I never wanted this, but

I've realized finally (and this jerk sure helped towards that realization) that it's time for me to define myself by my class rather than by things that apparently don't matter anymore (such as citizenship of a state or country) and things that never should have mattered (such as race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, etc. ad nauseum.)

I am lunch-bucket toting working class.



That's who I am now, and as such I have more in common with



and feel more kinship for



and owe more allegiance to



any other working class individual of any race, any creed, or any country than I do with the Hiltons or Waltons or Trumps or bushes of my native land.

I didn't want to see class war tearing us apart. Hell, my first job out of high school was the U.S. Navy. I've always considered myself a good American. I loved my country. I helped fight her wars, I paid her taxes, and I obeyed her laws.

Now this bastard George Buckley, CEO of 3M comes along and says



and my country grants him a much bigger, much louder voice in her government than I will ever have. I was told by more than a few people on the thread featuring the above quote that I made too much of his words...that the poor fella is only doing what he has to do so he and his company can survive.

Well then, so am I, friends...so am I.

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

and the speed with which it's getting there even Joe the Plumber will eventually get it, T...and before now the only thing he ever got was crabs.

I was in a thread recently started by a UAW type. When asked if he was going to start buying his local newspaper, instead of getting the free online version they're forced to put up to stay relevant, to support the journalists and editors who came out for him he was like, "nope, sorry, that's not a union job."

You always have the perfect graphic for every occasion.

You actually worked in the well-punched-out Dickie Fuld, a guy who, in real life, makes Darth Vader look like a pussycat. Brill!

...good Lord...it's years now, isn't it? How time flies!

It is better when you know it really is.

by their final reward.
Swamp Rat probably has the graphic for that too!

I can't always afford the bandwidth to load your graphics, but I have faith (yeah, I'm a smart atheist) that I would agree with them!

The average american is supposed to "suck" it up when it comes to hard times, join the military during times of war, give up any "extras" they may have, all for the sake of the "country", yet the rich and the super rich have not loyalty at all to their country, only to their bottom line "profits"! The average americans are the backbone of this country, the jerks that run big corporations are simply greedy SOB's!

and hopefully people will see that we, the working class AND the poor, need to support each other instead of letting the SOBs pit us against each other. They are trying to do this at my work and I find it so offensive. While the chief officers bring home huge salaries and bonuses, we don't get a raise. So what do they do? They attempt to tell us that some other workers are the cause of our problems and we should be angry at them instead of th big wigs who caused all this. fucking shit.

we won't have shit. Hell, with The Company we're getting all the shit we can eat and more. We need to realize among ourselves that without us The Company won't have shit and it's time we came to an understanding on this, The Company and us.

to start small manufacturing companies in the US. Goods that we used to make here in the US, screw the mega corps they have no obligation to American citizens or the US and we shall have no obligation to them.

There were once even region television manufacturers.

Re I think it's time for individuals and groups in this country to start small manufacturing companies in the US.

of desperate, needy applicants who will put up with any of their shit just to get a job.

You don't like it? There's the door, bud. We got plenty to replace you with. Ya think this isn't intentional? Welcome to NeoSlavery.

The one best thing we all can do to help, right now, is to support The Employee Free Choice Act. The Democrats got elected with Labor's help, and they're going to weasel out of passing it if we don't hold their feet to the fire. Strong unions mean strong labor.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

"I ain't gonna work for Maggie's brother no more.
Well hands you a nickle, he hands you a dime
He asks you with a grin if you're having a good time
Then he Fines you every time you slam the door

I ain't gonna work for Maggie's pa no more.
Well, he puts his cigar
Out in your face just for kicks.
His bedroom window
It is made out of bricks.
The National Guard stands around his door.
I ain't gonna work for Maggie's pa no more"

who tell everyone else to suck it up.

i.e. wealthy republicans who never served in the military -- but are military crazed, anti-union, anti-poor slime buckets.

I too will always have far more in common with you and those you just depicted than I ever will with the interests of the vast majority of the Congre$$ that pretends to represent me.

Took a while to get through my thick skull, though!

