Obama fails marijuana question

[dlfuller]

Source: Wonkette

From Change.gov:
"Q: "Will you consider legalizing marijuana so that the government can regulate it, tax it, put age limits on it, and create millions of new jobs and create a billion dollar industry right here in the U.S.?" S. Man, Denton

A: President-elect Obama is not in favor of the legalization of marijuana."



Read more: http://change.gov/newsroom/entry/open_for_questions_response/

---

Will I never be free?

[Dennis Donovan]

1. He needs to be educated about WHY it's illegal...

Being a man of good sense and fairness, I'm sure he'd come around.:thumbsup:

[dmallind]

2. And rightly or wrongly, commit political suicide

I'm not a toker but I have no problem with it being legal. However that is not the issue to waste his political capital on. All thatw ould do is start another culture war and make it impossible to get anything else done.

[Dennis Donovan]

6. How so? I've seen polls in the past that show support of the repeal of marijuana laws...

:shrug:

[dmallind]

11. Yep - and polls show a majority support universal health care now too

But it would be political suicide to try and do that in one go.

What the polls say NOW and what they say after months of non-stop talking heads screaming about admittedly druggy presidents wanting to make it OK for their druggy "brothers" (don't think that word won't be used) to get high would be two massively different things.

And no the retort of being scared to do anything because of criticism would be silly. The whole point of politics is knowing what to fight and when, and how much it would cost. If you think legalizing dope is THE biggest issue we face as a nation then probably sure he could take a couple of years and force it through, then get nothing else done because of galvanized opposition and lose in 2012 because of the law and order frenzy funding his opponent.

I prefer more incremental progress and centered on more important things. Stopping federal LEOs prosecuting state medical marijuana providers is easily doable. Reducing emphasis of DEA on dope cases would be pretty easy too. Overall penalties are mostly up to the states after that, so decriminalization would be impossible as well as extremely costly politically. He could maybe get away with changing marijuana's classification. But full legalization at the federal level overriding all state laws? Not a fricking chance, and would destroy his presidency if he tried.

[MadHound]

24. Ah, yes, "incremental progress" Like that's really worked out well

NOT!

Clinton faced the same problems that you mentioned, and look at the result, a ratcheting up of the War on Drugs in order to disprove his critics and silence them. Sorry, but that's simply another way of allowing the radical right wing to control the agenda. Don't you think that they've controlled it enough.

Oh, and frankly watching our rights and freedoms disappear over the past thirty five years due to the War on Drugs is one of the more important things. Same with rolling back the Patriot Act and other Bushco limits on our rights and freedoms. But hey, you probably are okie dokie with that too:eyes:

[ZombieHorde]

174. A right delayed is a right denied. - MLK

[lies and propaganda]

22. thats ridiculous..

look at all the shit Bush got away with and then stole another election on top of it. One stance will kill him? Doubt it.

he needs to get on it though. want a shitton of money for America? LEGALIZE AND TAX HEMP & MARIJUANA!

[Sub Atomic]

46. Then he should pull some Bush-style politics

And wait until the last month of his last term and insert the language into a bill that doesn't get reviewed until it's signed into law.

Kinda like Bush did for his Wall Street buddies.

:mad:

[GrizzlyMan]

108. I do smoke it. You are spot on, unfortunately. n/t

[JackRiddler]

272. Hm, by this logic LBJ according to his own analysis should have dropped the civil rights acts.

I think you should write a letter to everyone in prison because of the marijuana laws and tell them you don't think they're worth the political capital.

[balantz]

3. He's a smart and educated man, I'm sure he knows why.

I think he should jump on it, turn the illegal industry upsidedown, and create a new industry of industrial hemp, and also legalize.

Of course the fat cats would be a little pissed having their evil little empire shut down, and hemp as a home-grown and sustainable fuel moving into the market.

[Fumesucker]

41. I know a lot of "smart and educated" men who don't know the genesis

Of some drug prohibition.

It's one of those things which just aren't taught in school and unless they have pursued the knowledge personally the great majority of people do not know.

[tnlefty]

249. I agree!

I ordered a purse, made from hemp, from www.agreatergift.org, now www.serrv.org, four years ago and I love it. I'm hard on purses and it's held up well, and I get compliments on it to this day.

Legalize it, tax and control it for those who want to smoke it, and let farmers grow hemp. :thumbsup:

[anigbrowl]

44. I highly doubt that

I'll be happy if he slashes the DEA budget and tells them to refocus their efforts...constitutionally.

[Freddie Stubbs]

95. Yes, because I'm sure that he simply doesn't know much about marijuana

[mwei924]

270. Or he could just watch Pineapple Express...lol.

At least it gets the time period about right though it doesn't go into the whole cotton vs. hemp issue.

