate ass (or, apparently, they WANT to kiss more corporate ass).

Sigh.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #5
124. We will see how this develops and I hope I'm wrong, but look for the corporate
oligarchy to reassert it's control and yield the same results we suffered from 1972 through 2008. Abject failure to act on behalf of the people and general, systemic incompetence. A parade of DINOs wielding power and sullying the party in the eyes of the sheeple.

2010 will give us the answer.


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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #124
125. On the bright side, I will save some moolah then...
STUPID
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #124
131. Just because the corporate interests
hand out money doesn't mean the wield the influence they once did. The Internet changed everything.
If we see that we're being swept under the proverbial rug, the forces that put them in power will remove them. We're holding several trump cards. How we use them is what will determine the direction of the Democratic Party.
We have the power. Where did I hear that before?
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #131
142. Indeed.
This and the previous actions taken, appointments and the like, show that the danger has not passed.

We do, collectively, have the power. The question is whether we will use it or sink into complacency. The parasites are betting on the latter and they bet with the house (they usually own it).

The next two years will be very interesting.


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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
6. Yeah, its not like those votes in Indiana, Ohio or Pennsylvania helped or anything
:eyes:
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
7. Would you happen to have a link to the DNC source that
these two writer's used to support their conclusions?

This statement alone in the KOS diary page leads me to doubt the accuracy of the conclusions -

Assuming Bowers' source is correct, the DC Democratic establishment will like this ...

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. May I say that Chris has good sources in the DNC...at least for now.
You can believe it or not believe it.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. So, in other words
You have nothing to back up the conclusions. Even the KOS diary using "Chris'" comments to support his writing gives a disclaimer - that is that the information could be wrong.

Doesn't surprise me, you like to spread rumors and dissent. The whisper games you play are just that games.

I don't think anything can make you happy and that is indeed sad.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. So you think two major bloggers and me are just making stuff up?
Sorry you feel that way.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. I know that the one blogger has stated specifically
Assuming Bowers' source is correct,

that tells me he isn't certain - you would be wise to use such disclaimers

let me know when the DNC actually states this as their policy.

Until then, I will rely on what Kaine has said.

Gov Tim Kaine Answers Your Questions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvNexaOg9DE&eurl=http://...

And I will rely on the fact that the 50-state strategy is still found on the DNC's webpage, with a section all of it's own
http://www.democrats.org/a/party/a_50_state_strategy /
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Shiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Yeah, I'd like to see some proof on this
As from everything I'd heard, it was the exact opposite to what these posts claim.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. How about Tim Kaine's own words....
"In response to both questions Kaine talks about all the ways that Virginia has gone from red to blue over the last few years and gives credit to Dean for this. I see it more as going from reddish-purple to bluish-purple but okay. He says the 50-state strategy was "really important." Good. He says "Its success speaks for itself." Yes.

But in both answers he says they won't being doing exactly what they did during the last 4 years. Kaine: "You never should just do what you did yesterday" and "We may do it in different ways." More specifically, Virginia is not, say, Idaho and therefore: "I won't say it should apply equally in every state." But we will continue it in "new and exciting ways."

So, bottom line: it was really important and successful and we'll be doing something that we'll call a 50-state strategy but it won't look like it did before. Because "you never should just do what you did yesterday" even if what you did yesterday worked really well.


http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=10962
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Shiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. That doesn't say the Fifty-State Strategy
Is being abandoned. Sounds more like he's talking about honing it, figuring out the best way to make it work in each state.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Figuring out how to make it work? It did work.
We need it in each state for downticket races, not just for Obama.
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Shiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Apologies
Edited on Wed Jan-21-09 01:45 PM by Shiver
That should have said "work better". It does work very well as is, but there is always room to improve.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Check out Kaine's video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvNexaOg9DE&eurl=http://...

Around 8:30 into the video, Kaine says what a great job Dean did, he boasts on his work.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. Kaine said they would change it...his own words
It is going to be modified...especially now with Wasserman Schultz as vice chair.

"In response to both questions Kaine talks about all the ways that Virginia has gone from red to blue over the last few years and gives credit to Dean for this. I see it more as going from reddish-purple to bluish-purple but okay. He says the 50-state strategy was "really important." Good. He says "Its success speaks for itself." Yes.

But in both answers he says they won't being doing exactly what they did during the last 4 years.

Kaine: "You never should just do what you did yesterday" and "We may do it in different ways." More specifically, Virginia is not, say, Idaho and therefore: "I won't say it should apply equally in every state." But we will continue it in "new and exciting ways."



http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=10962

Kaine said they will do what they did only differently. TPTB won out....the power is not going to be decentralized anymore.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Stop quoting someone's blog
that takes snippets of what he says

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvNexaOg9DE&eurl=http://...

He said he will improve upon it, as they should do, they will use it and continue to improve upon it - that is a good thing.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #30
36. No, because that is what he said.
That we should not do what we did before.

Hey, I don't care if they do go back to the earlier ways. We are saving energy and money the last couple of months.

I was a damn fool to think all my donations mattered.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. That was only part of what he said.
Watch the video and LISTEN TO HIM.