I found it here, but I'm unsure of its actual origin.

bite your tongue and go stand in the corner! . . .

we all know that there is NO class system in the United States of America! . . . it's not permitted!!! . . .

my social studies teachers taught me that . . . and my elected officials KEEP telling me that . . . and while the latter MIGHT be lying, I always trusted my social studies teachers . . . they wouldn't lie to me -- would they? . . .

class in America . . . why, the very idea is preposterous! . . . treasonous, even!! . . .

people who think like this should be sent to Gitmo -- or worse . . .

the very idea! . . . (harumph) . . .

My government tells me the food there kicks ass!

And welcome to DU, stillwaiting!

I'd get me some free healthcare!
Happy new year!

problem - yes we all had a hand in some of the problem but when you look at who the architect was on this mess you realize it wasn't the workers who made the BIG choices that put us right here where we ended up.

The Year the Buck Stopped
Jenn Hoskins: architect of the recession
Washington Business Journal

http://washington.bizjournals.com/washington/stories/20... ^1751910

When Jenn Hoskins worked as a subprime lender, she spent her days in a Herndon call center, fielding inquiries from people who had received tantalizing offers to get cash back by refinancing their homes for up to 125 percent of their homes’ value.

“We ‘helped’ people,’” Hoskins said, putting air quotes around her words.

Though she didn’t realize it at the time, Hoskins now knows she was one of the many architects of the nation’s economic recession. The asset bubble and bust created by creative financing brought on a surge of foreclosures. The downturn that followed has cost more than 1.9 million jobs — including her own. About 95 percent of the customers at Alabama-based Southbanc Mortgage, where she worked from 2003 to 2006, were refinancing, not buying, she said. Fewer than 10 percent got fixed-rate loans, though most callers initially asked for them.

..........

you can snatch as a gift from the gods because finally this week there'll be money left after the bills are paid, then we are related, and I mean that.

I don't even live in the same city as my family because we needed the pay increase I got from my new employer. I go home every couple of weeks to see them...just like when I was a sailor.

I need to find a copy of Grapes of Wrath to watch tonight.

is Tom Joad!



If you can't find it, though, this one will do in a pinch!

here:

http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4084447/The_Grapes_of_W... (1940)(Henry_Fonda)_Xvid.avi_by_Rod

I love Jane, but someone in my government once told me that wars are won by "boots on the ground". It hasn't reached that point yet, but if (or when) it does, they're going to find their wing-tip, Italian leather boots are massively outnumbered.
When it comes to that, I've been lacing up steel-toed boots just about 35 years now pretty near every day, and instead of wing-tips they've got full metatarsal protection. They're not pretty, but they're pretty much %$@&-crushers...and I save a lot on shoe-shines!

Tocqueville, Democracy in America explains all about the aristocracy and our so called Freedom. Gosh, I am so good at being free, no one can stand me. I like me though, and my husband adores me!

The sad reality is that they've been trained not to believe that class is all that really matters.

I don't know, but this time there's a palpable unrest I didn't sense in the other downturns. If this downturn turns down as much as it feels like it will, perhaps there will be enough of a catalyst there to get people off their tee-vee worshipping behinds and get some change effected. Something's gotta give. This unsustainable joke known as the consumer-driven economy was one of the stupidest ideas ever dreamed up by "the smartest guys in the room".

Fake divisions such as ethnicity, religion, sex and whatnot are constantly used to divide the working class against themselves.

we've become a bit too manipulable. Living under the constant day-to-day stress of barely getting by financially will make you do things you normally wouldn't.

To use a metaphor, when you're drowning just trying to keep your head above water will make you grab for anything floating nearby.

A drowning person will put their rescuer in jeopardy by grabbing them around the neck and trying to climb them. It's not in their self-interest to do so but the situation usually forfends clear thinking.

I believe the corporate ruling class intentionally keeps as many of us as it can close to "drowning" financially so that we won't think clearly and won't act in our own self-interest.

Sounds evil, I know, but they aren't interested in being nice.
They're interested in draining every penny from you they can without actually killing you.