[DUlover2909]

4. OK, what about just not enforcing the law? Bushco did that all the time.

[Freddie Stubbs]

28. Most people in jail for marijuana were convicted under state laws, not federal laws

[uncle ray]

42. federal law is being used to trump state law in states that have chosen decrim.

until the feds lay off, it doesn't matter what the states choose to do.

[onehandle]

5. Fails? I think he just wants to be re-elected. nt

[sellitman]

7. He has much, much bigger and more important tasks that need attension.

Not that I would be against it but this is not what I want him using his political Capitol on now.

Not by a long shot.

[SammyWinstonJack]

15. I'll bet those who have been imprisoned for personal use of pot, wish he would use his political

sway to de-criminalize it. :shrug: Putting people in prison for pot use is insane.

But gotta keep those FOR PROFIT PRISONS in business, cheap prison labor is very profitable.

[kentuck]

8. It needs to be "de-criminalized" - not necessarily "legalized"...

People should not be in jail for simple marijuana possession.

[Dennis Donovan]

9. ...or for growing small amounts for personal consumption.

:thumbsup:

[reggie the dog]

133. or for selling truck loads of it

to resellers who distribute it to hash bars so that people can buy their personal consumption stash.

[John Q. Citizen]

13. How do they simply possess it unless someone cultivates it?

[John Q. Citizen]

10. Obama knows what Nixon knew. You can't outlaw being young, being black or rock & roll but

you can outlaw the common denominator.

Pot is the perfect way to oppress and control. It led to the difacto repeal of search and seizure laws in America. And with Obama voting for FISA immunity, I'm not at all convinced he cares much about the 4th Amendment.

[Fovea]

226. It is the litumus test

for all other arbitrary systems of social control.
If they can maintain it, they are maintaining control of the working class.

[tabasco]

239. Great post.

You speak the truth.

[grahampuba]

12. Scalpel - check..

Didnt Obama say he was going to go into the federal programs and cut ones that were ineffective?

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2008/12/03/einstein-insanity-and-the-war-on-drugs/
"Albert Einstein defined insanity as doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results. His definition fits America’s war on drugs, a multi-billion dollar, four-decade exercise in futility.

The war on drugs has helped turn the United States into the country with the world’s largest prison population. (Noteworthy statistic: The U.S. has 5 percent of the world’s population and around 25 percent of the world’s prisoners). Keen demand for illicit drugs in America, the world’s biggest market, helped spawn global criminal enterprises that use extreme violence in the pursuit of equally extreme profits.

Over the years, the war on drugs has spurred repeated calls from social scientists and economists (including three Nobel prize winners) to seriously rethink a strategy that ignores the laws of supply and demand.

Under the headline “The Failed War on Drugs,” Washington’s respected, middle-of-the-road Brookings Institution said in a November report that drug use had not declined significantly over the years and that “falling retail drug prices reflect the failure of efforts to reduce the supply of drugs.”

Cocaine production in South America stands at historic highs, the report noted."

[immoderate]

14. I think it needs to be framed as "ending prohibition."

We need to stop the insanity.

--IMM

[JuniperLea]

77. Best pro-pot post on the thread!

The medicinal usage needs supported above all, and we do have a lot more important issues at hand than ending any kind of prohibition, but you are absolutely correct in that this needs to be the leading statement.

[Fireweed247]

118. good point

People would be pissed if someone made their alcohol illegal....

Alcohol causes the largest number of traffic accidents/deaths

Alcohol known to be physically addictive

Alcohol known to bring out the worst in people, causes most cases of domestic violence

Alcohol causes death by overdose

Alcohol gives me a headache, makes me sick to my stomach, and makes me feel ill the entire next day...the opposite side effects of the illegal herb.



Mary Jane is illegal because the pharma/alcohol/oil/cotton industry want to keep it that way.

[SOS]

164. Anecdotal observations, drawn from experience

Six friends I partied with in the 1970s and 1980s:

Chuck W. - alcoholic, committed suicide after his 5th alcohol-related arrest in 2007. Age 54
Peter S. -alcoholic, died of alcohol overdose in 1999. Age 47
Tom M. - alcoholic heart and liver disease. Died in 2006 at age 57.

Barrett M. - pothead, successful computer industry millionaire.
Lindsey C. - pothead, tenured professor at a prestigious New England University.
Eric M. - pothead, successful career in the film industry.

Not scientific proof, but from what I've witnessed with my own eyes, cannabis should be decriminalized and alcohol should face some increased taxes, advertising bans and get more funding for treatment.

