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Turley: Most abroad will view Bush as a war criminal

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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 08:43 AM
Original message
Turley: Most abroad will view Bush as a war criminal
Turley: Most abroad will view Bush as a war criminal
.....................

"Do you think that Obama and his team realized how hot an issue this would become and would stay?" Maddow asked Constitutional law professor Jonathan Turley.

"I don't think so," Turley replied. "I don't think the people in that building thought it," he added, pointing to the Capitol. "I mean, that building is where principles go to die. And they haven't, because there's been this groundswell of people saying, 'Look, you might be able to get away with an electronic surveillance program and say that's just a crime we're not going to allow to be prosecuted, but these are war crimes., these are a special category.'"

"I think that the new Barack Obama, the President Obama, is going to find it very hard to go round the world and to say that we're now again the nation of rules of law," Turley suggested, "if the first act he commits as president is to talk away from a confirmed war crime."

"Are we literally looking at a possibility," Maddow asked, "where administration officials from this (previous) administration cannot travel abroad to the other 145 countries that have signed the torture treaty because they might get arrested?"

"Most certainly," Turley replied. "The status of George Bush is not that different from Augusto Pinochet. They've both been accused of running a torture program. And outside this country, there's not this ambiguity about what to do with a war crime. ... Most people abroad are going to view you not as former President George Bush, they're going to view you as a current war criminal."

"And they're going to view us as an outlaw regime for not arresting him on our own soil," Maddow remarked.

"I think so, unfortunately," Turley agreed. "A lot's at stake."

more at:
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Turley_Traveling_abroad_B...
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
1. Abroad, probably, or as nearby as my house.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
2. George Bush is as unpopular here as Nixon was after Watergate.
Edited on Wed Jan-21-09 08:49 AM by sfexpat2000
The American people know, too. If our government is going to regain its credibility anywhere, the Bush regime criminals have to be held accountable.
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
3. They lied to start an unneeded war ...
.... end of story.
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
4. A lot IS at stake
Because if the United States doesn't arrest and try these war criminals, someone else is likely to take matters into their own hands. And they might not observe procedural niceties like orderly presentation of evidence, witnesses, and verdict. They'll go right to sentencing and inflict their own rough justice on any Americans they can reach. If you don't mind paying the price for the Bush administration's crimes against humanity, then let him go; but if you object to seeing more Americans dying fiery deaths, then we should investigate these crimes, develop the evidence and try the perpetrators.
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PRETZEL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
5. Professor Turley is right
but enforcing it is going to be a totally different matter. We all know (and 70+ percent agree) that BushCo. has dome more damage to our country and our standing in the world than any political figure in our history combined. We may never recover fully. But, given all we do know, are we as a country ready to voluntarily turn over one of our former Presidents? Are we as a country ready to set that precedent?

I honestly don't know. The Bush Administration must be held accountable where accountability was lacking before. That is without fail a task that President Obama must give more than lip service to. Professor Turley is absolutely right on that point. But will we be satisfied knowing that the full truth of the deeds of the Bush Administration becomes a matter of public record and that history and the legacy of George W. Bush (and by extension the Republican Party, the Bush Family name, and those foreign leaders, i.e. Tony Blair)will forever be linked to those actions?

I just don't know how far as a country we're willing to go on this.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
6. Recommended.
Thanks kpete.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
7. The only thing to do now is keep the drumbeat going - and make sure it keeps
getting LOUDER.
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
8. Let's teach our children, talk to our friends, demand of our leaders... Justice must be served.
I will never let anyone around me forget that for 8 years we had a war criminal as our President.

I will, until the day I die, ask, expect and demand that he be served a full measure of justice.

I ask you all to do the same.

We are the writers of history now.
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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
9. I know at least one person here who does
and I suspect I'm not alone
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
10. I support an International Private effort.
I will donate $500 to ANY organization that will place a Bounty on Bush/Cheney to be paid to anyone who provides evidence or sworn testimony that leads to their indictment or arrest.

A small, transparent trust located in a neutral country like Switzerland could administer the fund. If the BOUNTY is promoted internationally, it would quickly grow to Mega-Millions.

The fund would also be tasked with running full page Wanted For War Crimes ads in major Global newspapers every 3 months until the Bounty is awarded or depleted.

I believe that such a fund would be wildly popular worldwide, and provide the administrators an opportunity to make a little money.
I have neither the resources or skills to institute such a fund, but like I said above, I am willing to donate $500. I also believe that there are at least a million more worldwide (extreme minimum) who would also be willing to donate....that adds up to some serious money.

Wanted
for
WAR CRIMES


A $500 Million Dollar Reward will be paid to any individual, organization, or country that provides evidence or sworn testimony that leads to the arrest, or the issuance of an Internal Arrest Warrant for War Crimes committed by George Bush, Dick Cheney, Colin Powell, Condoleezza Rice, or Donald Rumsfeld.


It is clear that the Opposition Party (Democratic Party) and the US Justice Department will do NOTHING to hold the criminals accountable.
A private organization representing Citizens of the World would have better results.


Even if Bush/Cheney are never arrested, a Mega-Million Dollar International Bounty would certainly keep them looking over their shoulders, curtail retirement travel plans.

It would also put a nice ribbon around the Bush Legacy, AND serve as a warning to future "Unitary Executives".
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chknltl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #10
29. This should be it's own thread...
Edited on Thu Jan-22-09 01:50 AM by chknltl
...furthermore it should be cross posted in more than just the DU. I would dearly love to be reading this or words similar in the Huffington Post and The Nation Magazine and etc.
May I copy this and send it off to the Thom Hartmann message board and perhaps even to Senator Bernie Sanders?

(edited to add the request)
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Road Scholar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
11. Keep this kicked and recommended please.
:kick:
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
12. ...
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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
13. Had the choice been mine to make
Turley would have been my AG pick.
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. He'd make a great Supreme Court justice. n/t
Edited on Wed Jan-21-09 01:56 PM by Blue_In_AK
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
14. K&R
Can't be a nation of laws when the laws aren't upheld

and if war criminals can go free then the only rule of law is that some people are above the law

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newtothegame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
15. Absurd. And misleading. Guarantee you he will walk into any country easy as pie...
Yes, they'll hate him. Yes they'll be protests. But anyone thinking he's gonna be viewed the way Nazi war criminals were in the 1940's is kidding themselves.
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I'll take that bet HE is a war criminal and some countries care about the rule of law.
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newtothegame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. You're more optimistic than I am....but let's hope :)
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. I am doing everything I can to make it happen. Let them hope.
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
19. this should be our number one priority
do we really want his crimes to fall on us???? They need to be prosecuted, and apparently some reporters do not believe we are interested in this, where are they getting their information from? I for one, like many of you, Bush and his criminal band must be prosecuted.
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Road Scholar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
20. Kick
:kick:
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
21. K&R n/t
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AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
22. Most (at least 8/10) people I know from UK and W. Europe believe he ordered Abu Ghraib
to be done.
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Zywiec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
24. No current US president is going to tolerate a former president
being arrested overseas. If it's not done here, it won't be done anywhere else.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
25. everyone i know considers him a war criminal too, mr turley
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
26. K&R
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bonito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
27. You can ever put good over bad and expect it to last
This from an old floor covering installer, and another thing preparation is everything , if you're not willing to do the prep, don't do the job!
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
28. It is always worth paying attentiion to Jonathan Turley
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 02:36 AM
Response to Original message
30. Good for Turley --- are Americans hearing this . . . ???
I think most Americans want to see justice done re Bush/Cheney --

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