transforming the world depends on facing into the polarization, even bringing it to a head

[BlancheSplanchnik]

Obama has increased national attention on this issue, by his choice of speaker. The public discussion this is creating, and Obama's firm stance that he is listening to all perspectives is exactly what I think is necessary to create change. I mean change that comes from people opening their eyes.

Eyes can't open when there is only yelling and screaming; they can't open when the issue is swept from view. And, they can't open when there is no leader exemplifying a higher perspective on the issue as a whole.

I believe Obama's leadership will always move in the direction of growth--respect and inclusion. Lessening suffering. And, because this issue has brought on such outcry, Obama will have to display his leadership and even grow personally in his vision.

This is a major learning opportunity. Maybe some who cling to these wrongheaded ideas will even gain a moment of clarity beyond their brainwashed state, that WARren's brand of hate is NOT what they truly want.

And maybe even some, like myself who hate the religious right as a matter of course and fervor, can take this moment to soften our own reflexive anger.

I recommend Lucky13's post too--it really got me thinking about my own uncompromising intolerance towards the religious right, and the brainwashing that controls them.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7999540

[patrice]

1. Thanks for this. RW is very personally problematic for me too.

Not because I am Gay, but because I've ALWAYS hated ALL forms of Oppression. I guess to the point that instead of FREEING the Oppressor I am, and others also are, now oppressed by my/our own hatred of Oppression.

[ananda]

2. United we stand..

.. divided we fall.

Until we all unite against all forms of oppression..
including homophobia.. we are all oppressed.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

11. true.....

but I wonder if after we declare that oppression is hateful, could we ask ourselves if we might possibly be divided within ourselves?

I'm just thinking out loud, but I notice that as much as I want unified respect for everyone's value, I can so easily plunge into that hateful mindset--against those morally wrong people. But then, aren't I practicing my own internal disunity? It's easy for me to feel angry about how I disapprove of them. Much harder to consider that though they are grossly wrong, so might I be operating on a similar (though "less wrong") wavelength myself.

[patrice]

24. If the Civil Rights of the Gay Community are predicated upon the assumption that their difference

should be respected, that principle does not function unless it is accorded to those who are different from the Gay Community. We can't claim that Difference should be respected and then NOT respect Difference.

So this comes down to your definition of "unite".

With the caveat that as long as everyone is being Honest, NEITHER side in this can claim respect without according respect to the other side. It is quite simply crazy to say Difference should be respected as long as it MY Difference the way that I define it, so everyone should unite my/our way. All that does is proove to the Opposition that you DO INDEED require, not only that they recognize Civil Rights for Gays, but you ALSO require that they agree with your perspectives on it 100%. They win.

[Uncle Joe]

3. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, BlancheSplanchnik.:thumbsup:

[BlancheSplanchnik]

8. we need to be the change we want to see

Obama by his example, has inspired me to make my small attempts, and in the case of the right wing, that is not easy for me.

I'm glad you appreciated my thoughts.....

:)

[Uncle Joe]

12. I believe it takes a transformational leader to

reverse the changes from another transformational leader.

I also believe the only way to change any object or dynamic is to incorporate it into the transformational process if you leave this out, it will always be alien and as such will eternally find ways to undermine that from which it was excluded.

Peace to you, and welcome to D.U.:hi:

[BlancheSplanchnik]

20. thanks!

How would we know what we don't want if we don't first experience what we don't want?

But after recognizing that, continuing for too long to point the angry finger at it yelling, "YouSuck" only creates upset in me, and doesn't pave the road for change.

It's really tough to incorporate/transform something we are against!

[Critters2]

18. The change I want to see is full equal rights for gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender Americans

and their families. Giving power to the religious right is NOT change.

[patrice]

26. I've changed my mind on this. I support the Gay Community, but I will give RW whatever respect he

EARNS.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

4. I don't know. I subscribe to Hume's theory about humans -

the majority are conservative in that they dislike change. As long as things are tolerable, most people won't push for any sort of change. It's only when things become intolerable, generally precipitated by a sudden, jarring event that they begin to demand change. Once that change is achieved, the cycle starts again.

Warren's selection is definitely precipitating a vocal reaction from the nation's GLBT community and its sympathizers, but I don't think anything that will arise from this will cause any minds to be changed. The only silver lining I see is Warren's losing stature among the evangelical community (which has already begun).

[BlancheSplanchnik]

6. Warren's losing stature from among his brethren is PERFECT

That's exactly a beginning to opening the national mind. Just a little, just a few, is a good start.