It's time to make our new incoming government aware of us and that corporations serve the people, not the other way around.

Coming from you that means a lot!

Hey! We stumbled into DU the same month, you and I!

Thanks for the thread, Career Prole.

I've got your back and you've got mine.

You know, I really had an Uncle Joe. His last name was Smith. Raised a lot of eyebrows booking motel rooms with that name!

Sticking to the union, I'm stickin to the union...



-Hoot

Music really can move a population.

but alas I had to settle for his son and granddaughter.

-Hoot

There are many reasons I wound up as a cook and baker after a few years at college. Maybe it was working with all the socialists and communists at the restaurants I came up in in Berkeley, but I have had no desire to join the oppressors no matter how much money could be made. When I had money and a business (briefly) I probably screwed the pooch by not hiring people or investing in rentals. But I will not hire someone unless I can guarantee a good standard of living for them in exchange for their time. And landlording is repugnant to me, akin to hoarding and cheating(forgive me DU'ers who might actually be compassionate landlords, but I have never met a compassionate landlord. It's funny how poor people were accused of wanting to 'get rich quick' by buying their own homes in the latest economic boondoggle, but landlords are never criticized for their gains, some of which can be considerable in a economy such as this with going rents far higher then they were a few years ago, but of course they are respectable landlords and not poor workers...).

I identify as working class. There are more of us then there are George Buckley. As Patti Smith says, "We created it, let's take it over".

Cooking and baking are both honorable trades (and damned difficult to master). You have much to be proud of and no doubt sleep better at night for your decision. Karma is real.

and I feel CLEAN. I have just baked bread (staff of life and all) for hundreds of people. And I am just a journeyman in the old scale of things.

There is a misconception that 'anybody' can do the jobs that we have spent years mastering. Not true. You have not stated what you do in this thread, but you know how much it takes to master a skill. It is a lifetime of work and constant humility. Something that seems to be overlooked in this era of quicky 2 and 4 year certificates and degrees for the trades.

During the Reagan years my dad (a new deal dem if ever there was one) would occasionally drop his voice and confide to me, "This shit is enough to make me a socialist".

Here's to a good night's (day's) sleep!

Unfortunately, it's a dying trade. I repair printing presses for my bread. Never missed an edition in spite of fires or floods.
I hope against hope newspapers hold out for another 10 years or so. I'm still too young to retire, but I fear I'm too old to start over as something (someone) else.
But when I go to bed at night (or more accurately at about four A.M. after the presses shut down and the last paper is on the docks), I hit the pillow knowing I didn't cheat anybody during my ten hours on the job and just like you...I sleep like a baby.

Great nickname too!

Happy New Year!

as a nurse, much of it in the social services sectors. You learn a lot about humanity and humility when you start out emptying bedpans...and grow on from there..

My college drop-out son is an apprentice pastry/line chef in a local restaurant. He works long hard hours ( serving others celebrating tonite as we speak), but he couldn't be happier. The highlight of his new skills test so far might be the pecan pie he made for P.E. Obama and his campaign staff when they came to town in November.

Great post. Here's to the staff of life and the occasional pecan pie.

I always have. May the new year bring health and all the rewards you so richly deserve.


P.S. I also hold a special place in my tummy for pecan pie!

I worked for a couple of years off and on as a NA (before certification was in vogue )That is some hard and stressful work. I wasn't cut out for it. My mom and dad were a bit disappointed as they were health and education professionals (social services!)respectively. But they didn't discourage me from taking path I did. I came up thru apprenticeship as well. It's a hard road but the discipline and skills your son will aquire will be worth it. There is nothing like working with a master chef for a number of years.

Thank you for supporting your son in his ambitions and calling.

I envy him the pecan pie thing. I am in a bakery now, but was working in a cajun restaurant for 18 months previous. I used to make the pecan pie. He's so lucky! Congratulations!
Happy New Year!

He used to make us upside down pineapple fruit cake!

