Was that a Miracle? NYC Plane crash.

[salinen]

According to all accounts, the fact that no people died is universally being called
"Miraculous" or "A Miracle". And I'll wager that the next potentially death defying
event will also be explained as "A Miracle".

As an Atheist, the constant intervention by God is nauseating. Why must all these
near tragedies be reported in a religious way? Using the born-again speak where
miracles are as common as ticks on an old hound.

Bleck!

[Beetwasher]

1. Not Unless The Pilot Is God

n/t

[JNelson6563]

16. Or maybe co-pilot

as I have seen claimed on bumper stickers. haha

Julie

[A HERETIC I AM]

44. One of my favorite Bumper Stickers;

One I'd like to see;
If God is your Co-Pilot, how come you never let him land the plane?

[Rhiannon12866]

129. That was my first thought, LOL.

"God Is My Co-Pilot" (1945) Dennis Morgan, Raymond Massey. ;)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0037746/

[uppityperson]

2. No, it was a combination of good training and good luck

Or did you mean was the fact those geese crashed a plane a miracle?

[FiveGoodMen]

3. .

:applause:

[Ian David]

4. The pilots never got on the plane. It took off and landed all by itself.

THAT would be a miracle.

If the passengers all got out and WALKED TO SHORE on top of the water, without needing ferry boats, THAT would be a miracle.

[drm604]

5. A miracle would have been the geese dematerializng before they hit the engines. n/t

[Ian David]

9. gOd was slow. The geese dematerialized right AFTER they hit the plane.

Well, liquefied, anyway.

[Stuart G]

17. It is quite a coincidence that the pilot was able to land the plane in water..

If not, say the thing had to land on land..well, perhaps another outcome..

[TrogL]

51. Pilots are trained in water landings

He could also have attempted to land on a level stretch of ground eg. a freeway, Central Park

No coincidence there.

[undeterred]

58. They may be trained but I doubt they get any real practice.

Planes take a long time to dry out. Damn those suicide flier Canadian Geese. :hide:

[awoke_in_2003]

109. That is what...

they make flight simulators for :)

[leftynyc]

146. He couldn't land in Central Park

Too many buildings to crash into along the way.

[Graybeard]

24. All praise to the pilot and ferry boats.

Pilot set down plane, ferry boat captains went to scene within minutes. This was people doing their jobs with skill and courage. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Demoiselle]

43. Exactly.It reinforces my faith in.....

really well-trained pilots. Also basic human reflexive help-each-other instinct. I've just heard a report from an eye witness (Manhattan high rise) who watched the plane come down and saw, as well,
a ferry turn on a dime almost instantly to get to the plane.
Now whether we want to attribute any of this fine human skill and decency to Divine Providence is entirely a matter of personal choice.
I, for one, am simply very very thankful for all concerned. And that's enough of a happy glow for me.

[bdamomma]

92. the pilots and ferry boat captains were very skilled and competent.

:hi: graybeard!!!

[Stuart G]

6. Call it what you want...but..few survive take off crashes..but it happened before..here is the link

http://www.twaflight843.com /


1992 Flight 843.....

[onehandle]

7. Prove it wasn't a miracle.

I don't think it was, but I cannot say it wasn't.

C'mon. Prove it.

[Ian David]

10. If the plane landed by miracle, then the pilots did it the hard way. n/t

[salinen]

14. No sweat,

All miracles include a soundtrack by Enya.

[onehandle]

18. LOL! nt

[lunatica]

45. I'm listening to Enya right now! I must be a miracle!

I feel pretty normal, but no one has ever said how being a miracle feels so I can't tell.

[RedCappedBandit]

22. Prove that I'm not God

Go ahead.

[Ian David]

26. RedCapped, I have met god. I have worked with god. god was a friend of mine. And YOU are no god. n/t

[prostock69]

67. God was a friend of yours? Did you have a falling out? lol. n/t

[SidneyCarton]

82. Well, if you agree with Nietsche...

God is dead.

:hide:

[salinen]

29. "cough cough"

the darwin fish is a dead giveaway Mr. God.

[RedCappedBandit]

111. Ah crap. Ya got me.

[onehandle]

31. Are you a flying spaghetti monster?

If so, then I believe that you could be.

Of course, so could a human.

Or a rock.

Nope. Can't prove it.

[Rebubula]

140. God

I hope that someday, it can be proved that god does exist.

That bastard has a lot of shit to answer for....

[Sal Minella]

28. Give me a couple minutes -- I'm just finishing up proving that George W. Bush has "kept us safe"

for the past seven years. Considering all the new terrorists the Cheney-Rumsfeld-Rice-Bush regime has created during that time, this is pretty much a freeging miracle, ackshully.

[prostock69]

63. Actually, the burden of proof is on those claiming IT IS a miracle

The definition of a miracle is an event contrary to the laws of nature that is attributed to a supernatural cause.

If anyone can show evidence that the "laws of nature" were broken in this plane crash that allowed everyone to survive on board, then I will give credit to your god.

[onehandle]

84. What God is that?

Did you even read my post?

[Zhade]

93. Um, it's virtually impossible to prove a negative outside of math.

Besides, the burden of proof is on those asserting that it's a miracle (if the meaning is "supernatural event aided by god/s"), not those who don't buy into such nonsense.

[onehandle]

97. Nope. It's equal.

You think it's it's nonsense. They think it's a miracle.

One of you is wrong and there is no way to tell.

[Zhade]

116. No, they're not equal. One asserts without evidence that something supernatural happened.

The rational side says "no evidence, thus no reason to conclude anything supernatural happened."

Not even CLOSE to equal.

[Obamanaut]

95. OK. It was a divinely inspired test of the pilot's skill by preordaining

a flock of fowl to throw themselves into the maw of the airborne leviathan. And the pilot passed the test, which was also preordained so it wasn't really a test after all. And since the outcome was known (writ in the heavenly book) it wasn't a miracle.

Or - a really good pilot.

[mudesi]

101. NOTHING physically impossible happened

Nothing.

Where, exactly, was the miracle?

[onehandle]

103. Looked like a good water landing to me.

Did I say it was a miracle?

DUers really need to read before they respond.

[Stellabella]

130. A miracle violates the laws of nature.

What law did that water landing violate?

[onehandle]

149. Violating the "laws of nature" is only one definition of "miracle."

Others are "divine intervention," and "an extraordinary event."

And I never said that it was a miracle.

[Stellabella]

161. It's the only provable definition of a miracle.

And you said 'I cannot say it was not a miracle'.

[ananda]

8. From what I read, it was the pilot who saved them.

The way he landed the plane saved the lives.

[Ian David]

15. Coincidentally, nobody ever saw the pilot before this morning, and nobody knows who he is.

I just made that up.



