How about a ten dollar tax for trips of less than two miles?

[taterguy]

Sure it would be a gross invasion of privacy and unfair to people with disabilities but how else are we gonna convince people to get off their lazy asses and use something other than a car for every damn trip they make.

If you've got a better idea I'd love to hear it.

[eleny]

1. Why not 4 miles or six miles? Whatever *you* can handle ought to be the norm

:eyes:

[taterguy]

3. Because it's 2.1 miles from my house to my job

[Warren Stupidity]

2. raise the tax on gas and subsidize mass transit

[itsrobert]

4. So, if they drive a half mile out of their way to avoid the $10?

It's all good?

[taterguy]

6. A $500 penalty for trying to pull that shit

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

112. and how will you know they are pulling that &%$@?

[Hangingon]

5. I think it is a hell of an idea!

Who will collect the tax? How do we enforce it?

[taterguy]

7. Enforce with the GPS chips that are hidden in everyone's cell phone

[doc03]

17. Wouldn't that be an invasion of privacy? 1984? Why not

just check peoples papers like they did over in East Germany and if you are out of your sector off to Siberia.

[BuelahWitch]

18. all the more reason to stay cell phone free!

:puke:

[Hangingon]

21. My memory is getting bad as I age.

Were we mad at W. for spying on American phone use? Do we make NSA part of DOT?

[NoPasaran]

49. Cell phone? You pansy ass bleeding heart!

Implant the chips in everyone's foreheads. They could also be used to monitor cholesterol levels so those leading unhealthy lifestyles can be identified for re-education camps!

[Bucky]

111. Such a small way of thinking. Why just "monitoring" chips?

Wouldn't it be a lot more efficient if the chips in their foreheads not only detected high cholesterol, but actually had the ability to release cholesterol fighting chemicals into the blood stream whenever a citizen-unit got up to unacceptably high levels in his system?

Or better yet, timed-release doses of mood altering drugs could be controlled by those same chips every time a citizen-unit became unhealthily aggitated? Think of all the bar fights and crimes of passion you could prevent! As the NRA says, a well drugged society is a polite society!

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

109. People would just leave their cell phones for short trips.

[taterguy]

110. . . .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4685088&mesg_id=4685125

[greguganus]

175. A 10" x 10" piece of aluminum foil wrapped around your cellphone will stop that tax. n/t

[flvegan]

8. Congestion charge.

Like parts of the UK has.

:hide:

[Occulus]

9. I can't afford $200 more a month.

Buses don't run in my town after midnight. Cab fare is a crime.

Whaddaya want me to do- bike five miles in the winter?

[taterguy]

12. I suggest brushing up on your reading comprehension skills

My OP says the tax only applies to trips of less than two miles

Even round trip five miles would be 2.5 miles.

[gollygee]

16. What about people who purposely moved close to everything to save gas?

Michigan is cold. There are three feet of snow on the ground right now. If I need to go to the grocery store, I can't take a bike. Plus, in another month, I'll be transporting not just a little kid, but a little kid and a baby everywhere I go.

[gollygee]

10. I'd better move out of town so I can afford to go to the grocery store then. n/t

[Speck Tater]

11. No action required on our part.

When gasoline hits $10.00 a gallon people will cut back.

[taterguy]

13. The short trips will still be cheap

[surrealAmerican]

103. Only compared to the longer trips.

Most drivers are smart enough to figure out that a bunch of short trips are more expensive than walking.

[taterguy]

105. Most drivers are willing to pay a little for the convenience of not having to exert themselves

A two mile trip costs a few pennies in current gas tax, depending on where you live.

How many people do you know that can be induced to do something for such a paltry sum?

[dipsydoodle]

14. I think it might come that

sooner or later. I do think however that those physically disadvantaged would get expemptions as most probably the aged too.

[taterguy]

23. The Lazy Ass Lobby is way too powerful for anything like this to ever be implemented

[gmudem]

172. Well it's 20 something degrees out with a foot of snow on the ground

So you can call me all the names you want but I'm not walking or biking 2 miles in this crap.

[Realityhack]

180. Agreed.

I live about 3 miles from work. This past summer I started biking to work on days when I was not leaving directly from work for a further destination. But I won't be doing it during the winter (Boston area). Another person in my office does. More power to him. But I don't think it is too unreasonable not to.

Honestly I think a better solution is an increased gas tax used for programs to offset emissions etc. As we saw with the high gas prices over the summer this would encourage alternative commuting styles, can actually be implemented, and also encourages different priorities when replacing a vehicle etc.

[Xipe Totec]

15. Unenforceable

How would you figure out who should pay?

Besides, are people who make short trips a problem?

I would think those who make long commutes would be more of a burden, don't you?


PS: I just did the math, I'm 12.6 miles from work. I'm on public transportation all the way.

[glowing]

19. Sure, the grocery trip with a 4 yr old will be really pleasant. spend money to spend more money.

BTW, the grocery store is only a mile.

[TripleKatPad]

20. I wish I lived 2 miles from my job

I would walk gladly. Used to do it when I lived in big cities.
But now I am 6 miles from my job, and that's just a little too far a walk for me. But I am an admitted wimp. Maybe I need a pep talk from my parents about how they walked 10 miles to school, uphill both ways, with no shoes.

