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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 01:54 AM
Original message
A quick education for the South bashers here...
I get a little tired of reading all the South bashing here, with smug people jawing on about 'Southern racists' blah blah blah... it's time to stick a sock in it and actually do some research and educate yourselves.

According to the SPLC there are 38 identified racists groups in Tennessee, 42 in Georgia, 45 in South Carolina, 24 in Alabama & 28 in North Carolina. There are also 26 in New York, 33 in Pennsylvania & 34 in New Jersey.

Hate crimes in the North far outnumber those of the South. In 2008, there were 34 incidents reported in Pennsylvania, 68 in New York & 18 in New Jersey, compared to 11 in North Carolina, 8 in South Carolina, 9 in Tennessee, 9 in Alabama & 8 in Georgia. Please feel free to check it out for yourselves: http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp and http://www.splcenter.org/intel/hatewatch/fortherecord.j...

Always remember... when you're pointing the finger at someone else, you've got 3 fingers pointing back at yourself... when you start bashing the South, you sound just like the bigots that profess to loathe...


Peace,

Ghost



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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 01:56 AM
Response to Original message
1. This transplanted Yankee loves the South.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
29. We moved to The Rural South (gasp) in 2006 from Minnesota.
We love it here.

"Bubble Proof" Property Values (inexpensive), Long growing season, pristine environment, clean water, low energy costs (heating), low property taxes.

We're gonna turn this place Blue!
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SCantiGOP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #29
63. 'turn this place blue'
We're making progess. A black man carries VA and NC - never thought I'd see it in my lifetime. Even in the core of the Confederacy here in SC, we're making progress. Bush carried SC by 16 and 17%, but McCain only carried it by 9%.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #63
79. We checked our precinct totals after the election.
Edited on Mon Jan-19-09 03:34 PM by bvar22
In the most rural, undeveloped, part of Arkansas, we were stunned to find that 1 out of 3 (33%) of our neighbors voted for "the black guy".
Before the election, we had privately speculated that Obama would take less than 10% of our precinct. There was absolutely NO Democratic Money spent campaigning in our area.
With a little money, support, and a STRONG Democratic message of Economic Justice, this area depressed and poor as it is, is RIPE for the picking.

The Times they are a changing.

On Edit:
Of course, now that the Democrats hold big majorities and the White House, they had better deliver some Economic Justice to us regular people.
No more no strings attached Bailouts for Wall Street Billionaires while LABOR has to give up benefits.
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #79
107. Hmmm
Edited on Tue Jan-20-09 12:31 AM by Art_from_Ark
It's usually the "rich" areas of the state-- Benton, Sebastian, Crawford and Baxter counties-- that vote for the Republican, no matter what. On the other hand, a lot of the undeveloped counties along the Mississippi River can be counted on to vote Democratic. I take it, though, that you're in one of the deep Ozarks counties, like Madison, Boone, Conway or Newton-- in which case, I would be surprised at the support for Obama.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #107
115. Hi neighbor.
We're in the Ouachita Mtns, close to Oklahoma....sparsely populated Polk County west of Mena.

We loved the Ozarks, but decided to relocate further south.
The growing season (between the frosts) is a month longer here, and the ground a little easier to work. The cost of property hasn't yet ballooned like some of the areas further north.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
46. Same Here
It learns ya.
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HarukaTheTrophyWife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 01:57 AM
Response to Original message
2. Those hate groups in NJ are mostly in the part that we really consider PA
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 03:19 AM
Response to Reply #2
13. If there's one thing I can't stand, it's "PA Creep".
And it's creepy on more than one level.
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October Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #13
113. Says more about you
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #113
124. Ummm... "huh?"
That was 'fluff'. A nothing, a slightly less than silly jibe whose purpose was insubstantial.

Something I rarely engage in unless, as here, I seek to interject levity.

In other words; It was a joke, you doofus.

I'll grant it wasn't a good one, but I have to ask... just what is it you think I meant?
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October Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #2
112. Ugly remark
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HarukaTheTrophyWife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #112
116. Look, I'm from NJ, people make fun of NJ all the time
PA can take it, too.
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October Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #116
125. LOL! Fair enough. Just don't blame Pennsy for Jersey issues
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 02:10 AM
Response to Original message
3. You realize those stats are meaningless, no?
Not that I'm for bashing the South per se; I'm not. But hate crime stats will depend on enforcement and prosecution policies, not on the actual number of crimes that could be potentially categorized as such.

Thanks.
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 02:23 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Enforcement & prosecution policies have a bearing.
And total population of each state should be considered. But none of these things render the statistics meaningless. That is absurd.
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Eryemil Donating Member (958 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. They, however, cannot be used to justify the point the OP was trying to make
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 02:48 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. Okay, sorry I said meaningless...
They are, of course, meaningful. They just don't say what the OP claims.

