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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:05 PM
Original message
Backfired
Some feedback on a forum from evangelicals on Warren being chosen to lead the invocation.

From Billy:

I was very disappointed when Rick Warren gave his pulpit over to Obama a year or so ago, concerning the AIDS epidemic. Obama is an unapologetic supporter of unrestricted abortion, which has been responsible for more deaths than all the years of AIDS. A little leaven leaveneth the whole loaf, and Mr Warren should realize that the leaven of compromise is the beginning of unending compromise.

From Anonymous:

When I first saw this headline, I thought it was a joke. For a man like Rick Warren to give the invocation for a man that has pledged to sign the Freedom of Choice Act is beyond the pale. Moreover, the Orwellian concept of social justice with which Pastor Warren is so enamored belongs in the dustbin of history. To the trained ear, social justice is nothing but political cover for yet another failed government-run welfare program. I am a Christian trying to live a Christian life, and I feel no guilt for my disdain for the latest civil-rights fad called social justice. I do not believe that anyones compassion for Gods children must be directly proportional to his or her support for wasteful government programs that do little more than ensure reelection.

From Anonymous:

This is one swearing in of a President I will NOT watch..especially with the sickening thought that Rick Warren will be there saying Lord knows what. His way and Obama's do not meet.

From Anonymous:

I have had about all I can stand of Rick Warren's double standards. WHOSE side is he really on anyway? I'm beginning to think all he cares about are his questionable political connections. When I saw your article announcing his participation in "that one's" so called inauguration ceremony it absolutely sickened me. It isn't enough Obama is so full of himself that he "thinks" he's God. - Apparently now Rick Warren believes he is too. This is a complete mockery of all things sacred.


http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/504326.aspx


Cant wait to see the cbn forums tomorrow.


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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. Change sides and these comments sound exactly like so many of the
comments I have had the misfortune of reading here at DU.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. The difference being that one group is legally discriminated against.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. The other side believes they are saving murdered babies
what's your point? Both sides believe they are right and the other side is evil. That is not a healthy attitude for people in our nation to have.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. As a lesbian, I am personally affected by laws against me.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Which demonstrates the futility of igniting this controversy- especially at this moment in time
when what the nation most desperately needs is a return to reason.

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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Reason would be the end of the intolerance and hatred
exhibited both here and at the Free Republic. Catering to that hatred and intolerance is not going neither sane nor reasonable.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Yep. Like I said, responding to hatred with more hate only breeds more hatred.
Edited on Thu Dec-18-08 09:20 PM by Odin2005
What is needed is dialogue. Only dialogue can make evangelicals see that gay people are PEOPLE, not agents of Satan or whatever.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Exactly!
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PVnRT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
51. Obama can dialogue with Warren anytime
Why give him this enormous stage? Symbols mean things, unless you really are too starstruck to see that.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #8
58. Nothing we have came from "dialoging" with our enemies.
Did Brown vs Board of Ed happen because the NAACP 'dialogued' with the Klan?
Does abortion exist because pro-choice women "dialogue" with the men from Operation Rescue?

I call bullshit. Everything doesn't get put to a vote. Everything doesn't get lobbied. Some things happen by sheer political fight.
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
59. These idiots (yes, they are idiots) think homosexuality is a sinful lifestyle choice.
There is NO reasoning with these fools, and they will NEVER vote for our side. What is so hard to understand about that?
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. No- reason would RECOGNIZE that certain postions are FACTUALLY incorrect
and that certain political and socialogical processes are inevitable and inate in human nature.

Rational nations work to ensure that fundamentalists (and their agenda) are relegated to the fringe- and not granted national prominanence- and honered- on momentous occasions.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Explain how all your positions are "factually correct" and all dissenting opinions are not?
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. "relegating" so large a demographic is a perfectly recipe for making them more fanatical.
It's NOT the rational thing to do.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. err.... they're already FANATICAL
and delusional.

And yes- the rational thing to do is to relegate them back to the fringe- and as far away from having any sway over public policy (or even the appearance of influence) as possible.

Let 'em in the door- and as we've seen, we get Terry Shaivos and endless fights over evolution, womens' health care, you name it.

Time for a change- or (as was once said on the Republican end: elections have consequences).
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. Warren is fanatical and delusional too n/t
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. Right only their side has fanatics
:eyes:
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. Depends on the issue
For example, there's a cadre of anti-vaccination crusader on DU (and throughout the progressive community).

They also need to remain relegated to the fringe- rather than elevated to national prominence.

This isn't always a partisan deal- though in many areas- right wing fundamentalism for example, it invariably lines up that way.





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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #27
47. There are too many to relagate to the fringe.
relegating evangelicals to the fringe is like the folks in Lebanon trying to relegate Hezbollah to the fringe. Won't work.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #47
56. Hardly
We're probably talking about < 20% of the population are deep end fundies- including kids, though one can quibble about the exact numbers and breadth of definitions.

And the idea ought to be to shrink that number (or hold it in place) not promote its increase.

ESPECIALLY as it applies to issues of public public-
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #5
30. Get real. You're looking at posts that use words like "leaveneth"
and expecting these people to REASON?

:rofl:

You're a riot.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. well do you think stupid comments are going to do anything more
then lower my opinion of you?
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. Well, my opinion of you couldn't possibly get much lower
in fact, I was almost shocked I forgot to put you on ignore from the primaries.

Fixed!
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #39
52. LOL
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #30
41. My suspicion is that Americans have become so jaded
that they no longer appreciate appalling (jaw dropping) things when they see or hear them.