He praises Dean and said it was Dean's successes and the 50 state strategy that they will maintain and build upon, that it was effective and that they will not just sit on their laurels but will continue to evolve.

As to how you classify yourself, I won't dispute that, not because of your donations but because of your willingness to believe the worse and to discover for yourself the truth.

Watch his video, listen and learn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvNexaOg9DE&eurl=http://...
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. I heard it several times already.
They are going to change it, and maybe it is for the best.

We were all a little foolish to think we could beat the money machine.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. You really need to take a break
To improve upon things, to use what has worked and to make improvements is not a change that plays into the hands of the money machine as you allude. Kaine praises Dean and says that they will use his successful efforts and will improve upon them. That is not a bad thing. Staying stagnant and being a pessimist is.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. Wrong on several counts.
The power is shifting back to DC, and actually I am relieved. It will take some of the passion, but it will help our finances immeasurably.

Gee, I am doing a bad job of meeting the standards of everyone here lately, and I sure do hear about it.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #47
51. You are the one that is wrong, guess you just want to find
boggie men in every corner and refuse to acknowledge the facts and the truth.

Shame for you, but then again, I think you enjoy being angry.

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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #51
68. personal insults
Edited on Wed Jan-21-09 03:00 PM by Two Americas
Resorting to personal insults betrays weakness. Make your point without smearing your opponent, if you can.

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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #68
82. You might want to take your own advice.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #82
83. how so?
What are you objecting to in what I said?
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #83
86. you judge my posting style rather than deal with the issues
judgments of the sort are understandable, just don't pretend some greatness when you show your human side
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #86
92. not at all
Use whatever style you like. I objected to the personal insults.

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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #92
96. You have directed your posts to me and my style while avoiding
the substance of the discussion and the facts pertaining to the discussion. That is the same as personal insults, lecturing how to post and debate as if you know it all and are perfect.

Stick to the issues and for once, actually back up your nonsense with some link beyond gossip and rumors. Or, you can just go away and lecture others in some other thread.

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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #96
98. here is what you said
"you just want to find boggie men in every corner and refuse to acknowledge the facts and the truth."

"Shame for you, but then again, I think you enjoy being angry."

I objected to that.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #98
99. I'm well aware of my posts.
Unlike you, I do take the time to read.

You are now dodging the issues to continue your attacks on me and your judgments - you aren't perfect, stop pretending you are.

You have been proven wrong as has the OP, go away.

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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #99
100. lol
Yes! I am perfect!

I think you have made the point that the party may keep the 50 state strategy. I think mf has made the point that they may not.

I am not attacking you, I defended mf and myself from your attacks.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #100
103. no, you have tried to derail the subject of the thread while
attacking me and ignoring the facts.

Shall I spell it out for you, yet again?

Kaine: Dems will court all 50 states now and forever
By Michael O'Brien
Posted: 01/21/09 03:12 PM

Virginia Gov. Tim Kaine, installed Wednesday as the new chairman of the Democratic National Committee (DNC), vowed to aggressively campaign in all 50 states and promised to rely on ideas and not ideology.

The 50-state strategy is now and forever what Democrats do
, Kaine told DNC members at the partys winter meeting in Washington, D.C. The plan to seek to compete in all states was put in place by Kaines successor, Howard Dean.


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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #103
107. just a sub-thread
Edited on Wed Jan-21-09 05:28 PM by Two Americas
I hope you are right, and I hope that the evidence you are providing means that the party will in fact not jettison the 50 state strategy. We shall see.

I also think that mf has a case. What's the problem?
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #107
109. The problem is, mf has no case.
The KOS diary she used even posts a disclaimer "if true" - the other blogger posts nothing more than rumor and worry, nothing at all to back up his position and concerns.

The DNC website was available for mf, just like it was for me. She could have gone to it, watched the video and had her fears put to rest. She didn't because she prefers to post of gloom and doom.

The crap, like your lectures, is tiresome. If she doesn't want to be debated and proven to be wrong then she needs to set up her own blog and post her unsubstianted rumors that have not support or reason.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #109
111. MF did all that. I prefer the inside sources for now.
Kaine said he would do it in a changed form. I don't care how he does it, but it won't be my money this time.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #111
116. who cares
you think you can buy the influence and party you want, when you don't get it, you fuss and complain.

keep your money and hold your breath and stomp your feet and throw yourself on the floor, who cares
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #109
112. from your evidence
Just from the evidence you provided, I have some doubt that the party will be committed to the 50 state strategy. Kaine's remarks about the 50 state strategy are at best lukewarm and conditional.

Merely saying over and over again "she is wrong" does not make it so.

Had she said "Kaine never praised Dean" or "Kaine never said that the 50 state strategy would be kept" or "the official party line is to not keep the 50 state strategy" then you would be correct. But she didn't.