Their most important meaning, as statistics, probably relates to the degree to which hate crimes laws serve as the basis for enforcement and prosecution in different states; though I suppose one can claim instead that the measurements reflect consistent policies across states and the differences in rates as measured provide for an objective comparison.

One can argue, but proven is nothing!
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #9
67. No need to apologize to me in a friendly discussion.
It is often difficult to find agreement on this topic. One reason is, folks disagree on a more basic level than we have discussed here. If you hit the website linked in the OP, you can see that hate groups, and not just racist groups, are listed. I think that is a good way to look at it since racism is but one form of bigotry.

But in this thread we have been mostly discussing racism. When you talk about racism, some people think only of white racism against african-americans. But I noticed that the Southern Poverty Law Center website includes the New Black Panther Party and Nation of Islam among black separatist hate groups. And the Jewish Defense League is listed as a general hate group.

A protracted discussion could ensue about which groups should and shouldn't be listed. But my point is, caucasians do not have a monopoly on bigotry and african-americans are not uniquely targeted. And if we were all of one race we would still find reasons to hate. This has been made clear by the ethnic cleansing in Iraq and the Rawandan genocide inflicted upon the Tutsis by the Hutu.

Especially in honor of MLK on this special day I wish peace and love upon us all. It's still a good idea, Brother.

:hippie:
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provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 02:29 AM
Response to Original message
5. oh bull; no hate crimes in Mississippi?
those hate crime stats are bullshit. Plus, those southern states you cite have much smaller populations than NY, NJ, and Pennsylvania; so proportionately they probably have 2-3 times as many hate groups as northern states.

Plus sociological surveys time after time have confirmed that white Southerners are far more racist than any other ethnic group in America. When I lived in Mississippi, the local joke was that other Southern states had bad race relations; Mississippi had NO race relations.
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AndrewP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #5
42. I guess Mississippi is now a United Nations type of state
According to those "stats"

WTF?



Another quick stat for you to consider....

I've never been rejected personally by Eva Mendes.
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snake in the grass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 02:31 AM
Response to Original message
6. I'm from the South...
...and am now living in L.A. after spending the last 22 years in Europe. Racism as well as ignorance are ubiquitous but I have yet to experience them as overt as in Dixie. That is why I don't miss the place.
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izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 02:38 AM
Response to Original message
8. 7 Years in the South
Remember the movie with Brad Pitt a few years ago, "7 Years in Tibet"? I had my own exile for 7 years, in the state that gave the Confederacy its start, South Carolina. All I can say is that most of the "South bashing" that goes on is based on a thousand anecdotes that support the fact that it is a backwards shithole.

You can equivocate all day long, that not all people and not all places are backwards, that other places have racists and idiots, that progress is being made, but the fact still remains, it is a backwards shithole.

I've learned not to expect much from Southerners, and when they fit the same old racist, bigoted-but-love-Jesus stereotype, I just write another one off as hopelessly stewed in his toxic upbringing. Just like the old saw "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink", there is one of equal truth: "you can lead a Southerner to facts, but you can't make him think".

What I learned from my 7 years is that I never, ever want to go back, and that most other places I have lived or traveled to, the people are more hospitable than Southerners.
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
30. Thanks for proving my point for me, oh Great One with the Broad Brush..
"What I learned from my 7 years is that I never, ever want to go back, and that most other places I have lived or traveled to, the people are more hospitable than Southerners."

Maybe they weren't hospitable because of *your* attitude? Just a guess... but we don't put up with people that act like the stereotypical arrogant northerner either. Please *do* stay away... we won't miss you, or your arrogant, better than thou attitude...




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Kalyke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #30
43. LOL... I was about to type the same thing.
Sounds like the attitude of the poster to which you were responding needs far more repair than most of us "backwards" people in the South.

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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
36. I imagine that one man's generalization...
I imagine that one man's generalization of a group of people is another man's anecdotal reality.
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petronius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #8
41. Perhaps you found what you expected to find?
I also lived for 7 years in the South (Louisiana), and I found it to be anything but a toxic, backwards shithole. There were bigots and idiots, but not much different than we have here, and I had no difficulty at all finding hospitable, friendly, genuine, caring people (again, just like here)...

:shrug:
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Alcibiades Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
77. I was born and live in NC
but most of my kinfolk are from SC.

South Carolina is a backwards place. Most smart folks get out of SC, they don't move there from somewhere else.

