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Negro? Fucking NEGRO? Are you fucking kidding me?

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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 04:19 PM
Original message
Negro? Fucking NEGRO? Are you fucking kidding me?
That racist Republican jerkoff presumes to advise black Americans to "Hey, lighten up, it's just a joke?"

To me (although I'd never presume to speak for black Americans, because I'm not one), the word "Negro" seems to be the second most racially-charged word - after only "The Big N Word," harking as it does back to the days before black Americans decided, and INSISTED, that THEY would be the ones to decide how they should be referred to, rather than the white people deciding it for them.

Negro. It's a deliberate fucking insult. Don't have the slightest doubt about that.

(And I'll apologize to any DUers who prefer to describe themselves as "African-American" rather than "black." I'm really not sure which terminology is the most polite these days, so if you want to correct me, I won't mind.)

Redstone
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yeswecanandwedid Donating Member (440 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. word is born n/t
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
35. its pretty damned awful. I have to check the calendar to see what
century this is. However, there is a silver lining. If they make these freaks their leadership, they are doomed in this country.
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. The new word of choice...
On those website where desperately fevered and utterly-fucked-up-about-race white scumbags dwell, is "Negroidal".

THAT is their idea of being oh-so clever and scientifical and all.

Assholes.
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. that's so gayical!
:P

the problem is, if it were a sketch on Mad TV it would be funny as satire. On MadTV, because that's what they do: poke fun at sensitivities. Even if it was on JibJab, but only because JibJab doles it out to both sides pretty evenly.

But as part of a political dialogue subscribed to by any political party, satire is as inappropriate as the thing itself.

That's the part they forget - they're not being paid to be funny.
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. And for good reason:
Because they redefine the word "suck" when they attempt humor. Theirs is a type of humor that is best expressed by a long, low, liquid, sonorous fart.
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 04:41 PM
Original message
Your post is pure poetry. n/t
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
18. Thank you. Racism is the cancer that will kill America, unless we excise it.
Redstone
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. Excellent point. Context DOES count.
Redstone
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. "Negroidal?" PLEASE tell me you're joking. (I know you're not; that information is just
so stunningly, Christ, I don't know how to describe it, scummish? Lower than low-class? Imbecilic? Loserish? Don't-you-got-NO-fucking-pride-ish?

Utterly inexplicable. Utterly unbelievable.

Redstone
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I wish I was joking.
If I was the praying type, I would not only pray, but sacrifice animals to The Great Gods of The Joke, in the hopes that I was joking. But no, sadly, I am not. The 3-tooth contingent does use this word and it crops up with some regularity on the web-based fever swamps of the right, when the guys want to try to hide their essentially abhorrent facets from the larger public. As if that works.
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HillWilliam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #12
66. Those are summer teeth
sum 'er in, and sum 'er out...

I can only guess it's from knocking them out with their own clodhoppers.
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #10
112. I didn't know living things that are that regressive had the ability to type. nt
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johnfunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
58. They can't help it if they're ASSHOLOIDAL
... or maybe it's the racism.
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mcg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #58
88. They are hemorrhoidal, because they are such a pain in the ass. nt
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
152. Sounds like one of those new fangled prescription drugs
I wonder what it does?
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DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
3. appalling, isn't it?
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
4. remember macacca? they (republicans) are racists...plain & simple
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
54. Yet they support policies that help the most non-whitest of countries.
Very weird for being racists... of course, they probably did too much LSD in the 1960s and spiked their kids' broccoli with it too...

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RetroLounge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #54
82. deleted
Edited on Mon Dec-29-08 06:42 PM by RetroLounge
sorry... misunderstood...

RL
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #82
90. delete
Edited on Mon Dec-29-08 06:45 PM by merh
eom

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RetroLounge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #90
93. deleted the post...
eom

RL
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #93
96. I deleted my post
eom
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
6. There's the elephant in the room
Thank you for pointing it out.

Maybe now, finally, our freeper viewing audience can see their reflection in the mirror.

:thumbsup:


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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
7. I'm glad that they are showing their true colors so soon.
When they are out in the open, it makes them and their ilk easier targets to shoot down. Maybe then we can save our country from them.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #7
51. Bingo
I haven't heard Ron Christie's take on this one.
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HornBuckler Donating Member (978 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
8. UNCF?
Edited on Mon Dec-29-08 04:35 PM by HornBuckler
NAACP - Colored, Negro - etc. Words, nothing more.

edit : I don't condone using these words - just pointing out their existence and common usage.
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Are you black, African-American, or otherwise of African descent?
If so, I'll respect your opinion. If not, as I said, you have no right to presume to speak for Americans of African descent.

Words do mean something to them.

Redstone
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HornBuckler Donating Member (978 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. I have benefited and contributed directly from/to UNCF
Edited on Mon Dec-29-08 04:43 PM by HornBuckler
and I'll leave it at that.

I am many things - Americans are mostly muts(for lack of a better term), don't you agree?

edit: typos
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Oh, we're all mutts in America. I'm half American Indian and half Irish, and my wife
is half French and half African.

But I got your point. No further conflict between us.

Redstone
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Political Tiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
23. But those terms were in common usage
back when those organizations were founded, not anymore.

The NAACP was founded in 1909 and the UNCF was founded in 1944.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #8
26. Except that they're making fun of his skin color.
Yeah. That's classy.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #26
43. No. They're just being jerks, and using a popular film/fiction construct to do it.
The term, believe it or not, was coined by SPIKE LEE.

They technically are NOT making fun of his skin color. They are racists, but the origin of the term is from a different place entirely, and they are using the construct to mock.

This isn't really news. Limbaugh came up with that shit ages ago--it's just being recycled.

See this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_Negro

The magical negro (sometimes called the mystical negro or magic negro) is a supporting, often mystical stock character in fiction who, by use of special insight or powers, helps the white protagonist get out of trouble. The word negro, now considered by many as archaic and offensive, is used intentionally to suggest that the archetype is a racist throwback, an update of the "Sambo" and "savage other" stereotypes.<1> Spike Lee popularized the term, deriding the archetype of the "super-duper magical negro" in 2001 while discussing films with students at Washington State University and at Yale University.<2><3>


The magical negro in fiction
The magical negro is typically but not always "in some way outwardly or inwardly disabled, either by discrimination, disability or social constraint," often a janitor or prisoner.<4> He has no past; he simply appears one day to help the white protagonist.<5> He sometimes fits the black stereotype, "prone to criminality and laziness."<6> To counterbalance this, he has some sort of magical power, "rather vaguely defined but not the sort of thing one typically encounters."<5> He is patient and wise, often dispensing various words of wisdom, and is "closer to the earth."<2>

The magical negro serves as a plot device to help the protagonist get out of trouble, typically through helping the white character recognize his own faults and overcome them.<2> Although he has magical powers, his "magic is ostensibly directed toward helping and enlightening a white male character."<4> It is this feature of the magical negro that some people find most troubling. Although from a certain perspective the character may seem to be showing blacks in a positive light, he is still ultimately subordinate to whites. He is also regarded as an exception, allowing white America to "like individual black people but not black culture."<7>

To save the white protagonist, however, he would do anything, including sacrificing himself, as Sidney Poitier portrays in The Defiant Ones, the prototypical magical Negro movie.<2> Note that Poitier's character is also saved by the white protagonist, as the two help each other throughout the film........