[Raksha]

191. "Ending prohibition." You're absolutely right!!! n/t

[Mari333]

16. and there goes the possibiity of using hemp as an alternative resource

because the american public cannot disassociate hemp from pot. even tho its different, and a valuable resource .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemp

[Alexander]

17. He has always said this. But he does support decriminalization.

If this is a surprise to you, you haven't been paying attention.

[leftofthedial]

18. We need a progressive president.

Obama is a talented man. I hope he succeeds in saving our collective ass. But he's just another in a chain of "democratic centrists" who do not represent substantive change, but rather competent defense of the status quo.

Maybe 4 years will show the failure of the status quo and Americans will actually vote for change.

If that shows any signs of happening, the real coup will be implemented by the oligarchy, triggering revolution.

[SammyWinstonJack]

19. 'defense of the status quo.' Yes it would seem so.

x(

[Renew Deal]

23. So you want Obama to lose in 2012?

That's telling.

Speaking of "real progressives" running for president. Which one of them supported legalizing marijana in 2008?

[DonEBrook]

27. To lose? Hell, I have no idea if I want him to RUN in 2012.

None of us have the foggiest idea if he'll be a good president.:eyes:
In any case I don't consider him to be particularly progressive.

[Renew Deal]

30. You're more of a McCain type?

Maybe Palin will be particularly progressive enough for you.

[leftofthedial]

34. If this country is to survive, what you have suggested MUST become a false choice.

If all we have to choose between is a right-of-center "democrat" and a far-right repuke, we might as well start arming ourselves now.

[Renew Deal]

35. The first thing you have to realize is that Obama is not "right of center."

It's just not who he is. You need to understand that before you can consider yourself reasonable.

[leftofthedial]

38. his positions on the economy, on the bailout(s), on health care and on Iraq

are to the right of most Americans (according to polls). His staff and cabinet selections so far would scarcely raise eybrows if they'd been appointed by a repuke.

I don't need you to tell me what I have to realize.

[Renew Deal]

71. Wrong, wrong, and wrong

Raising taxes on the wealthy, the bailout itself, and partially mandated halth care is to the left of most Americans. But you're the one who made this ridiculous assertion, so get some poll numbers and PROVE IT.

Name 1 republican that would have nominated Hillary, Daschle, Holder, Richardson, Shu, or Napolitano to anything let alone a cabinet position. Just name one or finally admit you're full of shit.

[Selatius]

220. It's not so simple as "raising taxes on the wealthy." Originally Obama said he'd raise...

taxes on incomes over 250,000 when he got into office, but he changed his plans and said that instead of repealing Bush's tax cuts immediately, he's simply going to let the Bush tax cuts expire in a couple years.

The assertion that he is center-right came from the appointment of individuals involved with the banking situation to his economic team, namely Timothy Geithner for Treasury and Lawrence Summers for National Economic Council.

Geithner, currently head of the NY Fed Reserve, was reportedly involved in the dealing that led to the federal government bailing out Bear Stearns, and he worked closely under both Bernanke and current Treasury secretary Paulson. He got his start working under former Nixon Sec. of State Henry Kissinger at Kissinger Associates and worked his way up to under-secretary of the Treasury for Int'l Affairs under Rubin and Lawrence Summers. Before being appointed to the Fed Reserve of NY, he was policy director at the Int'l Monetary Fund, the same organization often criticized for pushing "privatization" schemes on developing countries, and was a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations.

Lawrence Summers, on the other hand, was Treasury Secretary under Clinton. There, he gained a reputation for advocating using budget surpluses to pay off the national debt instead of on social programs that were being cut or abolished at the time, like the FDR-era program Aid to Families with Dependent Children. After Clinton, he was president at Harvard between 2001 and 2006, where he was forced to leave in controversy after stating that women were under-represented in the sciences because women lacked "intrinsic aptitude" in his view.

It is not so black-and-white as many here try to portray. Obama has done some things, but as far as his economic staff goes, he hasn't exactly picked outsiders who have built up a reputation for criticizing the status quo and demanding regulatory reforms either. The truth of the matter here with Geithner and Summers is that Obama hasn't.

[RaleighNCDUer]

45. Depends on if you are talking about OUR center, or the world's center.

In US politics he is slightly left of center - but across the civilized world he would be seen as somewhat right of center. We are a nation that does not even have a functioning socialist party - our left is far to the right of the rest of the world.

Perhaps you need to broaden your horizons.

[Renew Deal]

78. Perhaps not

I realize where we are at in this country. I'm not the one trying to blur the lines between left and right to proclaim that Nader is the one true god. I find people that claim that Obama isn't left enough and then voted for him hypocrites.

[Romulox]

57. Supports: TARP, War on Drugs, War in Iraq/Afghanistan, FISA, "free trade"

These are all rightwing positions.