Living abroad- where there aren't fundies mouthing off everywhere you turn- where there's no hate radio and the media doesn't promote a culture of lies, gives one some perspective on just how far off the deep end some people in America have (acceptably?) gone.

(This is even true between certain regions in the states).
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
21. wrong place
Edited on Thu Dec-18-08 09:34 PM by Harvey Korman
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. But it does show how this was a genius move by Obama.
This may split reasonable evangelicals from the fundy nut-jobs. The fundy nutjobs are to far gone to change their minds when it come to same-sex marriage, but I think the more reasonable evangelicals can be made more tolerant. Shunning them will just drive them into the hands of the nutjobs.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. Actually, it's difficult to conceive of a STUPIDER move at this point
than to have reignited unecessary and foreseeable conflict- and then having to go around engaging in damage control before even having been sworn in!

All this does is draw the battle lines even brighter- the anti-abortionists (those who fight agianst Warren's holocaust) -and the creationists- they're not going to be swayed by this (or any other effort at appeasement).

If 25 years of dealing with them hasn't taught the Democrats that, then one has to figure than nothing will.

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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
53. Can I have some of what you're smoking?
Have you been alive during the past thirty years?
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #53
63. I was born in 1986.
Edited on Fri Dec-19-08 03:49 PM by Odin2005
I've suffered through listening to culture war BS all my life. I'm sick of it. people screaming "EVIL BASTARD" at each other with nothing constructive getting done.
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
11. it only shows me
that these people will not ever vote for obama, whether rick the bigot warren is on stage or not . all obama did was create a huge rift in his own party. these people wont change.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. He isn't driven by self interest
he doesn't need them to vote for him. He needs them to open and up and listen to reason. Gay rights will come the way all other rights came, by society becoming enlightened, not at the point of a sword. The only way you enlighten is to TALK not ATTACK.
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #14
32. For the love of God, he's a politician
of course he's driven by self interest.

It's one thing to open a dialogue, it's another one to endorse a bigot by giving him a prominent role in your inauguration.

But then I'm just one of those "nuts" who believes in social justice.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. If what you said was true, he wouldn't have run for office
since he stands a very good chance of being killed in office. I guess you will need to coem up with some other way to dismiss Obama's noble actions.
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. It's a pity he isn't Catholic
we could ask the Pope to start the beatification process now.

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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #14
54. Can you provide an example of this ever happening in history?
Do you seriously think that the southern United States "became enlightened" and that's why African Americans are not slaves and have civil rights today? I've lived in the south for thirty years and I'm here to tell you that if some of these white folks down here didn't have to obey laws "at the point of a sword," if you will, they'd act like it was 1845.

Did the world stop Hitler by encouraging him to "open up and listen to reason?"

Are you on drugs? Can I have some? You live in a happy little fantasy world.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #11
43. "these people"? So you lump all Evangelicals into one group. You are wrong to do so.
Not all people who give credence to Rick Warren fall into one neat category.
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. you are right
not all evangelicals are alike. I will post more responses from an array of evangelicals when i find them. if i find any that decide to vote for obama because he chose rick the bigot warren to speak, i will post those too.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #45
49. If you read this Mari, thanks for checking those forums. I haven't the patience
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gravity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
13. Proof Obama is doing a good job
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. yes, his choice of rick warren really changed their minds n/t
:eyeroll:
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gravity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. He just gained the support of the 80% in the middle
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. got a link to that? n/t
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gravity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. nope
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #22
44. got a link that says not one of the people who like Warren are capable of opening their minds?
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. Im working on it
when I find it I will post it. or if you find it before me you post it.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. Mari, IMO the election results of 2008 have already proven some Evangelicals will start moving
Edited on Thu Dec-18-08 10:20 PM by cryingshame
to the left on social issues.
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. fine, then why would we need a fanatical hate filled bigot to lead an invocation?
to bring the rabid bigots to our side?
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #20
55. In what fantasy world?
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #20
60. That's a pretty big shot in the dark unsupported by any evidence. But hey, it's your song.
:shrug:
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gcomeau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
16. I've got news for you...
...the extrmeme fundamentalist far right not liking this is NOT actually a "backfire".
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. reach across the aisle, change some minds,
it isnt working. it wont work.
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Kat45 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. But it's making their heads explode.
:rofl:
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. from what I have read on here lately
it was supposed to appease them and make them LIKE Obama more.
it didnt.
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gcomeau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #18
61. One little hint.
Why exactly do you assume the people on that message board are the types of minds the reaching across was intended to change? Hmmmm?

Think it over. Take as long as you like.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
23. shhhh
he is neutering the fundy influence. Look at how much weaker Warren is with the raging wingnuts....Is he busy weilding a scapel while everyone is expecting a sledghammer?
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. the whole point was to appease the wingnuts
and bring them over. even if warren is weaker to them, theres a thousand other hagees and dobsons waiting in the wings. appeasement doesnt work. especially when it costs you your base voters.
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #23
36. Exactly..but no need to whisper. Both sides are missing the irony of the point.
It took me a few days to fully appreciate the value of that political judo move.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #36
62. Thank you.. We may be the only two that "get" it...n/t
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
29. This entire thing smells
of Rahm Emmanuel. He has a LOOONNGGG history of pissing off the base and has the mistaken belief that the base will continue to support the Democrats blindly. And if Obama is relying that much on Emmanuel, what does that say about President Change?
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
40. "I am a Christian trying to lead a Christian life"!!! LOL.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
42. This is like some weird science fiction plot or a political thriller or a Shakespearean farce
Edited on Thu Dec-18-08 10:01 PM by cryingshame
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Veritas_et_Aequitas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
57. Decline and fall. nt
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