I am suspicious that the party may dump the 50 state strategy, regardless of what officials are now saying. It would not surprise me. I am not saying that they will for sure, and you may turn out to be right.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #112
115. You don't care about the party
And you don't care about the truth -

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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #115
119. no worries
I know you see me as the enemy. No hard feelings or burned bridges, I hope.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #119
120. I'd have to care about you to have any feelings for you
you are pixels on a screen and nothing more
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 05:43 AM
Response to Reply #120
127. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-09 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #120
157. I hate that lol
I hate that when I am arguing with a person and someone else jumps in and gets their post deleted, because it looks like I was the one who posted the deleted post and was out of line.

For the record, I didn't respond to "you are pixels on a screen and nothing more" and it was not a post of mine that was deleted.

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cachukis Donating Member (232 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #109
150. Without being too intrusive I hope.....
The DLC has a very serious agenda to reward their constituents very much like the Gingrich mentality. That is their stomping grounds. Dean challenged that mentality. He waterd the roots. Samuel Adams who fervently eschewed the tax agenda of King George III laid bare his personal goals during and after Shay's Rebellion demanding that the rebels face death for undermining the aspirations of The Articles of Confederation. Sounds to me that we have a rehash of sorts going on today.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #68
126. "you are pixels on a screen and nothing more"
This sums it up and conclusively demonstrates that our work has only just begun. It is only day two and the usurpation is well under way.


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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #24
46. that isn't much
"Chairman Dean did a masterful job, obviously, in the 50 state strategy, of saying that every part of the state matters."

The context, and the sentence before and the sentence after, is about small donors to the Obama campaign.

This is hardly a resounding endorsement of Dean's strategy. In fact, it sounds like a perfunctory nod to soften the blow of the rest of what he is saying.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. Yes, it does, doesn't it?
Geared to soften the blow.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #46
53. Listen to the entire video
he praises Dean throughout and says they will take the strategy that has been so successful and will make it work, the way it worked for him in Virginia.

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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #53
73. I did
No one denies that he praises Dean. That is political-speak. Hell, Obama praised Bush.

The way he described it working for him in Virginia - "it was a state worth investing in" - contradicts the 50 state strategy.

We can't know from what he said what is going to happen. However, he neither gave the 50 state strategy a ringing endorsement, nor did he bury it. When politicians do that, that usually means they are paying lip service to the old as they reject it, and moving to something new. There was no need for any qualifications if he in fact completely supports the 50 state strategy. The fears could have been easily put to rest. If he does fully support the 50 state strategy, there would be no reason to not give it a ringing and unqualified endorsement.

Therefore, while madfloridian cannot know that the 50 state strategy is going to be dumped, there is certainly more than adequate reason to fear that it will.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #73
81. You did not listen to the full video, you couldn't have.
If you had you wouldn't post "Therefore, while madfloridian cannot know that the 50 state strategy is going to be dumped, there is certainly more than adequate reason to fear that it will." The video is quite clear, they do not intend to dump the 50 state strategy.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #81
95. think about it
We know what a person might say who was a wholehearted defender and promoter of the 50 state strategy. Whatever Kaine said, it was quite different than that.

Trust me, if the video was a resounding endorsement of the 50 state strategy, I would be pleased and so would the OP. That means that we are not merely looking for anything to get angry about or criticize.

The video is not a resounding endorsement of the 50 state strategy. There is no reason why he would not give a resounding endorsement, of he is in fact a wholehearted supporter of it.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #95
97. You didn't listen to the video
and you don't speak the truth as it was a resounding endorsement of the 50-state strategy.

The 50-state strategy is now and forever what Democrats do, Kaine told
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #97
101. huh?
I am the one who transcribed the relevant parts.

Yes, I listened to it. I acknowledged your points about it, too. I have a different interpretation of it, that's all.
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Mattylock Donating Member (36 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #16
132. Strategic review
What's wrong with the DNC doing a strategic review? If it worked, use more of it, if it didn't figure out what will work better. It doesn't mean the 50-state strategy will be abandoned, just fine tuned. That's smart. If anything different than that is happening, I'll wait to hear it from the horse's mouth.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #13
25. I posted the link to
Edited on Wed Jan-21-09 01:51 PM by merh
Kaine's position - he answered questions and the video is on youtube and on the DNC site.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvNexaOg9DE&eurl=http://...

11:25 addresses the 50 state strategy

The 50-state strategy is still on the site too.
http://www.democrats.org/a/party/a_50_state_strategy/
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Shiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. I saw that
So far as I can tell, there is very little truth to this rumour. Once I see some hard evidence that the strategy is being abandoned, then I'll get upset.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. The OP likes to start stuff
Kaine says that Dean did a wonderful job and they are going to take his ideas and his efforts and improve upon them. I don't see how that is a bad thing.

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Shiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. That's what I said
From the quote the OP posted to me upthread, it sounds more like they're honing the strategy, working to make it even better. Which will definitely be a good thing if the RNC tries to copy it - need to stay ahead of the opposition.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. exactly
The party is willing to grow and improve, that is a good thing.