Find it on Snopes.com a year from now, and remember me.


Oh!

I have a better one!


The pilot credited with landing the plane actually died in a crash exactly six years ago to this day.

A grateful passenger visited the pilots grave this afternoon... and there was a flight jacket on the headstone!

[ecstatic]

34. S/he could only do so much. Luck played just as big a role

in their fate as well.

[closeupready]

11. "God's Grace" "A Miracle over Manhattan", lol

:rofl: :puke:

[malaise]

12. See my thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4835792&mesg_id=4835792

[beam me up scottie]

13. No, the pilot was fucking amazing.

Who needs "miracles" when reality blows your mind?

[Ian David]

Why did he waste all that money on pilot school, when all he really needed to do was go to church?nt

[beam me up scottie]

37. Stupid infidels.

Good thing he was able to get right with Dog before this happened.

[prostock69]

69. Some people don't like reality and prefer to live in a fantasy world. n/t

[Hawkowl]

19. Not training so much

We rarely, if ever, practice ditching in a simulator or even review in a classroom setting. The most we do is a little review reading in manuals.

Mostly, 90% I'd say, was absolute skill. Skill in flying. Skill in decision making with a cool head. 10% luck. Losing BOTH your engines at 3000 feet is not something we train for and it certainly isn't lucky.

And miraculous? Only if the plane is invisibly hoisted from the water and set on dry land.

[Greyhound]

20. Sure, the miracle of mass delusion. How about some brilliant piloting? n/t

[Ghost in the Machine]

21. Does a miracle need to have devine intervention to be a miracle?

:shrug:

[Zhade]

94. In the supernatural sense, yes -- which is why no miracles of that sort have ever been proven.

Now, in the everyday sense of "a lucky outcome", nope.

But this was neither. This was skill.

[JNelson6563]

23. But wouldn't it have been the same god that sent the flock of geese

onto the scene which caused the problem to begin with?

Ah the circular reasoning of believers. I never cease to marvel at it.

Julie

[Greyhound]

33. That's it, it was an evil. Mere mortals circumventing the Will of God.

Clearly the pilots, crew and all the passengers must be executed. (Their families too, just to be sure)

[annabanana]

85. If God had meant us to fly . . . . . .

etc

[salinen]

35. It pretty obvious

that those Geese's parents are to blame.

[Ian David]

39. god sent the geese because he made a bet with Satan that the pilot could land the plane. n/t

[prostock69]

71. Lol! funny n/t

[rucky]

25. Photo:

[stuntcat]

137. wow!

those people are so lucky.

[Ioo]

27. Yes it was a miracle, all hail the sky farie... the Pilot, did nothing but train..

I mean, train shmane

[guitar man]

30. no

It was a sweet job of ditching by a skilled pilot combined with luck that the wind/water conditions appeared to be very favorable.

[ecstatic]

32. A miracle doesn't necessarily have to be a Godly intervention

It just means that they are extremely lucky. Nobody expects to survive a plane crash. I'm sure they were all shocked to still be present after impact.

[immoderate]

36. You are right. I looked it up.

--IMM

[Critters2]

90. You had to look up the definition of "miracle"? Seriously?

I hope you're not a native English speaker.

[immoderate]

139. No, I didn't "have to" look it up.

I have a good dictionary installed on my computer. It's a click away. I use it all the time.

Since most arguments are over the meaning of words, I find it useful. Notice how many people on this thread think that miracle means divine action, or something supernatural. They have it wrong. How does it hurt to keep a dictionary handy?

You don't want me to be a native English speaker? :P

--IMM

[beam me up scottie]

66. You're right, of course, but many people give God credit for miracles.

That would also mean God sent those geese too...

[aquart]

38. A miracle is anything that happens when you need it to happen.

Because it doesn't have to.

[uppityperson]

40. That is an insult to the pilot and crew.

It was their training, actions and, yes, luck, that got everyone out.

[Stevenmarc]

41. It's only a miracle if it preempts Bush tonight

[malaise]

46. Upstaged by great pilots, crew

and boots on the ground - and of course some Canadian geese. :rofl:

[Gwendolyn]

42. Anyone who flies into and/or out of LaGaurdia takes one's life in hand.

The runway is two inches long, and one inch wide. Water all around. Plus 18 million planes attempting to negotiate the idocy at the same time. It's incredibly scary to either leave or enter from there. The geese have long been a prob, in the same sense that deer are. They interfere with human living and consumption.

[ecstatic]

50. Yeah. I saw a report on all the near runway collisions.

It seems as though little or nothing is being done to make the airport safer.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

47. I believe, and I could be wrong, that if God is responsible for

minimal damage and casualties when something like this happens.... then he needs to be given responsibility for when there isn't a single survivor. Superstitions annoy me.

[endarkenment]

48. So the sky-being threw the plane into the puddle and then

spared all the people on the plane in order to demonstrate the sky-being's power?

What a sick puppy the sky-being is.

Or is it that the omniscient-one didn't know that the planes was going into the drink? How could that be?

[dysfunctional press]

49. had the passengers gotten out and walked on water to the shore...

THAT would have been a miracle.

[LaPera]

52. All the other plane crashes in the history of aviation God wanted to let them all crash & die?

But this one time, God decided he was going to intervene and crash land the plane into a cold river, as a warning and show of his power?...I see!

[Mind_your_head]

53. Great Pilot!

(Thank you God for training this pilot so well......)

edit: typo

[ljm2002]

54. According to my dictionary...

..."miracle" can also mean any amazing or wonderful occurrence.

Now if it's presented unambiguously as a divine miracle -- especially in a news context -- then I can see your point. Otherwise, I'd just accept that this was indeed an amazing and wonderful event, and leave it at that.

Also, if the religious choose to believe it's a miracle, especially in the moment, when let's face it, all of tend to ooh and aah, then I think a little tolerance would be in order. Until and unless they start shoving it, like if someone were to say, "See, that proves that God exists" or worse, if they tried to use it to dis non-believers (or those of different beliefs). That's a different story. But just saying "It's a miracle!" -- not so much, IMO.

[onenote]

64. well stated.

[Critters2]

91. Of course. A miracle is something that seems to defy nature.

Not necessarily anything to do with God. I can't believe this needs to be explained.

[Zhade]

96. Don't you think this world already tolerates far too much superstitious nonsense?

NT!

[malaise]

55. Here we go

Miracle on the Hudson - :puke:
Spare us Bloomberg and Shuster.

[salinen]

56. Wanna bet

Kirk Cameron will be cast as the pilot?

[malaise]

59. LOL

Actually it was the governor not Bloomberg.