[taterguy]

26. In all seriousness a six mile bike ride would be easy

But I'm sure you'll retort with some lame excuses about weather and road conditions

[cali]

36. bwahahaha. yeah, snow and ice and below zero are just lame

excuses not to ride your bike. idiotic.

[taterguy]

40. I was responding to someone that lives in Mississippi

Not a lot of snow and ice there

[CreekDog]

a six mile bike ride is NOT easy

i live on a hill, and i bike ride with one pedal. frankly it's brutal.

[ProfessorGAC]

57. 6 Miles Is, I Agree, Nothing

However, i live 11 miles from work. It's all divided highway. 55mph or more. 80,000 semis. Gravel shoulders.

I know it's over your 2 mile rule, but me riding to work on my bike, even though i could, would be dangerous beyond reason.
GAC

[Missy Vixen]

160. We're in the midst of a winter freeze

over a foot of snow on the ground, and NOBODY is out due to road conditions. The store is 1.5 miles from our front door, and only an IDIOT would be on a bicycle or on foot right now on a rural, hilly road.

Why don't you tell the rest of us what we should be doing again?

In the meantime, mind your own business, please.

Julie

[greguganus]

176. GPS chips in sleds. Grab the bumper of a slow moving 4x4. lol. n/t

[cali]

33. If you lived here, you wouldn't walk.

Nothing like below zero for days and days to cure that impulse.

[yodoobo]

22. Sounds fine. I'll just go around the block a few extra times

Sure I'll burn some extra gas, but it'll be cheaper than throwing away $10 dollars.

[taterguy]

28. Good citizens read the fucking thread before posting

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4685088&mesg_id=4685125

[yodoobo]

59. eh $500 wouldnt be enough to discourage it

The chances of actually detecting that sort of thing would be 10,000 to one.

Think of how many times people speed vs actually getting caught.

You would have to have a total police state to effective police this sort of thing.

[varelse]

63. You would have a have a total police state to effective police this sort of thing.

Pretty much, yes :/

[tech3149]

24. Not to rain on your parade tater, but have you thought of the effects

of a plan like this? The people who would be most affected are those have the least resources to deal with the burden and those that plan for an environmentally prudent lifestyle. You have to remember that most parts of this country have squat for mass transportation and we've spent decades segregating our communities so that residential, industrial, and commercial are disassociated from one another.

You didn't state the objective of your plan, so it's hard to present an alternative. If the object is to raise funds and force more ecologically sustainable behavior, why not institute a tax based on the efficiency of the personal vehicle? The lower the fuel efficiency, the higher the tax rate. If I had mass transport available, I wouldn't need a personal vehicle unless I chose to keep one. I chose my last apartment based on the fact that I could get anything I needed in a 2 mile radius. Does it seem reasonable to ask me to foot the bill for wasteful sorts because I chose to organize my life in a more efficient manner?

[ljm2002]

25. So a $10 surcharge whenever I go get groceries?

No thanks.

[taterguy]

27. A $10 surcharge when you use a motorized vehicle to get groceries

It's up to you to decide if pursuing other options is worth ten bucks.

[PeaceNikki]

31. That's reasonable in 14" of snow.

:eyes:

[taterguy]

32. Where I live no one leaves the house if there's that much snow

[PeaceNikki]

35. Not everyone lives where you live, Sparky.

[greguganus]

177. sparky. lol n/t

[cali]

42. Where I live, there's already more than that on the ground.

It snowed yesterday, it snowed today. It'll be snowing most days over the next few months. Wanna come shovel?

[gollygee]

44. Where I live, it is sometimes like that for weeks on end

And people have to eat.

[Realityhack]

181. I leave the house when there is that much snow.

You are making a LOT of presumptions in this thread.
How many groceries can you carry with a child on a bike? How about two children?
How much of the country has significant freezing for long periods?
How much of the country has dangerously high heat for long periods when the government actually advises AGAINST outdoor exercise?
Ever take a car one mile stop then go 20?

Your rather juvenile proposal is ridiculously unenforceable and without a clear well articulated goal.

[Pavulon]

37. Sounds like a tax id cheat

just like the ipod tax or some soda tax in nyc. Find a gypsy cab, street seller of stuff (cigs, etc), or other means to bypass a silly tax.

[WinkyDink]

68. Oh, nifty. I guess you've never lugged three or four full bags?

[taterguy]

73. A full back pack plus a gym bag over the shoulder

Chips and bread in small bags I can carry with my hands

About 25 pounds, several times.

[WillowTree]

147. Sure, because that would work for everyone.

I mean, with two back surgeries under my belt already, lugging 25 pounds of groceries home (which does happen to be uphill, by the way) would be downright therapeutic now, wouldn't it?

[ljm2002]

71. Hmmm, let's see...

...so I get 7 bags of groceries, some of which is refrigerated or frozen goods, I should take a bike? or a hand cart?

Also -- in the summers here it often stays above 110 or even 115 for a week or more at a time. Yes, that certainly makes sense. Maybe we could just forego the frozen and refrigerated foods altogether, after all it's just a modern indulgence.