There are, of course, exceptions, and progressives are to be found in every state. But South Carolina suffers from a spiral of poverty, bad public education, corruption, crazy religiosity, ancestor worship, senseless devotion to a "heritage" that fails to reflect the full diveristy that is our real inheritance, and feckless incompetence, none of which has gotten better after a generation of Republican misrule.

Please note, however, that North Carolina is quite nice, and getting better every day. Blessed with a milder climate, a more progressive and pragmatic politics, and a higher proportion of well educated Yankee transplants. Please don't move here, though--we're approaching capacity.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
119. 7 Years in the South Side.
Edited on Tue Jan-20-09 03:21 PM by Occam Bandage
Remember the movie with Brad Pitt a few years ago, "7 Years in Tibet"? I had my own exile for 7 years, in the city that gave Al Capone its start, Chicago. All I can say is that most of the "Black bashing" that goes on is based on a thousand anecdotes that support the fact that the South Side is a backwards shithole.

You can equivocate all day long, that not all people and not all places are backwards, that other races have thugs and idiots, that progress is being made, but the fact still remains, the South Side is a backwards shithole.

I've learned not to expect much from black people, and when they fit the same old gangbanging, dumb-but-love-bling stereotype, I just write another one off as hopelessly stewed in his toxic upbringing. Just like the old saw "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink", there is one of equal truth: "you can lead a black man to facts, but you can't make him think".

What I learned from my 7 years is that I never, ever want to go back, and that most other places I have lived or traveled to, the people are more hospitable than black people.

------

Is there a difference? I don't see one.
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Duppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
120. a native Tennessean here who hates the state and the south
I'll never move back to Tenn. Coastal Virginia is bad enough.

Bash the South, but not us southerners here. Not all of us southerners are stupid, bigoted, racists.

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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 03:01 AM
Response to Original message
10. For years one of the most racist, if not the most racist, large city in America was
Boston, MA

Indiana still has some of the most active Klan Groups in the Country

I don't know how much it's changed since the 80's,but when I was at WSU, Coeur D'Laine Idaho had the largest Chapter of the Aryan Brotherhood in the US
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 03:05 AM
Response to Original message
11. K&R Thank you.
:thumbsup:
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 03:16 AM
Response to Original message
12. Actually, when I point a finger...
the other three fingers are pointing in three other directions.

... and that's just on one hand.

... and I have toes.

... and I have, uhhh... well... I can point at all kinds of shit.

But The South?

Well, I got family there, so I guess there's pointing involved after all.

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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 03:21 AM
Response to Original message
14. Just another form of acceptable bigotry.
It is known as "regionalism." Like other forms of bigotry, it supposes some "others" are worse than/better than others based on generalizations, lies, half-truths, stereotypes, and good old fashion hate.
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Webster Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 03:51 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. See post #8. Totally nails it!
Have you ever lived in the South?

Racist shit-hole is being kind.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 04:31 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. Post #8 does nail it!
It shows how deep bigotry against a region is. It also shows how ignorant people can be.

I live in New Orleans now and I have grown up in the South. I have also lived in California, Indiana, Pennsylvania, and Oklahoma. I have been to more than 30 states. I can say bigotry is rampant in all of those states. What confuses you and those like you is, in the South, the bigots tend to be "open" with their bigotry in Southern states, as opposed to the "tolerant" Northern/Western/Central states.
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misanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #19
48. Translation...
...In the South, it is more acceptable to publicly voice racism than in those other places you name.

I've seen more people rebuked for using profanity in mixed company than for using racist language.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #48
76. Translation...
...In places, other than the South, it is more acceptable to allow bigotry to thrive, as long as racist language isn't used in public.
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misanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #76
91. What you allow in public...
...sets the tone for what is acceptable in private.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #91
92. Simplistic.
What occurs in private, does so, because to do so in public invites dissent.
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misanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #92
95. Dizzy yet?**nm
**
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #95
106. Not in the least.
I understand the nature of bigotry and those who excuse it.
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misanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 03:29 AM
Response to Original message
15. I guess decades of experience count for nothing?...
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 04:05 AM
Response to Original message
17. The so called "bashing" will only stop when the region stops sending ignorant fundies to Congress
Edited on Mon Jan-19-09 04:07 AM by depakid
and stops enacting fundamentist policies in its own states.

Until then- YOU ALL OWN those folks and the policies they've tried tirelessly (and sometimes succeeded in) hoisting onto everybody else- and people in saner regions will understandably scoff and have a laugh at your expense.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #17
37. Much like you yourself own the aggression and violence in Iraq, yes?
Much like you yourself own the aggression and violence in Iraq, yes? I mean, simply translate nation for state and bingo-- saner counties will mock you and have a laugh at your expense...
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #37
94. That's about right
In many ways, America's reputation is severely tarnished- and people abroad don't make too much distinction between the states (although the more informed do make some jokes about Deliverance, and all of that).