Don't forget--this is SPIKE LEE talking, in essence.


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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #43
47. Yeah, but if Spike Lee ever made a song about a particular person
from an opposing political viewpoint (and only because of that fact), calling him a "Magic Negro," I'd say that he was making fun of the person for being black- picking out a particular characteristic of the person, in this case the person's race, and using it to insult them.

It's the context.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #47
53. I am not defending the stupid song or that Rush jerk. My remarks are limited to the
origin of the popularizing of the term in recent times in our culture. The term and the definition came from Spike Lee, in a lecture to film students. That's all I'm saying. I am responding to people who are SHOCKED SHOCKED SHOCKED at the term, and don't realize what the background of the term is. You can point out, all day, that Limbaugh has twisted the term, but my sole point is that Limbaugh did not INVENT THE TERM.

Limbaugh is trying to say that Obama is a supporting character, here to dispense wisdom and get white males out of trouble, while remaining subordinate to them.

Read the full definition at the link. It's instructive and it shows where Limbaugh was coming from.
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #53
64. I'm not shocked at the term, just at its usage by a prominent Republican.
Redstone
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #64
104. That doesn't shock or surprise me at all, frankly. nt
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marshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #53
162. The term "Magic Negro" isn't as offensive as the song is
The term is a pop culture term used to describe a type of film or novel from the era when the term negro was in common usage. Like the word queer, it has a use within a certain context and becomes negative in other contexts.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #47
70. the context is that he needed a two-syllable word to match the tune...
Edited on Mon Dec-29-08 05:43 PM by QuestionAll
what should he have used?

on edit- i suppose he could have also gone with two one-syllable words, i.e.- "barack, the magic black guy..."
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #70
75. The point is it really doesn't matter the particular word.
He's raising the issue of his skin color in order to make fun of him and for political points. He could have said "Magic black guy" or "Magic black man" and the connotation is still the same.
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #75
151. Kinda, but the negro gives it a lil extra KKK vibe.
nt
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #70
103. Limbaugh didn't need to even inject race into his song, but the "Magic Negro" term is commonly known
to anyone with even a passing interest in film studies, and he, plainly aware of it, jumped on it.

"Magic black guy" doesn't cut it. There's no reason to use that term absent specific CONTEXT. Why not call him Magic Senator, or Magic Candidate, or Magic Newbie.

The film and fiction term, specifically, that is well-known to anyone who studies film and popular culture, is either Magic or Magical or Mystical Negro. It is a plot device, it is commonly used, and many, MANY people have commented on it--well before Barack Obama came on the national scene, and certainly eons before Limbaugh wrote his ditty.

This is the only point I'm trying to make. The term DOES have origins, it didn't come out of the blue, and it's been discussed in the last decade in detail, in scholarly venues, by none other than the famous filmmaker Spike Lee, as well as others.
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Mugweed Donating Member (939 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #43
59. Wikipedia is shit
What the hell is wrong with people these days? Any "encyclopedia" that can be altered and added to by the users is a piece of crap. Even if this particular entry is OK (which I would never sign off on unless I checked an ACTUAL information source first), that doesn't make using Wikipedia as a reference any less lazy and irresponsible.

I understand and agree that these racist fucks are worthless assholes, but please...for the love of "insert here", stop using Wikipedia!
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #59
79. What you said. I absolutely NEVER take a Wikipedia article at face value.
Redstone
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #79
102. Sorry, that article IS accurate. But I've provided other links for the
skeptics who don't bother to check the many links provided at the bottom of the original cite.

I can't believe there are so many people who haven't heard the term. I also can't believe there are so many here who are eager to shoot the messenger for injecting a bit of fact into the discussion.

Hasn't ANYONE watched Spike Lee do lectures, either in person or on TV? Not a single person bothers to play the director's cut of any of his films, or listen to the commentaries on the DVDs? He's discussed this concept on many occasions. It's a centerpiece, in a mocking way, of one of his films.

But I guess it IS easier to dismiss, to mock, to denigrate rather than ask or check. I suppose we shouldn't be surprised when jerks like Limbaugh do just that. It's apparently viral.
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Hanse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #102
108. Rush Limbaugh at this RNC guy were using it in a completely different context from Lee.
There's really no comparison.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #108
109. Please do try reading what I write. I'm not "comparing" anything.
My remarks are elucidative, if anything.
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Hanse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #109
114. You don't really expect me to believe that, do you?
You're defending racism from Limbaugh and this other guy.

Spike Lee invented the term "magic negro" to describe a racist archetype used by white racists in entertainment. Limbaugh and Chip Whatever are two white racists using the stereotype in entertainment.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #114
118. Wow, you really cannot read, can you? My deepest sympathies.
Either that, or you're being obstreperous and seeking a fight.

GO BACK AND READ what I actually wrote. Don't make up stupid crap and try to put words in my mouth.

Spike Lee did not "INVENT" the term, first of all. I never said that.

If you can't understand not-terribly-complex discussion points, there's no point in continuing. But please cease and desist averring that I'm "defending racism" when I'm doing nothing of the sort.

What you're doing is proving to everyone that you have MAJOR comprehension issues. And you're doing it with a touch of righteous indignation as well, which would make it funny if the subject matter weren't so serious and your inability to parse discussion points so...well, genuinely sad.
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Hanse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #118
119. I reread it twice.
You're arguing that what these guys are doing isn't racist, because a black guy coined the term, nevermind it was a completely different context.

That's kind of like the "I'm not racist, I've got lots of black friends" excuse.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #119
125. No, I am not arguing that. AT ALL. You plainly can't read for comprehension.
I think Limbaugh is dispicable. If you could read and understand anything above, what, eighth grade level, you'd see that. But no--you'd rather hunt racists and accuse people on a progressive discussion board. Smooth.

You don't even know what color I am. You know nothing about me. But you toss a suggestive bomblet at the end, nonetheless, because you aren't following my discussion points due to your own reading challenges, and instead are firing without aiming.