I don't dispute that we need to come up with various ideas to address our energy consumption and production of CO2. I just don't think this is the right one.

And by the way -- while I'm not the greenest person around, by any means, I have taken various steps including 90% of the lights in the house are CFL (only exceptions are where I could not find a CFL bulb that fit), and I work at home so hardly drive much at all. But I do need to drive to the grocery store and don't see a lot of realistic alternatives.

[NoPasaran]

50. Don't be silly

Just shop at a more distant grocery store!

[SouthernVoter]

187. We would each be allocated a grocery store we had to use.

Your GPS chip in your phone would know if you used another one.

Sounds like a plan to me

:sarcasm:

[JVS]

140. Pfeh, just drive to the grocery store on the other side of town

[cali]

29. wow. mega stupid on so many different levels.

first of all, how the fuck do you police something like that? Oh, that's right, it's completely impossible. Secondly, you try fucking taxing people in Alaska or MN or SD or VT who are driving 2 miles in 30 degrees below.

Idiotic to the max. A clear case of posting without thinking.

[PeaceNikki]

38. Plus it's REGRESSIVE.

[cali]

41. that too, not to mention that it's fucking insanely dismissive of

people with disabilities and seniors. Plain out and out prejudice against those folks.

But mostly it's just fucking stupid to the max.

[JCMach1]

99. Exactly... the worst of the impact would hit poorer people

The OP smells particularly libertarian...

[CreekDog]

30. so it's okay if it's unfair to people with disabilities?

are you serious?

[taterguy]

34. No plan is perfect

[CreekDog]

39. there are laws to protect the disabled, this would violate them

now what.

what's your plan B?

[tpsbmam]

47. No plan is perfect? Thanks a whole hell of a lot.

You're discriminating against people who statistically have the least monetary resources. This tax-paying American (as I do have savings from my decades of working full-time despite my disability) will now tell someone on DU for the first time to go to hell.

I can't walk at all without the use of a walker. I can't walk with my walker more than about 1/10th of a mile, if that. And if I do walk that far I pay for it by having to go to bed for about 3 hours afterward. I'm constantly met with non-accessible places and idiots who are clueless about disability (e.g., one recently told me to look for an electric cart at the other end of a HUGE store.....hello asshole, if I could do that, I wouldn't need the fucking cart). I'm adding yet another clueless, crass person to my list.

[CreekDog]

61. he's not answering your point about the disabled and he's not answering my posts about that issue

so, you may have to infer his meaning.

[tpsbmam]

75. His hobby is "cycling," so I guess everyone is supposed to be like him and if not

screw 'em. There are times that I wish people like this would be severely disabled....only for a couple of months..... and have to get around as they normally do. This is one of those times. Sadly, it's also people like this who don't frigging realize that they're one car accident (or bike/car accident) from being disabled.

[CreekDog]

76. he doesn't care or he wouldn't have glibly suggested something unfair to the disabled was acceptable

and when pressed refused to answer why.

taterguy doesn't care. yet he got upset when a thread about what kind of car one owns didn't include bikes.

so he does care, about *some* things.

[fudge stripe cookays]

169. Or a chronic illness....

I'm with ya, hon. I have MS.

I've attempted to point out to this sanctimonious jerk numerous times that those of us with disabilities can't just pick up a bike and ride everywhere like he can. I only get more attitude.

We're all selfish to him. Never mind that I'll never be able to ride a bike again. Half a mile walking, and I have to go home and rest. Let alone going to the grocery store.

[mentalsolstice]

153. Yep, if we can ever get rid all the other bigotries...

We'll have the disabled to pick on, and it will always be perfectly acceptable. My father-in-law once told me to my face that disabled people deserved their circumstance...I've been disabled from birth.

[greguganus]

178. Your walker causes extra wear to our roads. You will have to pay an extra $5 for road tax. n/t

[CreekDog]

64. your plan is DOA

think of a new one, until and unless you become dictator.

[CreekDog]

43. So the OP admits it's a crappy idea but let's do it anyway

:eyes:

I think I get it.

[taterguy]

45. What's your better idea smart guy?

[cali]

46. gosh, how about encouraging car pooling? Or even providing

incentives for car pooling or using public transportation. that's better than your hare brained "idea". And give me a few more minutes and I'll come up with more.

It's not hard to top abject stupidity, smart guy.

[taterguy]

52. Car pooling only works for people with similar taste in music and compatible work schedules

[cali]

54. OK, now I know your thread is a silly goof

nevermind.

[CreekDog]

67. If i recall, the OP doesn't own a car, he owns a bike

so i'm not so sure this post is in jest.

although not in jest, i believe it's quite glib.

[Realityhack]

183. Given his responses to objections I doubt it is in jest. n/t

[greguganus]

179. LMAO. "similar taste in music". ROFL. n/t

[Realityhack]

182. Taste in music?

Now who is being unreasonable. Bike to the grocery store below frezing with no sidewalks and cars skidding around... but oh nozzzzz don't make me buy a personal music device for the car pool... I just can't take it.