Yep- Bush and the Republicans' antics- people like Sarah Palin, make the entire country into something of a laughing stock and object of derision.

Same applies withing countries. Go around passing laws banning dildos- and poeple in saner regions are going to mock you.

As well they should.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #94
111. People will mock other people-- regardless of region or country
People will mock other people-- regardless of region or country. Reasons will always be found.

It's just another way for people to advertise a lack of class and dignity.
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Kalyke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #17
53. I don't own them - never voted for any of them.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #17
121. the South is rural
The "red state" nonsense is simple minded. The rural districts in the North are just as conservative, but they are balanced by the large industrial cities.

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Aristus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 04:12 AM
Response to Original message
18. When you guys ditch that fucking flag, then we'll talk.
Up North, if someone were to fly the Nazi Blood Flag or the flag of Fascist Italy, claiming "heritage" as the reason, they would be shouted down so fast it would make your head spin. But I see that goddamned slavery flag everywhere (even in the North, admittedly) and people shrug it off. "It's our heritage", they say. Nobody, and I mean, nobody flies the Southern Cross oblivous to the pain, anger and fury it will provoke.

BTW, I was born and raised in Texas. It's not like I don't know what I'm talking about.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 04:33 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. 'Generalization' is the hallmark of bigotry.
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Aristus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 04:45 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. Well, maybe you're right. If I see someone flying the slavery flag,
I'm going to assume he is a racist bigoted asshole even before I've had the chance to meet him and talk with him. So, yeah, I suppose that's prejudiced.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 04:47 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. "When you guys ditch that fucking flag, then we'll talk."
"So, yeah, I suppose that's prejudiced."
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #24
59. Um, some prejudice is good
I am prejudiced against people who have guns drawn on me. I assume they are trying to hurt me.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #59
78. And some is bad.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #78
83. true that
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #20
38. "Generalization" is also the basis of all cognition. nt
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #20
123. You just made a massive generalisation. Don't you realise that the world and human behaviour
can only be studied and understood in terms of generalisations. To renounce categorising of all kinds is lunacy.

Are you saying the the culture of Germany in WWII wasn't Nazi? Because there was only a small number of vocal dissidents, it's a fatuous generalisation? Or that to state that the terms of the Versailles peace-agreement after WWII were so punitive as to inevitably become intolerable, eventually, as was foreseen by leaders of vision such as Lloyd George, is a fatuous generalisation? An awful lot of our knowledge is based on generalisations. In fact, didn't a scientist called Heisenberg prove that even our knowledge of the phsyical world is statistical?

You should put yourself in the shoes of an African American seeing the Federalist flag, so cherished by the mentally deficient, because morally deficient, racist types down there? To excuse it on the grounds that it's their heritage just confirms that deficiency. Proud that some rich plantation owners got them into a civil war in which they were beaten like a drum. Only the mercy of the North, who were always fighting with one hand behind their backs, spared them from total annihilation. It's like being proud of being a Nazi? More losers' losers, who would have been wiped out (or enslaved?) but for the mercy of the conquerors.

According to Shelby Foote, a loyal Southerner, himself, it was the plantation-owners who were to blame for the Civil War. The ordinary Southern soldier was just fighting, because Northerners were invading land. Which, of course, is not to say that there would not have been a lot of murderous bigotry against the slaves at all levels of that society. But it was, apparently, mostly middle-class types, such as shopkeepers and local officals who were responsible for fomenting the lynchings.

To excuse such overt racism is inexcusable, and would make you the scorn of the rest of the world - who are pretty racist themselves. The lot of the African Americans right up to the Sixties beggared the belief of the rest of the world, and does to this day.


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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #18
35. Good!
You and your kind can just stay "Up North".
We already have enough Bigots in The South.
We don't need anymore.
Please don't come here.



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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #35
61. FTR Are you defending the Confederate Flag?
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #61
80. I could n't care less about a rag with colored spots.

I have witnessed the Rebel Flag flying in a suburb of Minneapolis alongside a UN Flag with a red circle and bar across it.
If anyone wants to make a public ass out of themselves, I defend their right to do so....even you.

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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #80
82. Just checking
The fact the rebel flag flys in MN should be evidence the flag is not about "Southern Pride" but instead racism na slavery
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #82
89. Exactly my point !
Thanks!
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #18
39. Just for the record,
I and my family & friends went to Pismo Beach a couple of years ago and some no-neck was driving around on the beach in his jacked-up 4WD with a HUGE Confederate flag waving from the back. The truck had California plates. It was a proud, proud moment for this native Californian. Not!