We're done. You really DO have my sympathies. Sincerely.
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Hanse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #125
128. From your own lips...
"No (they are not being racist). They're just being jerks, and using a popular film/fiction construct to do it."

Well, right there you're saying they're not being racist. That's a defence of racism.

"The term, believe it or not, was coined by SPIKE LEE. "

Whoops! There's the Spike Lee bit. Has nothing to do with anything, mind you, since Spike Lee's usage is entirely different.

"They technically are NOT making fun of his skin color."

Oh, again with the defense of racism.

"If you could read and understand anything above, what, eighth grade level, you'd see that. But no--you'd rather hunt racists and accuse people on a progressive discussion board. Smooth. "

Listen, it's pretty clear you've stuck your foot in your mouth. You can go ahead and cry all you want, but let's not pretend it didn't happen.


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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #128
130. AGAIN, Limbaugh is being DISPICABLE. Which is what I said ....if you'd not cherry pick.
He is using a term "Magic Negro" (not negro, but MAGIC NEGRO) to paint Obama as a subordinate magical African SUPPORTING character whose purpose in a film or work of fiction is to come along, and with magic and wisdom, HELP A WHITE MALE PROTAGONIST get out of trouble.

The purpose of Limbaugh's use of the word was to MOCK Obama in THAT context. To suggest that he's NOT IN CHARGE, really.

Where you find a DEFENSE of racism in my argument, I have no fucking idea. That's stupid logic, dear. I don't defend racism.

Spike Lee has EVERYTHING to do with this. It was Spike who REVIVED the discussion of the Magic Negro when he produced BAMBOOZLED.

And again, skin COLOR is not the issue, and that's again, not a DEFENSE of racism.

You're a rather, er, CONCRETE person. The world of ideas is apparently closed to you.

You argue at the grade school level, not the eighth grade level, and you do not understand complex constructs.

You've stuck both feet up to your frigging KNEES in your mouth, dear. I don't appreciate you're calling me, in backhanded, dunce-headed fashion, a racist or a defender of racism simply because you're too thick to follow a discussion.

That's YOUR problem, not mine.
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Hanse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #130
132. ...

"He is using a term "Magic Negro" (not negro, but MAGIC NEGRO) to paint Obama as a subordinate magical African SUPPORTING character whose purpose in a film or work of fiction is to come along, and with magic and wisdom, HELP A WHITE MALE PROTAGONIST get out of trouble."

Barack Obama is not a character in a film. He is not a stereotype created by white film makers. Limbaugh's use has nothing to do with Spike Lee's use. He's just mocking Obama as a black person.

"Where you find a DEFENSE of racism in my argument, I have no fucking idea. That's stupid logic, dear."

When you denied it was racist, and blamed a black guy for it.

"I don't defend racism."

Kind of hard to believe you when I just saw you do it.

"Spike Lee has EVERYTHING to do with this. It was Spike who REVIVED the discussion of the Magic Negro when he produced BAMBOOZLED."

Limbaugh's usage of "magic negro" is many times removed from and a gross corruption of Lee's usage. Like the other guy said below, it's like saying a white guy can use the word "nigger" because a black guy said it in a rap song, or "negro" because of the UNCF.

"You've stuck both feet up to your frigging KNEES in your mouth, dear. I don't appreciate you're calling me, in backhanded, dunce-headed fashion, a racist or a defender of racism simply because you're too thick to follow a discussion."

I think what happened is that you recognized the term "magic negro" from some discussion on film, wanted to look smart, and tried to erroneously apply it here. Thereby sticking your foot in your mouth. That happens a lot when people try to look smart.





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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #132
144. You make crap up, and it's tiring. Enjoy your fantasy world. You've got it all to yourself.
And you'll never have to worry about looking smart. Lucky you, eh?
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Harry Monroe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #79
150. I've made my son redo a whole school report because he used Wikipedia exclusively
Edited on Mon Dec-29-08 09:28 PM by NotGonnaTakeIt
I never saw so many errors in my life!! One particular error stood out;he had in his geography report that the state motto of Colorado was "It's hip to be square". I'm not joking!! I made him redo the whole report over and told him if he was ever going to use Wikipedia in the future he had to cross-check EVERYTHING with Encarta. He quickly got the point that it was just easier to use a reputable encyclopedia rather than do "double work" and cross check everything.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #59
101. But it was not altered. It's absolutely accurate. It reflects what Spike Lee said.
I used wiki because it was CONVENIENT. I had heard the term, in context of the Lee lecture, well before Barack Obama ever became famous or Rush Limbaugh wrote the stupid song.

But go ahead, then...attack the messenger. Ignore the information. Dismiss it with a wave of your hand, because apparently, you're not interested in learning anything. Don't check the cites, either, before you reject the information without any scholarship or effort on your part.

You got one thing right. What the hell IS wrong with people these days?

Jesus. Pathetic.

Is The Black Commentator shit, too? He cites an article where the term was used. Oh, this was written in 2003, well before most Americans had ever heard of Barack Obama.

http://www.blackcommentator.com/49/49_magic.html

Morgan Freeman plays God in "Bruce Almighty;" Laurence Fishburne a demigod in "The Matrix Reloaded," and Queen Latifah a ghetto goddess in "Bringing Down the House. "

What's the deal with the holy roles?

Every one of the actors has to help a white guy find his soul or there won't be a happy ending. Bruce (Jim Carrey) won't get the girl. Neo (Keanu Reeves) won't become the next Messiah. And klutzy guy Peter (Steve Martin) won't get his groove on.

In movie circles, this figure is known as a "magic Negro," a term that dates back to the late 1950s, around the time Sidney Poitier sacrifices himself to save Tony Curtis in "The Defiant Ones." Spike Lee, who satirizes the stereotype in 2000's "Bamboozled," goes even further and denounces the stereotype as the "super-duper magical Negro."



Here's MORE. Happy reading. Happy learning.

2003: http://blogcritics.org/archives/2003/06/08/203754.php

2004: http://www.strangehorizons.com/2004/20041025/kinga.shtm...

http://jbs.sagepub.com/cgi/rapidpdf/0021934707307831v1....

2005 Eugene Robinson (Is he shit, as well?): http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61637-20...

Seems to me that YOU'RE the one who's a bit out of touch. The term has been in use for many years now, and familiar to anyone who knows the slightest thing about film and fiction, and issues of popular culture. I'm surprised you're so disconnected that I have to "prove" it, particularly since this issue was discussed the FIRST time Limbaugh's offensive recording made the rounds.

Yes, indeedy, what the hell IS wrong with people these days, that they rush to insult people, wrongly, as it turns out, before they either ask a question politely, or do their OWN HOMEWORK to ensure they're not stepping on their own cranks?

Someone looks foolish, and it ain't me.