God forbid we just increase gas prices across the board because it is actually enforceable and works. We certainly shouldn't consider using general tax money that isn't regressive to increase public transit access and build renewable power plants. Obviously we should come up with an unreasonable, unenforceable, tax on short trips that is as regressive as possible and will actively encourage people to shop further from home having the opposite effect from the one you want.

[CreekDog]

48. how about something not unfair to the disabled?

hey, do you disagree with that?

[taterguy]

51. That's a question not an answer

[cali]

53. I answered you, wise guy.

you seem to be avoiding that.

[CreekDog]

55. i'm happy to give you a suite of answers (which I have a raft of) when you...

explain why something that you have said is "unfair to the disabled" is acceptable.

and believe me, my solution is more fair, more passable and would be more effective than your poorly thought out idea.

knowing environmentalists and some bicycle advocates as well as I do (and i am both actually), there is an all to frequenty tendency among these people to out and out ignore the presence of the disabled. to say things like "everyone should get a bike, nobody should take an elevator, etc."

when challenged, they will occasionally admit they only meant the able bodied but their statements routinely ignore that other than able bodied even exist. and that's upsetting.

if you only knew where i worked.

[taterguy]

56. Just post em anyway

You're just dying to show everyone how smart you are right?

[CreekDog]

58. i want you to explain why an idea that's unfair to the disabled is acceptable

i don't claim to be smarter than you.

now are you going to back up your idea that's "unfair to the disabled" <----(your own words) or not?

[taterguy]

60. You can't always get what you want

[CreekDog]

62. and neither will you

[taterguy]

86. Ok, I admit the part about the disabled was an insensitive goof that was in very poor taste

Now will you tell me what your plans are for discouraging people from driving when they don't have to?

Puuleeeze?

Seriously.

[CreekDog]

117. Okay, you got it. :o)

a slow phase in of increases in gas taxes, congestion charges (where they would help traffic flow) with funds raised from those going to more efficient forms of transportation. in urbanized areas, congestion charges (starting out low) would go to build and fund alternative mass transit systems and expand existing service.

in less urbanized areas, the funding would expand mass transit where feasible, but because low density is not going to be changed in any near timeframe, funding of alternative transport, more energy efficient, more infill project incentives so that people even out in the burbs don't have to travel as far to shop, school, etc.

over time as infrastructure is built, as systems are improved and expanded with smaller fees that raise funds but don't inordinately harm people who need to commute, transport kids, shop, etc. more efficient ways will be built and fees can be raised further but those alternatives will be much more useful and perhaps desired anyway because of investment beforehand.

and in the meantime, incentives and requirements for auto fleets (alternative energy sources for example, lower energy use, etc.) will develop means to support transportation in lower density areas (which will still exist). there are lots of people living in the exurbs and some will still be there --private transport will still exist for them but it can be far less polluting and far less consumptive.

don't forget that the Clean Water and Clean Air Acts implemented environmental regulations incrementally and did a phenomenal job while still allowing people to maintain their standards of living. nothing that does otherwise is going to pass in a democratic society. for many businesses that were big polluters of water, the restrictions on polluted discharges gave the companies reason to not only pollute less but use less water and come up with alternatives.

anyway, that's my 30 second approach.

[kiva]

161. Hmmm....an unenforceable, arbitrary tax that would unfairly penalize

many people OR a thoughtful plan that takes into account that different regions need different ideas--such a difficult choice. OK, your plan wins!

[ProfessorGAC]

81. Perhaps One That The Originator Doesn't Call Bad

It would seem only logical that a plan presented by someone proud of it, and thinks it is a solid, workable idea would be one to listen to.

Your idea is none of those, and even you think so. You said it yourself.

So, how are we supposed to think it's a good idea, when you don't.
GAC

[Midlodemocrat]

65. Why do you hate me so?

:cry:

I already drive as little as possible. My van, purchased new in November, 2006, has 16,000 miles on it including a trip to Albany and Myrtle Beach and Georgia.

[taterguy]

66. It's envy not hate

But you probably knew that already

[Midlodemocrat]

69. *smooch*

The van came in handy today. The garbage folks didn't arrive and we had a ton of stuff to go to the dump as well as to recycling and hazardous.

Poor, poor Mr. Midlo. better him than me. Oh, and he filled up my car with that smelly liquid that makes it run. TM couldn't figure out how to do it because it doesn't have an inside release lever like the Toyota. :eyes:

[taterguy]

74. When my neighbor miss the garbage man they just let it pile up

Much to the delight of scavenging animals that hang out in their back yard.

[Bucky]

78. You lazy poke. Why didn't you just fucking walk to Myrtle Beach?

Would that hurt you? I mean more than Tater's burning scorn does?

[Midlodemocrat]

80. You're right. A six hour drive in the van

with all my stuff is an easy 4 day walk.


:rofl:

[taterguy]

87. You drive past all the gorgeous NC beaches to go to Myrtle?

And people think I'm the crazy one around here

[WinkyDink]

70. Newsflash: "Americans discover all sites 2.1 miles from their domiciles. Story at eleven."

[SeattleGirl]

72. Sure! I'll bet the disabled, injured, blind, and those otherwise not

able to walk two miles to get to a store will just LOVE that idea!

