Smokeasies Defy Smoking Bans Across the County

[High Plains]

http://www.examiner.com/x-536-Civil-Liberties-Examiner~y2009m1d6-Smokeasies-defy-smoking-bans-across-the-country
J.D. Tuccille
Civil Liberties Examiner
J.D. Tuccille’s warnings that the folks tasked with protecting us may be just as worrisome as the people they're protecting us from have been quoted by media including Wired and the New York Times. Published by newspapers such as the Washington Times and the Denver Post, he has most recently written for his own widely cited Disloyal Opposition blog.
Lit cigarettes remain common even in places where they're forbidden.There's no ban or edict that any government can stuff down its subjects throats that some people will not resent and defy. Ample proof of that comes from Illinois, where The Telegraph reports, "ike speakeasies during Prohibition, the area now has 'smokeasies.' Almost every town has a bar or two where people know they can go to smoke without being told to extinguish it." Welcome to the resistance, folks. Similar reports are trickling in from across the United States.

Where can you find smokeasies? Over the past few years, they've been spotted in Colorado Springs, Honolulu, New York City, Philadelphia, San Francisco, Seattle ...In Cleveland, where smoking and stripping were restricted at the same time, the bans resulted in two-fer "smokehouses" where sex, booze and tobacco mingle in a completely illegal environment. Sounds like, fun, to be honest.

Elsewhere, licensed, above-ground establishments simply thumb their noses at the law, relying on loyal clientele to appreciate the scofflawry and keep their mouths shut. Logically enough, this suggests that low-profile, neighborhood establishments have a better chance at surviving as speakeasies than glitzy joints full of ever-changing changing faces.

According to the Seattle Post-Intelligencer: The smoke-easies tend to be in neighborhood dives; the Ballard bartender noted that it's too risky to allow smoking in trendy bars like the ones in Belltown. "If you're in the Frontier Room or the Rendezvous," he said, "you can't tell who's going to mind the smoking or not because there's a different crowd there every night."

In a neighborhood dive, even a militant anti-smoker will keep his mouth shut if wants to avoid pariah status. None of this should be a surprise to anybody. The word "smokeasy" or "smoke-easy" is, after all, a play on "speakeasy," the name for establishments that sold illicit booze to willing customers during the long, dark years of Prohibition. Politicians may please themselves or the mob with restrictive laws, but very often such laws are unenforceable, because people subject to those laws aren't willing to comply, no matter the penalty.

<snip> More at link...

[High Plains]

1. Smoke 'em if ya got 'em.

[ColesCountyDem]

2. Our police chief: "When the IDPH sends me money to enforce it, I'll enforce it".

This is a sore point with many law-enforcement agencies...

[High Plains]

4. It's also a sore point with many citizens.

You can only police people as much as they want to be policed.

The Seattle bartender's comments are revealing. Smoking bans seem apropos for yupscale fern bars, not so much for neighborhood dives. I would imagine that the losses in income and gains in income everyone argues about divide along class and neighborhood lines.

Seems like an argument against smoking bans. If people want smoke-free environments, businesses will respond.

[DJ13]

8. If people want smoke-free environments, businesses will respond.

If market ideology trumped a near religious fervor to tell people how they should live that would be how this issue would be approached.

[Greyhound]

13. Funny you should say that, that's how all this crap started.

The "smoke free" places in and around LA couldn't compete with the smoking establishments so they had to resort to force through legislation.

Smokers drink more and tip better.

[kenfrequed]

14. What?

I am a nonsmoker and I tip better than most of my 'smoker' friends.

You can't support a generalization like that, there has been no serious research.

[Greyhound]

19. Not according to this.

A study funded by Cornell’s Center for Hospitality Research indicated that smokers spend an estimated 13.8% more in restaurants vs. all patrons, while non-smokers spend approximately 4.8% less.

This took me all of 30 seconds to find.

This is also born out by decades of experience in the business. When I managed lounges and the smoking area laws came into existence, I had to rotate the staff through the smoking section because the tips were far better and the smoking section stayed busier through the night. Working the non-smoking section was look on as almost a punishment.

I also have many friend's that own bars all over the country and in every case, once the ban goes in, business dropped. Believe me, we track this very closely, overall revenues go down and liquor and supplies order get smaller.

Forget the smoking/non-smoking advocate funded research, look at the trade analysis.

You are an exception. Sorry your friends are cheap.

[tech3149]

35. As a life-long smoker I ask no quarter nor give any

If a place of business doesn't want smokers present, I'm fine with that. I don't want to inconvenience those who have a problem with the smoke or the smell. I make a point of smoking outside and downwind to avoid offending those of more delicate sensibilities.