..30 years of Republican abuse.. union busting.. offshoring...election fraud....

holding "buy nothing" days to show the asshats just how much we can effect the economy, remember?
Now a lot of people are merely buying a little less and just look at what that did.
Oh, what a mighty voice we'd have if we shouted together!

I despise those parasites and pity them at the same time, their minds are polluted by power, privilege, and greed.

Those who support the American Worker are Patriots, the Multinational corporate elites and their allies are traitors. It is that simple. They are traitors not only to the US, but to all of Western Civilization, and to all Mankind. They threaten to ruin our civilization with their selfishness, just like, according to British historian Arnold J. Toynbee, landed aristocrats ruined Graeco-Roman civilization, condemning it to death, the death shroud being the Roman Empire, a despotic "universal state." Western Civilization will suffer a similar fate if the Multinational Corporate parasites are not removed from the body social.

During the Peloponnesian War The Democracy of Athens was constantly under threat of it's own aristocratic elites, who betrayed Athens to the Spartans in order to destroy the democracy they hated, unleashing a class war that didn't end until the Graeco-Roman Civilization lay in prostrate subservience to the Caesarian tyranny. Western Civilization may suffer the same fate.

Welcome to the Age of the Gracchii, updated for the 21st Century.

That post is going to have me studying all night! Well said, thou true and faithful student of history!

Thucydides himself was an Athenian aristocrat and sided with the aristocrats and that biases him somewhat, but in general his work is excellent and brilliant. Unfortunately the aristocratic bias has survived down into history, making Athens's foreign policy thought of as "imperialist", which is misleading, the accusation of "Imperialism" was part of the spin churned out by the aristocrats. The Peloponnesian War was just as much a class war, or even more so, then it was an actual military conflict. with democrats across Greece siding with Athens and the aristocrats siding with Sparta.

The ideology of the aristocrats was formalized by Plato in his Republic. Plato betrayed his teacher, Socrates (who was an ardent supporter of the democracy, though he got in trouble criticizing politicians and trying to turn young aristocrats to the democratic side, which lead to his death), by torturing Socrates's gentle Humanism into a sick, twisted Totalitarianin ideology that would of "liquidated" anyone like Socrates.

Plato's political ideology was used by the Fascists, and was adored by Leo Strauss, the granddaddy of the Neocons.

I'd read Plato's Republic for a philosophy course but I've never read Thucydides. I'll look it up.

Socrates's generation, called the "Great Generation" by Karl Popper, created the most intellectually brilliant and momentous era in the history of the world. Pericles was the father of Liberalism. Protagoras criticized traditionalism and promoted skepticism and agnosticism. Democritus taught that everything was made of atoms and that the supernatural did not exist (the stuff that still exists of Democritus's writings look for all the world like direct criticisms of Plato, even though Democritus was dead by them, more evidence that Plato simply systematized the beliefs of the Aristocratic Class). and Socrates preached a doctrine of humanistic, humble skepticism. It was all very modern. Then the stupefying influence of Aristotle and Plato, the champions of the Aristocratic Ideology, ruined this. It was not until the Renaissance that the ideas of the Great Generation rose like a phoenix out of the ashes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democritus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protagoras
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prodicus

Working with none of the technological advances we have and yet they formed the very backbone of much of what we know today. We've allowed our minds to grow lazy and fat.

The Atomists, like Democritus, I especially like. They espoused ideas about human knowledge, observation, and experiment and came so close to triggering a Scientific Revolution. Also important were the Sophists, like Protagoras, who despite the negitive reputation given to them by Plato, attacked political and cultural traditionalism and became the first political theorists and sociologists. They promoted skepticism and falsifiability, that we cannot know absolute truths but we can find knowledge nonetheless. Then there was Socrates, who taught us never to arrogantly assume we are always right, who was called the wisest man in Greece because he admitted his own ignorance, who taught us never to stop questioning, never to stop asking "why is that?". Socrates was such a defender of intellectual honesty he died for it.

I knew it wasn't just the rheum-atiz!

i was a union laborer working on concrete high-rise construction for a number of years, until my body finally couldn't takt it anymore.