Good grief! Can people not understand that sometimes people drive because they are not capable of walking two miles? That there may not be bus service close to their house?

How about this for an idea? Instead of putting energy into a dumb (and for some, undoable) idea, use that energy to pressure the government to get off the time and get to work on really bringing alternative fuels and electric-powered cars into being for more than just a few people?

Or to increasing public transportation?

Sheesh.

[Bucky]

77. I'll think about that next time I'm driving down to pick up my newspaper from the curb

[dysfunctional press]

79. fine with me- i live three miles from the nearest store.

btw- how do you enforce something like that? especially if i walk it?

[ZombieHorde]

82. Your idea would be very rough on single perents,

and everyone who lives in places where the weather gets very, very cold.

With the wind chill, the temperature was -30 to -40 degrees Fahrenheit, in my town last week. At least that is what my TV told me.

[Sanctified]

83. I would prefer a 10% tax on Organic food.

Most people who eat organic have the disposable income to throw away on a tax.

[cali]

88. WT F? That's as loony as the OP

Way to kill my neigbor's small farm. Way to kill off much of what remains of the family farm.

[taterguy]

89. At least my loony OP would serve a purpose

Other than spiting rich people.

Besides, organic farms are much better for the environment than most of the other ways that food is produced.

[cali]

90. yeah, but your looony proposal would kill lots and lots of people.

so your loony ass proposal is actually worse.

[Sanctified]

100. Sorry, that was my point.

It's crazy to think you can tax people just because you disapprove of their habits and I was trying to point out to the OP that if you turned the tables and taxed something that is considered Good it may have a negative effect on himself to the point that he would see how crazy it is to propose taxing something that obviously would not affect him.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

127. I eat organic food, and I don't have disposable income

I just think that not ingesting toxins is a smart thing to do.

[KamaAina]

84. Law of Unintended Consequences: That would promote exurban sprawl

as people fell all over themselves trying to move someplace that was more than two miles from anything. :P

[Realityhack]

184. Yep. You would actualy SAVE money by shopping for groceries...

further away. So instead of taking a car one or two miles to the store people would drive three or four to a different store. The extra gas for another few miles would not add up to $10. No way to enforce it. Basically the dumbest idea I have heard in months.

[Synicus Maximus]

85. There is a Publix about a mile from my house

but for $10 I would drive to the Korgers about 4 miles away. Is there going to be some agency that dictates that I have to shop a Publixs instead of Korgers?

[Cid_B]

91. Speaking as someone who just had knee surgery...

... aside from the total inability to enforce such a thing it takes a good bit of effort to get to the other side of my house let alone a mile. *looks out the window* Look! It's snowing!

[taterguy]

92. How often did you use something other than a car for short trips before you had knee surgery?

I apologize in advance for asking a question with no way of enforcing penalties if your answer is a lie.

[XemaSab]

93. Where do you live?

'Cause I'll be damned if I walk to the grocery store when it's 105 out. x(

[taterguy]

94. Celsius or Fahrenheit?

Where do you live where it's 105 every day of the year?

[XemaSab]

96. Redding

x(

[taterguy]

98. I thought that was the Garden of Eden

Or is that a different part of California?

[CreekDog]

107. In Redding, 105 would be Celsius

:evilgrin:

[I Have A Dream]

95. Won't work here; cars will run you down whether you're walking or riding a bike.

There are no sidewalks, and there aren't even areas on the side of the road for a person to walk. (Who in the hell designed these roads??) There are winding, hilly roads where a car wouldn't even see you until it hits you.

Next idea? :P

:bounce:

[taterguy]

97. Link please

Please post news stories of pedestrian fatalities in your area

Unless you're just being overly dramatic to rationalize laziness.

[I Have A Dream]

125. Yes, that's me... I'm just a drama queen.

I speak the truth. I have no need to prove anything to you.

:bounce:

[taterguy]

138. You don't have to prove anything but I won't believe you until I see some evidence

When was the last time someone posted something on the Internet that they just made up?

[I Have A Dream]

156. That's OK. You don't have to believe me.

:D

[lame54]

101. How about a $1000 fine for stupid suggestions?

[taterguy]

102. Who gets to define what's stupid?

[cali]

104. How about by consensus?

now pay up.

[taterguy]

108. There are over 100,000 registered users on this site

I'll cut you a check when more than half of them call me an idiot in this thread

[Individualist]

116. Hear, hear!

I was going to suggest a $50 tax for insensitive asshole posts, but I like your dollar amount better.

[Xenotime]

191. Ok. We will start with you. Pay up NOW!

[aroach]

106. I buy over 50 pounds of pet food at a time...

So I'm supposed to lug home two 18 pound sacks of cat food and a 20 pound sack of dog food all while trying to keep my kids from getting run over since there are no sidewalks?

I also buy two weeks worth of groceries at a time but my grocery store is less than two miles away.

Actually, I usually do both those runs in one trip.

I don't think I can carry all of it. I better find a grocery and pet food store further from home.

