disabled man 'left to die by paramedics because he wasn't worth saving'

[n2doc]

By DAILY MAIL REPORTER
Last updated at 4:13 PM on 01st January 2009


This is the first picture of the disabled man allegedly left to die by paramedics who thought he was not worth saving.

The two ambulancemen who reached Barry Baker and found him unconscious are said to have been caught on tape discussing not bothering to revive him.

When Barry Baker dialled 999 to say he thought he was having a heart attack, ambulance controllers kept him on the phone as they ordered paramedics to use their blue lights get to him as quickly as possible.

But 59-year-old Mr Baker, who was disabled and lived alone, collapsed unconscious while talking on the phone, leaving the line open to the control centre as he lay on the floor.

Minutes later astonished dispatch centre staff heard their crew enter the house, apparently making disparaging comments about the state of the home.

A police source, who asked not to be named, said the ambulancemen were then heard over the phone discussing Mr Baker and allegedly saying 'words to the effect that he was not worth saving'.

more:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1103209/Pictured-The-disabled-man-left-die-paramedics-wasnt-worth-saving.html

[Deja Q]

1. If this is what society has devolved into,

at least give out free "instant painless death" capsules.

WWJD?

Wait, J never existed according to those bastards...

[lostnotforgotten]

12. OF Course This Is What Society Has Devolved To - The FundaFascists Preach It Every Sunday

eom

[Xenotime]

20. Ain't that the truth.

[roguevalley]

27. no, this is what these two assbaits devolved into. the world is full of people

doing good. people jump into rivers to save others. emts do things everyday to help others. these two freaks own their own cruelty. if it weren't true, the dispatchers would have not done anything about this. Poor man. I wish him well.

[depakid]

33. Just a quick reminder: The Daily Mail is a Tabloid

[RebelOne]

41. The story is also at the Timesonline.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article5420921.ece

[stop the bleeding]

2. Nothing surprises me anymore NT

[Warpy]

3. Unwitnessed cardiac arrest outside the hospital

is generally fatal. Heroics just don't work. If life is preserved, the brain often is not.

Still, they should have picked up the phone to see if the operator was on the line to determine how long he'd been down. If it was well under 4 minutes, they should have attempted resuscitation, even if they anticipated failure.

Real life isn't like ER. Likely all the heroics in the world wouldn't have saved Mr. Baker.

Their choice of words was terrible, though.

[bettyellen]

15. indefensible....the could have collapsed seconds before they entered

why didn't they try? laziness? distaste for their work?
they were caught on tape planning on lying + saying the fella was already dead. they should be charged for this.

[Warpy]

29. Read my post

and try to understand it.

Yes, they should have checked the phone to see if emergency was still on the line. However, there might have been a reason they didn't see it.

[bettyellen]

62. i totally understand, they may well have killed him. and indicted themselves by not finding that

phone or even trying to resusitate hime since they did not know how long he was out.
quite possbile he was out for only moments, the twits had no idea...try and understand THAT.

[LisaL]

28. WTF are you talking about? The victim has called 999 and

was on the phone with them. When he called 999 he was obviously alive and conscious.
How long does it take for an ambulance to get to someone's home (the article appear to indicate it was minutes)? The paramedics would have to know he lost consciousness sometime after he called 999.

[Warpy]

30. Irreversible brain damage has occurred in 4 minutes

and ambulances can take 15-20 minutes on busy days with traffic.

Undoubtedly there will be an inquest and there needs to be. I'd like to know why they didn't check the phone to see if emergency was still on the line so they'd have an idea how long Mr. Baker had been in arrest.

Again, unwitnessed out of hospital cardiac arrests are rarely resuscitated successfully. If he'd coded in the ambulance, that would have been different.

It might be comforting to cling to the fantasy of "ER," but that's not how the real world is.

[JeanGrey]

39. My next door neighbor lost their son, and two grandsons

to an accident last year. One of them is still living if you can call it that. He was in a car seat but suffered severe head trauma, without oxygen for at least five to six minutes. OF course they revived him and now they have a vegetable in a wheel chair with a feeding tube. I can't tell you how I prayed that night that he'd been taken home instead. Unfortunately, he was "saved".