DO do that reading--it's quite enlightening.


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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #101
124. Not really
By your logic, whites should also be allowed to use the word "n***a" freely. Context is everything.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #124
127. Where TF do you get THAT? Are you devoid of reasoning skills?
By my logic? Your logic, dear, suffers profoundly if that's what you get from anything I have said. I don't take kindly to your suggesting I espouse that sort of racism--what you did was personally insult me without foundation.

Try reading the whole discussion, and not jumping in like a overanxious, slavering troublemaker with a not-so-smartass "retort."

Try learning a little about Spike Lee. Go watch his film BAMBOOZLED and be sure to watch the director's cut.

Go take a film class and learn about the use of subordinate male negro characters as devices to advance the plot and who serve as guardian angels to white male protagonists--it's a common characterization. It's called a MAGIC NEGRO. That's what Limbaugh was saying--that's the insult. Not the "Negro" word.

Christ. It's not even worth DISCUSSING these topics with people who just refuse to read a full exchange and who are so fucking culturally ABSENT that they may as well be comatose.
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #127
129. I'm saying.... Spike Lee can say it... Rush and the RNC can't!
Relax
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #129
139. The difference is this.
Spike was noting the phenomena. He was pointing out the Morgan Freeman as GOD characters, the Bagger Vance character, the Green Mile guy, all of these "Magic Negroes" whose job it is to help out/save/rescue the White MALE Protagonist. He wasn't endorsing this rather common character device, he was noting it. It certainly IS curious that we still, in this day and age, have Magic Negroes in films who heal and help White Men. Still.

Rush Limbaugh, OTOH, was doing more than "noting." He was CASTING Barack Obama in the ROLE of a Magic Negro. A character who is

--African
--Subbordinate (often in job, certainly deferential, willing to put off their own wishes for those of the protagonist)
--Possessed of wisdom or healing powers or magical abilities
--Here to HELP THE WHITE MAN, the leading character.

It was a total MOCK. It wasn't a mock "about" his biracial heritage--the only thing it had to do with race is that it was totally CONVENIENT that the candidate had African heritage and the term and meaning of the phrase "Magic Negro" was so rich and ripe for plucking. The term and the candidate matched perfectly, to Rush's mind, for him to make his little point: That Obama would be "not really" in charge, and here to save Whitey with his Wise and Magical Goodness. That's where the jerk was going with the reference. And he went that way because he was probably sitting at home one day popping pills and scratching his balls, and watching Spike Lee on a rerun of ACTOR'S STUDIO, or watching the comment cut of BAMBOOZLED, and picked up the "idea" there. Or maybe he got it from that LA TIMES article, but I'm betting he heard it more than once and in more than one place before he chose to use it.

It's clear from reading some of the comments here that a lot of people are completely unaware of this term as a plot-advancing device. But it IS a not-uncommon term to describe the black person who plays that sort of supporting role. Any first year film student can give you the definition, as I (and Spike Lee, better than I) described.

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Withywindle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-31-08 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #139
164. I see what you're saying.
I know the term. It comes up in fiction/literary discussions sometimes too.

I SERIOUSLY doubt Rush Limbaugh or the singing "comedian" has much understanding, or gives a shit, about all the complexities of what the term actually means, but he's never met a term he couldn't appropriate for insulting racist purposes.
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
123. Yeah, but we all know context is key
:eyes:
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #8
126. You have to look at when the NAACP was founded...
At the time the words, "Negro, Nigger....etc were the accepted norm among whites and the understood norm by Black Americans. That was then.....this is now.

Today this derogatory language is not acceptable towards any culture.


<snip>
1909
On February 12th The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People was founded by a multiracial group of activists, who answered "The Call," in the New York City, NY. They initially called themselves the National Negro Committee
<snip>

Timeline
http://www.naacp.org/about/history/timeline/index.htm

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gollygee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #8
141. Those are old names, using the words that were commonly used at that time
they are no longer common usage.
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
11. The GOP will never be competitive among blacks & other minorities
if they keep promoting racist shits like this guy.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #11
115. If they do, you're right. However, never say never.
The Democratic Party used to be the party of vicious, shameless, violent racists, segregationists, and miserable cracker bastards. We have a humiliating legacy, that is only mitigated by Civil Rights legislation shoved through Congress by a pragmatic, complex and sometimes racist President.

Strom Thurmond and Trent Lott started out as Democrats. One of the most vicious racists on the Hill, Russell Long, was a Die-Hard Dem.

LBJ and his Great Society changed the Democratic Party in huge hurry. In response, Nixon's Southern Strategy turned the Party of Lincoln into the Party of Racists.

MLK was a Republican. That "old time feeling" about the GOP, once the friend to the "Negro" (and that was the proper term, way back when) might possibly be why McCain contemporary, Old Man Colin Powell, stuck with them.

It might have been....nostalgia on his part.
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
15. Anyone who takes offense to you using a derogotory word in reference needs to "lighten up"
Anyone who takes the racist fucks urge to "lighten up" seriously needs to be kicked in the ghoulies twice.

Using a derrogatory word in reference is not a sign of a bigot. Some redneck repeatedly called me a "faggot kike" when I was a teen once. Funny thing is that I am neither gay nor Jewish.

Referencing that story does not make me an anti-Semite or homophobic.
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Huh?
Redstone
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. It seemed that you appologized for using the term "negro" in reference in your OP
n/t
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #22
34. Of course I did, even though I was just quoting someone. I have manners.
Redstone
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
16. Limbaugh, The Magic Pill-Head. n/t
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
21. What in the hell are you raving about?
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #21
30. this news story...link inside
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/12/29/politics/politi...

As often happens on DU, the OP is a vent post which unfortunately provides no context to the confused reader.
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #21
31. Don't pay attention to the news much, do you?
Edited on Mon Dec-29-08 05:01 PM by Redstone
Redstone
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Some people take time off from it over the holidays
No need for you to be insulting.
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. Sorry. I wouldn't have noticed it myself, had I not checked the CNN website today.
Redstone
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #21
32. Inadvertant dupe.
Edited on Mon Dec-29-08 05:00 PM by Redstone
Redstone
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
24. More than the "typical" usage of the word- I can see an elderly person
making use of it despite language shifts without any malicious intent- what matters here is what you said. It's a deliberate insult- meaning that they're using the fact of Obama's color to attempt an insult.....as if being black is an insult.

In other words, they're making fun of him for being black.