[Renew Deal]

74. So why did you vote for Obama?

[Mari333]

88. obama wasnt mccain.

the only choice available . otherwise it was neocons.
doesnt mean one has to agree with him on everything.

[Selatius]

221. In a two-party system, you have no practical choice outside of Obama, not without losing.

See arguments against voting Nader in 2000.

[DonEBrook]

39. Yeah sure I just love McCain.

Are you being deliberately obtuse or are you just fucking stupid?

[Renew Deal]

87. You said he's not particularly progressive.

But you voted for him right?

[reggie the dog]

135. well no shit

he was the candidated farthest to the left who had a chance of winning, even though he is a centrist. I surely did not want a neo con to win, Obama was the lesser of two evils, but what do I know, I vote Communist, Green, and Socialist most of the time.

[Renew Deal]

138. There are so many problems with this.

There are people that say that Obama (or Kerry or Gore or Bush for republicans) is the lesser of two evils. Then they claim that they're truly socialists or fascists (or whatever), but they still vote for the 2 parties. If you truly believe that Obama is evil, don't vote for him. If you are truly offended by the two parties, don't vote for them. If you want to know why our political climate is the way it is, look in the mirror.


(This is not directed at you personally.)

[reggie the dog]

175. I know what you mean

That is why I voted Green when I was confident that Blago would win in Illinois. It is just that we are stuck with our voting system in the USA and I wanted to prevent a neo con from getting in. Voting Green for president would not have helped that.

[Selatius]

222. You know, those DUers who do vote are damned any way you look at it.

Because all those DUers who voted Green got a lot of crap the last 8 years because of what happened with Bush. If they had stayed home, they'd be equally derided for not voting. If they voted for Kerry, and then criticized him to no end, what, they'd not escape the label of hypocrite?

In precious swing states like Ohio, Virginia, Indiana, etc. there was no practical option to vote third party without splintering the vote on the left for Obama, thus handing the state to McCain. If they had voted for Green or Socialist this year and hypothetically cost Obama the entire election, what then?

[leftofthedial]

29. "Want"? No.

As I said, I hope he succeeds. I like him and wish him well.

But if he does fail, perhaps that will show the need for a truly progressive agenda. More likely, such a failure would create an even further rift between the fascist far right and the progressive left.

[Renew Deal]

33. And you're rooting for him to fail.

So you're fantasies of a rift between the right and left come true. It's so clear that you're anti-Obama.

[leftofthedial]

37. you're just shouting whatever you want

and not reading what other posters are writing.

Go take your meds, have a nice cup of tea and come back later when you feel better.

[Renew Deal]

84. I'm reading it.

And it's pretty clear that some people here have no concept of reality. The idea there is no difference between the parties is dangerously misleading. People making that claim are partly responsible for getting us Bush in the first place. At least now more people realize that there is a difference. And the pathetic few on the far left and right will stay right there; out of the main stream and irrelevant. So keep ranting that there's no difference. You've lost all credibility.

[RaleighNCDUer]

123. The reality is that the republicans have made the far right mainstream,

while the far left has no voice whatsoever. Your metrics are completely skewed.

But then, judging by the quality of your writing you are smart enough to know that and your only purpose here is to incite the party's much neglected left. And we see through you. We know that the DLC is not the center of the party, but the corporatist RW of the party. We know where you're coming from. And you are the one with no credibility.

[Renew Deal]

137. You have no idea what you know.

I never said anything about the DLC. I am not trying to incite anyone. The question here was whether there is a difference between the parties. I think it's pretty clear after the last 8 years that there is a difference. Do you agree or do you think Gore and Bush "are the same?" You can't claim that the two parties are the same or that a Republican would have made the same cabinet picks as Obama and consider yourself credible.

[RaleighNCDUer]

170. And I am calling you on your bullshit.

You are the one who put up the strawman about the parties being the same - nobody here made that claim. People here are saying that Obama is a center-right politician with progressive leanings, and on the issue of the thread (remember that?) he is clearly supporting the status quo.

You have tried to divert the discussion from its original theme in order to get a rise out of the leftists here.

Very transparent DLC bullshit.

[Jax]

195. This one wanted to 'purge' Dean supporters from the Democratic Party in '04

'Very transparent DLC bullshit' is spot on...

[Renew Deal]

217. Yes, that wasn't too smart.

It was totally misguided. It was written in frustration with a few people here on DU. I wasn't taking a big picture view of things. The big picture view is that the world is a lot larger than DU, and that the hysterics by a few here don't represent the party (and the country). I also didn't realize until later that the "Dean people" were onto something with their politics but not their candidate. To me, the candidate overshadowed the politics. Ultimately, the Dean movement brought us congress, and Obama, and all the gains we have made over the last few years. If it wasn't for Dean, we probably wouldn't have had Obama. Hillary would have been shoved down our throats. I was aware at the time (primary season 2004) that Dean would have been a fantastic DNC Chairman. He was well suited and I was proud to support him.