[Fla Dem]

47. Read the article, not just what was posted. He collapsed while on the phone, before the

paramedics arrived. The poster you responded to stated when they arrived they should have picked up the still connected phone and asked the dispatcher when the victim collapsed. I see nothing wrong with his/her comments that deserved a "WTF".

[Pithlet]

46. Since they don't know if it's under 4 minutes, make the attempt.

There is no defense for it, Warpy. None. They knew at some point recently he was conscience enough to make a call they were responding to. There is absolutely no logic to your defense.

[mrcheerful]

4. Actually I know a paramedic that was fired because of his attitude to wards

the poor and disabled. He complained how saving them was a waste of his time and training, it also showed in how he handled those that called for help. The volunteer fire dept he worked for said he wasn't mentally fit to handle the job. Well yeah, the guy is a rabid foaming at the mouth republicon supporter and the only reason he became a paramedic was it was the only job in the volunteer fire dept that paid a salary.

[firedupdem]

5. Sad....who the fuck are they? Do your job and get the man

stabilized and to a hospital. People make me sick.

[ChazII]

6. Sad. I wonder

how often that happens here in our country. :(

[davidinalameda]

7. I hope he takes those bastards for every penny he can

[LeftyMom]

8. He can't. He's dead.

:shrug:

[davidinalameda]

19. I read the article and didn't see that

oh well, may these two bastards pay for what they did then through karma

[ThomCat]

10. And apparently has no family to sue on behalf of his estate.

x(

[JeanGrey]

9. Oh come on is anyone really surprised at this? I mean

really? At what point does anyone think that life just became this cheap? You'll see more of it.

[ThomCat]

11. You're right. Anyone who is a minority wouldn't be surprised.

Some lives have always been cheap. Anyone who has a severe visible disability is probably used to that idea. I've accepted it for a while that many people would not consider me worth saving in most situations.

It's only shocking because it was witnessed, too blatant to be covered up.

[JeanGrey]

38. All life is cheap, not just minority life.

[unblock]

13. as a former emt, i'll wait til the jury decides this one. i've heard some unfortunate things....

there's a lot of gallow humor in the emt business, even among people who ernestly care. it's your job and you just do it, but sometimes people let out some steam and say some things they shouldn't. i've heard frustrated emt's "advocate" police brutality toward insulin-dependent diabetics who down sugary cookies when they're out of insulin. it's not serious, and you do your duty regardless, and in truth you're not serious, it's just a joke, even though it might sound horribly offensive to those on the outside.

so i'll wait for the trial to see if they really were negligent in their actual duties, or if perhaps they just said some very foolish things before going ahead and doing their expected duties anyway.

it's not clear from the article that they didn't try to revive the patient, only that they talked about not bothering.


bottom line, it's all about what they DID or failed to do, not what they talked about.

[truedelphi]

14. I will agree with your version of this

Having done a lot of hospice work, I will agree with you.

People say really rude awful things, if they are dealing with long hours, or if they are dealing with stress.

I remember the son of one client saying of his father, whom he very much loved, "Why can't he just die already!"

I'm not saying that these remarks are not rude, it's just that sometimes it is horrible to being in the situation of being an onlooker.

And black humor has saved many a worker from burn-out.

[bettyellen]

16. they discussed lying to ther bosses that he was dead when they arrrived-

luckily they are on tape saying that and are now fucked.

[unblock]

17. if they didn't do what they were supposed to do, then by all means put them in prison.

but it would not surprise me if what happened was that they joked about not reviving the patient and then lying about it but went ahead and administered cpr anyway. not enough info in the article to make that clear.

[bettyellen]

21. emergency workers should waste time looking round + joking about letting him die

totally fucking his chance of survival. as i said they didnlt check to see how longe'd been out, and er well they're emergency workers for fucks sake. it;s not okay they are doing a satnd up act instead of their jobs.

[unblock]

35. emts talk while doing their jobs. it's not clear that anything they SAID

had anything to do with what they DID.

i'm sure you've seen medical television shows where they talk about their love lives or whatever while doing a surgical procedure. even that would certainly LOOK bad in a lawsuit but unless it actually interfered with the procedure it's not actionable.

there is zero evidence in the article that they did anything that wasted time or that they didn't actually DO what they were supposed to.

as i've said, if they failed to do the proper procedures, then by all means throw the book at them, but the talk itself is only a problem IF they failed to perform their duties.