[Skittles]

57. the santimonious use any excuse to promote their beliefs

and yes, it is indeed nauseating

[KittyWampus]

65. the irony is especially thick on your response. Look up the word miracle. But any excuse to start

a thread and trash religion.

[Skittles]

75. LOL

"an extraordinary event manifesting divine intervention in human affairs"

THAT is the meaning inferred on the news - and the OP specifically mentioned GOD - so f*** off

[Zhade]

98. Oh, go promote ID (infinite dumbassery) somewhere.

Sheesh. Skittles' post HAD no beliefs in it.

[spanone]

60. a well trained pilot who kept his head in the heat of disaster

[prostock69]

61. I agree with you. It's getting tiresome.

There is a scientific and rational explanation/reason for why the plane landed in the drink and nobody got killed. Giving credit to a being that has NEVER been proven to exist outside of a 2,800 year old book written by ignorant men/women who believed in gods for what happened in their lives because they had NO UNDERSTANDING about the laws of nature, physics, astronomy, medicine, and science, is not only ridiculous but tiresome. Those of us who don't live in the religious fantasy world of gods, angels, saints, devils and demons shake our heads with amazement on how people can turn off their logical minds and praise their god for this "miracle". This takes the credit away from the pilot, who trained for this type of event his whole career.

This is no different than the Pope John Paul II after being critically wounded by a gunman that resulted in a 5 hour life-saving surgery, giving the credit to Our Lady of Fatima for keeping him alive. It wasn't the surgical staff, but Lady Fatima. Not only is this statement ridiculous but delusional.

By the way, the definition of a miracle is an event contrary to the laws of nature that is attributed to a supernatural cause.

If someone can prove to me the "laws of nature" were broken in this plane crash that allowed everyone to survive on board, then I will give credit to your god.

[salinen]

70. Well done.

[SammyWinstonJack]

152. !

:applause: :thumbsup:

[onenote]

62. who gives a rats ass what they call it? what matters is that the people on the plane survived

something that rarely happens in circumstances such as these. We should all be thankful for that and if some want to direct their thanks to some non-human source (as well as the pilot, who clearly has earned everyone's thanks), then big fuckin' deal.

[malaise]

76. I give a rat's ass

The competent skilled pilots, the flight crew, the ferry crew and emergency services deserve full credit for this one. The pilots' judgment is the only reason everyone survived. What's more he walked that plane twice to check that everyone had deplaned.

We must learn to give credit where credit is due and stop the unscientific rants. Human beings pulled this off - give them their due.

Miracle my ass - so why did the geese hit the plane - did their god arrange that too? No birds fly and aircraft fly so accidents will happen.

[prostock69]

80. And so do I. Very well said. n/t

[Zhade]

105. Damn straight!

NT!

[Zhade]

104. I do. But we already know you don't give a shit what we atheists think.

NT!

[bklyncowgirl]

68. I don't know and you don't know either.

Terrific work by the pilot. The same goes for the rest of the plane crew and the New York Emergency Services people not to mention the Ferry and Circle Line crews who got everyone off the plane and to safety.

Incredible luck that the pilot was able to bring the plane down on one of the busiest waterways in the country without taking out one of the many vessels sailing around the Hudson at that time and that the wind conditions were right for this sort of landing.

Was it luck or was it a miracle or are they one and the same?

[Canuckistanian]

72. All those passengers were touched by His Noodly Appendage

The worst that could happen to them are the marinara stains on their clothes.

[Tesha]

73. Just remember: the same god that saved those passengers in this miracle placed those geese...

...in front of the plane. That god seems to just like excitement.

Tesha

[salinen]

79. It has now been confirmed

Geese are Satanic.

[treestar]

74. What is scary is that a flock of birds could cause a crash

This somehow does not help me with my fear of flying.

Do birds show up on radar?

[Tesha]

83. Big crowds of them do. These apparently did. (NT)

[ecstatic]

100. Many people are hearing about "bird strikes" for the first time

I heard about it a year or so ago. I'm just glad it's getting more attention now and airlines will take the appropriate precautions. :scared:

[treestar]

154. I heard something on the news last night about precautions that

the airports do - felt a little better!

Just seems like birds should not be strong enough to take a plane down. But a flock must be physically a lot of bird.

Maybe this is their protest at human invasion of their space!

[Fla Dem]

77. While miracle can have religious connotations, it can also be used

in a secular manner: "One that excites admiring awe" I am in admiring awe of the skill of the pilot and that there was no loss of life. Truly a miracle.

[dkofos]

78. I see it as a pilot doing his job.

[SidneyCarton]

81. So look at it this way.

A miraculous event is an event that defies the odds, is amazing, shocking or sometimes seemingly inexplicable. It's part of the lexicon, and the lexicon of the english language has been shaped by Christianity for at least 1300 years, you will not be able to excise the words from the language, so you may as well adapt them to your particular usage.

[Zomby Woof]

86. I thought god was busy

Winning football games, but indifferently watching helpless children die of diseases in Africa. Very selective with his interventions. :crazy:

[pokerfan]

134. Naw, it was a Thursday

Nothing going on except some basketball and hockey. God knows that the Championships are Sunday. This was just a little mid-week entertainment for Him.

[skepticscott]

87. Not only is it an insult to the pilot

to suggest that this was a "miracle", as opposed to the result of training, skill, dedication and cool-headedness in a crisis, but it's also an insult to the crew who got everyone off (despite undoubted cynicism after delivering yet another in a long line of ignored safety briefings), and to all the people who rushed to the rescue in dangerous conditions. Not only that, but it's an insult to all of the people who fought hard for airline safety regulations, and to the people who built the plane well enough to survive the crash in one piece.

A "miracle"? That would have been if some unseen hand had stopped the plane from crashing into the water at the last minute and carried it safely to dry land. Funny, but that sort of miracle never seems to happen Even if it did, the media would probably call it a hoax.

[cherokeeprogressive]

102. Pilot to Reporter: "It looked like it was going to be bad. So I said "God, help me out here".

In a completely hypothetical situation, who would that statement have insulted?

[Zhade]

106. Any rational person's intelligence, for starters.

NT!

[skepticscott]

110. Ask me that

after we see whether, in your hypothetical situation, the plane crashes and everyone dies in a ball of fire because the pilot was sitting there waiting for god to help him.

[pokerfan]

135. reminds me of a story

A preacher once drove by a farm, and was deeply impressed with its beauty – the shaded lawns, well cultivated crops and a beautiful home. The barns were clean and there was a well-built fence. Just as the preacher was admiring the farm, the farmer came by.

The preacher said to him excitedly, "God has certainly blessed you with a beautiful farm."

The farmer replied, "Yeah, but you should have seen it when he had it all to himself."