That experience kept me from demanding purges in 2008. There were times this cycle that I felt like Hillary's people were akin to republicans (and sometimes they were i.e. Op. Chaos). But I never forgot the lessons of 2004 and took a big picture view of things. Ironically, this time a few people purged themselves ("PUMA's").

Anyway, it was a valuable lesson learned.

[Renew Deal]

214. Like I said, you have no idea.

Someone upthread said: "His staff and cabinet selections so far would scarcely raise eybrows if they'd been appointed by a repuke."

This is another way of saying that there's no difference between Obama and McCain or between the parties. And people here are saying that he's center-right. They left out the "progressive leavings" part. That's what makes it so offensive. The original theme is that Obama is "right of center" which is comeplete bullshit. You're attempt to muddy the waters between the parties is the true bullshit here and I'm calling you out on it.

[reggie the dog]

136. we have this problem in France too

there is a right left division about how free trade and capitalism will be run, the debate centers on how much of a social system will be put in place and how progressive the government will be on issues such as gay marriage, drugs etc. In the end of the day the two main parties in France and the USA all seem to be happy with free trade and delocalizing factories while selling off nationalized goods. In France the whole political spectrum is far enough to the left that the socialists help working people, but they are still pro free trade. The only real difference of opinion from this comes from fringe parties on the extreme left and the extreme right (nationalist) parties.

[leftofthedial]

160. who said there is no difference?

"pathetic few..."

I guess we know where you're coming from.

The only ranting I see on this thread comes from you.

[Zhade]

230. Show where anyone made that claim and you might have a point.

NT!

[shadowknows69]

73. If I'm not mistaken Gravel did.

[Renew Deal]

94. I think you're correct.

Though he was barely there.

[reggie the dog]

134. The Socialist Party in France

is for legalization, as are the Greens,,,, in the USA I think the Greens and Libertarians are for legalization. In France the right wing UMP is for depenalization with the threat of a fine.

[Renew Deal]

141. There are some in the Democratic party that support legalization/decriminalization

But most of that sentiment is held by the minor parties. It's not a mainstream view, but I think it will be in my lifetime.

[RedCappedBandit]

25. Agreed

[Renew Deal]

20. FREE dlfuller!!!

:crazy:

[mikelgb]

21. Obama is a stoner

i can tell

kinda like gaydar

[Harry Monroe]

31. I'm sure he toked a few in his younger days.

Didn't we all??:smoke: ;-)

Unless I'm mistaken, he even admitted to a bit of drug use in his earlier days. BFD.

[Freddie Stubbs]

32. If he is, that would make him one heck of a hypocrite

[Zhade]

231. Herbdar?

NT!

[Harry Monroe]

26. Did he "inhale"?

Oh wait, wrong president.

[endarkenment]

51. Hell he snorted

but if Obama is anything he is a very cautious centrist.

[Romulox]

36. Obama will be the third President in a row that is a hypocrite on the War on Drugs

Admits to having used drugs, but would still lock someone up for making the same "mistake" he did...

[Fumesucker]

40. ISTR that Obama favors forced treatment for "addicts"

Including pot smokers I believe.

Given that nicotine is roughly as addictive as heroin I wonder if he is planning on getting treatment for his own addiction?

[Romulox]

43. Marijuana "addiction" is medically undefined. In other words, it does not exist.

[Fumesucker]

49. Which is why I put "addicts" in quotation marks...

Pot addiction may not be a medical term but it damn sure is a political one.

Or maybe you haven't been paying attention for the last seventy years or so.

[Romulox]

53. I think we're on the same page with this one.

"Pot addiction may not be a medical term but it damn sure is a political one."

That's because pot is a "narcotic". :eyes:

[JuniperLea]

102. The mental addiction is absolutely medically defined...

Much like the mental addiction to cigarettes.

[Fumesucker]

109. Nicotine is physically addictive and the tobacco companies manipulate the nicotine levels..

To increase the addictive potentials.

Nicotine is roughly as addictive as heroin.

[JuniperLea]

112. There is a mental addiction as well...

That's why the patch works so well; you can work on one addiction at a time. The patch keeps your physical addiction satisfied while you work on the mental addiction and habit. It's much easier.

I've been told by two heroin and cigarette addicts that cigarettes are far more addictive and harder to quite than heroin. Both men have quit both drugs numerous times:

[John Q. Citizen]

120. Yes, notice that Obama has presumably kicked pot, but he's still addicted to nicotine. It's

both physically and mentally addictive.