[bettyellen]

37. LOL, so you think they were working on him- while debating if they should or not....really??

and they were just joking about not doing their jobs and lying to their bosses. well too bad they didnlt manage to keep their witness alive right- ooopsie.
gallows humour my ass,

[unblock]

44. you have a keen ability to come to a firm conclusion based on one side of the story

should i ever be accused of anything, i certainly hope you're not on my jury.


note that the FIRST duty of an emt in entering a home is to assess scene safety. BEFORE working on a patient, even one in need of immediate attention, emts are trained to explore the house and look for potential dangers such as hazardous materials or other people. during this time it is not surprising for emts to comment on the status of the home.

while emt's can VERY quickly size up a situation, if he was living in squalor it would be immediately obvious to anybody in half a second. it's easily possible for a joke or few to be exchanged while assessing scene safety, locating and approaching the patient, unpacking gear and taking vitals. it's even possible to make jokes while performing cpr, which can get rather tedious.

[bettyellen]

50. his coworkers came to that conclusion-they were "horrified" and i feel very secure in

the knowledge that professionsal- workers who heard the exchange and eventually saw the patient know hell of a lot more than you do about this particular incident. they donlt think it was a joke, doesn;t sond like a joke- ha ha lets not do our job?? ha ha lie to our boss say he was dead?? kinda lame, to say the least,,,
btw, i am not on a jury right now-and your knee jerk defeniveness of emts is the most biased reaction here. heal thyself.

[unblock]

55. since when is withholding judgement until the trial "bias" and "knee-jerk defensiveness"??

goodness me, they have accusers, they must be guilty. after all, accusers are never wrong or mistaken or basing their accusations on an incomplete view of the picture or even on a personal vendetta.

i've said several times and i'll say it again, if they didn't do their duty then they deserve to be in prison. i'd just love to hear their side of the story, but that's obviously not important to you.

[bettyellen]

61. goodness me what makes you think i'm in a jury box right now?

doh! there's a big difference between commenting in a news story and serving on a jury. never mind, it's lost on you.

[unblock]

63. comment on a news story all you like, but please don't deride MY comments

you did reply to MY comments, after all.

[Mojorabbit]

49. It is all together possible

that is what happened or not. As a former critical care nurse, without black humor most people would not last a week in the job. It is a way of dealing with a real high stress situation. Not enough info to tell one way or another in the article.

[fudge stripe cookays]

36. Yes, and as one of the disabled...

The state of my house is NONE of your fucking business!! I'm basically clean, but there are times when our house is a fucking wreck. Why? BECAUSE I'M EXHAUSTED AND CAN BARELY MOVE!!

These people make me sick.

[NJmaverick]

43. Unless you have ever been in a home where the smell literally makes you gag

and sends some running outside to vomit. Unless you have been in homes where there is food, trash and feces (either animal or human). Unless you have been in homes invested by insects and rodents. Unless you have been in homes where the debris prevents you from reaching parts of the home. Unless you have learned to let nothing but your feet touch anything, in some homes (for fear of taking roach eggs with you). Unless you know how bad a home can truly be, you can't properly judge comments about living conditions.

[Vanje]

48. Exposure to bad smell is part of an EMT's job

People needing EMT services , are generally not having their best day.
One can expect a great many to be covered in vomitus, feces, blood, and/or urine.

An EMT shouldnt let fear of getting something unpleasant on his shoes, get in the way of his doing his job.

[bettyellen]

51. his own co workers did. they were horrified by what they heard..

[NJmaverick]

53. What makes you think the 911 or 999 operators go into people's houses?

[bettyellen]

59. wh cares about the house- i'm saying they are better judges of what they heard than you

and that out together what physical evidence they have is what got these fellas arrested.

[fudge stripe cookays]

58. I have.

Been to people's homes that have loads of cats, and where there are tons of dirty dishes in the sink, and food everywhere....

It is still not their job to judge. It is their job to save people's lives.