Prior to repairing those I repaired CNC machine tools for 11 years for a large defense contractor until a lot of us got the boot when the Berlin Wall came down. No gripe there...if you don't need more missiles it's stupid to build more (quick...someone tell the guvmint!)
The defense contractor was California and union. The newspaper is Texas ("right-to-work" state ) and no union...but looking forward to the day with hope.

Sorry you broke down, bro. It awaits us all who work with our hands (and legs...and backs...) Have they done right by you otherwise?

Time to break out the White Album and cue up Little Piggies!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW46zqIxnx0

Happy new year!

Passing that little gold plate under people's chins when they take the "Jeez-it".

Do I know you? No...really. How'd you know about that? You do know I had to hang up my cassock, right? Bum knees. Common altar boy injury.
I do miss my little bell, though.

Now that you've shocked the bejeebus outta me by knowing my secret past...happy new year, Calimary!

Thanks.

Great expression of freedom!

Great freedom of expression.

Outside The Blue Room is dedicated to you tonight!

Went a-googlin' looking for lyrics for Outside The Blue Room and haven't found any yet, but I did find Ear Candle Productions! Nice to meet you, and welcome to DU!


Happy new year, and thanks for the tune!

Happy New Year!

Ah well. Hard-won knowledge is seldom forgotten.

Happy New Year!

eom

I'll be chucking out a lot of things with 2008...chief among them being the worst president ever and the way I used to gauge my position in the world.

Happy new year!

Amazing that DU's corporate apologists aren't shitting up this thread. We should always be on the side of the worker. Without jobs, there will be no recovery.

...but I'm guessing the champagne will run out sooner or later.

Ya know, I believe that's the first time I've said "Thank you, snot!" in my entire life.

Happy new year to you!

Count me in with the lunch-box toters.

I'd sure rather spend time with anyone who works hard for a living than those who believe us to be "less than".

Julie

You come from a proud heritage.

Happy new year, Jules!


(Dang...that's like my millionth beer this thread. I'd better call a cab...and who put this lampshade on my head?)

that made me cry

Is it ok if I spread this around via e-mail? I think it was written beautifully, and describes exactly how I feel.

Numbers are what will get it back for us, and I don't mean numbers on some CFO's balance sheet or any damned stock-ticker. You tell everyone you want, and thanks for the help.
Happy new year to ya!

Happy New Year!

We've been counting on you...and a happy new year right backatcha!

You won't regret it. Some of that other stuff, eh...not so much. But this you won't regret.

With you on our side, we know we will win.

And quite a sight to see!

From one native RIer to another.

Brother.

K & R

"We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are the change that we seek."

Thanks for the inspiration, P.E. Obama!

Don't forget the Clintons. Bubba of Arabia and his Secretary of State.

Where do I sign up?

The fist logo is a great start.

Back in the nineteenth century, people came from Europe to escape the class system. A peasant, or at least the peasant's American-born children, could aspire to a comfortable life.

Latest statistics show, however, that the U.S. now has WORSE upward mobility than any country in Western Europe. We're even slightly worse than the U.K. in this regard, despite that country's reputation for having a stratified society.

It's not a lack of "hard work." People in low-paying jobs work incredibly hard* and often need to hold two jobs to make ends meet. Yet few of their children will make it out of poverty.

*If you don't believe that poor people work hard, you need the extremely educational experience of signing up with a temp agency that places both clerical and industrial workers. The industrial jobs always start at either 6 or 7 in the morning, provide 20 to 30 minutes for lunch, and involve supervisors whose main job is to yell at you and tell you you're lazy, need to work faster, and can't talk to your fellow worker. They may require compulsory overtime. Clerical jobs are slightly better: you start at 8 or 9 in the morning, get an hour for lunch, and can sneak away from your desk to chat with a colleague. However, if you're doing data entry or word processing, you may still be electronically monitored to make sure you're hitting the required number of keystrokes per hour.

I did jobs like these on and off for three years when I was an unemployed and under-employed Ph.D. during the Reagan recession. Since then, I only sneer at any yuppie who groans about "working hard" pushing papers. The yuppie gets paid handsomely, but his or her secretary probably does all the real work.