Pot has a very low addictive potential. Tobacco, very high.

[Zhade]

233. There is no addictive potential, period. Habituation, but not addiction.

NT!

[Romulox]

140. The same way the "mental addiction" to Sitcoms is defined...nt

[Zhade]

232. No it's not. That's a false statement.

HABITUATION is shown, yes, but not addiction. They are not the same thing at all.

[riverdeep]

47. I think he learned the lesson of Jocelyn Elders.

Bill Clinton's Surgeon General and the best thing that ever came out of the first Clinton administration. She was relentlessly tarred and feathered for saying maybe we should start TALKING about something other than just say no. Maybe we should simply hold a conversation about the pros and cons of the war on drugs. This was in '93 or '94. She also said that masturbation is normal. Those things were more than enough for the right wing squawk fest to go into full bleat mode. Clinton dropped her just as he would do to many other progressives.

The only consolation for her is that she was proven right and things have only gotten worse.

As much as I would want to see this, he'd be lucky to get decriminalization passed much less legalization right now. The right wing is like alligators at the watering hole, lurking and waiting for any shred they can run with.

[riverdeep]

48. Conversely, the Bush administration's approach is completely different.

They don't 'pick and choose' their battles. Their strategy is to attack on every imaginable front and create such chaos and frenzy that many things fly under the radar. When people are trying to plug up one hole, they just bust open another one. And when people try to plug that one, another one goes, etc.

As a result, they've transformed the government fully and completely into their vision on almost every level in every department from NASA to FEMA to the EPA. Big changes, little changes, they've done them all.

[JuniperLea]

50. He's not in favor of abortion either...

That doesn't mean he's going to work to overturn Roe v Wade.

[Romulox]

55. They don't jail millions of minorities for having abortion, so the comparison isn't strong. nt

[JuniperLea]

61. This is about what Obama supports or does not...

The numbers of whichever way you choose to divide up stoners is of no consequence.

I'm saying he has been swayed on the abortion rights issue, and I believe he can be swayed on this issue as well. The medicinal uses alone should be enough. I'm betting he would have wanted some for his mother if he knew how much it would ease her suffering in her last days.

I say the comparison is hella strong.

[Romulox]

62. It's about whether it is "worth it" politically to fight for Civil Rights.

"The numbers of whichever way you choose to divide up stoners is of no consequence."

LOL. A very telling sentence. Your analogy is weak, because there is no parity in the two situations. Repeating it doesn't help.

[JuniperLea]

64. Yet you fail to see the meat and potatoes of the post...

You completely ignore the medical reasoning.

Civil rights? You actually think people have a civil right to use a drug that is currently illegal? Bull-fucking-shit. No matter how fond I might be of the sweet leaf, your lack of reasoning leaves me stunned.

Why is it you seem to have nothing at all good to say about this new Democratic PEOTUS of ours?

[Romulox]

75. People didn't have a "civil right" to eat at a white lunch counter when it was illegal...

"You completely ignore the medical reasoning."

That's because there is no medical basis for marijuana's illegality. Drop this line of argument, as it will lead to embarrassment. :hi:

"Civil rights? You actually think people have a civil right to use a drug that is currently illegal? Bull-fucking-shit. No matter how fond I might be of the sweet leaf, your lack of reasoning leaves me stunned."

Just like there is currently no "civil right" for gays to marry. And just like there was no "civil right" for Ms. Parks to sit at the front of the bus, or for the Lovings to be married. All of these are (or were) illegal. And we know that illegality determines whether one has a "civil right", based on your argument. Errr, right?

"Why is it you seem to have nothing at all good to say about this new Democratic PEOTUS of ours?"

Because he's wrong on this issue, and, as an admitted drug user, a hypocrite to boot.

[JuniperLea]

80. EOC

You have no sense... EOC

[Romulox]

91. LOL. Argument is too tough for me! I declare myself the winner! nt

[JuniperLea]

103. I refuse to battle wits with the unarmed... eom

[we can do it]

121. No Kidding --

They don't bother to read, they just blow up

[JuniperLea]

125. Psst... I think someone is stoned:)

Wish I was, but alas there are priorities.

[we can do it]

128. Yeah, I Don't Still Live With Mommy

so paying the bills and keeping a roof over my head and taking care of the sick is more important than catching a buzz

[Fumesucker]

131. I don't live with Mommy either...

Given that she died in 1971 that would be kind of difficult.