[Bucky]

113. Look, if you did lug that much weight around, think of what great shape you'd be in

Don't tell me that it doesn't better serve society's interests if you were to get into really great physical conditioning. It would be double-plus good, citizen!

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

114. How about we just install a chip in peoples brain?

That way whichever administration is in power can force people to do what they want. Dems in charge everyone recycles, conserves natural resources, etc. Repubs in charge missionary position only and then just for procreation, wanton waste of our natural resources, etc.

David

[Posteritatis]

115. I'd love to hear of a *worse* idea, if just because it'd take some work to conjure one (nt)

[taterguy]

122. How about we all just stop giving a damn about the air we breathe and the planet we're destroying

Would that be a worse idea?

[AngryAmish]

118. They already have that. It is called "The Delaware Turnpike"

More BS from the worst state in the nation.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

128. Oh snap

[AngryAmish]

129. I gotta say i'm pretty proud of that one...

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

132. When LostinVA and I were doing the long distance thing, I fucking hated driving through Delaware

It costs like what, $8 for 20 minutes of driving.

[JNelson6563]

119. Ok, here's why not...

Here where I am there are only sidewalks in the downtown neighborhoods. We have much snow and by the busier streets it's mighty high from the plow. Imagine walking through that very deep snow, even just a half a mile. Young, healthy and strong? Then imgaine you aren't or that you have a couple of little ones who have to come with.

Yes, such a thing might work for some in some areas but not for all everywhere.

Julie

[ileus]

120. Ban the individual owned petro motorcar.

[NutmegYankee]

121. What a F#$%ing stupid idea.

Lets just start producing plug-in electric Hybrids instead. You can't bring back groceries for a family in winter on a bike. I live in New England bud, it's too cold to to do some dumb thing like ride a bike through the freaking snow. You know what that is called: Suicide.

[NeedleCast]

123. Hooray for Regressive Taxation

Can't have enough regressive taxes!

Really, I don't know if you were serious about your suggestion or not as you often post over-the-top stuff like this, but it's a terrible idea.

[lumberjack_jeff]

124. Boy, am I ever glad I moved 10 miles from the nearest grocery store. n/t

[Ikonoklast]

126. In honor of the stupidest idea ever thought up by a person that hates cars,

I started my Suburban and drove fifty feet to the end of the driveway just to get the mail today.



It felt good.

[Fenris]

131. I love you.

[SeattleGirl]

137. Me too.

[taterguy]

139. Me three

[dflprincess]

130. I'd love to see you walk 2 miles into the wind

when it's blowing hard enough to create a -30 windchill.

[EstimatedProphet]

133. How about you take a 2 mile bike ride on a short pier?

[taterguy]

134. I leave my bike at home when I go to the coast

Saltwater and sand are bad for it.

But here's a gratuitous pic of a fairly long pier

[Realityhack]

185. +1

[Waiting For Everyman]

135. Car use isn't the problem, the fuel is.

I'd say focus on what is the point, instead of what isn't the point. As far as I know, alternative fuels are being worked on.

But consumption is much more in the commercial sector than by individuals anyway. That's often forgotten, like with emissions. There again, the biggest part of the problem is mostly ignored.

[taterguy]

136. Well that's certainly easier than actually doing anything

[JVS]

141. All your plan would do is make people move to the exurbs...

or to do most of their shopping, working, etc. on the other side of town. If I live 3 miles from town, then I have no reason to worry about the tax.

[taterguy]

144. People do not move just to save on transportation costs

Was there a massive exodus away from the suburbs when gas was 4.50 a gallon?

Uh, no.

[PeaceNikki]

151. If people could have sold their homes there would have been an exodus.

It's -7 F here today with 35-40 MPH gusts of wind and 16 inches of snow blowing around, why don't you be a peach and pedal your ass up here to grab me some groceries?

[elleng]

142. Aside from everything else,

impossible to enforce, without riduclously intrusive and hateful 'neighbor brigades.'

[BlooInBloo]

143. I heart tongue-in-cheek stuff.

[WillowTree]

145. So how does this work?

I usually try to do most of my errands, any that I can, anyway, on my lunch break during the week: pick-up cat food, the occasional notion or two at the fabric store, pick-up stamps or mail a package at the PO--Right now that works out well because my office is right on the edge of a major mall and I can shop for just about anything I need in the area without doing a lot of running around and burning a lot of gas.......and time Do I get nailed for each of those trips? Actually, that won't be such an issue 'cause the office is moving in a couple of weeks to an area with less considerably less adjacent shopping.

But I generally do my grocery shopping on the way home from work. The market is less than a mile from home. I suppose the trip to the store would be OK because it'll still be over 2 mi from the office, but will I have to pay $10 to get my stuff home? And what if I stop to get my scripts from the pharmacy that's between the market and home? That would be $10 to get from the pharmacy to the grocer and then another $10 to get home?

I bought my car new in March, 2001. As of yesterday (when I drove less than 2 mi to get my radiator flushed because with my work schedule I can't do such things during the week.......there goes another $10), it had less than 55,000 miles on it. Considering that's been my sole mode of transportation for going on 8 years now, do you think I'm burning more than my fair share of gas as compared to the general population?