I temped for just a few months and it was awful...and in the corporatists' fondest dream, we'd all be temps.
No respect, no benefits, not even names. Just hands and backs which can be easily replaced if they balk.

Living paycheck to paycheck, sweating the fact that mine will be
mailed tomorrow instead of direct deposited yesterday, and my SO
possibly getting an IOU instead of a paycheck next month,

puts me right in there with you.

Realizing that many of my friends don't even have jobs right
now puts the picture in crystal clear focus.

The day the worker is put ahead of profits is the day we can
celebrate.

Thank you, CP!

...and remember this always. To steal a line from Johnny Shellshocked in The Englishman Who Went Up a Hill But Came Down a Mountain, a sappy movie (which I loved anyway)...

"We can do it. It's just 'ard work."

Faces of America
-Dan Fogelberg

There was a time, a simpler time
When a man could be sure of where he stood
I used to work at the yard, working honest and hard
The hours were long but the pay was oh so good

I had a family and friends, oh so many friends
We'd drive to the lake on holidays
Back then it wasn't so dear for a sandwich or beer
At night I still dream I can see their faces

Certain things that you depend upon
There are places that you know
And the faces of america
Oh, where do they go, where did they go

I was born on a farm, a mid-western farm
I rode on the tractor with my dad
And though we never had much it was always enough
And we made the best with what we had

But then came four years of drought and the bottom dropped out
My father was broken like the rest
And I can still see his hands signing over his lands
And the bankers grow fat on the flesh of the dispossessed

Certain things that you depend upon
There are places I can go I sift the ashes of america
For someplace I used to know
Someplace I used to know
Someplace I used to know

There was a time, a simpler time
When a man could be sure of where he stood
I used to work at the yard, working honest and hard
The hours were long but the pay was oh so good

Certain things that you depend upon I used to think were guaranteed
Like the right of every man to work and feed his family
And the faces of america seem so distant and estranged
Have their eyes become too blind to see
How much their hearts have changed
How much their hearts have changed
How much their hearts have changed


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vH2NPh-lLaY

To the workers of America!!!

Dan was/is my favorite, may he rest in peace.

And Welcome to DU!

From ClassWarrior's post in the referenced thread:


"Add 26 words to corporate law and thus create what I call the "Code for Corporate Citizenship."
....this would... add the following clause. Directors and officers would still have a duty to make money for shareholders,

...but not at the expense of the environment, human rights, the public safety, the communities in which the corporation operates or the dignity of its employees.

This simple amendment would effect a dramatic change in the underlying mechanism that drives corporate malfeasance.

http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0119-04.htm

Now there's an idea whose time has come!

doesn't it make sense for all workers to unionize? We shouldn't be bound by country or even type of work. An adminstrative Assistant, an auto worker, a nurse, a teamster, etc... we should all unite and stand with each other. That's the way to make unions strong again, by having one for everyone. Heck, front line supervisors and some middle management have more in common with front line employees than with the execs. Let them join too. Time for world wide unification for equality and fairness.

two X-tal Reunion Songs in Quicktime movie format

Here is a couple of post punks at a 10 year reunion doing a couple of songs that might make you smile.
(produced in San Francisco)

Thank you! If it's globalization they want, let's give it to them.
I'd rather break bread with a worker from anywhere in the world than with a b*sh.

Onward.

Happy new year!

Glad to have you on board.

(considering I'm an old yankee) Dawn breaks on Marblehead!

As a public corporation, he is employed to ensure the success of his company, and to protect the interests of shareholders. To be sure, there are "socially conscious" corporations, but 3M has no such reputation (as opposed to, say, Ben & Jerry's or Stonyfield Farm or whatever). If it wasn't established at the outset, it's pretty hard to retrofit later, particularly for a corporation of that size, and frankly if he did a socially conscious thing at the expense of shareholders, he could be sued. Sucks, but that's the reality.

In general, though, I agree with your sentiment. Reality sucks, sometimes.

not left or right, it is ruling class vs working class.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYiuqPTGZxo&feature=rela...