At 23:00 minutes into the video he addresses Idaho's concern that they will be left to their own, he said no - he said that they intend to continue to work with the "red states" and will use the 50-state strategy - we can always do better tomorrow than we did today, will continue to use Dean's efforts and improve upon them.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #29
40. Talk to the OP in person....not behind her back.
This has been known for a while...that they would change it. It is nothing new. I don't care what they do now.
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Shiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. I've said all of this directly to you
What I've said has either been ignored or twisted into something completely different. You've made up your mind, though, and it doesn't seem as if you're willing to even consider the idea that you might be wrong on this.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #45
50. I know. I don't seem to fit the desired pattern lately. Sorry about that.
I keep hearing how I should change and be more accepting.

:shrug:
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #40
89. I have been talking to you
you just don't listen and you are posting rumors - even KOS posts a disclaimer about the source.

Kaine: Dems will court all 50 states now and forever
By Michael O'Brien
Posted: 01/21/09 03:12 PM

Virginia Gov. Tim Kaine, installed Wednesday as the new chairman of the Democratic National Committee (DNC), vowed to aggressively campaign in all 50 states and promised to rely on ideas and not ideology.

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/kaine-dems-will-cou...
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #29
76. yes
Edited on Wed Jan-21-09 03:14 PM by Two Americas
The OP likes to start things - like looking more deeply at an issue, thinking about it critically, and discussing it in an informed and intelligent manner.

Why do you insist that the default position we all take be one of trusting anything a politician says and reading into that the most favorable possible interpretation of their motives? Why are you so resistant to any and all critical analysis?

The burden of proof in a representative democracy is on the elected officials, on those in power, not on us.

Why would you so zealously protect and defend those in power, and tear down critics and dissidents?

If you disagree with the OP, make your best case and let the readers here make up their own minds.



.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #76
90. To think about it critically, one would have to deal with the facts
and the truth and not rumors and misinformation. You should know that. It is apparent you just like your lectures over substance.

Kaine: Dems will court all 50 states now and forever
By Michael O'Brien
Posted: 01/21/09 03:12 PM

Virginia Gov. Tim Kaine, installed Wednesday as the new chairman of the Democratic National Committee (DNC), vowed to aggressively campaign in all 50 states and promised to rely on ideas and not ideology.

The 50-state strategy is now and forever what Democrats do, Kaine told DNC members at the partys winter meeting in Washington, D.C. The plan to seek to compete in all states was put in place by Kaines successor, Howard Dean.

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/kaine-dems-will-cou...

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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #76
114. and some seem to not want you and others to delve deeper into this topic
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #114
123. That's very clear.
That there is to be no delving.

I loved the inauguration, got shivers and tears from the beauty of it. But I still question some things.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #123
135. same here... I'm very Happy Obama was elected
if anything we now can move forward with diversity and a bit more respect. This election is very important... although I too will always question and demand more. It's our duty as voters and tax paying citizens.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
32. All info from an unnamed anonymous source.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. The conclusions are not supported by the DNC website
that still has the 50 state strategy listed as their strategy
http://www.democrats.org/a/party/a_50_state_strategy /

And by Kaine in his video answering questions.

Kaine praises Dean and his successes, says they will build on them and improve on the very successful 50 state strategy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvNexaOg9DE&eurl=http://...
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #34
42. The website has not yet changed from Dean's tenure. Changeover today.
Don't know when the website will reflect all of it.

Don't really care.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #42
49. Yes it has changed.
God help us, do you have to continue to post distortions and untruths, to post rumors and nonsense?

Look who is posted on the home page.
http://www.democrats.org /

It is Kaine and Kaine's video is also linked there, how do you think I found it to be able to prove what you WRONG.

They didn't take down the 50-state strategy because they intend to use it.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #49
54. That is not what I meant at all. But have your fun.
Hey, as I say...it is okay with me.
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
8. Anything to sow the seeds of deeper regional polarization is to be applauded
because God knows this country doesn't have enough regional polarization.
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deminks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
9. Well, my purse strings are firmly shut.
I know. Not much against the DLC and the US Chamber of Commerce being back in the saddle.

They have to stop populism some how. /sarcasm off.
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liskddksil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
12. Hopefully the new PCCC
Edited on Wed Jan-21-09 01:21 PM by liskddksil
www.boldprogressives.com can be be built up to finance strong progressive candidates for congressional candidates in states the new DNC strategy will be ignoring. Although that still leaves out local and state races that we need to win.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
14. Bad strategy. While Obama's re-election machine is good,
Edited on Wed Jan-21-09 01:24 PM by mmonk
local Governorships and legislatures could redistrict (which is the GOP strategy moving forward) with the idea of regaining control of Congress. We were finally making progress in turning red states blue. Now the party will recentralize and stress pandering to the right.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #14
55. Something else to consider too
Edited on Wed Jan-21-09 02:27 PM by SoCalDem
Obama's popularity was great BEFORE he was elected..No one knows what it will be at year #3.. I am hoping it will stay high, but there will surely be some who supported him in 2007& 2008, who will become disillusioned, when all their pet ideas did not bear fruit.

Republicans controlled everything for so long, because they used the "farm team" approach all through the 80's & 90's.. NO office was too small for them to go after..at the local, county, state levels..

Politics is all about incumbency & name recognition. Obama was the exception to that rule, but mainly because of his unique appeal & history.