I just love the way some people think they're qualified to judge other people's needs and circumstances and how they should be punished for them. I mean, I really do.

[taterguy]

152. Almost everyone in the US is burning more than their share of gas compared to the global population

[WillowTree]

154. How many people do you know...

....who drive an average of less than 7,000/year? Not many, I'll bet.

[taterguy]

157. The fact that most people drive too much is why I made my proposal in the first place

It's really not that complicated.

Do you aspire to average or do you aspire to the best that's possible?

[LWolf]

146. Just wondering:

I had a conversation with a family member today about walking to work. It's a little less than 2 miles.

The family member walks in good weather. The conversation today was about the advisability of trying to walk that almost 2 miles in single-digit temperatures, with snow drifts covering the sides of the road, forcing walkers onto the road itself, very close to the cars that are slipping and sliding along.

What do you think? Drive, stay warm, or?

[WillowTree]

148. Third choice.

Find a job within 2 mi from home that only requires you to show up in good weather.

See? Problem solved!

[LWolf]

149. Damn. I never even thought about that.

I should have; I once lived 2.5 miles from work when I lived in the Mojave Desert.

I drove. Heavy wind, blowing sand, and extreme temperatures were bad enough. When I tried riding my bike, I got to work fine, and then, having to pedal straight in to the prevailing 20-30 mph wind that blew regular as clockwork, every afternoon, and getting off the bike finally to DRAG myself and the bike into the wind and the oncoming dust, sent me back to the car without debate.

I should have found a job I only had to show up for in good weather. I only would have worked in May and October. :D

[DainBramaged]

150. So, the poor and eldery pay

to go those two miles? I take my 92 year old Mom less than two miles to the grocry store and pharmacy once a week giving her a chance to get out, should she or I pay so she gets off her "lazy ass"?

How sad and ignorant.

[mentalsolstice]

155. Tater, I like you.

But sometimes you can be a real ass.

[taterguy]

158. I do what I can

:shrug:

[mentalsolstice]

159. Some of us just don't live in the same world as you do.

My husband is a cyclist (Canon mountain bike, Trek road bike). Yet he can't do what you do. 1. We live 30 miles from his job (farther if you don't go by interstate, but he motorcycles). 2. We're not in a bike friendly area, no sidewalks, no bike lanes, and a lot of cycling deaths per year, because it's a sport here to run down cyclists (rednecks ask, what's with those tight bike pants?).

We're both cycling advocates. We donate to rails-to-trails, encourage bike lanes, etc.. I myself, love to pedal even though I have a disability (from birth, no, I'm not just lazy, I have moderate cerebral palsy). However, in our neighborhood and immediate shopping area cycling just is not safe. The nearest grocery store is on a big boulevard with no sidewalks or cycling lanes, and a bikers only choice is to get right out there in the vehicular traffic, going 40-50 mph, and immediately crossing over through 3 lanes to turn left. And my disability makes it impossible for me to walk it, and carry groceries back.

Your post today clarified a lot...you only ride 4.2 miles to and from work, in a cycling-friendly area....oh, we should all be so lucky. Based on your pictures in the lounge, now I've got a much clearer picture, you don't really ride very far every day (fuck it, in a safe cycling-friendly area, I can ride that far, but I don't know about dragging a weeks worth of groceries back), you're a smoker and you're 30-50 lbs. overweight. So you're not really a true cyclist like my husband who regularly rides 50+ miles per ride and does several centuries per year. And I just showed my hubby your archived photo, he said to tell you to stop bragging about the cycling shit, you give true cyclists a bad name.

Again, I'm glad you can cycle to work, but please stop harassing the rest of us about it. BTW, at the beginning of every week I plan out all my errands (in my economy car, see my sig line), and we're VERY conscientious about consumption and recycling. So maybe with a little bit more awareness on your part you'll realize that we all have different capabilities and ways to achieve the same outcome, which is a greener, healthier planet.

Another question, you have a wife and kid(s), right? How do they get around? Does your wife transport the kid(s) to school and after-school activities and errands via a rickshaw? What about when the weather is bad?

Because most of us aren't as lucky as you brag that you are, according to you we should have regressive tax. Maybe your post was tongue-in-cheek, and you forgot the sarcasm thingy. Whatever, a mea culpa and an apology for your extreme insensitivity today, could put you back to the lovable guy that likes to sled nekkid in the snow. How 'bout it?

[taterguy]

168. The thread was mostly a silly goof that seemed like a good idea at the time

Kind of like naked sledding.

I do genuinely believe that excessive automobile usage is a problem.

The insensitivity was just a tool to get people talking. If I had played it "straight" there would have been a couple replies and the thread would have sunk about 2 hours after I started it Friday evening.

Instead, over 100 people couldn't resist the temptation to call me an asshole. In the process, a few folks (most notably Creek Dog) accepted my challenge to come up with better ideas. That's why I started the thread, to get people to exchange ideas about what I think is an important subject. So there's my explanation, if not apology.