I will admit that I've spent a lot less in restaurants and bars since the smoking Nazis have gained a foothold. If that's what they want, it's fine by me, I don't need their services, it was just a convenience.

[MsTryska]

55. agreed.

I've never agreed with blanket smoking bans.

[NMDemDist2]

3. that's the standard in our local bars

everybody has a metal lid with their name on it, the barkeep 'informs' them they are breaking the law and then hands over their personal 'ashtray' and away they go!!

the local BestWestern can't get away with it so they are spending $1000s to add a heated 'patio' outside the bar area

[kiva]

9. The local pub near me just provides short plastic glasses

with a bit of water--sounds like your bar has a better solution.

[liberal N proud]

5. I have no problem with smoking parlors

I is just nice to go into a restaurant and not have to hear "Smoking or Non?" or be seated just on the opposite side of what the establishment terms as the a divider between smoking and non smoking.

[monmouth]

6. Many establishments got the message loud and clear when they lost

a lot of customers, especially the bars.

[dipsydoodle]

7. I recall pub in north London with a sign saying

If you don't like smoke - fuck off.

[irish.lambchop]

10. Many pubs in Ireland have 'beer gardens'

just beyond the exit doors outside their establishment that have have shelter from the rain (which is needed about daily!) and wind. Some have portable heaters and televisions. Many people just bring their pints outside to drink and smoke in relative comfort.

[smokey nj]

12. I was in London in Dec. 2006 before the smoking ban there, but well after

smoking in bars and restaurants was banned here in NJ. I actually felt uncomfortable smoking in bars and restaurants while I was there, I'd gotten so used to going outside. Personally, I don't mind the smoking bans because I tend to chain smoke when I'm out drinking and having to go outside helps keep that in check.

[billyoc]

18. God bless England

so we say! :rofl:

[Shardik]

20. I love it!

If I had a bar here, I'd love to do the same.

Hey, if everyone knows it's a smoke-zone, what's the problem? As far as employees go, I would think that non-smokers would not want to work there and it's not as if you'd be hiring more than a dozen folks or so, therefore, I would imagine you could find all smokers to work there.

[dipsydoodle]

31. The whole point was that

the landlady, her sister and her daughters all smoked - they were the entire staff. :)

[pleah]

51. I'll drink to that!

:toast:

[Greyhound]

11. There's a whole network in SoCal. Obviously I'm not going to mention any names,

but there are many, usually very old landmark-type, establishments that just ignore the stupid laws. One of my favorite prime rib joints has never taken the ashtrays off the table and they still have their non-smoking area (closed off and ventilated). Whenever I had to travel in-state, I always stopped in to ask who they knew in the area I was going to and, except for the SLO area, they were always able to provide me with a few names of friendly bars and restaurants.

[snooper2]

15. No smoking ban in Dallas goes into effect in a couple months...

The local dive I go to will be a "smokeasy".....

Manager smokes, bartenders smoke, customers smoke- smoking will continue be damned! :)

[Liberal In Texas]

36. The owner of the pub we go to has said that he may put a 3rd lock on the door and allow in only

people he knows. 90% of the customers smoke and if IIRC, everybody that works there smokes. He and his partner are very worried about not being able to stay in business.

This Dallas law was railroaded through with nobody even considering a compromise. The smoking ban Nazis are very well organized and well funded. When people start ignoring laws like this, they become unenforceable. And laws like this only foster more contempt for other laws among the general population. When are we going to learn that Prohibition in this country doesn't work?

[kiva]

37. This is the problem with these laws.

Several people post links on these smoking threads about how businesses only suffer short-term losses, but that only tends to reflect restaurants and bars that survive the months after such bans. The general view seems to be that neighborhood places that went out of business because many of their patrons were smokers somehow deserve to fail. It should be up to business owners to decide whether or not to allow smoking, since they know their customers.

[Liberal In Texas]

41. There is a bar about a block from that one the opened after the restaurant smoking ban

caused a restaurant on that location to close. The bar is non-smoking. I don't know how they stay in business. Most days/nights you could fire off a shotgun and not hit anybody.

If non-smokers are so gung-ho to support these non-smoking establishments, where are they?

[Warpy]

16. The best way around it is to start a private club

that is not open to the general public but which has very, very easy membership terms.

Those neighborhood bars with the black clouds of smoke are going to be closed down when the cities need revenue and hit them with big fines for disobeying the law.

[Greyhound]

23. Good idea, so CA banned them too. n/t

[Liberal In Texas]

40. Can't do private clubs here either. They know everthing would turn into a private club. n/t

[mykpart]

48. I don't understand how a private club could be banned.

Isn't that unconstitutional?