I feel badly for the newbies who eked out a win this cycle..in republican areas. They are most vulnerable their 1st re-election, and it sounds like they may get less support than they may need..

time will tell
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. Good statement.....many vulnerable ones.
.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #55
77. Yep. It will depend on Obama popularity.
Republicans smear candidates locally.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #55
156. yeah, right
the party is just going to abandon those newly won seats...

:eyes:

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Z_I_Peevey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
23. Stupid, stupid, stupid nt
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
31. Kaine: ""You never should just do what you did yesterday"
More Kaine...he said they were changing it.

""In response to both questions Kaine talks about all the ways that Virginia has gone from red to blue over the last few years and gives credit to Dean for this. I see it more as going from reddish-purple to bluish-purple but okay. He says the 50-state strategy was "really important." Good. He says "Its success speaks for itself." Yes.

But in both answers he says they won't being doing exactly what they did during the last 4 years. Kaine: "You never should just do what you did yesterday" and "We may do it in different ways." More specifically, Virginia is not, say, Idaho and therefore: "I won't say it should apply equally in every state." But we will continue it in "new and exciting ways."

So, bottom line: it was really important and successful and we'll be doing something that we'll call a 50-state strategy but it won't look like it did before. Because "you never should just do what you did yesterday" even if what you did yesterday worked really well."

http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=10962

My concern is like that of Kos...that the states need funds..all of them for down ticket races and rebuilding. If it is just some states...it is NOT the same thing.
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Shiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. If you can make what works well
work better, then why stick with what you have? The quote posted sounds like they're intending to hone and improve upon the strategy, not abandon it. You need to stay ahead of the curve, especially if the RNC decides to try and copy the strategy.

A quote that says nothing of what you are claiming is not proof.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. "hone and improve"
Nothing wrong with that at all.

You guys must think I care now how many states they include.

I don't.

Yes, since the GOP is going to use that strategy, we need to abandon it.

But I don't care enough to argue anymore.
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Shiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #38
43. What?
What the hell in my post brought you to that conclusion?

If the GOP decides to use it, then we need to use it BETTER. If they copy the current strategy, we need to make sure we're ahead of the curve, ready to counter them with even better tactics. I said nothing about abandonment. "Hone" and "improve" means taking what we have and making it work better, not getting rid of what has been shown to work.

Honestly, I love your posts, but I think you're wrong on this, and I do not appreciate people who twist my words into something that resembles nothing of what I said.
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dpbrown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
52. I won't give the national party money under that structure

Howard Dean was right. Democrats need to fight everywhere to be a truly national party.

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ieoeja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
57. I would expect you of all people to support this.

"In other words, the SPP program where the DNC pays for organizers chosen by the state parties themselves is, as previously reported, done. Instead, the DNC will likely hire and assign organizers themselves."


Given how upset you (and every other rational DUer) was with the Florida state party, I would say the last thing we want is for the DNC to trust those bastards ever again. Better the DNC recruit their own people. The Florida party would just use all those resources to convince everyone in that state the Democratic Party nationally was Marxist.


That having been said, I have to agree with a lot of other posters in this thread. OpenLeft gives no source for this information. Kaine doing stupid would not particularly surprise me -- the sole qualification for a successful politician is, after all, the ability to win popularity contests; brilliance isn't exactly something I expect from them too often -- but I am going to save my anger for if/when he actually does stupid rather than following some blogger's crystal ball.


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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. Some people just like to complain
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #59
62. Like people who point out the massive failure of NAFTA, you mean?
:silly:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #57
63. No, wait....it was the FL legislative Dems who voted 115 to 1 for the early primary
Actually, I can see how trying to recruit Dems in red states will lead to recruiting more republican types.

But we can't blame the primary stuff on the strategy...they voted in the legislature for that.

It's kind of nice to finally realize that power is back where it was. Works better that way and costs me less passion and money.

I don't agree or disagree with you, and yes, both bloggers could be wrong. But it really doesn't matter now that Wasserman Schultz is there at the DNC as well.

A couple of the DNC staffers in FL actually tried to set the state leaders straight....but they are too entrenched.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
58. The "50 State Strategy" was stupid; "Democrats" from the Deep South and Mountain West = Republicans
everywhere else.

The 50 state strategy put long-loyal constituencies to the side in order to court Blue Dogs and center/right ex-Republicans. It's shifted the Party to right. Hard.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #58
64. So we just go with blue states? Fine with me.
My money and I don't worry about it anymore. Took me 5 years to learn.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. How about we stand up for our ideals and let the chips fall where they may?
It's called "Integrity".
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #65
108. I did that for 5 years.
Now I intend to concern myself with those who will stand up for my ideals.

I think it is unwise to have a chairman who is anti-civil unions, anti-choice, and anti-labor.

I also don't like the fact that Wasserman Schultz is Vice Chair since she crossed the DNC so such during the primaries.