That's racism.
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Terran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. My partner's grandmother hated the term "black"
To her generation that was insulting, and "Negro" was polite usage no matter who used it, black or white. These things change with time, obviously. Not many people today would consider it polite, though.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #29
37. Yeah, being fairly young the (negative) connotations of "black" or "white" in my mind
Edited on Mon Dec-29-08 05:14 PM by BullGooseLoony
are virtually nil, so I actually prefer "black" over "African American" and "white" over "caucasian" because they just feel less formal- they downplay the significance of the fact. Letting people know they don't need to walk on eggshells regarding the issue.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #37
76. 'Black', like 'white' makes no cultural assumptions. It's just a description. nt
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #24
38. BINGO!! You get the point.
Redstone
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. Yeah- they're incredibly ignorant about the issue they're dealing with.
Pretty well amazes me. They don't understand that it's not the word, but what they're doing that matters.

They're making fun of someone for being black.

It makes me laugh that they're too stupid to understand the concept. Like a five-year-old repeatedly poking themselves in the eye, trying to figure out why it hurts.
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LaPera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
25. Hey, it works better in a song than Black or African-American....
Edited on Mon Dec-29-08 05:07 PM by LaPera
And it still gets their racist hater message across, so they can laugh, and it keeps people separate & divided....their base.

The only way the fucking republicans can survive is by producing hate and dividing people and it's all simply because of ones skin color - as well as the republicans lust for power & money, they believe they deserve, they then can believe they are better than others.....News flash: They are not, and that terrifies them so they'll put down others and follow lying republican leaders who tell them what they want to hear....that they are perfect and better than other people, especially people of color....and they eat it up waving the flag!

Get fucking real would you....who in the fuck is the least bit surprised that republicans are racist...they are hateful greedy elitist...and they ALL think they are blue-bloods entitled to everything (and of course they will ALL be rich someday if the small amount of taxes they pay each year didn't go to "welfare" - corporate welfare is OK though)...I despise all these selfish greedy cold-blooded republicans....They don't want to spend a dime for our system, our society, our infrastructure or people in need...it's all about them, me, me, me...money, money, money - selfish assholes!

I know I'm being far too polite about it, and dancing around it not expressing my real feelings not wanting to be too offending...

The fucking greedy lying republican racist bastards!!
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #25
65. he needed a two-syllable word...
which pretty much leaves him with negro, darkie, or the n-bomb...
and there IS STILL a "united negro college fund" http://www.uncf.org/
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AZ Criminal JD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
27. The phrase "Magic Negro" came from a progressive reporter for the LA Times
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-ehrenstein19m... BTW when hip-hop artists and others use the other "N" word do you get upset?
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #27
39. You fail.
:thumbsdown:
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AZ Criminal JD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #39
63. Failed by some anonymous electrons on the internet
I don't know how I can face myself. I guess I'll manage though.
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Chulanowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #27
44. It's older than that
Edited on Mon Dec-29-08 05:17 PM by Chulanowa
It's a term for a racist (or at least insenstitive) film / literary trope - it's similar to the "noble savage" portrayal of Native Americans. Basic plotline is this. White kid has a desire, a dream, or a problem. Nobody will help him until the least likely person - usually an older black man - steps up to take the poor kid under his wing. There's a vignette of this fellow imparting some good ol' down home southern soul-food wisdom to the gawky cracker. In almost every instance, the kid takes the grubby wisdom, and applies it to his oh-so-superior white self to surpass not only the competition, but also his teacher. For instance, Crossroads - The one with Ralph Macchio

A somewhat less degrading version has the black guy was the "keymaster" - He doesn't get surpassed, but his basic role in the media is to serve the protagonist for a time, just the same.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagicalNegro
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #27
46. No it didn't. Spike Lee popularized it. WAY before anyone ever heard of Barack Obama.
Edited on Mon Dec-29-08 05:19 PM by MADem
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AZ Criminal JD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #46
61. Spike Lee and others may have used the phrase
But this reporter was the one who labeled Obama with it in the campaign.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #61
106. I don't dispute that. Spike Lee didn't originate the term, either, he simply popularized it in this
decade. It had lain dormant for some time until Lee began discussing it in lectures to film students. It didn't start with Morgan Freeman as God or Will Smith as Bagger Vance; the concept goes back, actually, to the dawn of motion pictures.

The term was invented in the mid Twentieth Century, back when the word "Negro" was not viewed as a put-down or a slur or even as a snide way of referencing someone's race. It was a block on a form, a descriptor, the polite alternative to that OTHER "N" word.

Limbaugh, of course, is taking advantage of the cultural discussion of the term over the recent years, and the candidate (now the President Elect) for his own purposes, which are, of course, nefarious.
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Uzybone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #27
52. racist spin
because rappers use it its ok for a GOP candidate to use it? ok then.


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AZ Criminal JD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #52
57. You fail at logic
Try again. I didn't say it was ok for anyone to use it. I just wonder why there are not threads of outrage when the N word is commonly used in youth culture. You are probably too far away from that to understand. z
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Uzybone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #57
67. You know nothing about me so stop making assumptions
and stop using racist spin. Unless you actually believe it. What you call "youth culture" is the culture I was born and raised in and still live in so STFU.

Anyone who says points out that rappers and artists use racial derogatory terms when discussing an issue about politicians using it is trying to set up a smoke screen. How many rappers are running for RNC president?
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AZ Criminal JD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #67
77. Rappers have far more influence in the population than the RNC chairman
Most people could not even name the RNC or DNC chairman. Scores of millions listen to rap CDs and concerts. But continue to make your protests that you "live in" that culture.
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Uzybone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #77
78. Ridiculous
Politicians have 100x more influence than rappers. Are you fucking kidding me??? A rapper is more influential on the country than the leader of one of our 2 major political parties? You are not serious.

Most people couldn't name any of the Supreme court judges but they have way more influence on our lives than anyone in popular culture.

What next: actors have more influence than the president?
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AZ Criminal JD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #78
94. The Chairman of the RNC and DNC are not the leaders of the parties.
Edited on Mon Dec-29-08 06:46 PM by bamalib
The leader of the Democratic Party is PE Obama. Several elected Republicans are vying to be the leader of them. The Chairman position is a nuts and bolts technocrat position. And no, Supreme Court justices, do not have more influence than cultural figures. That's just silly.
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #94
98. Fiddy has 0 power.
Edited on Mon Dec-29-08 07:00 PM by YOY
He has all the power all his money can buy him. Compared to the guy who owns the record company...it ain't shit.

