Pressure mounts for Microsoft to deliver with Windows 7

[DainBramaged]

One thing you don't see very often on corporate PCs and laptops: Windows Vista.
Nearly two years after introducing Vista, Microsoft (MSFT) is grappling with an unanticipated phenomenon: The latest version of its flagship Windows computer operating system remains a rarity in corporate settings. As a result, the software giant finds itself under acute pressure to stay on track with plans to replace Vista with the next version of Windows, code-named Windows 7, perhaps as soon as late 2009.

With the global economy stalling out — and with Apple Macs increasingly replacing Windows desktops and laptops in workplace settings — Microsoft can ill afford a repeat of the delays that beset the introduction of Vista. "They have to get Windows 7 right — and get it right the first time," says Laura DiDio, principal analyst at tech research firm ITIC

ITIC and Sunbelt Software surveyed 700 senior executives and found only 10% had deployed Vista in their organizations. Windows XP remained the primary desktop PC operating system for 88% of the respondents. Meanwhile, 77% reported some use of Macs, and 50% said they plan to permit wider use of Apple products, including the iPhone.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/products/2008-12-22-microsoft-vista-windows-pressure_N.htm?csp=34

[Fearless]

1. Good luck.

Seriously. I'd like to see anyone make something that works these days.

[cliffordu]

2. Don't fear the penguin.

[Greyhound]

6. Tux is the good guy, ready to save you from the ravages of idiots like Ballmer. n/t

[Fearless]

8. HA!

I fear change!

:scared:



(I always wanted to find a use for that emoticon!)

[Greyhound]

10. LOL!

:rofl:

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. There is nothing to fear, TUX will give you a modern

computing experience (depending on distro), I mean some of them don't even need the Terminal any more

(Flashbacks to DOS 3.1)

[Fearless]

15. Yeah I know...

If they can make it run well graphically (games, videos, and what not) then I'd do it. I tried it for a while, but I'm a sucker for online poker. LOL.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. Oh that is not a problem, WINE is your friend

:-)

Try Ubuntu, find a live recent distro

Synpatic will let you do the downloads in a painless way

[Fearless]

24. Been there, done that...

For me, it's about hassle. I know very well how to manipulate Windows because I grew up with it solely. I can't argue that it hasn't become more and more burdensome at times and I can't argue that it's better or worse. It's like an old pair of shoes or your first car. Even if they fall apart you don't want to get rid of them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. I started with DOS 3.1 and an AT 286

talk about WELL BEFORE the graphical interface

I used to DROOL at the Apple SE and was first in line with Win 3.1

It's gotten to the point that I just simply don't want the headaches of the Windows...

And when they roll 7... I will be waiting, and waiting and waiting and waiting until it seems to work, if we even decide to get it

[Fearless]

28. Patients is always a good policy for anything new... especially OS's

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. Two or more years into Vista and it is a certifiable piece of shit

To put it bluntly

The MAC, purrs like a kitten

The Linux, took some work but purrs like a kitten

The win... requires HOURS of IT every month

As I said, if it wasn't for them games, I'd load Ubuntu or Mandriva on it and be done with it.

[Fearless]

30. I do have Vista currently...

I was wondering what could possibly take hours? People complain and complain (not saying you are) but I've never really had a problem with it. (Leaving aside business practices of course.)

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. Virus protection, which needs to be updated regularly

and of course my all time fav, getting programs to WORK with it

To the point that two of them, got a copy for the MAC and have gotten a copy of XP to run on the MAC for THAT PARTICULAR program

Games behave though, well mostly. There are a few that we have not gotten since they will NOT run on vista.

These days it is a dedicated gaming rig

And the security settings, well yes, doing all the security updates is a pain in the pittui and there are plenty of those. Sorry, I do the IT on the home machine and I have NEVER ever seen an OS with so many security holes that require updates and some of them manual updates.

Shall I start the list, starting with FLASH (I know, that is not them, but still) and ending up with VISTA and Office back door security issues.

[Fearless]

41. Then I guess I'm living on the wild side!

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. Most users don't do any of that

and after their machine gets SLOOOOWWWWW they take it to the techs to fix. (Or wait for family to show up to do it)

Worst case scenario, you will have a HD failure... not that they would not happen otherwise, but still

Hey, the mac had A VIRUS, on the looose, count it ONE... and MAC says it wasn't... I still ran the FREEWARE virus checker on the machine.. first SERIOUS IT in two years. WEEEEE!!!!!!!!