It almost seems like a slap in the face.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #108
130. Now you understand how I feel about Geithner, Summers, Furman, Goolsbee...nt
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #58
66. really? didn't Obama win VA, NC, FL, and close to win in GA and in the mountain states
didn't he win CO, NM, and nearly MT?
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #66
69. You're talking about "winning". I'm talking about "principles" and "values"
Of course, winning at any cost is a principle of sorts...
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #58
70. It worked for Dems in 2006 with the Out of Iraq spin
Mountain wester here, and even though the Dems FAILED to do anything but shovel more money to WarInc after they gained the majority - the Dems and Repubs here bought that message with their votes.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #70
74. So.... when are we getting out of Iraq again?
I think there are two definitions of "it worked" at play here:

Definition #1: it secured a victory for someone with a (D) after his/her name.
Definition #2: it furthered progressive ideals or benefited the American public.

The 50 state strategy was a resounding success as to the first sense of "it worked". Much less so as to the second.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #74
78. Exactly
And they knew it would work that way.

But both parties have become adept at securing #1 without unleashing #2.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
71. It sounds like a bad idea, for which they have offered no justification
The lower level offices matter, and how do they think they eventually turned the states they turned?
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Shardik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
72. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. n/t
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
75. WRONG: Kaine: Dems will court all 50 states now and forever
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Shiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #75
79. I want to rec this post
If I could rec you, I'd do that as well.

...

That sounds slightly dirty in retrospect...
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #75
88. You know how it goes
Mud slingers don't care about the truth or the facts.

thanks for posting the link





This is the DU member always known as merh.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #88
102. Nice name change, you rebel you.
:D
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #102
104. LOL
I've never gone along with the crowd - might be why I'm not one of the kool kidz. :silly:



This is the DU member always known as merh.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #88
118. Please quit calling me a mud slinger.
I would appreciate it....thanks.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #75
106. He also said not to trust those strategies to work in the future.
"The results speak for themselves. Ill oversimplify: everybody matters. Every state, every region, every community matters, Kaine said. However, he also warned Democrats to not simply trust that strategies that worked last year would also work in the future.

Dean had earlier defended the strategy in a valedictory speech before Kaines election as chairman.

We cannot appear complacent, Dean told party members. We need to keep showing up, keep asking people for their vote, or we can lose their votes just as quickly as we gained them.

Why wouldn't they work in the future?

Frankly, I don't care what strategy they use. I just know things will be easier for us now as far as expending energy and money. Life will be simpler.

We just won back congress and the white house, but now it won't work?

Let the corporations fund them.
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Born_A_Truman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
87. So somehow state & local democrats can't organize themselves?
What is stopping the state party from organizing? Money? Aren't they allowed to raise money? We have a local club and that's who I contacted during the general election to volunteer to register voters. I wasn't funded by anyone but myself. I donated my time and gas. Same as when I did the drive for change to Nevada. I paid for my own hotel and gas.

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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
105. The 50-state strategy was the best example of "reaching out" and ...
... a perfect example of "thinking big" and "inclusiveness" and "we are not a Red-state America and a Blue-state America, but the United States of America."

And, something that will be looked back on as an example of "our best history."

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
110. There are various kinds of sources. Please stop the insults here.
Kaine says he will continue the strategy in a changed form. He said it in the video link in this thread.

In a changed form....not the same way.

Fine by me. We already stopped monthly donations, and find it a relief financially. Fine with me.

Chris is quoting sources from within the DNC who are in on the everyday meeting and planning and are quite aware of the details being planned.

The DNC, as is traditionally done, is being turned into part of the Obama re-election campaign for 2012. That's okay, too.

The party is his now, that is his right. But what is best for Obama may not play out to be best for the down ticket folks in some iffy states. That's where the problem lies. I don't care what they do now.

But I think it is unfair to call names and insult when Kaine himself said he would do it in a changed form. And Wasserman Schultz, a close friend of Rahm, and now vice party chair.....is going to discourage efforts to keep it going.

Changed form is fine with me. It takes less effort and passion from hubby and me.

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Shiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #110
113. You automatically assume
that "in a changed form" means for the negative.

Strategies can be improved upon. They can be refined and made to work even better.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #113
117. Did you read the specifics given?
Not improvements in my mind.

As I keep saying in this thread, I don't care what they do.

The choice of a chair who is anti-choice, anti-civil unions, and the choice of Wasserman Schultz as Vice chair has told me what I need to know for now.

It does matter what Kaine does. The DNC is Obama's to do with as he wishes now.

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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #117
121. You'd think Obama would want to retain,
maybe even increase, the Demcratic majority in Congress (especially when we see how obstructionist the Republicans are already being). I can't figure out why they're going back to a losing strategy.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #121
122. Found a puzzling statement by Kaine today.
It shows the DNC first priority now is to push the Obama agenda...but he said he wants to win also.

It just sounded odd.

New DNC chair will rally millions of Obama backers

WASHINGTON Virginia Gov. Tim Kaine, the new chairman of the Democratic National Committee, says he wants his team to win elections but his "first goal" is to mobilize President Obama's millions of supporters behind his plans for the country.

The Obama campaign amassed 13 million names on an e-mail list that now is being "rolled into the party" for its permanent use, Kaine said in an interview Wednesday with USA TODAY. He said the huge base of supporters will be activated on health care and other issues important to the president.