[Joe Fields]

17. HA! Ya gotta love it!!!! Smokeasies....Where can I find one?

[fadedrose]

21. Well it's about time.................nt

[ixion]

22. w00t!!! go smokeasies!

fight back against stupid anti-smoking laws! :woohoo: :applause:

[Froward69]

24. A local bar here was a smoke easy

for a long time no one had a problem. then on day a long time patron turned in the Joint. he was blacklisted and banned from that bar and other bars for at least a couple miles around.
Then the wierdest thing happened.

The local smokeeasy when refusing to pay the Hells Angels "protection" money suddenly banned smoking at the bar or inside. as the Angels started a campaign to get the owner busted just about every day.

[pl259]

32. Gosh, I have absolutely no idea what you were saying there...

:shrug:

[Habibi]

25. I know of a neighborhood joint in Syracuse that allows smoking.

Lots of cops hang out there.

[Winterblues]

26. I wonder how many here have been bitching about Law and Order

About how Republicans refuse to obey the Law......I guess the Law is only for the fools that want to follow them...Republicans led the way and like a dog eating shit many here would follow suit..

[pl259]

28. Yes, I recall how the Republicans used civil disobedience to start the civil rights movement.

Oh, wait...

[NeedleCast]

33. Because there's no difference between the Consitution and say

anti-smoking laws.

Authoritarian Liberals. Stalin would be proud.

[Greyhound]

49. He would indeed, except he wasn't a liberal,

but definitely an authoritarian.

[varkam]

39. Pretty soon, we'll be torturing people and smoking a cigarette *at the same time*!

Teh horrorz!

[dorkulon]

44. It used to be against the law to teach a black person to read.

Not trying to say smoking bans are on the same level as far as injustices go, but some laws are stupid and it is not a moral wrong to disobey them.

[pmorlan1]

27. I Love the Term - Smokeasies

I love this story. I'm going to make copies of it to hand out to all my smoking friends. We have a couple of local bars that do this and they will appreciate the "smokeasie" name. They are the only bars that we will visit. I'm so sick of the tyranny of the majority. If a business wants to have smoking it should be up to them and not the politicians and non-smokers.

[pl259]

29. Most bars around here ignore the state ban. There are usually a few cops or sheriff

deputies in them having a beer and a smoke.
:-)

[tbyg52]

30. I have no problem with people getting together in a room and smoking,

even though I would not want to be there.

It's the people working in that environment I'm concerned about. Yeah, people who didn't smoke could look for work elsewhere, but they could well end up choosing between not working or breathing pollution.

Edited for inevitable stupid typo.

[Lyric]

46. Yeah, and some of the smoking bans are responsible for job losses

when the businesses are forced to shut down completely--like the situation in Boston, where cigar bars and hookah bars are going to be outlawed due to indoor smoking regulations.

What do you tell THOSE people who've lost their jobs? I'm sure if you ask them, they'd tell you that they'd rather breathe smoke and remain employed than to lose their jobs because a smoking ban destroyed their employer's business. That knife cuts both ways.

[tbyg52]

54. Yeah, kinda like coal mining..... nt

[BalancedGoat]

34. I ran across one bar like that shortly after the Iowa ban started.

Haven't been there since so I don't know if they still allow it or not.

We have one bar here in town that circumvented the law by turning what used to be a garage into a smoke room. When he took out the garage door he left a 6 inch screened gap across the top of the wall so that the room was technically "unenclosed". Two doors and a small hallway with an exhaust fan separate it from the actual bar. He even posted full copies of the law on the wall with the relevant sections highlighted. Local fire marshal wasn't to happy about the room but the owner one when he was taken to court over it. He now has the only bar in town with a completely legal indoor smoking room. Claims he's doubled his business since he built it.

[liberalhistorian]

38. If they wanna pollute and kill themselves with that

toxic garbage, then go for it. But they do NOT have the right to pollute everyone else at the same time.

[ET Racer]

42. Smoking is only a misdemeanor fine

for the smoker and the bar.
The video poker machines and Texas Hold-em games in the back rooms? Those are felonies.
Which one do you think the local bars worry about more around here?
I do find the Illinois law amusing, only 2 exceptions in total to the smoking ban.
1. Tobacco shops in a detached building from other business,
2. Nursing homes.

Guess it's too much trouble dragging that O2 bottle down to the loading docks several times a day...
One year old, the ban is. Casinos are hurting worst.

[kster]

57. Casinos and anyone who makes

a living from taverns and bars, for years I tried to tell the bar owners to sacrifice a few days out of the month for non smoking crowds.