We have yet to see a virus on linux

And of course there is the Adware, spyware and the rest of the crappola written specifically for YER machine.

Windows has all kinds of back door doors as well for them feds benefits...

But I am not trying to convince you why VIsta sucks.. just telling you it sucks.

[Fearless]

47. Meh...

I know what to do if it gets slow. If I get a virus, which is exceedingly rare with my plethora of smoothly working, auto-updating free software anti-virus (et al) programs, it'll take out the OS only as with drive partitioning I've sequestered it if you will. So I take the disk and reload the damn thing. All the files are still intact on the other partition and meet up with it when I finish. That's only happened once and the virus I got was because of user error. I downloaded something I knew wasn't trustworthy (and it wasn't porn fyi :+ ).

Frankly I'd encourage everyone not to use Vista. Then like MAC and Linux, no focus will be made on it to create viruses and the like. Because that's what it is, the systems are not particularly better (in fact much worse when talking about versatility), they just haven't been as widely tested by the virus-making community.

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. Yeah that is why Open OFfice is a world class office suite

(Not that most users use more than 10% of its capabilities or Office for that matter)

You want the safety (blanket) of Windows. fine, but as I type this many Corporate settings are adopting MAC and even some guv'ments are deploying LINUX and Open Source

There is a reason and the days of windows, if they don't get their act together, are over

Right now many of us will not look back either

[merwin]

50. Don't blame Microsoft for other company's bad programming skills.

The reason that an app wouldn't work on Vista is if it was using a non-standard way to get to the OS. If people would stick to the documented and current API's, none of this would have been an issue.

Plus, software development companies had PLENTY of time to make their shit compatible with Vista.

Vista plugged a lot of security holes and programmers who were using those holes got shut out. Boo hoo.

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. That is why we are still doing security updates every month

okie dokie, and I also mentioned the ones on MICROSOFT OFFICE

I guess their own programmers missed the memo, huh?

[merwin]

61. Did Office not work with Vista when it came out?

I don't remember that one.

I'm talking about application compatibility with Vista, not security patches. Two completely different things.

[nadinbrzezinski]

62. Yes, and... look this is bad

if you buy OUR software it will work, but if you buy a third party....

Now here is an oldie but a goodie

Windows don't ship until Lotus don't run...

Same thing, different decade

[merwin]

78. Aside from programs that didn't work because they used security holes, there were also

programs that just needed Administrator privileges to run. So if you right click and choose "Run as Administrator", then it would work fine.

It boils down to this. The main complaint about Windows was that it was insecure. Microsoft made Vista VERY secure, which required application developers to rewrite some of their code to either run under a limited user account, request administrative privileges, or access the system in a different way. They had over a year to do this.

Every operating system goes through this. There are times when an OS changes significantly to meet consumer demands, which in this case was security and stability. They met those demands, and people complain that their software doesn't work anymore because the OS is more secure.

Also, I recall several programs on OS X having the same issues when OS X came out, and when Apple moved to the Intel platform. And then there's Linux, which has application compatibility issues up the ass. Same thing happened when Windows 3 came out regarding DOS apps, when Windows 95 came out, regarding 16 bit apps, when Windows XP came out, regarding apps designed for Windows 95.

You can't have a secure and stable operating system and be fully backwards compatible at the same time. Something has to give. It's up to application developers to keep up with the technology.

[Feron]

67. Linux distros also have many security fixes per month.

I used to subscribe to the Mandriva security list and was bombarded with notifications.

Let's face it, no piece of software is perfect.

[Greyhound]

31. See, there's that M$ conditioning showing again.

OSes are supposed to work the first time, additional development is to improve it as new possibilities open up. M$ has convinced the American public that paying them to be beta testers is how it is supposed to be.

They've also got 'em convinced that an OS is supposed to just stop working every now and then, and needs to be rebooted regularly and once in a while needs to be re-installed.

Imagine if M$ ran the internet...

The Horror! The Horror!
:rofl:

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. Granted if I wanted to be a beta tester for Linux I could

but I've gotten enough headaches with Vista to last me a lifetime

[RoyGBiv]

43. M$ Conditioning in a Nutshell

When it's alpha, we call it beta and allow a few of The Chosen ones to test it. The Chosen Ones are to be called by their Holy Name of the Divine Order of Beta Testers.