Comparing a rapper to a Federal (or even state) level politician in terms of power and reasoning the former as more powerful is ludicrous (not Ludicris).
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AZ Criminal JD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #98
107. Learn to read
I said influence over the population. You are saying that someone who is the RNC chairman and no one has even ever heard of, that this person has more influence over the population than cultural figures? Get out of your basement once in awhile.
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #107
110. I read quite well. You're really just a rude little prick who said something monumentally stupid.
Edited on Mon Dec-29-08 07:43 PM by YOY
Yeah...rappers have power and influence...my hairy nutsack they do....

but hey...keep it up if you think your ego needs it.
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AZ Criminal JD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #110
161. How long have you been on social security -- two decades at least?
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #27
74. Yes, it's a film colony word. Angels, etc. are often portrayed by Black actors. nt
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #27
121. So blacks can call whites REDNECKS ... because Jeff Foxworthy does.
Good to know.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #121
158. Why not? Redneck is no longer a slur, if it ever was.
It's a point of pride for some. It's a descriptor for others.

Anyone can call a redneck a redneck, if the context isn't vicious. "I met an old redneck at the grocery store last night," for example--anyone could say that. Or this: "Well, he wasn't quite a redneck, but he had a country attitude."

"I got a flat tire and a redneck helped me change it." Again, it doesn't have to come out of Jeff Foxworthy's mouth. "She's got a kinda redneck front yard" to describe a rather eclectic landscaping arrangement that might include tires as planters.

The word could come out of Carlos Mencia's mouth or Chris Rock's or anyone's mouth, nowadays. Redneck has acquired a status/ranking all its own.
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
28. I never understood the LA Times article that prompted the parody
Can anyone explain THIS to me?

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-ehrenstein19m...

I have read it a couple times, and I don't know why THEY used such a stupid term.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #28
56. Well, try reading it more closely
The term was not invented by the writer (who's black, incidentally), but already had currency in the entrtainment world and among sociologists of fiction. If you click on the wikipedia link in the article, you'll get more background - including the fact that the term was popularized by Spike Lee, who is (obviously) black. The character itself is one that's very well established in both Hollywood and literary fiction, in various permutations.

I don't care for it myself. I stopped reading science fiction by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle, for example, after I noticed that whenever an Asian character was introduced it was invariably a beautiful female who was doomed to die within 20 pages and provide her (rugged, white) husband with a legitimate Revenge Motive. Often the role of a minority-race character in a largely white story is to point up the decency of the white hero/ine - by having a non-white friend/spouse/mentor, the leading character is established as Definitely Not A Racist (especially useful in science fiction if the character is later meant to carry out genocide against aliens).

Killing the sympathetic minority character off frequently occurs, since it gives the protagonist an iron-clad excuse to go on a vengeful killing spree, or alternatively shows that the antagonist is totally lacking in redeeming features and that it's quite OK for him/her to meet a gruesome end. A current counter-intuitive trend is to set up a magical negro character in the conventional way but then have them turn out to be a Bad Guy (eg in Training Day) - if the mentor figure is corrupt, then of course their resulting death in a hail of gunfire or whatever is quite justified.

Bear in mind that there's nothing inherently racist about these fictional archetypes. Pretty much all heroic fiction (this is a specific technical term) includes some sort of mentor/shaman character who's outside normal society and whose perspective or motivations may seem ambivalent at first. Yoda is a typical example, the first time you see the Empire Strikes back you're briefly misled into thinking he's set Luke up to get killed by Darth Vader. The archetype of of the helpful mentor who turns out to be corrupt is also a very old plot device.

The point of the article was Obama was in danger of being trapped in the role of the black person who validates the existing power structure; at the time of writing, Clinton still looked like a very strong contender, and Obama might have ended up as the token black guy, whose good eprformance in the primaries could be touted by the Democratic party for years to come while it went on with the business-as-usual of selecting well-connected white people.
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Sandrine for you Donating Member (635 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
41. excuse my ignorance, i'm not used to this terminology,
but what the difference between the "Big N Word" (I get the definition on internet), and "Negro" ?
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. Again, it's not the word, it's the usage.
The context.

Think about the meaning of what they're doing.
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Sandrine for you Donating Member (635 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #42
50. Right I understand, that was a racist meaning, but that was real
question, what the difference ?
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #50
62. The difference is whether it's an honest discussion or an attempt to mock or slander
If we're having a discussion about Africa and someone says 'Africa has many corrupt governments and a lower level of human development,' it's perfectly true in the context of economics, history and so forth. If the same thing is said by someone to justify a complaint about their new neighbors or or a politician, it's probably meant to condemn rather than inform.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #62
69. DOUBLE bingo.
THAT is the crux.
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Sandrine for you Donating Member (635 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #62
83. Ok ,"Negro" can be used in a honest discussion, and also can be
Edited on Mon Dec-29-08 06:11 PM by Sandrine for you
used in an attempt to mock. But the "N Word" is always used to mock or slander. Ok thanks.

Because in Wiki, in the definition and history of the "N Work", it's look like if "Negro" is just an another way to say the "N Word":

""In the 1800s, as "nigger" began to acquire pejorative connotations, the term "colored" gained popularity as an alternative to "negro" and associated terms.""
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whopis01 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #83
153. You want to really understand this?
Here is what is going on - It doesn't matter what word is created to refer to a black person (like myself). It will eventually be corrupted and turned into an insult by those who hate us. Nigger did not start out as a 'bad' word - neither did negro, colored or black. I'm sure that at some point african american will be a 'bad' word.

Here is the secret - It is us who are hated by the bigots. It doesn't matter what we get called - to a bigot it will become a derogatory term. And then they manage to convince everyone else to feel the same way. This is why so many feel the need to take back control of the words that are used to describe us such as nigger. Kind of like saying 'fuck you' to those who want to make anything describing us into a slur.
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Sandrine for you Donating Member (635 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #153
154. Ok, I see. Thanks for the explanation. And you are right :
you should re-appropriate the words of your identity and manage by your self the definitions.
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Mugweed Donating Member (939 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #41
73. only the number of letters
Otherwise racism is racism, no matter what words one uses to veil it.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
45. It's disgraceful. Horribly racist. I would never defend it.
Nor would I ever say that anyone had done black people a favor by promoting such a thing.
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JitterbugPerfume Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
48. what makes me want to puke
is when they defend it as political satire
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Uzybone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
49. Negro is a no-no
Nigger is worse, but negro is in the same ballpark.

But of course its just satire. They weren't trying to be offensive.....uh huh.

:eyes:
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #49
55. Seconded.
The racist slant isn't inescapable.

If Obama was white, would the song be "Obama the magic honky"? I doubt it.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
60. maybe he could donate the proceeds to the united negro college fund...?
:shrug:
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
68. "Barack the Magic Negro lives in D.C. lives in D.C...."


Barack the Magic Negro lives in D.C.
The L.A. Times, they called him that
Cause hes not authentic like me.
Yeah, the guy from the L.A. paper
Said he makes guilty whites feel good
Theyll vote for him, and not for me
Cause hes not from the hood.