My husband and his family are all from the South (Mississippi & Alabama). They're an educated lot and according to them, only low-class people hold on to the old, bigoted beliefs.
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misanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #39
45. I've been in the South for over 40 years and your husband's account is wrong...
...It is everywhere here. EVERYWHERE.
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #45
49. Actually, I didn't assert that it was rare,
only that people who still hold on to the old beliefs are considered low class. I wouldn't know, as I've only been to the South 3 times in my life and wasn't there long enough to come to any conclusions. Being from CA, I did find it interesting that, at least in New Orleans (pre-Katrina), it seemed that all the African-Americans hung with only African-Americans, Caucasians only with Caucasians, and so on. I've lived in multi-cultural neighborhoods my entire life and I'm just not used to seeing the segregation, particularly of a self-imposed nature. :shrug:
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misanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #49
54. But those beliefs permeate the upper crust with the same frequency...
...It is just more "genteel."

And I agree with the self-segregation. I don't get it as it makes me uncomfortable.
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #18
40. I don't like that flag either,
but I also don't like being painted with the same brush as people who fly it, just because of where I live. And, not that it makes any difference, but I don't have the option to move right now, either.
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Kalyke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #18
56. This provokes pain, anger and fury?



That's the Southern Cross.

The flag to which you're referring is the Virginia Battle Flag (left), not to be confused with the Confederate Flag (right):


It would help if you knew some history.
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. Don't be obtuse
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Kalyke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #58
66. And that's the Mississippi state flag.
It incorporates the battle flag, not the Confederate flag and was adopted 200 years ago.

It's not the flag of the entire South.

What's so obtuse about that?
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #66
85. Perhaps I should say "Don't act a stupidly as the stereotypical Southerner."
Especially if you're asking not to be treated as such.
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Kalyke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #85
86. How about you learn what you're talking about before you call me obtuse.
Edited on Mon Jan-19-09 04:23 PM by Kalyke
I was making a point about the poster's assertion that we should "ditch the f***ing flag."

Telling the South to "ditch the flag" is kind of dumb since it's not recognized regionally as "our flag." Each state has its own flag and Mississippi's is but ONE state with a flag in the South. I have no more in common with most Mississippians than I do with most Idahoans.

I realize you're not the one who said you'd continue to be bigoted toward my region of the country until we "dumped the flag," but you're defending that statement, de facto. The point is that the South "dumped the flag" in 1865 at the end of the Civil War. That it's on ONE state flag isn't representative of the entire region.

The Battle Flag of Virginia has, rightfully or wrongly, been used to symbolize racism - or The Dukes of Hazzard or rednecks - but is no longer an official flag of anything.

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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #86
93. I apologize - you weren't being obtuse - you're being deliberately evasive.
Edited on Mon Jan-19-09 05:12 PM by baldguy
The fact is the national flag of the CSA and the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia both represent the same thing - the evil, racist legacy of the Confederacy. Refusing to recognize this is akin to arguing that there's a difference between Hitler's Luftwaffe and the Waffen Schutzstaffel. They might have had different rolls, but there is no meaningful difference between them.

The Confederate flag is a de facto symbol of the South - by the South's own collective choice. they've put it on their state flags, they display it in their govt buildings and display it in their homes. The fact that you deny that and pretend that it should make no difference is telling.

Aristus is correct - no community would tolerate the open display and honor to the flag of Nazi Germany or fascist Italy in America by any entity of the American govt. Few communities would allow such a display by private citizens either. Yet the Confederate flag is so honored, not only in the South but all over the country. It is invariably chosen by those who wish to display their racist, intolerant anti-American beliefs while hiding behind the canard of "Southern Heritage". In this case, 1865 isn't the date in question - it's 1956, and the South's response to the growing civil rights movement. The use & display of the Confederate flag is a direct affront to all Americans who believe in equality & justice.

So, ditch the fucking flag.
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Harry Monroe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #66
104. I live in Mississippi and I hate the state flag
I refuse to fly it EVER. BTW, the Mississippi State Flag was adopted in 1894. If it was adopted 200 years ago, it would have been adopted in 1809, 51 years BEFORE the Civil War began. Please get the facts straight about Mississippi's rag.
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Harry Monroe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #18
103. The "Southern Cross"??
So...The Australian flag is racist?? :wtf:

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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 04:36 AM
Response to Original message
21. Racism knows no phsyical boundaries, but there are pockets
of "acceptability" in places.. That fact cannot be denied.. there are still places where the "star&bars" are flown as an "in your face" gesture, and where older, bitter folks still cling to the "old ways", even though many of them probably have mixed race grandchildren :(

As the years pass, more and more of them die off, but some have managed to infect their own children, so it may take a lot longer to erase the stain , but each generation, it gets a little fainter..