[nolabear]

88. Oh Come on...

I yell "Oh God!" when I--well, you know, but I'm not professing a belief in a Supreme Diety. Saying something is a miracle is an expression of something different for each expressor. It can mean awe, how much the event is at the edges of believability, even in effect "I'm incredibly shocked and thankful." Sure, believers will attach it to whatever they believe in, but I've called many a thing miraculous, and I don't believe in the Big Daddy in the Sky either.

[Zhade]

89. No evidence miracles have ever happened, so -- no.

This was pilot skill.

[onehandle]

99. No evidence that miracles have never happened.

It appears to me that it was pilot skill.

But neither you, nor me, know for sure.

[Zhade]

107. Once again, virtually impossible to prove a negative.

But since no miracle has ever been proven, a reasonable conclusion to draw is no miracles have ever happened.

[onehandle]

108. "virtually impossible" "reasonable conclusion"

Then we're agreed.

[Zhade]

117. We're agreed there's no evidence that anything supernatural happened...

...and that the reasonable conclusion to draw is that, lacking such evidence, nothing supernatural happened?

Awesome! So why are you arguing with me?

[onehandle]

147. A "reasonable conclusion" includes doubt.

If you are positive that there was no miracle, then simply say:

"I, Zhade, am absolutely positive that there was no miracle involved in the circumstances of the water landing of US Airways flight 1549."

[tridim]

112. It was a one in 'how ever many plane crashes there have been in history' stroke of luck

That and a good pilot.

[onenote]

113. so when the AA cab driver I was talking to referred to Obama's election as a "miracle"

(and later that referred to the fact that his (the cabbie) mother had lived to see it as a "miracle" should I have gotten all up in his face about it?

[donco6]

114. So, God hated all the people on these other planes?

1921
Aug. 24, England: British dirigible AR-2 broke in two on trial trip near Hull; 62 died.
1925
Sept. 3, Caldwell, Ohio: U.S. dirigible Shenandoah broke apart; 14 dead.
1930
Oct. 5, Beauvais, France: British dirigible R 101 crashed, killing 47.
1933
April 4, N.J.: U.S. dirigible Akron crashed; 73 died.
1937
May 6, Lakehurst, N.J.: German zeppelin Hindenburg destroyed by fire at tower mooring; 36 killed.
1945
July 28, New York City: U.S. Army bomber B-25 crashed into Empire State Building; 13 dead.
1953
June 18, near Tokyo: Crash of U.S. Air Force C-124 Globemaster killed 129 servicemen.
1956
June 30, Grand Canyon, Ariz.: TWA Super Constellation and United Airlines DC-7 collided over the Painted Desert, killing a total of 128 passengers and crew from both aircraft.
1960
Dec. 16, New York City: United DC-8 and Trans World Super Constellation collided and crashed, killing 134 in air and on ground.
1961
Feb. 15, nr. Brussels, Belgium: 72 on board and farmer on ground killed in crash of Sabena plane; U.S. figure skating team wiped out.
1962
March 4, Douala, Cameroon: Trans-African DC-7 crashed on takeoff, killing all 111 people aboard.
June 3, Paris: Chartered Air France Boeing 707 crashed after takeoff at Orly Airport, killing 130.
June 22, Grande-Teree Island, Guadeloupe: Air France Boeing 707 crashed, killing all 113 aboard.
1963
Nov. 29, Montreal: Trans-Canada Airlines DC-8F crashed after taking off. All 118 aboard died.
1965
May 20, Cairo: Pakistan International Airways 707 crashed on landing at airport; 124 killed.
1966
Jan. 24, Mont Blanc: Air India Boeing 707 crashed into a mountain in a fog; 117 dead.
Feb. 4, Tokyo: All-Nippon 727 jet crashed into Tokyo Bay as it approached airport, killing all 133 aboard.
March 5, near Gotemba City, Japan: BOAC Boeing 707 broke apart in flight and crashed into Mount Fuji; 124 dead.
Dec. 24, Binh Thai, South Vietnam: crash of military-chartered CL-44 into village killed 129.
1967
April 20, Nicosia, Cyprus: Chartered Swiss Globe Britannia Turboprop crashed while landing, killing 126.
1970
Feb. 15, Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic: Dominican DC-9 plunged into Caribbean on takeoff; 102 dead.
July 3, near Barcelona, Spain: British charter Dan-Air Comet jet crashed into the sea while coming in for a landing at Barcelona; 112 dead.
July 5, Toronto: Air Canada DC-8 crashed on landing approach; 109 dead.
Nov. 14, Huntington, W.Va.: Chartered Southern Airways DC-9 crashed and burned on approach to Tri-State Airport; 75 dead, including entire Marshall University football team.
1971
July 30, Morioka, Japan: Japanese Boeing 727 and F-86 fighter collided in midair; 162 died.
Sept. 4, near Juneau, Alaska: Alaskan Airlines Boeing 727 crashed into Chilkoot Mountains; 109 killed.
1972
May 5, Palermo, Sicily: Alitalia DC-8 hit mountain, killing 115.
June 18, London: BEA Trident jetliner crashed after takeoff from Heathrow Airport. All 118 aboard were killed.
Aug. 14, East Berlin, East Germany: Soviet-built East German Ilyushin Il-62 plane crashed, killing 156.
Oct. 13, Moscow, Russia: Aeroflot Ilyushin IL-14 crashed during landing due to pilot fatigue and 176 people perish.
Dec. 3, Santa Cruz de Tenerife, Canary Islands: Spanish charter jet Convair 990-A jet carrying West German tourists crashed on takeoff; all 155 aboard killed.
Dec. 30, Miami, Fla.: Eastern Airlines Lockheed 1011 TriStar jumbo jet, Flight 401, crashed into Everglades; 101 killed, 75 survived.
1973
Jan. 22, Kano, Nigeria: 171 Nigerian Muslims returning from Mecca and 5 crewmen died in crash.

Feb. 21, Sinai: civilian Libyan Arab Airlines Boeing 727 shot down by Israeli fighters after it had strayed off course; 108 died, 5 survived. Officials claimed that the pilot had ignored fighters' warnings to land.
April 10, Hochwald, Switzerland: British airliner carrying tourists to Swiss fair crashed in blizzard; 106 dead.
July 11, Paris: Boeing 707 of Varig Airlines, en route to Rio de Janeiro, crashed near airport, killing 122 of 134 passengers.
1974
March 3, Paris: Turkish DC-10 jumbo jet crashed in forest shortly after takeoff; all 346 killed.

Dec. 4, Colombo, Sri Lanka: Dutch DC-8 carrying Muslims to Mecca killed all 191 when it crashed on landing approach.
1975
April 4, nr. Saigon, Vietnam: Air Force Galaxy C-5A crashed after takeoff, killing 172, mostly Vietnamese children.