When it's beta, we release it, and you buy it and become a lower order beta tester, also known as Screwed Consumer.

After years of beta testing, the Screwed Consumer will be granted another piece of Divine Fruit from the Chosen Ones as long as they have kept up with their tithes.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. I like this... FUNNNY

as a game designer I have never let out into the world things that are that immature...

(Paper and Pencil kiddies)

[Greyhound]

60. LOL! That is a very funny/accurate description, thanks!

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

A five smiley reply if ever I saw one.
:fistbump:

[DainBramaged]

56. Me too. I remember swithcing from floppies to a 4MB hard drive

and 512KB of memory was amazing.

[backscatter712]

55. Ubuntu's cool, but try Linux Mint.

http://www.linuxmint.com/

Linux Mint is a derivative of Ubuntu, designed so that everything, and I mean everything Just Works straight out of the install. Burn the iso to a CD, boot the CD, click install, use the partitioning tool (I know, Ubuntu did it first, they're using Ubuntu's tool) which lets you non-destructively resize your Windows partition to make room for Linux, set the time zone and create your user account, watch it install. Remove the CD and reboot, log in, and you're set!

Unlike stock Ubuntu, Mint includes things like libdvdcss (illegal, yes, but with it, you can watch your DVD movies on your Linux box, Flash, Java, lots of codecs, OpenOffice, Firefox, Thunderbird, etc.

[Greyhound]

22. Graphics? You want graphics?

The power of the Penguin will not be denied.:hi:

[Fearless]

25. HAHA!

I sincerely hope for your sake that global warming doesn't wipe them out.

:rofl:

[cliffordu]

11. LOL.... Microsoft Vista: A 64 bit fake of a 32 bit patch of a 16 bit

kludge of an 8 bit operating system by a two bit company who never could handle one bit of competition.

[Greyhound]

14. Yeah, that about sums it up.

Oh, add the theft of the first one.

[cliffordu]

18. Yep - they gave the guy they stole it from a 'window job' at M$ -

a job that basically had no responsibilities for a paycheck -

They threw THIS bone at him after being embarrased in the geek press because the guy was bankrupt and partially disabled (IIRC).

They never DID pay him one tenth of one percent of what they SHOULD have.

[Greyhound]

27. You're an old geek too. IIRC that is correct.

In fact, I can't think of anything they've ever developed that was even as good as what they ripped off in the first place.

I remember when Vista first came out, all their "cool new features" were just knock-offs of what Linux did 10 years ago, except they required twice the horsepower to do it half as well.

[BlooInBloo]

23. Oddly enough, my first serious foray into linux will be thru the dev google phone...

It's coming tomorrow - woot!

[cliffordu]

3. All microsoft has to do to fix their stupid bloat of an OS is

make a Linux distribution with a Microsoft skin and call it a day.

[Greyhound]

4. We told you so.

Not you specifically.:D

Vista was, and continues to be, a disaster. At HP we tried to implement it in order to support it and could not get sufficient performance and compatibility for even the small Vista group using brand new systems to use it. We ended up rolling them back to XP, which is far from perfect itself, just so we could help our big customers. You mere consumers got India and Costa Rica reading a script.

[Selatius]

5. Asking Microsoft to get it right the first time is like expecting Bush to be competent.

It's a long-shot at best.

[Fearless]

9. I believe you're giving Bush too much credit.

:evilgrin:

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. If hubby was not a gamer, we would have gotten rid of all

windows in this house already

I happily work on a mac or a linux box

And every-time I have to do IT on the vista machine I take two aspirin preemptively... it is guaranteed to give me a headache

Yes, Linux might not be for the faint hearted, but once I got it working the way I wanted to... I have no issues with it anymore

[Greyhound]

19. The sole reason I keep Win2K pro on this box.

Once I can't play on this anymore that will be the final bit of microshit in this house.

[merwin]

52. Vista is a headache until you get used to it's security flow.

All of the hard-links to other folders for backwards compatibility is a confusing mess, but it's easy to work on. A Windows Server 2008 domain with Vista computers are so much easier to manage in a corporate environment.