"We're very focused on the notion that engagement should not just be around contributing or being part of election cycles. It should be around governance and social change," Kaine said of himself and Obama. "My first goal is to promote his agenda in a positive way."


That is one reason Dean stepped down, the DNC role changed.

But more about changing the strategy:

Former Vermont governor Howard Dean, Kaine's predecessor, instituted a 50-state strategy of putting money and resources everywhere instead of only in places where Democrats looked like good bets. Kaine told reporters that approach will continue under "an intense strategic plan" he is developing with advisers.


I think Bowers sources were right on this....there will be change. Nothing wrong with change. Will save me money because the power money guys are getting their party back.

Yes, Gov. Kaine, we want our team to win elections as well. But you have an interest mainly in VA until 2010. :shrug:



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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #122
140. It will save me some money as well
thought not too much as my donations to the national party have pretty much been token amounts - though they picked up a bit while Dean was chair.

Sooner or later they will have to figure out that it takes more than money to win elections - if you don't have the volunteers and, of course, the voters all the money in the world won't help.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #122
141. More from Kaine about the strategy...purposely vague after the meeting.
Please bear in mind that I don't care what plan they use now. True colors have already been shown in the way Dean was shown the door by the administration.

So whatever they do is fine, as long as they don't need my hard earned money for it. Fool me once...

Democrats anxious about '50-state strategy' under Obama

"When Jennifer O'Malley Dillon, the new executive director of the Democratic National Committee, concluded her brief remarks to a meeting of state party chairs in Washington on Wednesday, she got a clear and simple reminder of what DNC members want from the committees new leadership.

"Jen, you dont really need to hear any questions," New Hampshire party chairman Raymond Buckley told her. "We have three words for you: '50-state strategy.'"

...."But now that Dean is gone and Virginia governor Tim Kaine has been installed as President Barack Obama's pick to lead the organization, some of the party chairs who gathered at the DNCs annual Winter Meeting this week expressed anxiety that the precious resources doled out by the committee could vanish as the new administration takes control of the party machinery. The DNC-funded field staff positions expired on election day, and the party chairs particularly those in states long dismissed by national Democrats want the hiring practice renewed.

"Right now all 50 of the state chairs are on pins and needles," said Oklahoma Democratic chairman Ivan Holmes. "It's possible they could undo in one year what it's taken four years for Dean to do if they don't embrace the 50-state strategy financially, and let the chairs have input on who they hire and what their duties are."

..."Speaking to reporters after the general session of the DNC met on Wednesday, Kaine vowed to "play strong in all 50 states" and praised Deans efforts. But Kaine was light on details and would not commit to hiring staffers for every state, instead promising to reveal an "intense strategic plan" in the next two months. Some states might need personnel, he said, but others might require "expertise and research."


However they do it is ok. I think Chris's source called it right.



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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #117
133. The specifics don't come from Kaine. They come from an "unnamed source". Convenient.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #113
143. but there's no drama and outrage
to be had from a positive reading...
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 05:46 AM
Response to Original message
128. That sucks!
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geckosfeet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 06:12 AM
Response to Original message
129. I hope this is a head fake. Cause if it's not it's stupid.
Conceding before you even put up a fight is stupid.

Methinks that there are too many smoky backroom deals going on.

Where is the transparency?
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DirtyDawg Donating Member (594 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
134. The Reason Georgia's...
...been a lost cause for Dems these past six-plus years is that the National Dem Party had pretty-much said to itself, and to us, that 'you're right, you are a lost cause. The result is that we failed to put up quality candidates in time to take advantage of the Obama rising tide and we pissed away the best opportunity we've had, or will have, to take back the state. All one needs to do is see how they've treated Howard Dean, the only man that gave a shit about all these red-state residents that have struggled to turn the tables, and now we are just adrift...again. The saddest part is that Obama doesn't seem to 'give a shit' either.
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TornadoTN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #134
139. Same thing with Tennessee - they ignored TN in 2000 and we're paying the price now
It's pretty depressing to be honest, because this state isn't as backwards red as it seems. But without a viable ground game or a state party that's halfway competent, this state will flounder under the GOP's rule until someone decides to do something about it.

I'll be saving money, that's for sure.
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Jokerman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
136. So Indiana will go back to being red for the next forty years.
Monumentally stupid and short sited.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #136
138. So should the National Party become Republican-lite to win Indiana?
And don't you think that risks losing Wisconsin, Michigan, New York, California, etc? :shrug:
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #138
144. the national party isn't becoming Republican lite
your argument is a strawman

and a poor one at that
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #144
147. "Should" is a word that suggests the way something *might* be, *in the future*
You might want to look up "straw man argument" for your own future reference.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #147
153. whatever
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html

would you prefer "completely fucking stupid" to "strawman"?
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #153
155. Indeed. nt
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Jokerman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #138
145. WTF are you talking about?
In case you weren't paying attention, Obama and the fifty state strategy delivered Indiana to the democratic party for the first time since 1964. We did it through a well-financed canvassing and GOTV strategy.

