“Difficult” To Close Guantanamo? - Headlines 1/12/09

[Caro]

Politics and Media Headlines 1/12/09

The Heretik

Obama: Closing Gitmo 'a challenge' (Politico)
Barack Obama suggested he's not likely to actively pursue criminal charges against national security officials who were directly involved in unlawful interrogations or wire-tapping, and said it would be difficult to quickly close down Guantanamo Bay. On Guantanamo — which he repeatedly promised to shutter during the campaign — Obama, in an interview on Sunday with George Stephanopoulos on ABC's "This Week," reiterated his intent to do just that but also sounded a pragmatic note. "That's a challenge," the president-elect said about the prospect of closing down to the detainee facility within the first 100 days of taking office.
Is there a new definition of “pragmatic” that has somehow escaped my attention? It now seems to mean “whatever the Beltway blowhards want.”—Caro

Obama's … ABC interview … (by Glenn Greenwald at Unclaimed Territory, Salon)
Obama (on Sunday) rather clearly stated that he will not close Guantanamo in the first 100 days of his presidency. He recited the standard Jack Goldsmith/Brookings Institution condescending excuse that closing Guantanamo is "more difficult than people realize."… Worst of all, Obama (in response to Stephanopoulos' asking him about the number one highest-voted question on Change.gov, … all but said that he does not want to pursue prosecutions for high-level lawbreakers in the Bush administration, twice repeating the standard Beltway mantra that "we need to look forward as opposed to looking backwards"… In the U.S., high political officials aren't investigated, let alone held accountable, for lawbreaking, and that is rather clearly something Obama has no intention of changing.

Conyers introduces bill creating commission to investigate Bush’s torture and wiretapping policies. (Think Progress)
TPM notes that House Judiciary Chairman John Conyers (D-MI) has introduced legislation setting up a National Commission on Presidential War Powers and Civil Liberties. The panel’s goal is to “establish a Blue Ribbon Commission comprised of experts outside government service to investigate the broad range of policies of the Bush administration that were undertaken by the Bush administration under claims of unreviewable war powers.” While he is unlikely to prosecute Bush officials for war crimes, President-elect Obama has hinted at support for such a commission.

After Defending Bush Admin Abuses, McConnell Appointed To Intel Advisory Board By Obama (Think Progress)
(Friday) President-elect Obama announced his selections for top intelligence posts including Leon Panetta for CIA Director and Dennis Blair for Director of National Intelligence (DNI). Surprisingly, Obama also announced that he would at least partially rely on the guidance of the current DNI, Mike McConnell. McConnell will “continue to offer his counsel through my Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board,” Obama said. In some instances, McConnell has shown himself to be an independent actor… In other cases, however, McConnell has also been a key defender of some of the Bush administration’s most egregious violations of civil and human rights. Last night on Charlie Rose, for example, McConnell defended the Bush administration’s expanded use of extraordinary-rendition on enemy combatants. He claimed such renditions never resulted in torture.

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Carolyn Kay
MakeThemAccountable.com

[SammyWinstonJack]

1. Lovely.

x(

[spanone]

2. nwmhtt

[countingbluecars]

3. What would be your advice

on what to do with the prisoners at Gitmo to speed up the closing?

[Caro]

7. I think those people have suffered enough.

There's never been any proof that they were criminals, or they would have been tried and convicted already.

Let them go.

Carolyn Kay
MakeThemAccountable.com

[SammyWinstonJack]

9. I agree with let them go. Guess Obama isn't up to the challenge of doing that.

:shrug:

[EFerrari]

25. It's pretty simple. BushCo was holding everything up so they wouldn't be out

and able to sue.

Repatriate the ones that have been cleared and that can be, safely. Our State Department was blocking that. If they cannot be repatriated because of safety concerns, find them a destination. Their lawyers have been working on that for years and most of them have one.

For the others, hand them over to their home countries where those have an appropriate justice system or put them in ours.

How is that difficult?

[FourScore]

4. Well then... "Get busy" is my reply. n/t

[Peregrine Took]

5. I hear he's even scaling back on the puppy idea and they are going to get a

gold fish instead.

[Hydra]

33. !

:spray:

Thanks for the laugh!

[Senator]

6. You See, President Torture II

It wish it were not as well. But http://talkingimpeachment.com/blog/Hall-of-Shame-Inductee----Barak-Obama.html">failure to impeach, as warranted, has consequences.