See, real black men, like Snoop Dog,
Or me, or Farrakhan
Have talked the talk, and walked the walk.
Not come in late and won!

Oh, Barack the Magic Negro, lives in D.C.
The L.A. Times, they called him that
Cause hes black, but not authentically.
Oh, Barack the Magic Negro, lives in D.C.
The L.A. Times, they called him that
Cause hes black, but not authentically.

Some say Baracks articulate
And bright and new and clean.
The media sure loves this guy,
A white interlopers dream!
But, when you vote for president,
Watch out, and dont be fooled!
Dont vote the Magic Negro in
Cause

Cause I wont have nothing after all these years of sacrifice
And I wont get justice. This is about justice. This isnt about me, its about justice.
Its about buffet. I dont have no buffet and there wont be any church contributions,
And therell be no cash in the collection plate.
There aint gonna be no cash money, no walkin around money, no phoning money.
Now, Barack going to come in here and ........

by some racist white dude named Paul Shanklin
email: Paul@paulshanklin.com
http://www.paulshanklin.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Shanklin

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Uzybone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #68
71. No racism here is there?
besides young black men call each other nigger, so why shouldn't RNC leaders get away with something similar?

:sarcasm:
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #68
81. And what in the hell does Snoop have to do with
have to do with Farrakhan? Or even Al? Oh yeah, that's right, they're all black.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
72. Gays, women, Jews and Catholics are being told to "lighten up" here about Warren. nt
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #72
80. Not by me.
Redstone
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hayu_lol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #80
84. The word Negro...
comes to us from Spain. It is a Spanish term meaning...gasp...black or dark

Negrito=small black or dark

Negra=black or dark female


It was not a pejoritive term.
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #84
89. It isn't in that context, no.
But words have different meanings in different cultures.
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #84
95. You don't get my point, do you? When it's used to slander a President-Elect of
Edited on Mon Dec-29-08 07:02 PM by Redstone
the United States because of his ethnicity, then it IS perjorative.

How many times do people have to point out that it's all the the fucking CONTEXT?

PS: We're not in Spain. And no, I don't need to have you explain to me that the word "negro" in Spanish means "black." I am reasonably literate, and familiar with several other languages in addition to English; AND I even know how to roll my "r" when I pronounce the word in Spanish.

Redstone
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #95
122. It's not being used to "slander" him. It's being used to MOCK him.
And I'll refer you back to that Wiki article you dismissed, and the other four or five articles I've referenced here, that explain the term in depth.

It's not the NEGRO word, you see. It's the MAGIC NEGRO phrase. That's the key to Limbaugh's entire insulting tune.

And what a Magic Negro IS....a subordinate (to the white man he is helping) and mystical character who appears, sometimes with magical abilities or deep wisdom, that he uses to get white males out of trouble. A happy Step-n-Fetchit, who always has that White Guy's best interests first and foremost. A Bagger Vance for the Nation, if you will....

That's what Limbaugh was saying. And Spike Lee's remarks at Yale and AU and while filming BAMBOOZLED are apropos to this discussion.
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #122
131. OK, I think we're on the same side here. It just appears that you've delved into the issue
more deeply than I have. I do tend to not get too analytical in these issues, and I fire off with my visceral reactions about two things:

1) I will NOT tolerate racism, veiled or otherwise.

2) Although I'd not ever prefer to do anything that gay men do, I will NOT tolerate attacks on gay men or lesbian women, nor the denial to them of ANY rights that are the rights of ANY other Americans.

Because I am an American. And I believe that NO American counts less than any other.

Redstone
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #131
142. We're totally on the same side. On both issues.
I tend to delve, as it were, because I know full well that the GOP are not all snake-brained, stupid, dunces. If they were, they would have been easier to beat these last eight years.

I never underestimate the intellectual reasoning of those bastards, even when they're dead wrong. It's always helpful to know where they're coming from, and that is what I try to do. As we sadly know, they are the MASTERS at lifting ideas, and taking words and concepts and twisting them to suit their purposes, or using them to advance their agenda.

In this case, Limbaugh took a construct that has been discussed a fair deal, and "stuck it" to Obama. When people gasped at the "Magic Negro" reference, all he had to do was SMIRK....and point to Spike Lee. He gets to mock twice--once at Obama, and then, a second time, at those who haven't taken the "Plot Advancement in 20th Century Film 101" course at the American Film Institute. He can play the intellectual (faux intellectual) while delivering the insult--all the while insisting it isn't really an insult.

And he actually "sort of" got away with that, the first time he aired the record. If you recall, there was a small hue and cry, but it wasn't anything like the Imus situation or the Sienfeld's Kramer "N" word implosion. It was BECAUSE there were people, in the TV and entertainment industry who "recognized the term," as it were. No, it wasn't cool of him to say it, but there COULD be more than one interpretation of his sleazy little meaning. And so, it sunk like a stone.

But then, when the RNC reissues the little ditty at the end of the year, that's a horse of a different color, or more aptly, a red flag to a bull--they're plainly not talking about supporting characters in films, they're not even making a halfassed comparison between Barack and Bagger Vance, they're just snarkily getting off on the NEGRO bit. You can't PROVE it, but you can feel it. It's just not appropriate, too, for a political leader to be swimming in the sleazy waters that a political (cough) commentator/hate-inciter on the radio dips in on a regular basis, and that's also what is ticking people off--the total lack of decorum on the part of the RNC leadership.

And so, the RNC backtracking begins!
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #142
148. Thanks for the background info, MADem. I hadn't known that.
Redstone
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Hanse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #72
111. No, they're not.
Everybody's equally disgusted with Warren.

The issue's about Obama.
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HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #111
135. You don't reaed so good do you?
These last couple of weeks have been FULL of assholes on this website telling gay people to simmer down.
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HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #72
134. Yup... 100 per cent correct.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
85. There are valid contexts for that word.
I doubt any of them would feature a Republican.
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #85
137. Whoa. The whole concept and issue, encapsulated in just a few words. Excellent.
Very, VERY well and concisely said.

Redstone
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
86. I'm so old I remember when people like MLK decided they wanted to be
Edited on Mon Dec-29-08 06:26 PM by DemBones DemBones
called Negroes. Listen to his speeches, he refers to his people as Negroes. The term "black" was highly offensive at the time. The previous polite term was "colored people." Then "black" became a polite term.

Today, the United Negro College Fund and the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People coexist in a world with the Black Congressional Caucus. You want to tell two of them to change their names?

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lynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #86
91. I thought I was the only "oldster" who remembered Negro as proper language -
- The "N" word was considered racist when I was a kid and was on the way out. Most blacks were then called "colored" and that term went by the wayside, too. The proper term was then "Negro" and it remained the term of choice until "black" - and later "African American" - came into fashion. However, no one ever told me that Negro was a derogatory and/or racist term and, by definition, it isn't.