[Fumesucker]

23. Warren is losing stature because he is percieved as too *liberal*..

Which means someone worse will come along and pick up where he leaves.

[xchrom]

5. where are the specifically anti-african american personalities

for this inaugural?

[BlancheSplanchnik]

7. I don't have an answer

but I wouldn't be surprised if this issue comes up at some other time--and I hope it does. Just as I would hope the issue of anti abortion misogyny comes to the fore, where the issue of the lives and deaths of women may become visible.

Right now, I hope the humanity of gay people is filtering in to people who may never have been motivated to think of it before.

[musette_sf]

10. are you kidding?

all this does is send the signal, to the people who have never been motivated to think of the humanity of gay people, that THEY ARE CORRECT in their beliefs! they get that they are ENTITLED to continue their bigotry. they got rewarded for being bigots - one of their bigot leaders was given a place of honor at the inaugural!

i'm sorry, i don't get in any way how the bigoted followers of a bigot are going to get that they are bigots because they were rewarded for being bigots.

edit: but don't forget! there will be a gay band in the parade! that makes everything okay! :sarcasm:

and ps: Warren also stands for forced-birth misogyny. so it's a two for one special for bigots to celebrate.

[Mari333]

14. YOU said it!!! its just giving HONOR to bigotry..

again, they would NEVER put a known racist up there....

[BlancheSplanchnik]

15. it's not the reward for bigotry

that may show the bigots that they're bigoted. (Great turn of phrase, btw)

It's the backwash this whole thing is creating that may change a mind or two. As Liberal Lurker said, WARren is already losing stature within the evangelical community. That is DAMN good!

one last thought comes to mind...Of COURSE I would have preferred someone like Rabbi Micheal Lerner or Peace Pilgrim or Daisaku Ikeda (oops, not American), or the Reverend Irene Monroe or Hazel Henderson (hmmm, not a Religious)....
but that's not what we got.

I'm trying to see the best view of it possible.

[SammyWinstonJack]

25. !

:applause:

[readmoreoften]

9. I'm sorry but this is not some "brilliant plan" to bring all Americans together.

And this issue could not be more at the forefront of people's minds already. It's on the cover of NEWSWEEK, for godsake.

If Obama wanted an open debate to expose the religious right, he'd have a gay person speaking at his inauguration alongside Warren. He doesn't. Once again he is giving the hatemonger the right to speak and giving some secondary, symbolic position to "his base." This is the typical Hannity and Colmes style abuse of progressive issues.

Seriously, Obama supporters who condone this are beginning to sound like battered children who believe their parents beat them to teach them a lesson. Obama is a politician. It's time that people stop treating him like a deity or an enlightened dictator and start seeing him for what he is: a politician who tries to get and keep power by standing in the middle, who has a really, really good speechwriter and is a fairly likable, very attractive and personable guy.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

16. it's what we decide to make of it. Obama just served to bring it to the fore. n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

27. Well said!

Obama is a politician. It's time that people stop treating him like a deity or an enlightened dictator and start seeing him for what he is: a politician who tries to get and keep power by standing in the middle, who has a really, really good speech writer and is fairly likable, very attractive and personable guy.


:thumbsup:x3

[Greyhound]

13. Do you think this asshole is going to go up there, and with the whole world watching,

start spewing the shit he advocates in his profit center?

Sure, if he did that would expose him for the scum he is, but that is not going to happen. This will only legitimize his insanity as "mainstream", attract more crazies to his flock, and will further diminish us in the eyes of the world.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

17. I do agree, no way will he reveal his true self up there

but it's coming to light anyway, isn't it?

[Greyhound]

22. I don't think so. Consider that the overwhelming majority are not getting

any of the information that we are exposed to here. They will simply see this leader of one of the largest churches in the country delivering the invocation and assume he is representative of what is acceptable.

If it comes from the mouth of their God (TV), it is so.

[Odin2005]

19. Encourage polarization? you are INSANE.

The whole Warren BS is just confirming more and more my visceral dislike of Culture War histrionics, part of the reason why I supported Obama in the first place way back in '04.

The OP's attitude is part of the problem. Screaming "you are an evil bigoted bastard" my be telling them the truth, but practically it doesn't help anything.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

21. huh?

facing or confronting something that is happening (i.e polarized reactions) isn't equivalent to encouraging it.

it's kind of like this: If you have a nasty pussy abscess, you can't do much until it comes to the surface.