Aug. 3, Agadir, Morocco: chartered Boeing 707, returning Moroccan workers home after vacation in France, plunged into mountainside; all 188 killed.
1976
Sept. 10, Zagreb, Yugoslavia: midair collision between British Airways Trident and Yugoslav charter DC-9 fatal to all 176 people aboard.
Sept. 19, Karatepe, Turkey: Turkish Airlines 727 crashes into mountainous terrain killing 154 people.
1977
March 27, Santa Cruz de Tenerife, Canary Islands: Pan American and KLM Boeing 747s collided on runway. All 249 on KLM plane and 333 of 394 aboard Pan Am jet killed. Total of 582 is highest for any type of aviation disaster.
1978
Jan. 1, Bombay: Air India 747 with 213 aboard exploded and plunged into sea minutes after takeoff.
Sept. 25, San Diego, Calif.: Pacific Southwest plane collided in midair with Cessna. All 135 on airliner, 2 in Cessna, and 7 on ground killed for total of 144.

Nov. 15, Colombo, Sri Lanka: chartered Icelandic Airlines DC-8, carrying 249 Muslim pilgrims from Mecca, crashed in thunderstorm during landing approach; 183 killed.
1979
May 25, Chicago: American Airlines DC-10 lost left engine upon takeoff and crashed seconds later, killing all 272 people aboard and 3 on the ground in worst U.S. air disaster.
Nov. 26, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia: Pakistan International Airlines 707 carrying pilgrims returning from Mecca crashed on takeoff; all 156 aboard killed.
Nov. 28, Mt. Erebus, Antarctica: Air New Zealand DC-10 crashed on sightseeing flight; 257 killed.
1980
Aug. 19, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: all 301 aboard Saudi Arabian jet killed when burning plane made safe landing but passengers were unable to escape.
1981
Dec. 1, Ajaccio, Corsica: Yugoslav DC-9 Super 80 carrying tourists crashed into mountain on landing approach, killing all 178 aboard.
1983
June 28, near Cuenca, Ecuador: Ecuadorian jetliner crashed in mountains, killing 119.
Aug. 30, nr. island of Sakhalin off Siberia: Korean Air Lines Boeing 747 shot down by Soviet fighter after it strayed off course into Soviet airspace. All 269 aboard killed. Secret Soviet documents released in Oct. 1992 reveal that the plane was flying a straight course for two hours with its navigational lights on and did not take evasive action. Crew was unaware of its location and never saw the Soviet fighter that downed them. The Soviet fighter did not give a warning by firing tracer bullets as originally claimed.
Nov. 27, Madrid: Colombian Avianca Boeing 747 crashed near Mejorada del Campó Airport, killing 181 people aboard. Eleven people survived.
1985
June 23, Atlantic Ocean: Air India 747 exploded over the ocean killing 329. The probable cause was a Sikh terrorist bomb.
Aug. 12, Japan: Japan Air Lines Boeing 747 crashed into a mountain, killing 520 of the 524 aboard. Highest death toll in a single-plane crash in aviation history.
Dec. 12, Gander, Newfoundland: a chartered Arrow Air DC-8 bringing American soldiers home for Christmas crashed on takeoff. All 256 aboard died.
1987
May 9, Poland: Polish airliner Ilyushin 62M, on charter flight to N.Y., crashed after takeoff from Warsaw, killing 183.
Aug. 16, Romulus, Mich.: Northwest Airlines McDonnell Douglas MD-80 crashed into a highway shortly after takeoff from Detroit Metropolitan Airport, killing 156 (including 2 on the ground). Girl, 4, only survivor.
Nov. 26, south of Mauritius: South African Airways Boeing 747 went down in rough seas; 160 died.
Nov. 29, Burma: Korean Air Boeing 747 jetliner exploded from bomb planted by North Korean agents and crashed into sea, killing all 115 aboard.
1988
July 3, Persian Gulf: U.S. Navy cruiser Vincennes shot down Iran Air Airbus A-300 after mistaking it for an attacking jet fighter; 290 killed.
Aug. 28, Ramstein Air Force Base, West Germany: 3 jets from Italian Air Force acrobatic team collided in midair during air show and crashed, killing 70 people, including the pilots and spectators on the ground.
Dec. 21, Lockerbie, Scotland: N.Y.-bound Pan-Am Boeing 747 exploded in flight from a terrorist bomb and crashed into Scottish village, killing all 259 aboard and 11 on the ground. See Terrorist Attacks.
1989
June 7, Paramaribo, Suriname: a Surinam Airways DC-8 carrying 174 passengers crashed into the jungle while making a third attempt to land in a thick fog, killing 168 aboard.
July 19, Sioux City, Iowa: United Airlines DC-10 crashed during an emergency landing. Out of a total of 296 aboard, 111 were killed, 172 were injured, and 13 escaped unharmed.
1991
May 26, nr. Bangkok, Thailand: Austrian Lauda Air Boeing 767, en route to Vienna, crashed into jungle hilltop shortly after takeoff from Bangkok airport, killing all 223 aboard. Thailand's worst air disaster.
July 11, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia: Canadian-chartered DC-8 carrying pilgrims returning to Nigeria crashed after takeoff, killing 261 people.
1994
Jan. 3, Irkutsk, Russia: Russian Tupolev-154 crashes after taking off, killing all 124 people.
April 14, northern Iraq: two American F-15C fighter aircraft mistook two U.S. Army blackhawk helicopters for Russian-made Iraqi MI-24 helicopters and shot them down over no-fly zone, killing all 26 on board.
April 26, Nagoya, Japan: China Airlines Airbus A-300 from Taiwan crash-landed and exploded on the tarmac. Only 7 of the 271 passengers aboard survived.
June 6, Xian, China: China Northwest Airlines Tupolev-154 crashed 10 minutes after takeoff, killing all 160 aboard.
Sept. 8, nr. Aliquippa, Pa.: USAir Boeing 737 crashed into a ravine shortly before it was supposed to land at Pittsburgh International Airport. All 132 aboard were killed.
1995
Dec. 20, nr. Cali, Colombia: 160 people killed when American Airlines Boeing 757 crashed in Andean Mountains.
1996
Jan. 8, Kinshasa, Zaire: Russian-built Antonov-32 cargo plane crashed after takeoff from Kinshasa into the center of the city, killing over 350 people and injuring at least 470.
Feb. 6, off coast of Puerto Plata, Dominican Republic: a Birgenair Boeing 757 en route to Germany, chartered by Dominican Alas Nacionales. crashed into Atlantic Ocean after takeoff, killing 189.
Feb. 29, near Arequipa, Peru: Faucett Airline Boeing 737 crashed into mountain as it prepared to land. All 117 passengers and crew were killed.
May 11, Everglades, Fla.: ValuJet DC-9 went down in swamp, killing 110. Cargo fire caused by oxygen generators missing safety caps.
July 17, off coast of Long Island, N.Y.: TWA Boeing 747-100, Flight 800, bound for Paris from N.Y., exploded over waters of eastern L.I. and crashed into Atlantic Ocean, killing all 230 aboard.
Aug. 29, Svalbard, Norway: A Tu-154, taking miners and their families to a Russian mining settlement on Spitsbergen, crashed into a mountaintop, killing a 141 on board, including 29 children.
Nov. 12, nr. New Delhi, India: shortly after takeoff, Saudi Arabian Airlines Boeing 747 collided in midair with Kazak Airlines Ilyushin 76 approaching the New Delhi airport. All 349 passengers and crew were killed; the world's worst midair collision.
1997
Aug. 6, Guam: Korean Air Boeing 747-300 from Seoul crashed into jungle near Agana International Airport, killing 228 people; 26 survived.
Sept. 26, nr. northern Indonesia: Indonesian Garuda Airlines A-300 Airbus jetliner crashed while approaching Medan Airport, Sumatra, killing all 234 people aboard.
1998
Feb. 2, Mindanao, Philippines: Cebu Pacific Air DC-9 crashed into a mountain; 104 dead.
Feb. 3, Mt. Cermis, Italy: low-flying U.S. Marine surveillance jet on training flight accidentally cut ski-lift cable-car line, causing all 20 people aboard to fall some 260 ft to their deaths.
Feb. 16, Taipei, Taiwan: China Airlines Airbus A-300 jumbo jet crashed while trying to land in fog at Chiang Kai-shek International Airport, killing all 196 aboard and at least 6 people on the ground.
Sept. 2, off Nova Scotia, Canada: Swissair flight from N.Y. to Geneva crashed off Canadian coast, killing all 229 aboard. 136 Americans were on the McDonnell Douglas MD-11.
1999
Oct. 31, southeast of Nantucket Island: EgyptAir Boeing 767-300 on flight from N.Y. to Cairo crashed into the Atlantic Ocean, killing all 217 aboard.
2000
Jan. 30, off the Ivory Coast: Kenya Airways Airbus A-310, carrying 179 passengers and crew, crashed into the Atlantic Ocean after takeoff from Abidjan. Ten people survived.