Unless your LOB software has issues with Vista, or you don't have the hardware requirements. I don't see a reason not to go to it.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

12. They are pushing out updates for XP now...

That break all updating on both 32bit and x64 XP. Reliably. If I have seen it once, lately, I have seen it 20 times. Go through the list of fixes for Windows Updates? Not a dime's worth of difference. Just an hour or two of your life you will never get back,

Something tells me Mickeysnot has decided to take a clever, clever tack with EOL'ing XP.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Have a copy and still debating about the MAC and tools

there are a couple programs that REFUSE to run under virtualization and don't run well under vista

[RoyGBiv]

20. Out of curiosity ...

What's refusing to run?

I don't doubt you at all, just wondering.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. Dreamweaver will not run on the primary account

no matter, we ended up getting a copy for the mac

The other is Pro Fantasy Campaign Cartographer. It is so bad I seem to use GIMP or Painter to do my maps these days...

[RoyGBiv]

33. Not sure about Dreamweaver ...

I've never tried to get it running under VirtualBox, which is the virtualization software I use. Not sure why it wouldn't work.

The problem with the latter looks like it my be the .NET implementation.

Not that this helps you, just saying.

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. Oh the latter it is the company, not MS

it is an ANCIENT DOS 8 bit code, that they have been updating as the years go by... well they didn't test the sucker on any of the beta vista running around when they were developing their latest, or rather updating it... so yes, NET is one of the issues with it, but just one of them.

As an end user in a 64 bit machine I got tired of getting given the run around by these guys. after all it seems to work under 32 bit, and not loose layers

As to Dreamweaver, I got the MAC version... it runs.. it works...

[anigbrowl]

32. Yawn...I've been hearing this since thays of DOS 3.5

Vista's main problem is that most of the improvements are under the hood. It's awesome for faster computers, but a lot of people don't need that level of power. Next version will have more UI toys and everyone will complain they're trying to shut everyone out.

[Greyhound]

37. Your faster computer is severely handicapped lugging

the unbelievable overhead along for no benefit.

Unless you consider


Benefits
:rofl:

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. WHich addresses the hours I spend a month

see above

[Greyhound]

39. I suppose it could be considered job security for the IT people that do still have jobs. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. I guess, by the way the MAC has a virus checker on it,

not commercial, but we have had our FIRST lovely mac virus... not yet to be seen in Linux

And that graphic does not even address the back door security problems that I have to close every so often.

Ah the joys, not looking forth to the fifteen hours or so it will take to fix my mom's puter when we go visit.

At least that is XP, easier to fix

[anigbrowl]

44. You're doing it wrong

1. Don't use Internet explorer. I like Firefox or Chrome. Firefox is more w3c compatible, Chrome is faster.
2. Spybot search & destroy: http://www.safer-networking.org/en/index.html It's free, and it just works.

[Fearless]

48. I'd also consider a free anti-virus and firewall program...

I'd suggest Comodo for a dual purpose... AVG if you want only anti-virus.

All of the above update themselves and you don't have to do anything with Comodo as it is very quiet and searches all incoming data.

[anigbrowl]

42. I'm guessing you don't run any software that would like 4gb of protected memory

I have vista on one machine and XP on another (this one, as it happens). I don't have problems with unfriendly malware like viruses...perhaps because I made my system secure?

[Feron]

69. If you properly secure your computer,

then your chances of getting infected are remote.

Improperly secured computers, no matter the operating system, connected to the internet are easy pickings for malware authors and crackers.

[Greyhound]

70. Any unix-like OS is inherently secure. There is no anti-virus software for them as it is not needed.

even if infected, the OS forbids root access so any damage that might be done, in the unlikely event of an infection, is isolated to the directory it has entered.

M$ has subjected the world to such security obscenities as OLE-COM-DCOM (none of which work) and the ever popular activeX control that allows anybody to do anything to/with your system.

While I don't subscribe to their theory, I can certainly understand how people come to the conclusion that M$ and the anti-virus companies deliberately leave their software vulnerable.

[moriah]

53. Vista is a resource hog, no wonder businesses don't want it.

If I had my druthers, if Windows 2000 was still getting security updates, I'd likely run Win2k Pro as my OS. XP supports 64bit processors just fine so there's no reason for business customers to upgrade to get more functionality out of their equipment -- it is such a resource hog that they actually get less.

My company finally started providing Vista corporate image builds for us, and we still have the choice of using XP or Vista. I chose XP. I can get booted up and logged in faster at work than the people who went for the Vista image on the same model of laptop. I'm happy.

Not to mention businesses are scared shitless of any Windows build that hasn't had Service Pack 2 yet....