[reggie the dog]

149. stop talking shit

I keep a roof over my head, pay my bills, take care of my wife and daughter when they are sick, work out 3 to 5 days a week, do the shopping, the cleaning, the ironing, and still catch a buzz about 5 days a week or so. I moved out on my own a week or so after I got my MA in the teaching of history. I should not be considered a delinquant or a criminal because I smoke a plant in its natural form or resin made from its flowers. I should not be a criminal for helping my friends find some or for growing some either. The people who sell me my grass or give it to me for free as they often do here in France should not be criminals either. We harm no one except perhaps ourselves.

[we can do it]

182. You're Talking Shit - I Said I'm For Legalization

try reading just for once- dope is not more important than people starving or having a home, if you think it is you have a problem.

[reggie the dog]

184. I did read, you implied that still living at home with mommy

was a sign of smoking pot. I think it is more of a sign of young people not finding good paying jobs. I have no problem. I have a home, I have food, and luckily I live in a country where I only risk a fine for cannabis. Dope is more important for me than the issues you mention. I see no reason why Obama cannot construct a welfare state and end the war on drugs at the same time while legalizing gay marriage.

[we can do it]

196. First I Was Not Refering To You - I Was Refering To Mr. Juvenial Response

Now try, and I know it must be hard, but thinking dope is more important to this country than food, jobs and homes for everyone is juvenial. I said I am for legalization, for christsake, did you read that in one of the 7 or 8 posts I've written so far? I'm for medical and recreational use - if alcohol is ok so is pot. Medical use should definately be ok. But to say it is the most pressing issue is just selfish. Who brought up gay marriage any way? I don't think that's more important than jobs, healthcare, and ending the war, either.

[reggie the dog]

186. double post

x

[JuniperLea]

161. And trying to help others to keep the bills, the roof, etc.

Seems a hell of a lot more important right now to our PEOTUS.

Not to mention two wars... not to mention the idea of baby steps never occurs to some. It's a lot more likely that decriminalization can be pushed and succeed than complete legalization.

[Romulox]

145. Which one is stoned? The one who can articulate his arguments? Or you?

:silly:

[JuniperLea]

162. The only people in this thread who are articulate...

And can follow a conversation, happen to agree with my POV.

[Zhade]

238. Uh, no, we don't. Not by a long shot. You're wrong about THAT, too.

NT!

[Romulox]

143. That's funny, because you're more than happy to spew a cliche and congratulate yourself

Even when you've had difficulty articulating your position. :hi:

[JuniperLea]

167. Just because you can't read or comprehend...

Is no sign I'm not articulate.

You can't even follow a conversation... :eyes:

[Zhade]

237. In this case, I declare you the clear winner as well.

NT!

[reggie the dog]

142. there is a civil right for gays to marry

it is a right reserved by the people and the several states, its practice does not infringe on others rights and is thus legal. Certain states respect this right, others do not. People fighting for gay marriage are as much fighters for civil rights as Rosa Parks or Martin Luther King were.

[reggie the dog]

144. sorry

I responded to the wrong poster.

[reggie the dog]

139. of course cannabis use is a civil rights question

the constitution was changed to ban alcohol because using drugs falls into the category of "rights not specified which are guarded by the citizens and their respective states". The whole federal war on drugs in unconstitutional, even Republican Ron Paul admits this. The right of free individuals to cultivate, possess, and use a plant in its natural form in the privacy of ones own home is an inalienable right, the state of Alaska recognizes this right so I am not so far off base. I got our of a 45 gram pot bust in Virginia becase the police had an illegal road block and searched me without a warrant. The judge said 5 minutes into my trial that MY CIVIL RIGHTS HAD BEEN VIOLATED BY AN ILLEGAL SEARCH AND SEIZURE, then he told the cops that if they had to break the law to find evidence of a crime that involved no victim then they just may not be a crime. I was in rural Virginia and the judge was in his 50's this was in 1999. Cannabis prohibition has no constitutional validity and is held up by a politically corrupt supreme court which is afraid to look "soft on drugs".

[Zhade]

236. People have a civil right to control their bodies, and thus whatever they put into their bodies.

That doesn't change just because the substance is illegal -- or would you have supported Prohibition?

YOU'RE the one lacking reasoning on this point.

[ecstatic]

52. He's choosing his battles wisely. Maybe in his 7th or 8th year he

can address that. Until then, to the back of the bus (or under the bus) to all ye weedheads!

[Romulox]

54. "Keeping his powder dry", huh? That's been a successful strategy so far. nt

[we can do it]

56. I'm All For Legalizing Pot, But Really, Aren't a Few More Things Important Now

Come on people, the most asked question on change.gov is when will pot be legal? We are teetering on the edge of depression, we are torturing people, unions being busted, people losing their homes, no one can afford basic medical attention and the most asked question - "man where's my legal dope" WTF is wrong here?