July 25, Gonesse, France: Air France Concorde jet en route to N.Y. crashed into a hotel after taking off from Charles de Gaulle airport near Paris; all 109 aboard and 4 on the ground were killed; first Concorde jet to crash since the plane went into commercial service in 1976.
Aug. 23, off Bahrain: Gulf Air Airbus A-320 on a flight from Cairo crashed into the Persian Gulf, killing all 143 aboard.
2001
July 4, Irkutsk, Russia: Russian Tupolev-154 crashed on its third approach to the runway for a refueling stop, killing all 145 people.
Sept. 11, New York City, Arlington, Va., and Shanksville, Pa.: For the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, see Terrorist Attacks.
Oct. 8, Milan, Italy: Scandinavian Airlines System (SAS) MD-87 jet bound for Copenhagen hit a Cessna aircraft during takeoff in a heavy fog at Milan's Linate airport. All 104 passengers and 6 crew aboard the airliner, as well as the four people in the smaller plane and four airport workers, were killed in what is one of Italy's worst air disasters
Nov. 12, Queens, N.Y.: American Airlines Airbus A-300, bound for the Dominican Republic, crashed into residential neighborhood minutes after taking off from JFK International Airport. All 260 people aboard and 5 on the ground were killed.
2002
Feb. 12, western Iran: Iranian airliner en route from Teheran to Khorramabad crashed into a mountain while trying to land, killing all 118 aboard. Overcast or foggy conditions may have contributed to the crash.
April 15, nr. Pusan, South Korea: Air China Boeing 767 en route from Beijing crashed into a forested hillside near airport, killing at least 115 people. Miraculously, 38 passengers survived. Poor weather conditions were blamed for the crash.
May 4, Kano, Nigeria: EAS Airline BAC 1-11 bound for Lagos plowed into a poor, densely populated suburb of Kano shortly after takeoff, killing 148. Dead included all 76 aboard and dozens on the ground.
May 7, Dalian Bay, northeast China: China Northern Airlines MD-82 jet crashed into the bay shortly after captain reported a fire in the cabin. Out of 103 passengers and 9 crew aboard, none survived.
May 25, nr. Pescadores off western Taiwan: China Airlines Boeing 747, bound for Hong Kong with 225 people aboard, broke apart in midair and plunged into sea 20 minutes after takeoff from Taipei. There were no survivors.
July 27, nr. Lviv, Ukraine: Russian-built Sukhoi-27 fighter jet crashed while performing an acrobatic maneuver during an air show. 83 people were killed, including 23 children; the 2 pilots ejected to safety. It is the worst air show disaster in history.
2003
Feb. 19, nr. Shahdad, Iran: Iranian military airplane, Ilyushin Il-76MD, carrying members of Iran's Revolutionary Guards, crashed in the Sirach Mountains, killing all 276 on board, making this Iran's worst air disaster.
March 6, Tamanrasset, Algeria: An Algerian Boeing 737 crashed after takeoff from Tamanrasset, killing 102 people.
July 8, Port Sudan, Sudan: a Sudan Airways airplane, a Boeing 737, experienced technical difficulties shortly after takeoff and crashed while attempting to return to the Port Sudan airport. One child survived and 116 passengers and crew perished.
Dec. 25, Cotonou, Benin: a chartered Boeing 727 jet bound for Beirut, Lebanon, crashed after hitting a building on takeoff, killing at least 140 people.
2004
Aug. 24, Moscow, Russia: two Russian planes, both departing from Moscow's airport, crashed within minutes of each other, killing a total of 89 people. Explosives were found on both flights.
2005
Feb. 3, Kabul, Afghanistan: Afghan Kam Air, Boeing 737, bound to Kabul crashed in the mountains, killing 105.
Aug. 14, Athens, Greece: a Helios Airways, Boeing 737, en route from Cyprus to Athens lost cabin pressure and crashed when it ran out of fuel, killing all 121 on board.
Aug. 16, western Venezuela: a chartered West Caribbean Airways, MD-82, en route from Panama to Martinique, crashed in remote western Venezuela, killing all 160 on board.
Sept. 5, Medan, Indonesia: Mandala Airlines, Boeing 737, crashed soon after takeoff, killing 102 on board and 47 on the ground; 13 passengers survived.
Oct. 22, Lagos, Nigeria: after take-off from Lagos, a Nigerian Bellview Airlines Boeing 737-200 enroute to Abuja crashed, killing all 117.
Dec. 6, Tehran, Iran: Iranian military plane, a Lockheed C-130, crashed during an emergency landing the Tehran airport, hit an apartment building, and killed at least 115.
Dec. 10, Port Harcourt, Nigeria: Nigerian Sosoliso Airlines plane carrying 110 crashed during landing, killing 106.
Dec. 19, Miami, Fla.: Chalk's Ocean Airways, Grumman G73 seaplane, headed to the Bahamas, crashed into the ocean off Miami, killing all 20 on-board.
2006
May 3, Sochi, Russia: an Armavia (Armenian airline), Airbus A-320, crashed in the Black Sea en route to Sochi, killing all 113 aboard.
July 9, Siberia, Russia: a Russian airline S7 Airbus A-310 slid off the end of the runway just after landing in Irkutsk, killing 122 people.
July 10, Multan, Pakistan: a Pakistan International Airlines Fokker F-27 turboprop crashed minutes after take off, killing all 45 on board.
Aug. 22, Donetsk, Ukraine: a Pulkovo (Russian) airliner, TU 154, flying from the Black Sea resort town of Anapa to St. Petersburg , reported a fire on board and crashed in stormy weather, killing all 170, including 45 children, on board.
Aug. 27, Lexington, Ky.: Comair Flight 5191, a Bombardier commuter jet, crashed after attempting to take off on the wrong runway, killing 49.
2007
Jan. 1, Indonesia: Adam Air Flight KI-574, flying from Java to Manado, crashed in stormy weather and strong winds, killing all of the 102 people on board.
March 7, Yogyakarta, Indonesia: A Garuda Indonesia Airlines plane overshot the runway and crashed, killing 22 of the 140 people on board.
May 5, Doula, Cameroon: A Kenya-bound Kenya Airways plane took off in stormy weather and crashed moments later, killing all 114 people on board.
July 17, Sao Paulo, Brazil: An Airbus skidded off the runway at Congonhas Airport in rainy weather and crashed, killing at least 176 people. It was the worst aviation accident in Brazil's history, and the second in less than 10 months.
Sept. 16, Phuket, Bangkok: A McDonnell Douglas MD-82 plane, which took off from Bangkok, skids off the runway and bursts into flames during heavy rain in Phuket. At least 88 people are killed.
Nov. 30, western Turkey: A passenger jet, the McDonnell Douglas MD-83, crashed seven miles from its destination airport in Isparta, killing all 56 passengers.
2008
June 10, Khartoum, Sudan: A Sudan Airways airbus, flying from Amman to Khartoum, burst into flames when it skidded off the runway while landing in stormy weather, killing 32 passengers.
Aug. 20, Madrid, Spain: At least 153 people died when a 160-person passenger plane, flying from Barajas airport in Madrid to Las Palmas in the Canary Islands, skidded off the runway during take-off and burst into flames.
Aug. 22, Utah: All 10 passengers of a twin-engine plane died when the Beech King Air A-100 crashed and caught fire near Canyonlands Field airport in southeastern Utah.
Aug. 25, Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan: An Itek Air Boeing 737 bound for Iran crashed and caught fire about 10 minutes after take-off, killing 68 out of the 90 passengers.
Sept. 1, eastern Congo: A Beechcraft plane carrying 15 passengers and 2 crew members crashed on a ridge in the eastern Congo, killing everyone on board.
Oct. 8, Nepal: A Yeti Airlines passenger plane, flying from Kathmandu to Lukla in eastern Nepal, burst into flames on the runway while landing in heavy cloud, killing 18 of the 19 people on board—only the Nepalese pilot survived.
Nov. 4, Mexico: All nine passengers and five people on the ground died when a Learjet crashed in Mexico City during afternoon rush hour. Turbulence from flying too close to a large passenger plane caused the Learjet to crash.
Nov. 16, Canada: Seven passengers died when a Grumman Goose amphibious aircraft crashed off the coast of Vancouver, British Columbia.
Dec. 8, California, U.S.: Three civilians died when a military fighter jet crashed into a house in San Diego about two miles from its airfield destination. The pilot, who survived the crash, had lost power in one engine and tried to reach the airfield on a single working engine.