[merwin]

54. That's only considering hardware performance.

You also have to consider the cost of management. Server2008 w/Vista domain is a breeze to manage. Throw SBS/EBS 2008 into the mix and it's even easier.

[DainBramaged]

58. I'm testing Vista basic right now on this system at work.

seems fine so far. 2 gig of ram, AMD 4800 dual core. Integrated 7100 Nvidia graphics. I'll keep you posted.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

57. Maybe I'll wait for Windows 7, Service Pack 1

to fix some of the stuff that arrives broken on Windows 7.

:hi:

[ChromeFoundry]

59. "They have to get Windows 7 right — and get it right the first time"

The only way to get an OS "right" is to redefine what it is. If it is an Operating System, then it should deliver the functionality of managing hardware for the purpose of hosting applications. Windows is no longer an operating system. DOS was an OS, it shipped with no applications to speak of. Windows has a built-in Internet browser, a mail client, word processor, calculator, Games, terminal and remote desktop applications, rich media player, as well as countless other crappy applications. If these applications were not included in the operating system, the OS would cost 20-bucks, and would not have so many security holes.

[anigbrowl]

66. Same is true for Linux and MacOS

You can get kernel-only Linux distros, but 99% of people opt for one with a full driver library and a desktop environment...hence the popularity of Ubuntu.

[DireStrike]

75. You're going too far in the opposite direction

Driver libraries, yes. Bloated programs that I can find better alternatives to on download.com free... no.

I want an environment that runs my software, not just the hardware. The software I'll mostly get from somewhere else.

[anigbrowl]

79. Yeah but most people want some applets to get started

I only ever use notepad and the calculator, but actually I think Windows is still pretty light compared to MacOS.

[Downtown Hound]

63. There are two major problems with Vista

Number one, compatibility. It has too much trouble playing nice with other programs. I've installed stuff on XP with no problem that with Vista was a freaking nightmare.

Number two, it's a RAM hog. Why would a business spend so much money on updating all their computers just to run Vista when XP does everything they need and they already have it?

[anigbrowl]

65. It's not a RAM hog

It uses your AM differently from XP, treating unused RAM as a cache. Otherwise your empty RAM is sitting there consuming power while doing nothing. It's actually a superior system, but it's not immediately obvious why.

[Downtown Hound]

71. Excuse me?

It takes a minimum 512 MB just to be able to run Vista. And that's the minimum. It really takes more like 1 gig to get it to run smoothly and 2 gigs if you want to do anything fancy on it. While that may not be a whole lot by today's standards, it's enough to make most businesses look the other way when they already have XP running smoothly doing everything they need. Vista is okay if you have a decent system, but companies don't want to shell out thousands of dollars on new computers just to get a new OS that they don't need.

[sellitman]

64. MS lost our household when Vista came out.

I bought a Mac, bought my daughter a Mac and installed Umbuntu on our old Sony Vaio.

My son's laptop is the only Windows based computer left and we protect it with Avast.

[lib2DaBone]

68. I'm stuck with this crappy VISTA.... and a Crappy HP Computer...

..Vista Windows lock up all time. Vista will not recover from a sleep mode. Updates make no difference.

Haven't had this much fun since my dial-up days on AOL when every window locked up.

[Rosco T.]

72. The problem with Vista is that they made a 32-bit version...

.. instead of just sticking with the 64-bit version as it was designed.

I've got 3 machines running 64-bit Ultimate and it is VERY smooth, VERY stable and VERY FAST. But then 64-bit was what Vista was designed for. The 32-bit version is a joke, has to spend most of it's time getting out of it's own way.

I used to be a Vista hater, but then got a HP Laptop (very nice, and very good experience with it) with 64-bit Ultimate and I was amazed. You still have to neuter a few things (turn off that dammed UAC) and get SP1 in.. but I repeat.. 64-bit is good, 32-bit is bad.

[nadinbrzezinski]

73. Hmm we have 64 and it drove ME to Linux and MAC

I guess mileage will vary

[Gore1FL]

74. I don't recommend turning off UAC

Once you get used to it, it isn't that big of a bother, and it provides a nice layer of security.

[RedCappedBandit]

76. *continues to use xp* nt

[IDemo]

77. Vista comes on all replacement PC's at the corporation where I work

They were offering a choice of XP or Vista for a while, but no longer.

I turned my old XP box into a Linux Mint machine, and it's the one I use for 80% of my work.