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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 04:50 AM
Response to Reply #21
26. "pockets of "acceptability" in places.. "
Including here.

Racism is not limited to the "stars and bars," nor using the term "nigger," et al.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 04:47 AM
Response to Original message
23. Nice try.
:rofl:


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pnorman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 04:49 AM
Response to Original message
25. "...you've got 3 fingers pointing back at yourself... "
Just THREE? That applies only to those with opposable thumbs! As for the others? Perhaps we need a DU Poll on this.

pnorman
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melm00se Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
27. if you
think that the South is full of racists and bigots, do us all a favor and don't move/live here.

having lived both in the North and the South, there are rednecked, racist, inbreds everywhere, regardless of location, population density, culture or population diversity.

Those who look down their noses at the south are just as guilty of stereotyping as the racists that you deplore.

Bigotry can take many forms and "my area is better than that area" is one of them.



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Harry Monroe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #27
105. Thank you. Couldn't have said it better
I was born in Louisiana and now live in Mississippi. I spent 4 years of college in New York. I saw as much racism there as there is in the South. The South does not have a monopoly on ignorance and racism.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
28. And AZ has the biggest number of groups of various haters.
:puke:
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
31. I grew up in Georgia. We have plenty of racists, overt and covert.
I have lived in 6 states and 4 countries.

I've visited 48 states (I'm missing New Hampshire and Hawaii) and 23 countries.

I haven't seen much difference in any of 'em.

/anecdotal_evidence
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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
32. thank you Ghost!
My fellow southerner. :patriot:
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angrycarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
33. It's hard not to
I was born and raised in Alabama and I will be the first to admit that the place is an embarrassment. Every news story that comes out of here is ignorance embodied. Individually the people are mostly very nice but as a group southerners can be dumasses.

I have found that some of the most virulent racists are ex-cons. Our prisons are breeding some of the worst hate criminals anywhere. I do not have any figures to support it but I would be willing to bet that the states with the highest hate crime figures also have large prison populations.
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Ishoutandscream2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
34. Great post, and you are seeing the broad brush of southern bigots here
No matter what, their own bigotry will never change. They don't understand the battles we wage down here for justice and equality. They have it easy in their dark blue areas, and they find it easy to pass judgment on us and call us dumb and ignorant. They say we are still fighting the Civil War. We southerners on DU no longer are fighting it, but some of our northern brethren here sure seem to still be waging it.
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madmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
44. I grew up in Maryland, right on the border with West Virginia. The bigotry there
is appalling. It goes right along with, IMO ,the lower education standards and the lack of intellectual curiosity.I'm using my extended family and their associates as a base for my beliefs.I'm really glad I no longer live there (my parents moved out when I was 13) and was able to raise my children away from it.
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chemenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
47. Just remember, Pennsylvania is just Alabama sandwiched in
between Pittsburgh and Philadelphia.
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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. !!
:spray:
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
51. Every state has ignorant, prejudiced, racist, misogynist, homophobic, dominionist assholes,
it's just that most states don't let them run everything.


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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
52. While I agree with your point, the South has the worst Senators in
the history of the Universe. Pretty much every single positive thing I want our gov't to do is stopped by this (small) group of Senators. So until that changes I am not changing my opinion on this geographic area.
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Kalyke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #52
60. You do realize it's because we get no help from the national
Democratic Party. Howard Dean did more than most, but it's still not enough.

I can't even sit down and think about what Democrat would be able to win a statewide governor's race or a US senatorial race in Tennessee because there is simply no well-known Democrat out there.

And the reason for that is lack of funding to get the word out. I know we have Democrats in Tennessee - many of them - but the attention is all showered on Republicans.
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #60
88. Good point, Dem's need to support some strong players
in those areas. I would really like to see them more aggressive about that.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
55. Everybody knows that racism has many branch offices throughout the US...
just as everybody knows that the south is it's headquarters.
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Kalyke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #55
62. The headquarters moved to Idaho during the Clinton years.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #62
70. Nah - that's just their Northwest regional office.
:P
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Kalyke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #70
90. True story:
A racist organization moved their headquarters into my neighborhood in the early 1990s and left leaflets explaining their, um, position. Well, the idiots didn't seem to do much research when choosing a place to move because I happen to live in one of the few Democratic pockets of my very Republican town.