[quiet.american]

115. If I'd been on that plane, you can bet I'd be calling it a miracle to still be alive.

Hello! Just sayin'.

[Zhade]

118. I wouldn't.

I've been in dangerous situations, and not once did I turn to superstition.

But it is a good thing no one was hurt.

[quiet.american]

121. That's wonderful. Neither do I. :) nt

[ThisThreadIsSatire]

119. It wasn't a miracle...

but on the other hand, I'm tired of those who say "they were just doing their job -- so what"

Let's give credit where credit is due. It wasn't divine intervention. It was highly skilled professionals (as well as their passengers) who didn't panic and performed at a level beyond reasonable expectations.

Do I call some of them heroes? YES.

Not everyone keeps their head and performs at such a high level under such duress.

Miracle, no. Exceptional, yes.

[Sheets of Easter]

120. "Miracle" is just a word. Big f'in deal.

How about I fix you a bacon sandwich with Random Occurrence Whip?

[SpartanDem]

125. who cares?

I agree miracle is just a word this just pointless whining. By somebody looking for a reason to be offended

[JackRiddler]

122. A real miracle would have never made news.

[tinrobot]

123. I say"Jesus Christ" all the time, it doesn't mean I'm Chrisitain.

Usually it's because I'm frustrated, not because I worship him.

Miracle is just a word. I and many others use it all the time without religious overtones, so get over it.

[RoyGBiv]

124. As an athiest ...

... questions/comments like this are, I realize, why people in general tend to dislike atheists.

I don't believe in a god.

I also don't believe using a word like "miracle" is inherently an expression of religious faith.

And even if a person uses it in that manner, so what?

Really ... so what?

[CoffeeCat]

126. Yes, every "near miss" is a miracle...

A miracle would be if the plane was lifted into the atmosphere, then traveled safely at light
speed to an incredible planet where each of these people was given a billion dollars in
cash and the cures to every disease known to human beings.

Now THAT would be a miracle.

Ending up soaked and terrified in a river with a tray table in your face---not so much.

[Serial Mom]

150. Isn't a "near miss" = to a hit??

It should be called a "near hit"

[Rhiannon12866]

127. The only "miracle" was that a very skilled pilot was flying that plane...

I agree with you, but I'm willing to bet that we'll be hearing a lot more of this... x(

[Stellabella]

128. No, it was the experienced pilots.

A miracle violates the laws of nature. And never happens.