Gee. Considering your posting history, why am I not surprised that you posted this? :eyes:

[NJmaverick]

42. Unless you have ever been in a home where the smell literally makes you gag

and sends some running outside to vomit. Unless you have been in homes where there is food, trash and feces (either animal or human). Unless you have been in homes invested by insects and rodents. Unless you have been in homes where the debris prevents you from reaching parts of the home. Unless you have learned to let nothing but your feet touch anything, in some homes (for fear of taking roach eggs with you). Unless you know how bad a home can truly be, you can't properly judge comments about living conditions.

[bettyellen]

52. his coworkers "horrified" and i feel very secure in joing them in judging these assholes

if they can;t handle te job- and that is what you are saying- they should quit before they kill someone.

[NJmaverick]

54. What makes you think the 911 or 999 operators go into people's houses?

[Vanje]

56. Are you having some sort of tech problem?

You keep posting the same posts over and over and over again.

[Berry Cool]

18. Ah...a cover-up.

No excuse, then, for them being bastards. I don't care how stressed they were. They were being unethical and had no business being in a job where their duty was to go out and try to save lives--even lives that probably couldn't be saved. They should have at least made the effort. Instead, sounds like they didn't want to make the effort and considered covering it up. "Let's not and say we did." No excuse.

[bettyellen]

22. they thought because the place was a sty- a single fella recovering from a hip operation

is going to live in a sty unless he's wealthy.and they judge himworthless for that? fucking assholes- that guy could easily be them one day.

[JeanGrey]

40. I know this part made me the most upset. I just had hip surgery

for cancer and both of my knees are shot, and I have someone with me fulltime and sometimes even STILL our house is a wreck because my husband is disabled as well. It is never truly dirty because we are fortunate enough to have someone to come in; nonetheless, what nerve.

[roseBudd]

25. is it true that to intubate or not is a serious decision? As in Terri Schiavo should not have been

based on 12 minutes w/o oxygen?

[unblock]

26. generally speaking, emts should do what they can to save lives

i suppose every state is different but generally it's not up to them to pronounce patients dead or to decide that it's ok not to provide a service that, at least by the book, could save a patient's life.

it gets more complicated if the family shows them a do-not-resucitate order, but typically, they should do the procedures that they're trained to perform such as cpr, etc.


it's also rarely obvious how long the patient has been without oxygen. people get time frames wrong all the time.

[Obamanaut]

23. I had a totally positive experience with the EMT-ER-ICU trio, as

posted in another thread on this incident. The link is to the other thread.


When the EMTs got to my wife on the road where she had been thrown from her motor scooter, the one who got to us first was as solicitous of my well being as she was of my wife. She gently asked me to move over, and then she told me everything she was doing and why she was doing it.

Neither the local EMTs nor the life-flight helo crew mentioned insurance, and when we got to the hospital, the ER and the ICU team didn't mention it either. The first time was in the admissions office on the second day following the accident. A rep from the admissions office came to the ICU waiting room and told me and my daughters to see her when we felt up to it, patted me on my shoulder, and left.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4745421

[pengillian101]

24. Wow, that's just cold.

Barry Baker: Paramedics are accused of not bothering to revive him

[mnhtnbb]

31. We had a high school football player last summer who called 911

(Chapel Hill, NC) to come to his home and ask for an IV --post practice. The EMT's who responded
did not transport him to the hospital. His parents came home several hours later to find him dead.

The medical examiner in NC still has not released autopsy results.


http://www.newsobserver.com/264/story/1178629.html

[juno jones]

32. It apparently takes all kinds.

I personally had a good experience with emts after a bad car accident. They gently insisted that I accept their help and gave me very good care in the ambulance even tho I didn't think at the time I was hurt badly enough to need an ambulance ride.

However I once worked with another cook who was also a PT emt. She was fired for stealing from the restaurant. A few weeks later she also was fired from her ambulance job and stripped of her emt priveleges for stealing from patients. Go figure.

[Divine Discontent]

34. sick men. and like many on here have said, we've dealt with people that seemed as cold as these two

there are good EMT's, in fact the last ones my fam dealt with, were extremely professional, but the bad ones give many a bad name. Shame on these two forever.

[bdamomma]

45. no respect for life or death. sad.

[polly7]

57. I'm an emt and this story makes me sick. 'Black humour' doesn't excuse the denial of care

for any reason. So kind of the dailymail to publish pictures of his home, too.

[dysfunctional press]

60. "we're here for his liver..."

"oh, i told him not to sign that organ donor card"