The folks in the neighborhood were OUTRAGED (and, I'll just say it, most of us are white - or were at that time - it's very mixed now with ALL types, not just blacks and/or whites). Some people found out where their headquarters were - it was just a house with few markings, if any - and, well 'reverse' vandalized it. Bricks through the windows with note that said, "Get out, racists" and the like. They left in a month or less.

Not that I condone said behavior :yoiks: but it was funny to see a white-bread Southern neighborhood of modest Middle Class means run out a "big bad" group of racists.
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #55
68. "just as everybody knows that the south is it's headquarters." - Oh really?
Tom Metzger, an Indiana native, formed his White Aryan Resistance in California and currently runs it from his base in Indiana where he resides.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

David Lane was born in Iowa and lived in Colorado, where he was an organizer for the Denver Chapter of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan before becoming the Colorado State Organizer for the Aryan Nations. He died in prison in Indiana in 2007.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

The origin of Aryan Nations is in the teachings of Wesley Swift, a significant figure in the early Christian Identity movement. Swift combined British Israelism, extreme antisemitism, and political militancy. He founded his own church in California in the mid-1940s, and he had a daily radio broadcast in California during the 1950s and 1960s. In 1957, the name of his church was changed to the Church of Jesus Christ-Christian, which is used today by Aryan Nations churches.<3>

From the 1970s until 2001, the headquarters of AN was in a 20-acre (81,000 m) compound at Hayden Lake, Idaho.<3> There were a number of state chapters, only loosely tied to the main organization. The group ran an annual World Congress of Aryan Nations at Hayden Lake for both AN adherents and similar groups.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_Nations

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wesley Swift (19131970) is considered by the FBI to have been the single most significant figure in the early years of the Christian Identity movement. He was born in New Jersey and moved to California. In 1946, he founded his own church in Lancaster, California. In the 1950s, he was Gerald L. K. Smith's West Coast representative of the Christian Nationalist Crusade.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Christian Nationalist Crusade was an antisemitic organization which operated out of P.O. Box D-4, St. Louis, Missouri, USA. Its founder was Gerald L. K. Smith. It sold and distributed, inter alia, The International Jew, and subscribed to the antisemitic views embodied in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion which it also published.

Smith founded this entity, in St. Louis, in 1942, with the purpose to "preserve America as a Christian nation being conscious of a highly organized campaign to substitute Jewish tradition for Christian tradition." Its purpose was also to oppose Communism, world government, and immigration. It also aimed to "fight mongrelization and all attempts to force the intermixture of the black and white races." It effectively was a political party, and it promoted antisemitic and racist causes, particularly in St. Louis from the 1940's through the 1950's. It engaged in publication and distribution of texts advocating its views, and had produced monthly magazine, called The Cross and the Flag.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Would you like to try again, this time using actual research as your basis?



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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #68
69. Thanks for posting interesting things that don't disagree with anything I said.
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #69
72. When did Indiana, Iowa, Idaho & California become part of the South?
That's where these movements were founded and headquartered, so of course it disagrees with your assertion that the South is the headquarters for all of the racism...

:hi:



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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #72
84. No, it doesn't disagree with what I actually said.
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #84
87. Do flying unicorns shit skittles in the Fantasy Land that you live in??
Yes, it *does* disagree with what you actually said. Here's your words, in case you forgot them:

BlooInBloo (1000+ posts) Mon Jan-19-09 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
55. Everybody knows that racism has many branch offices throughout the US...
just as everybody knows that the south is it's headquarters.


I just showed you where the headquarters are/were, and it wasn't in the South. You were proven wrong. Deal with it....

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Creideiki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
57. If I objectify southern men
because I love the accent, does that make me a South basher?
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #57
65. Depends on where you bash 'em :)
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
64. Nothing wrong with Atlanta, Raleigh/Durham, Athens, Miami, NoLA, ...you know...civilization
But rural south?

I don't feel safe in rural ANYWHERE!!!!

I've been to rural West Virginia before. Scary. Really scary. Almost as scary as rural Central Valley, CA.

But 'Lanta? The 'Triangle'? I'll go there anytime!
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
71. There are three kinds of lies
Edited on Mon Jan-19-09 03:06 PM by IWantAnyDem
Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics.

What's the relative hate crime incidence per capita in the cities you named?

Not saying that it's okay to bash the South. Just saying using straight numbers is a poor reflection of facts.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
73. The south has produced some great music.




In all fairness, though, you should admit that the consistent Red State electoral status does indicate something of a small problem.
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stuntcat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
74. I'm here to represent the South :)
Edited on Mon Jan-19-09 03:23 PM by stuntcat
Even though my state's responsible for Jessy Helmes I'll still always be proud of being from the beautiful south :loveya:
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
75. I deal with blatant racism every work day
in the pacific northwest: Oregon.

