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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-08 11:09 PM
Original message
DU's treatment of discusson about the I/P conflict is shameful....
Edited on Sun Dec-28-08 11:11 PM by mike_c
Yes, I know this post will simply be routed onto the utterly predictable path to disappearance like so many of the other comments posted today. I'm going to bed anyway.

I just wanted to get this off my chest first.

The I/P conflict is at the heart of the confluence of U.S. foreign policy and world opinion about this country and its government. It is arguably one of the central drivers of U.S. middle eastern policy. It is at the heart of neoconservativism and the impacts that misguided philosophy have visited upon our nation. The U.S. response to the I/P conflict is at least partly responsible for the 9/11 attacks-- it is likely the major reason for those attacks, and that makes it responsible in large measure for the sham "war on terror," the crimes against humanity being committed in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the emergence of Islamic power and ideological struggles as events of global importance.

How do we discuss issues of such obvious importance on DU? We relegate them to a dungeon where an obscure set of rules-- that do not apply anywhere else on DU-- virtually guarantees that most will be arbitrarily locked or deleted.

This situation has existed for as long as I have been a member of this community, which is to say almost since the beginning of DU. It was largely a response to obnoxious partisanship on the part of some individual posters-- many of whom are no longer here-- before the events of the last eight years highlighted the broader importance of discussing our nation's policies in the middle east as freely as possible.

The current policy does not serve the needs of the DU community. It leads to unwarranted censorship, whether intentionally or unintentionally. I urge the DU administrators to work with the moderators and the DU community at large to formulate a more rational approach that allows open discussion about events in the region and the I/P conflict itself, at least in relation to U.S. foreign policy and its consequences, here, in Israel and the Palestinian territories, and throughout the world.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-08 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. I agree
especially since things are likely to get much worse for Israel in the future, and that will affect us in many ways.


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az chela Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-08 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
2. Great post,highly recommend and agree with every word
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Orwellian_Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-08 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. Yes it is terrible
In light of what is occurring at present I don't see how the most important issue of the day should be kept from open discussion and the I/P forum is a way of hiding the discussion.

The consequences as you state are global.

Some of the higher ups should step in and alter the current situation here. It looks bad.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-08 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
4. Sorry I don't understand. "We relegate them to a dungeon...". Who and where? nm
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-08 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Israel/Palestine Forum
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cayuga Donating Member (405 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-08 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Majority of posts re: what is going on have been swept away to the I/P Forum
If posts don't comply with convoluted, confusing rules they get locked or deleted.
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cayuga Donating Member (405 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-08 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
5. Standing ovation!!
It truly is ludicrous how this has been handled. An event of this proportion is being censored. In our very own country, on a supposed progressive, liberal, democratic blog that should be supporting freedom of discussion.

I have endured the atrocities of the last 8 years, but this is the worst.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-08 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. We could resort to republican tactics
codespeak:

I= Narnia
P= Oz

I cannot understand why discussion of I/P must be hidden away , like a crazy aunt..but unfortunately it's always been that way :(
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cayuga Donating Member (405 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-08 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. Crazy aunt - I needed that laugh.
I also got a big chuckle yesterday when a thread about Poppy Bush being in Dallas when Kennedy was shot was swept away to the 9/11 forum. Now I have to wonder what Poppy's connection to 9/11 was! Oh wait - on second thought I don't really have to wonder that much.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-08 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
7. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-08 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. YEP
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1monster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-08 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
9. K & R... no comment needed. You said it well.
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-08 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
11. .
:thumbsup:

Good to see you're still here and working to make a difference for the better, Mr. C!

PB
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-08 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
12. Nonsense.
The I/P forum exists to facilitate discussions regarding I/P issues. The rules are necessary for the very reasons seen when they're ignored. The moderators of that forum have both the knowledge and the skill (both based on long experience) to ensure that all DUers finding it necessary or desirable to present their perspectives can do so with a minimum of interference and with a modicum of civility. (They do a damned good job, too.)

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thewiseguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-08 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. Read post No. 7
They completely deleted my thread that contained pictures from the conflict.

There is no EXCUSE for censorship. NONE.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-08 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. why do I/P discussions need a different set of rules than discussions...
Edited on Sun Dec-28-08 11:29 PM by mike_c
...about other topics? I know the answers-- I just disagree with them. Civility is civility, and we're quite capable of tolerating heated argument about health care reform and auto industry bailouts, not to mention civil rights issues like marriage equality. We can post pictures in threads about those topics, no matter how inflammatory-- well, we can post pics, anyway. More important, we can discuss TOPICS and OPINIONS, rather than just clips from specific published news articles.

Why is that level of discussion inappropriate for I/P topics? I believe it should be.
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cayuga Donating Member (405 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-08 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. Then let's get a Rick Warren forum n/t
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-08 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
14. Agreed even news feeds from the BBC, Reuters and AP are subjugated
to heavy hand.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-08 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
15. k&r
It's a critical issue, and we're being dumbed down on it continually by the media because it's "too controversial" for them to discuss in the open. We shouldn't be doing the same thing here.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-08 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
16. K&R
You make a reasonable case for more open dialog. The I/P conflict is one of the most misunderstood subjects on the intertubes. It would nice to see DU take the lead in opening that discussion to more of the public at large.

:thumbsup:
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-08 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
18. Not just on DU... the amount of IP censorship in US is abyssmal
Ironically, the Israeli media is where to go if one wants to hear both sides of the story... It seems only in Israel are journalists free to offer any degree of criticism towards the Israeli government--in addition to Palestinian authorities and Hamaz.

It isn't just wrong, it is self-defeating for any long term understanding and US initiated progress in the ME, in my opinion.
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StudsT Donating Member (310 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-08 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
19. i wonder how Obama will deal with this ongoing apartheid?
will, he continue the status quo and relegate all debate and protestations to the 'dungeon', too?

I certainly HOPE, not.

and so it goes...

StudsT
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-08 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
23. I agree but I understand why they do it
there's no civil discussion of I/P - assholes on both sides always make a shameful scene
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-08 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
24. It's akin to banning the discussion of food on a nutrition forum. K&R
The Palestinian/Israeli conflict is central to any discussion of Middle Eastern policy, and a major component of world events.

Applying "special" rules and limiting comment because it is passionate is downright Orwellian.
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-08 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
25. Damn straight.
I don't know the history of this being banished to a dungeon, but in light of its importance, it's about time for it to be let out.
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cbayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-08 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
26. Locking
From the rules:

"Due to continuing problems, discussion of Israeli/Palestinian issues is limited to the Israel/Palestine forum, and is governed by a special set of rules which are available in that forum. If a discussion is primarily about US policy in Israeli/Palestinian affairs, it is sometimes allowed in other forums. Discussion of other Middle East issues is also sometimes allowed. If a thread is on a different topic, but later goes off-topic and becomes a discussion of Israeli/Palestinian issues, the moderators may move the thread to the Israel/Palestine forum."

The moderators of the I/P forum has a special understanding and expertise on this difficult issue and the problems that may arise in it's discussion. The issue is open for discussion here, but is confined to LBN and the I/P forums. If you disagree with the current rules regarding this topic, please feel free to contact the administrators of the site directly.

If you feel this would be appropriate for discussion within the I/P forum, please feel free to re-post this there.

Cheers,

cbayer
DU Moderator
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