[whopis01]

163. Wrong.

The second definition of miracle from Merriam-Webster is:
"an extremely outstanding or unusual event, thing, or accomplishment"

I think that what the pilot did qualifies as an extremely outstanding accomplishment.

[Stellabella]

164. I was referring to the 'divine miracle' most people think of.

And so what?

[whopis01]

167. I don't believe that is what most people think of regarding the word 'miracle'

That's so what...

Just because the word makes you think of divine intervention doesn't mean that is what it means to everyone.

[chill_wind]

131. Way too much parsing of meaning and intent.

There doesn't always have to be a religious connotation. As in.. there was a lot of ice on the sidewalks today. It's a miracle I didn't slip and break my hip on the way to my car.

.

[OneBlueSky]

132. so maybe it's just a miracle of the universe . . .

or a miracle of creation . . .
or simply a miracle of reality . . .
or a miracle of whatever philosophical or religious context you wish to place it in . . .

miracles imply lack of knowledge of causation . . . can't we just believe in miracles, and not worry so much about their source? . . . we'll never really know, so why can't we just marvel at what happened; thank the source, whatever it may be; and move on? . . . I'm comfortable with that . . .

[Enthusiast]

133. It was not a miracle.

Sometimes it's just a good pilot and favorable circumstances. The guy was fighter pilot, for God's sake, and not in the Texas National Guard.

[wildflowergardener]

136. Miracle

I guess I don't always think of a miracle in a religious way. Maybe if it was a miracle it was that a pilot happened to be on board the plane that had the skill to land the plane and save all those people. Another less skilled pilot could have been on the plane. Or maybe that is just chance.

Meg

[4lbs]

138. There are quite a few coincidences or just-so-happens to make some think that maybe the "miracle" is

that this particular pilot was the one flying the plane.

I'm agnostic, but think about it.

A flock of geese disable both engines of the plane and essentially turn it into one huge massive glider full of 150+ people.

Who is the pilot?

A 40 year veteran, that was intrinsically involved in airplane safety, and also a certified glider instructor.

So, it just so happens that a pilot who is fully knowledgeable in airplane safety and glider control would be the one flying the plane-turned-glider.

This pilot had the experience and knowledge to not only execute what many are calling the perfect water landing, but also make it so that only one really significant injury was reported and no one died. The plane didn't sink and nearly everyone was able to leave it a few minutes after landing.

Would another, less knowledgeable pilot be able to do the same thing? It seems this particular pilot would be the exact person one would want in this exact situation.

Was there some sort of "cosmic 'miracle'" or intervention that set things up so that this person, and no one else, would be the one 'saving' everybody? Of all the thousands of airline pilots in the air at the same time, he was the one chosen for this flight. A flight that saw an airplane become a huge glider. A pilot that was a certified glider instructor and knowledgeable about all aspects of commercial airplanes due to his background in airplane safety regulations.

Maybe we should be calling the "miracle" the fact that this particular pilot was the one flying the plane.

[Waiting For Everyman]

142. And he just happened to set down beside the ferry boats.

[crispini]

143. Not to mention all the boats that were right there.

Ready to pull people out of the water where they surely would have got hypothermia.

I'm a Buddhist, by definition an atheist, but I see this as a beautiful series of happy coincidences. I might even call that a miracle. Without bringing a personalized deity into it at all.

[JerseygirlCT]

141. Might I just say

I think you're over-reacting a bit to what is a common turn of phrase in our language.

If you heard all the newscasters telling you to thank God for this miracle, that's another thing.

But in our culture, "miracle" is often disengaged from its religious origins.

It was an amazing feat of skill and courage on all counts. And even with all of that, it's still astounding that all got out alive. So if you prefer, be comforted that "miraculous" can be accepted in this case in a purely secular way - as something so good it's hard to understand.

[carlyhippy]

144. What's a miracle is that birds being sucked into the engines doesn't occur more often than it does

Is there not some way someone could design the engines with a meshy cover to keep the birds from being sucked up into the engines while allowing plenty of air to come in?

Last time I flew, as we were leaving the runway I could see a flock of geese out my window, I live where ducks and geese are aplenty and this always concerns me.

[LanternWaste]

145. Oh for Pete's sake...

Oh for Pete's sake. Some of the responses in this thread are by people salivating to be a martyr for the secular cause...

Miracle does not denote *only* a religious belief in an astounding act in the here and now. It can just as easily denote something that is a wonder or surpassing a line or expected quality, or an amazing and wonderful occurrence.




Sometimes I think that there are a lot of DU posters who have their heads so far up their asses that the lump in their necks are their noses trying to poke out...

Yeah-- go ahead and keep enjoying writhing around on the homemade cross you're hanging from....

[npincus]

148. excuse me while I fish your turd out of my punch bowl.

[Stinky The Clown]

151. I understand your point, but to me, the world "miracle" in this context .......

..... is areligious. That may not be a universally held view, but that's how it strikes me. Nothing more than a hyperbolic figure of speech.

[Belial]

153. google Obama and Miracle.. you will get over 5,600,000 hits

Its just a word MOST people used to describe an elation.. funny part is I dont mentally make the religious connection until someone brings it up..

[Zuiderelle]

155. And what's with the phrase "Heavens to Betsy?" Who's Betsy and why is Heaven calling her?

[HEyHEY]

159. "Heavens to betsy, heavens to betsy. Come in Betsy. Over"

[sundog]

156. "jesus fucking christ"

that must offend you & the fundies equally :shrug:

[robertpaulsen]

157. You're judging this shit the wrong way.

I mean, it could be that God saved the people on the plane, or He changed Coke to Pepsi, He found my fucking car keys. You don't judge shit like this based on merit. Now, whether or not what we experienced was an "according to Hoyle" miracle is insignificant. What is significant is that I felt the touch of God. God got involved.

Now I'm gonna go walk the earth, like Caine from Kung Fu.

[HEyHEY]

158. I think the word "Miracle" has changed in meaning

People use it more to explain an instance of good fortune more often than an act of god.

[Iggo]

160. I'm an atheist.

So...of course it wasn't.

[whopis01]

162. The word miracle does not always imply diving intervention. n/t

[tbyg52]

165. Depends on your definition of "miracle," I guess

If they mean "divine intervention," of course I don't think it was. But I think it was a miracle of training and teamwork, in the same vein as "miracle of modern technology."

The ones I really hate are when they interview family members of survivors of something-or-other, and they say something like "God was watching out for them." Oh yeah? So God was ignoring the people who *didn't* survive....?!

[Bucky]

166. Do you really not get that the word miracle is a figure of speech here?

George Bush is still president. Surely you've not run out of real things to complain about.