I don't see "Negro" as a racist term although its rarely used anymore. Dated - Yes. Racist - No.

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Uzybone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #91
92. Context is everything, Barack the magic black man would be racist too..
considering the context and lyrics of the song. IMO words themselves are not racist, or else everyone who ever wrote or said nigger would be racist. The context that they are being used is the issue.

The issue is not about the word itself, its about the racist song that the word was used in.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #92
145. The OP made "Negro" the issue, not "Magic Negro."

Negro was not and is not a derogatory term though any word may be used in a derogatory manner. Negro is Spanish for "black," comes from the Latin niger and nigra (masc. and fem. forms) of "black." It was the word of pride in the early through mid-sixties.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #91
147. At least there are two of us who remember the civil rights movement. nt
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #91
157. Me too. nt
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #86
97. I don't want to tell anyone to do anything. Didn't I make that clear? Please stop accusing me
of having some kind of angenda here, besides being furious about something with obvious racist intent.

I did not suffer a bit during my life because of only being half white (other half being American Indian), but my wife suffered in ways you could not even IMAGINE, in your wildest dreams, because she's half-African.

I think I know a little bit about this subject.

Redstone
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #97
146. Your agenda is to tell everyone that "Negro" is a racist term

when it isn't. A lot of black people preferred "Negro" to "black" and some still do.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
87. Son of a bitch needs a big ass kicking!
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Ecumenist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
99. AMEN, Redstone!! As a black, (AA) Woman, who's been black most
of my life, I can vouch for your opinion that "negro" is a HUGE insult. That's right next to "Darkie" and "Colored"
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
100. Yes it is
IN any context it is an insult

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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
105. Redstone you got it
It is insulting, offensive and racist!

I heard some yahoo calling in on the TV machine saying, get over it because it's the same as calling Palin an airhead or McCain old....they will use anything to justify their hate talk.

I am not going to get over it because it's not a parody and it's not a joke. It's very serious.......
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
113. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #113
117. Which North?
Hell, Prussian Blue is from Bakersfield, CA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_Blue_ (American_duo)

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ismnotwasm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
116. I miss Richard Pryor
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Az_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
120. The Republican Party is the home of racism in America...
I'm sick and tired of this garbage being spewed across the public airwaves as simple parody...it isn't innocent at all. I don't understand why the FCC can't step in and do something about pulling broadcast licenses for this vile hatred.
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HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
133. Sorry people, this is indefensible
Edited on Mon Dec-29-08 08:51 PM by HEyHEY
You just can't tell me this crap is acceptable. It is making an issue out of his race and using Negro in a derogatory sense. Not acceptable.
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #133
143. Thanks for the Northern perpsective. And so accurate, as so much Northern perspective
Edited on Mon Dec-29-08 09:15 PM by Redstone
tends to be. How the hell do you guys manage that? And why can't WE?

Redstone
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deaniac21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
136. .
Ne⋅gro   /ˈnigroʊ/ Show Spelled Pronunciation Show IPA Pronunciation
noun, plural -groes, adjective
noun 1. Anthropology. a member of the peoples traditionally classified as the Negro race, esp. those who originate in sub-Saharan Africa: no longer in technical use.
adjective 2. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of one of the traditional racial divisions of humankind, generally marked by brown to black skin pigmentation, dark eyes, and woolly or crisp hair and including esp. the indigenous peoples of Africa south of the Sahara.
3. being a member of the black peoples of humankind, esp. those who originate in sub-Saharan Africa.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Origin:
154555; < Sp and Pg negro black < L nigrum, masc. acc. of niger black
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #136
140. Once again, I know that. I can even roll the 'r' in Spanish. But that's not my point.
Redstone
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JustABozoOnThisBus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
138. Chip Saltsman, meet Earl Butz
We need Republicans to cut their own political throats once in a while.

"But, it's alright. These things have to happen once every ten years or so...gets rid of the bad blood." - Clemenza
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #138
149. Jesus, Earl Butz! Are we the only ones who remember him?
Of "loose shoes" fame!!! Or should we say INFAMY?

I remember that it was a bit of a challenge back then to get the "full quote" and it was John Dean who gave us the full monty. I do remember that most people were, well, aghast.

Earl was also the guy who told the Pope to butt out on birth control--"He no playa da game, he no make-a da rules!" (I have to admit that I did find that one funny.

Ya know, Butz died this year, in February, before it became clear that Obama would become President. Pity he didn't hang on a bit longer....!
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whopis01 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
155. "not sure which terminology is the most polite these days"
And therein lies the problem.

As a black, african-american, colored negro it pisses me off to no extent when every word that is ever used to describe me is eventually turned into a slur. That is bullshit. Negro is not a 'bad' word. It is not an insult. There are people out there who are bigots and will turn every word ever used to describe a black person into a derogatory slur over time. Eventually everyone will be afraid to call us african-americans because that will be the term bigots and racists use. It is an effort to strip away and dignity and identity that our people have.

I'm not condoning anything related to this 'magic negro' crap. It is clearly racist. However, the word negro is not. Racism is not about the individual words that are used. Racism is about the though and the meaning being conveyed.

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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #155
159. I only meant that it was racist in that specific context. As I said, it is NOT for me to
presume to dictate how ANY group of any specific ethnicity prefers to refer to its members.

(Though I prefer to describe myself as an American Indian rather than "Native American.")

I understand what you said, and agree with it, absolutely.

Redstone
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whopis01 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-31-08 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #159
163. Well my anger wasn't (or shouldn't) be directed towards you
I am sure that you understand better than most how it feels to have yourself defined by others. I also should take care to not make it sound like this is a problem specific to people of my race. It is something that is done to every social/racial/national/etc group that someone else wants to hold down.

a funny little story - when I was in grad school there were a couple of guys that I worked - one was an American Indian and the other was from India. We used to joke about the confusion that ensued when someone would use the term 'Indian'. Eventually my American Indian friend decided that what we should do is refer to him as an 'Injun' and the other fellow as an 'Indian'. Just one of those moments when it made you realize how silly all the different terms we use to refer to each other can be at times.


Anyway - enough preaching to the choir.

Happy New Year!
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ChickMagic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
156. That jerkoff would LIKE it if black Americans lightened up!
Just like Michael Jackson.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
160. It's not so much the word as that they intended to be insulting
My knowledge of right wingers is that the only way to handle it is laugh in their face. Indeed, do lighten up. They don't really want you to - they want to feel what they believe is their rightful power over others, and that's why they do this. The way to take the steam out of their train is to laugh at them for doing it. Say you feel victimized and they will continue with it. They act like children.
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