Racism isn't limited to the south.
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AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
81. Ghost is right. W. & Central PA has racial bigots (Westmoreland County, Greene County,
Bedford County...)and I think Appalachia, stretching from here down into TN, KY has the most. My views are just based on travels and sitting in bars and diners listening to people talk, so I could be missing the real story. For sure PA has their share in W. PA and Central PA.
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
96. Daaaaaaang!
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GentryDixon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
97. Check out Idaho & Oregon.
There are some scary extremists in these two states.
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misanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #97
100. Still, Portland is notable for its progressivism**nm
**
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GentryDixon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 06:52 AM
Response to Reply #100
110. Agree. My twin lives & works there.
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
98. Rural everywhere has the same issues
The rural north, much of the mid-west, and east are just as bad but with less minority populations to shit on. Like another poster said the alarming stuff is in places like Boston. Deep seeded and nasty racism in a place that should do much better.

I think it makes people feel good to bash the south because then they can pretend they are in someway better. The key is usually population density, The more spread out you are and the less exposure you have to people, the easier it is to dehumanize them. At least in the rural south, you might encounter someone of color and learn they are people too. Up north when you get away from the cities black, yellow, and brown may as well be blue, green, or ultra maroon and don't be a mixed couple (or person either) unless you love dirty looks, pointing, and whispers.

Crackers is crackers is crackers. Other regions are saved by having more cities and less people of color for crackers to bother in rural/outlying areas.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
99. Sorry, but you are in denial... and Denial is never going to Change Perception
I'm sure it angers you to see folks bash the south as racist, but until the South does something about it, people all around the World, never mind in the US are going to look at the south as a region of the states being tolerant toward bigotry.
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Ex Lurker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
101. Which states voted for McCain and which for Obama? End of discussion n/t
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #101
109. Pathetic.
When did Alaska join the Confederacy?
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #101
122. I guess Yankees aren't so smart after all
What you are describing is caused by the electoral college system.

Take Detroit out of Michigan, Chicago out of Illinois, Cleveland and Columbus out of Ohio, Milwaukee out of Wisconsin, Philly and Pittsburh out of PA, and those states would be red, too.
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blue_onyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #122
126. That's probably true for most states though
You could take Seattle out of Washington or Portland out of Oregon too. I bet if you took NYC out of New York that state would at least be a "purple state" if not a red state. It makes no sense for you to exclude the areas where most people actually live in making your argument. Is Michigan's or Illinois' or Wisconsin's results some how less valid/significant because the least populated areas voted for McCain?
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #126
127. sure it does
Edited on Wed Jan-21-09 12:00 AM by Two Americas
When state borders are drawn in such a way that they are mostly rural, then the state will go the way rural areas go. The cities in the North are Democratic because of the millions of people who migrated there from the South.

My point is that rural areas are not much different North or South, and that the South is more rural, hence more conservative.

I think people stare at those red state-blue state maps on MSM and get mesmerized. The whole country is purple, and you can see that on shaded county by county maps of the US.
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JackDragna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-09 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
102. I'm a southerner, and frankly, we deserve the scorn.
Edited on Mon Jan-19-09 10:48 PM by JackDragna
Whether one likes it or not, it is not socially acceptable for white people in Dixie to be Democrats. It is on the unfortunate tendency of my kinsmen to vote for regressive, draconian measures that Republican strength was built during the 80's and 90's. To this day, the South still has so many social problems, yet it points the finger at others for the problems. There's a reason Republicans used the "Southern Strategy" to win votes: we are deeply, deeply racist, and are only now reversing the trend. It's up to all of us in the South to continue to push for progress so that "blue" goes further than Virginia and North Carolina.
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October Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #102
114. I've seen more "stop bashing south" threads than I've seen actual bashing
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #114
118. Same here, seems fishy.
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mudesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
108. Your numbers are meaningless....
You need to list the per capita hate crimes and per capita hate groups, not the totals.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
117. I imagine that a lot pf people...
I imagine that a lot of people believe that the imaginary red and black lines on a map are de-facto presumptions of either guilt or innocence for all those living withn those imaginary lines.

It's a lot easier that way, serves up an easily identifiable enemy, and doesn't really require much thought-- so I can understand why people engage in it.
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Hugabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
128. The South deserves every bit of ridicule and contempt it gets
I've lived in the South for most my life. I have no problem calling it like I see it. There are still giant Confederate flags flying all over the South. Huge fundy mega-churches are everywhere. Racism and homophobia are still rampant down here. I'd say that the South's reputation is well deserved.
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