The non smokers and the anti smoking crowd would of had certain days out of the month to Live it up!

No bar owners would try it, so it is kind of their own fault in Illinois, if there are any states that the lawmakers are threatening smoking bans, bar owners PLEASE give up 4 to 6 days out of the month RIGHT NOW to non smokers its not the non smokers that are the problem, its the lawmakers and the anti smoking crowd that is the problem.

If smokers and non smokers get in the hang of sharing a place separately it might be MONEY to the bar owner, and he/she might add more non smoking days to the month.

DO it now!! Or the lawmakers along with the anti smoking crowd will do it for us smokers and non smokers and at that point you won't have a choice!

My two cents......

[dorkulon]

43. We've got 'em in Buffalo, I call them "speak-wheezies"

It's kind of silly, especially in winter, to go to a bar and see more than half the clientele huddled outside. I'm all for it--if you don't like the smoke, there are hundreds of bars to go to.

[MrSlayer]

45. Lots of bars in Philly ignore the smoke nazis.

Fuck them.

[WillieW]

53. It is crazy now

I am a smoker who wants to stop. But I have not been successful so far. However, it has become nuts around here making smokers feel like second class citizens who have to stand outside in the freezing wheat er to get a drag. I am in favor of segregated smoking/non-smoking areas. In a Washington DC suburb it is so bad that even smoking outside is against the law.

[kster]

47. Anti Smokers and Smokers Prove yourself

every bar owner in Illinois you have to get evidence, there are no two ways about it (period) If you don't CHALLENGE THE LAWMAKERS you will never have the evidence.

The 50/50 rule the smokers have the bars 50% of the month and the anti-smokers have the bars for 50% of the month.

It would be a simple scientific test, if the bars do better on the days that they allow smoking, so be it, and if the bars do better on the days that they do not allow smoking, so be it, but atleast prove it.

The 50/50 contest, surely smokers and anti smokers will want the evidence on who will be better for business in their neighborhood.

No one wants their neighborhood businesses to fail. Do they?

:)

K&R

[pipi_k]

50. Letting business owners decide for themselves...

actually I think that's a pretty fair idea. They can/should display some kind of placard in their window and a notice in their advertising, though, just so people are aware of the situation. I think that might work pretty well and be a lot more welcome than government interference.

BTW, I'm a non-smoker since 1996. If people want to smoke, then go right ahead...just do it where people who don't smoke don't have to smell it. Which brings up another related topic...how people smell. When I smoked, I had absolutely NO idea of how badly I reeked. Now I can smell cigarette smoke odor on people at 20 paces. I just shake my head and wonder if they realize how much they stink. Although I do know how hard it is to quit, so I'm not angry at people who can't quit, nor do I think they're weak or without character. Quitting is damned hard.


Anyway, I got to wondering about something that I used to face when I was a smoker myself. When going into a restaurant that has smoking/nonsmoking sections with friends who don't smoke, what do you smokers do? Do you graciously defer to your nonsmoking friends and save the cigarette for outside the restaurant on the way to the car?

Or do you automatically yell out "Smoking section, PLEASE!!!" and smoke away, oblivious to the grimaces and hand waving of your nonsmoking dining companions?

I have to admit to having done both at one time or another....

[MsTryska]

56. I always err on the side of non-smokers.

That's jsut proper etiquette. Unless of course you are riding in my car. But you have fair warning that I will be smoking in my car, and If you have a problem, best to drive, or ride with soemone else.

[Bake]

52. The Smoke Nazis will not be pleased.

I, however, applaud the smokeasies!

Now I gotta go burn one.

Bake

[TheKentuckian]

58. Damn the nanny state smoke Nazis

Why do you hate freedom?

Go to your own lameass non-smoking havens and leave the rest of us alone.

[anigbrowl]

59. Yeah, big tobacco is our friend.

[High Plains]

60. Cough, cough.

[Dulcinea]

61. Why not let the individual business owners decide?

Here in Georgia, each establishment can choose whether or not to allow smoking. If a place allows smoking, no one under 18 can work there or go there. My favorite pub allows smoking in the bar after 9 pm when kids should be home in bed anyway!

If you smoke, you should have a place to go without the smoke Nazis harassing you. If you hate smoke, you should have a place to go, too, and people can vote with their feet. There should be a place for everyone! This is America, fer Chrissake!

It's ridiculous to have smokers go outside in the winter in places like Buffalo, Cleveland, or Chicago. That's punishing people for wanting to have a cigarette, which is a fully LEGAL product. (I have no problem with legalizing pot, but that's another subject for another time.)

Smoking bans are a failure, apparently unenforceable, & a sign of creeping fascism.