And is a war crime in itself.

--

[ThomWV]

12. Do you honestly expect Obama to give back any illegal power George took for the Office?

[Senator]

39. Depends what is meant by "expect" and "give back."

If "give back" means simply to not engage in newly imagined unlawful activity, perhaps.

But in any case "expect" is a bit strong.

There are some things one might "audaciously hope" to see.

---

[Hydra]

8. Hmm...

It's a "Challenge" to let a bunch of innocent people out of a torture prison.

Well, that's just great! I wonder how much of a "challenge" it will be to follow the rest of the constitution?

[SammyWinstonJack]

10. !

:thumbsup:

[countingbluecars]

11. Have they all been proven innocent?

[Hydra]

14. Unless you forgot your sarcasm tag

I seem to recall "Innocent until proven guilty" is generally the way we do things. Besides, you don't arrest people without charge unless you have no charge to arrest them with.

[countingbluecars]

17. I think that they deserve fair trials.

If there are no charges against them then of course they should be set free. I had assumed that some of the detainees were terrorists. Am I wrong?

[Generator]

22. The general consensus

Though GOD KNOWS the American people don't know this-is that most of them are innocent. I read much about it YEARS ago and it made me sick to my stomach. Now, there of course could be some guilty parties in there-guilty of minor things mostly. And of course, the problem is after being tortured for seven years and held without trial while being innocent that might make you or I go a little batty when we get out. And then Obama and the Dems will be blamed for eternity if anyone connected to Guantanamo is released and ever gets a traffic ticket. So in a way I understand the dilemma. But the bigger thing is the moral question.

IT's wrong. It's wrong. It's wrong. And most Americans don't know and don't care. The philosophy seems to be if there's A CHANCE any harm could come then we most torture and hold people forever. It's the epitome of everything America is not supposed to be. It is the standard of all law, all justice, that we are betraying. It makes us no better than a third world terror state like Iran.

So we will see if Obama has the moral courage to do the right thing.

[countingbluecars]

36. Thank you for the feedback.

The whole torture thing makes me sick. I realize that any info/confessions gained through torture would be meaningless.

[Hydra]

23. You are inccorect, but not intentionally

Very few of the detainees have been charged with anything, and the ones who have been have not been convictable without secret evidence and other such contrivances.

The best thing that could have been done was to charge these people in normal court- but the Bush Admin fought that every step of the way. It's even been reported that many of the people in there were brought to us by bounty hunters, and weren't the people we asked for.

My guess based on the fact that they won't let these people have habeas corpus is that too a man/boy there, none of them belong there.

Given all of that, Obama's claim that this will be a "challenge" is more than a little disturbing

[countingbluecars]

37. Thanks for answering my question.

I think Obama will restore habeas corpus to these men.

[Caro]

19. You can't be "proven" innocent.

You can only be "proven" guilty or not guilty. Which is whether or not the state has proven its case against the defendant.

It's how our legal system has worked for 500 years.

Carolyn Kay
MakeThemAccountable.com

[MessiahRp]

13. So much for all of that change we were promised.

Change is going from Wingnut to Right Wing Democrat. Wow. That's such a political seismic shift. :eyes:

Rp

[Hydra]

15. "Give him time!"

He needs plenty of time to disappoint us throughly, apparently.

"We don't torture" the other day has become "It's a hard habit to kick"

[SammyWinstonJack]

18. bu$h also said 'we don't torture'. I guess locking people up in cages in gitmo,

and holding them for years without a trial, isn't a form of torture? And now Obama says it's going too be a challenge to release them? :argh:

[SammyWinstonJack]

16. I think 'change' was just a feel good campaign slogan.

[stillcool]

28. did you work on the campaign?

[stillcool]

27. don't you worry about a thing.

Nothing is going to get any better. What a relief, eh? Now we can just sit back and watch the tv, and piss and moan about whatever whoever said. All that bullshit about change..'coming from the bottom up'..what a joke.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

20. If I were going to actually think about it...

I would realize that Guantanamo has been a naval base for over a hundred years, the longest overseas U.S. naval base there is. There have been many distinguished men and women serving there generation after generation, before Bush sullied the name. So no, I would not expect a naval base to be completely closed and emptied and given back to the Cubans overnight. Despite Obama issuing an order to close it during his first week in office.