Here are a few responses to specific things you said:

I don't live in a bike-friendly area. There are only a couple bike lanes or paths and most of them don't actually go to destinations. My commute includes a congested four-lane road that sane motorists avoid. Just to make it really fun there's also a bridge with no shoulder and an occasional animal carcass to dodge. Cycling it is a calculated risk but one that I'm willing to accept. I see my neighbors alone in cars traveling similar distances. Naturally that gets on my nerves since it just seems like a monumental waste.

I'm not sure what the definition of a "true cyclist" is. I do a fair amount of recreational riding. There's a nice multi-use path near my house and when the spirit moves me I'll do a 20 mile loop on it. I go on long road rides occasionally. Once or twice a year I try to make it to the New River Trail and spend hours ogling the scenery. I don't own any spandex pants since they don't have a place for smokes but I do own a couple pairs of padded shorts.

I don't have kids. Don't you know what spending too much time on a bike seat does to male anatomy?

My wife usually walks too work.

Lastly, I've lost about 30 pounds since the photo you mentioned was taken. However, in the holiday spirit I double dog dare you to tell anyone else on this site that they're 30 pounds overweight. It'll be fun. I promise. Unless of course you don't want to be accused of being insensitive.

:toast:

[fudge stripe cookays]

170. .

Instead, over 100 people couldn't resist the temptation to call me an asshole.

Because you insist on proving us right every time you post a thread like this, and especially when you make light of people with disabilities.

You really need a hornet enema.

[taterguy]

173. Has anyone ever told you that you have anger management issues?

I have never wished physical harm on anyone on this site.

And yet I'm the asshole?

[fudge stripe cookays]

174. You don't think it would harm those of us...

with disabilities to put up with your ridiculous idea? Either physically or financially?

And save us your protestations. You post this stuff to get a rise out of people and it works.

I call em how I see em. Not everyone has your freedom to bike, but you continue to lambast us in multiple threads. I didn't ask to get this fucking disease, and I didn't ask for your attitude. Neither did anyone else who can't bicycle everywhere. So just stop. It's that easy.

[Zuni]

162. here is what I think

I think there should be a ten dollar tax for being a fucking crotch sniffing douchebag.

I'll drive wherever I want, thank you. If I don't feel like buying a bicycle and riding around town in 15 degree weather or 95 degree weather, that is my business. If I don't feel like looking like an asshole with a bicycle helmet and reflector strips, that is also my business.

[OwnedByFerrets]

163. Go for it. You be the first. Send your state 10 dollars

every time .......oh hell, this is so fucking stupid, I cant even come up with a satirical comeback.:rofl: :rofl:

[CBGLuthier]

164. Should my 17 year old daughter walk home at ten at night?

This is really, really one of the stupidest entirely NOT thought out things I have ever read.

That and your dismissal of the effect upon those with disabilities is a really good clue that your idea is shit. Absolute and utterly shit.

[Sheets of Easter]

165. How about a $20 self-important asshole tax along with a 7 mill douche levy?

[SoCalDem]

166. How many people would be hired to collect the tax?

or does each driver get a ride-along minder to watch the odometer, and then demand the cash:)

[LSK]

167. we had a high of 1 yesterday, a high of 10 today, 4 inches snow tomorrow

Do you think we will have some cold weather exemption???

Taterguy, WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO LEARN THAT NOT EVERYONE HAS YOUR LIFE?

[Lugnut]

171. How about......

No. I'm disabled. Try again.

[Hamlette]

186. you can't force people to change

but you can nudge them. Taxes on cigarettes helped get fewer ppl smoking but peer pressure was a bigger factor for many.

A combination of a change in life style, peer pressure and gas tax would probably help but American cities are not made for walking. A two mile walk to work in a European city would take you passed the grocer to buy dinner fixings and most everything else you'd need. Not so here. We need subways and better city planning. Shoulda put big town squares in all cities here but forcing it now won't work.

[SouthernVoter]

188. How about a ten dollar fine for wasting DU bandwidth with stupid ideas like this

I mean, the money to run the site is needed, right? It costs more money to run a site that needs more storage space, right? More threads means more storage space, right? More stupid ideas means more responses calling it stupid, right?

I think the logic works. Well, as well as your logic at least.

[taterguy]

189. Welcome to DU!

:toast:

[SouthernVoter]

192. Thanks. It looks fun around here.

LOL

:toast:

[carlyhippy]

190. ha! why don't you come up here to n MN and try walking or biking 2 miles today...

right now it's -22 F with a wind chill of -44 f. There isn't a mass transit here in hooterville, I wish there was, I wouldn't have to start up my SUV and let it warm up for 20 minutes before leaving for work, I am down to averaging 10 mpg right now with the warming up fuel wastage.

My idea is the whole northern tier of states be abandoned in November, everyone have an instant job further south, work during those winter months someplace warmer, then in March everyone move back to business as usual....we probably use more fuel up here than anyone because this place is inhabitable in the winter months without tons of heating fuel and electricity to keep us all from freezing to death. Buffalo and the Native Americans used to leave this place when it got cold, we should only be so smart....

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

193. You might need to add some exemptions to that rule.

Exemptions for the aged
Exemptions when it snows
Exemptions when it's cold outside
Or when the wind it blows

Exemptions for the disabled
And for the obese
Exemptions for Aunt Mabel
And me, and Fran, my niece