Maybe Obama isn't as liberal as some of us would like him to be but to call him "Republican-lite" is ridiculous.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #145
148. In case YOU weren't paying attention, Obama shifted hard to the center/right for the GE.
"Maybe Obama isn't as liberal as some of us would like him to be but to call him "Republican-lite" is ridiculous."

Who called him "Republican-lite"??? :wtf:
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Jokerman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #148
152. Try reading your own post.
"So should the National Party become Republican-lite to win Indiana?"

Your statement:
Republican-lite = win Indiana

A known fact:
Obama = win Indiana

The logical conclusion from your statement:
Obama = Republican-lite

Maybe you meant that the fifty-state strategy = republican-lite but that's nonsense as well.


"Obama shifted hard to the center/right for the GE"

Really? So you have evidence that Obama's message or policies "shifted" significantly after the convention?

If so, let's hear it. Otherwise it's just more nonsense.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #152
154. Nowhere in this (or any) thread have I said Obama = Republican-lite
Edited on Thu Jan-22-09 06:39 PM by Romulox
Your statement:
Republican-lite = win Indiana

A known fact:
Obama = win Indiana

The logical conclusion from your statement:
Obama = Republican-lite


I am a man.

Obama is a man.

Therefore, I am Obama! QED :eyes:

"Really? So you have evidence that Obama's message or policies "shifted" significantly after the convention?"


Read a newspaper once in a while, would ya?

Obama: NAFTA not so bad after all

http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/18/magazines/fortune/easto... /




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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
146. Good for Chris...he writes more and stands by his source. Good for him.
http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=11061

"# First, the fifty-state strategy, as it operated under Howard Dean, was almost entirely about the DNC paying the salaries of organizers chosen by all fifty state parties. Read the DNC's description of the program, and their post-campaign memo for clarity on this. In total, about 200 of these organizers were on the DNC's payroll by Election Day in 2008.

# In November, these 200 organizers were all laid off. This is exactly the same thing as suspending the fifty-state strategy.

# Yesterday, I posted an article describing what was going to happen next, based on information given to me by an anonymous source. The reason I did not publish the source's name is that I don't want anyone else to get fired. I asked the source if I could say where s/he worked, but s/he said no. And no, it wasn't Matt Stoller. If that isn't good enough for you, fine. There are good reasons to be skeptical of anonymous sources. I trust the source, and I will keep publishing what s/he tells me. If that offends you, there are thousands of other political blogs around."

..."The only real problem I have with this change in strategy, if indeed it is what will happen, is what I wrote at the end of the post: "firing the 200 state party organizers a real blow to the long-term development of local Democratic Party talent and infrastructure." It is a fact that these organizers were fired and, in my opinion, the vast majority of them should have been kept on rather than being replaced by new organizers. We need local talent, not just DC talent. We need long-term organizers, not just people moving from job to job every four years.

In other fifty-state strategy news, Blue Hampshire notes Ray Buckley has been elected President of the association of state chairs. This is important since, from what I have heard (yeah, I know, this is also based on a different anonymous source, but whatever) Buckley is a true believer in the fifty-state strategy. The strategy is very popular among the state chairs, which in and of itself probably guarantees that every state will get at least one DNC organizer.

As a final note, I don't take verbal support for the fifty-state strategy as worth very much."

Good for him.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
149. LMAO. Yes, nutty bloggers are *far* more trustworthy as to the DNC's aims than the DNC itself is.
Edited on Thu Jan-22-09 03:35 PM by Occam Bandage
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canaar Donating Member (50 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
151. How Much Wronger Could the DNC Possibly Get?
To me, the DNC is memorialized by the 2004 Kerry campaign. I worked hard in that campaign knowing full well that it was the most elitist, arrogant, dismissive, uninspiring, tepid, doomed campaign that I had ever seen (except for perhaps the Dukakis campaign). I worked in a battleground state and felt that way. My heart went out to the core of democratic activists that tried to work the Kerry campaign in the non-battleground states.

Ceding ground to Republicans in red state congressional races and extending all the way down-ballot to non-partisan county and municipal races by marginalizing loyal democratic activists in the non-battleground states is the sureist way to dismantle what the democratic parties in counties and states across the nation were able to build in 2008.

In 2006, the Wisconsin party apparatchiks were late to the table in the democrats' successful turnaround of the state. Organizations like the League of Conservations Voters and the Progressive Majority, working in coalition to target their resources and who dragged the entrenched democratic party machines along into working more broadly through coalition syncronization were the deciding factor in flipping the state senate. Had these groups been organized in 2004, Wisconsin wouldn't have had to wait until 2008 to flip the house, but then again, Dean's 50 state leadership was not well developed nationally in time for the 2004 general election.

A party that draws its power from the big tent and that has as many small interest groups contributing to that multitude in the tent, cannot succeed when it treats its members as if they were republicans (a much more monolithic and less fragmented base). I had hoped that Kaine's friendship with Obama would have given him the spine to resist the old guard. However, in retrospect Obama was somewhat tight fisted at the end of the campaign when several down ballot competitive candidates in the reddest states requested his assistance.

Sigh...
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