But then again, thinking about things ruins the knee jerk, anti-obama, concern troll narrative that's so popular these days.

So as such, I'm very concerned and am sickened by the Obama administration.

[WI_DEM]

21. Advisers say Obama preparing to close Gitmo

Advisers say Obama preparing to close Gitmo
By LARA JAKES Associated Press Writer
Posted: 01/12/2009 12:03:12 PM PST


WASHINGTON—Advisers to President-elect Barack Obama say one of his first duties in office will be to order the closing of the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay. That executive order is expected during Obama's first week on the job—and possibly on his first day, according to two transition team advisers. Both spoke Monday on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly.
Obama's order will direct his administration to figure out what to do with the estimated 250 al-Qaida and Taliban suspects and potential witnesses who are being held at Guantanamo.

It's still unlikely the prison would be closed any time soon. Obama last weekend said it would be "a challenge" to close it even within the first 100 days of his administration.

(Why don't we just wait until he is president and see what he does).

[Caro]

38. Why are these advisors anonymous?

And why are they explaining what Obama said just yesterday?

Carolyn Kay
MakeThemAccountable.com

[stillcool]

24. You guys are funny...

---------but I'll get in 'lock-step', and say Obama Sucks!! Don't worry about anything, nothing is going to get any better. Whew. Isn't that a relief?

http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=15474
President-elect Barack Obama said this weekend that he does not expect to close Guantanamo Bay in his first 100 days in office.

“I think it’s going to take some time and our legal teams are working in consultation with our national security apparatus as we speak to help design exactly what we need to do,” Obama said in an exclusive “This Week” interview with George Stephanopoulos, his first since arriving in Washington.

“It is more difficult than I think a lot of people realize,” the president-elect explained. “Part of the challenge that you have is that you have a bunch of folks that have been detained, many of whom may be very dangerous who have not been put on trial or have not gone through some adjudication. And some of the evidence against them may be tainted even though it’s true. And so how to balance creating a process that adheres to rule of law, habeas corpus, basic principles of Anglo-American legal system, by doing it in a way that doesn’t result in releasing people who are intent on blowing us up.”

But Obama said unequivocally that it will close. “I don’t want to be ambiguous about this. We are going to close Guantanamo and we are going to make sure that the procedures we set up are ones that abide by our Constitution. That is not only the right thing to do but it actually has to be part of our broader national security strategy because we will send a message to the world that we are serious about our values.”
-----------------------
Wait a minute- Did Obama actually ever promise to close Gitmo in the first 100 days? Did I just fall for another one of ABC’s special ginned up stories in which they just flat out make shit up and then flame Obama for not adhering to their fantasy? See also- Jake Tapper and cigarette smoke.

*** Update #3 ***

Looks like once again, I have fallen prey to Tapperesque nonsense from ABC. I have scoured the intertrons and can’t find any promise it would be closed in the first 100 days. Around the 11th and 12th of November, there were a slew of stories about how closing Gitmo was a priority, but there was no fixed time.

[WI_DEM]

26. these are people who have never cared for Obama and will never give him the

benefit of the doubt. They started in as soon as he was elected and he's not even president yet and they have proclaimed him a failure and not keeping his committments.

[stillcool]

29. I wonder if they're taking cues..

from the tv set?

[Cleita]

30. I distinctly remember one Obama's campaign promises was to

close Gitmo. We need to keep him to his promise.

[stillcool]

31. And did you read that he distinclty..

said in the aforementioned interview that..
“I don’t want to be ambiguous about this. We are going to close Guantanamo and we are going to make sure that the procedures we set up are ones that abide by our Constitution. That is not only the right thing to do but it actually has to be part of our broader national security strategy because we will send a message to the world that we are serious about our values.”

[Cleita]

32. And this is different from what I said, how? n/t

[stillcool]

35. I'm sorry. I thought you were saying..

that Obama was reneging on that 'campaign promise', for some reason.

[stillcool]

34. oops..

[Duende azul]

40. The "difficulties" in closing Guantanamo prison

Apparently they want to do it without holding the perpetrators accountable.

So like with torture in general they can´t say: "It´s a crime. We will stop it."
By recognizing the crime they would have to go for the criminals.

So the new admin will try to tiptoe around the issue.