:crazy:

[Romulox]

59. Like gay marriage, you mean? Abortion? Which civil rights are important and which are not?

:shrug:

[Fumesucker]

63. Only the ones which effect the poster personally...

If they are straight male then abortion and gay marriage do not register on their radar screen.

Lots of people like that.

FWIW, I'm a straight male and I strongly support both abortion rights and gay marriage.

[we can do it]

68. Look - If Dope Is You're Biggest Priority Right Now

You are pretty selfish. Let's not worry too much about people losing there homes, jobs and health, lets only think about getting high - Like I said previously I am for legalization, its just not the most pressing thing.

[JuniperLea]

72. Well said

I think we need to move more quickly for the medicinal use that is being challenged, but full legalization just doesn't rank with your list. Not in the most stretched of imaginings can I make that work in my own mind.

[Romulox]

79. Look - If Gay Marriage Is You're (sic) Priority Right Now

"You are pretty selfish. Let's not worry too much about people losing there homes, jobs and health, lets only think about getting married - Like I said previously I am for gay marriage, its just not the most pressing thing."

[Name removed]

106. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dukkha]

111. strawman

what a stupid reply

[JuniperLea]

119. must be stoned... eom

[Romulox]

148. Must be stupid. nt

[JuniperLea]

158. I guess you're right... you are... eom

[we can do it]

127. No Shit This Whole Line of Non-Logic Is Ridiculous

Pretty much like rethug-circular non logic

[Romulox]

147. It's an attempt to undermine the (il)logic of the post I responded to...

I do not endorse this line of thinking--in fact I was attempting to expose its stupidity by parroting the response above mine while merely replacing the subject... :hi:

[Dukkha]

178. I get it but I'm not buying it

a serious human rights issue like gay marriage is far more important than legalizing a recreational narcotic drug. The former has a real chance of becoming reality if we keep the pressure on Obama to change his position, the latter has no chance in the current mainstream America's anti-drug hysteria climate. With Obama's admitted drug past, one can only imagine the RW spin on him even mentioning the possibility of addressing the issue.

[Zhade]

242. I for one don't think any civil right is more or less important.

They ALL are -- because where one is denied, others are in danger.

[Dukkha]

252. drug use is NOT a civil right

c'mon what are you people smoking!

[Zhade]

256. Control over your own body IS a civil right.

NT!

[Fumesucker]

83. I have a loved one doing long hard time for a non-violent "drug crime"

But I know you don't give a damn about his suffering.

[JuniperLea]

101. Right... that's so much more important than people losing their homes...

Or their jobs, or their retirement, or their health.

At least your loved one has a roof over his/her head, three meals a day, and a pot to piss in. That's a lot more than some people have right now. But fuck them all! Right?

[Fumesucker]

Why does it have to be only one thing at a time?

Is Obama incapable of multitasking?

[JuniperLea]

116. He has a lot on his plate...

We may already be asking too much of him. Two wars, homes being foreclosed, jobs being lost, a recession, banks and automakers going under, the homeless population increasing because of job losses, climate issues, energy issues...

Look, I've been a fan of the sweet leaf longer than many people here have been alive, and I'd love to see it legalized. I have watched several friends die of AIDS related illnesses and cancer who had to procure weed illegally just so they could have a little comfort in their dying days. I know there are a lot of other very good medical reasons too... glaucoma, high blood pressure, etc... but we have a lot of priorities right now. I'll be first in line to protest and to email and to make calls to try and get this wrong righted... when there's not so much other, more important stuff to do.

[Fumesucker]

129. So, once every other single problem is completely solved..

Then, in your mind, we can address this issue?

[JuniperLea]

157. Not at all...

Every single other more important issue will ever be completely handled; there is always something new. I'm just saying we are living in unprecedented times, and the plate of the POTUS has now grown to the size of several platters. When it's down to one platter or so...

[reggie the dog]

152. what about all the murders related to the drug trade

how many people die??? how many teens waste their life trying to be gangsters selling drugs? they would not do this were drugs legalized.


Also how can you talk about jail like this "At least your loved one has a roof over his/her head, three meals a day, and a pot to piss in."???? No freedom, abuse from other inmates, abuse from guards, lose of job and home, no prospects for a future job. All because they sold another adult some flowers.

[Zhade]

243. So his loved one's injustice doesn't rate?

How fucking heartless of you.

[Runcible Spoon]

99. this goes beyond mere dope..

the issue affects the entire philosophy and structure of the industrial prison complex, a very LARGE and influential institution with a lot of lobbyists and political influence.

[reggie the dog]

150. SELFISH????????

Plenty of people lose their homes for growing 5 or 10 plants in it for personal use, I have done this, I should not risk losing my home, people also lose their jobs because of random drug testing. We also risk losing our money in the form of a fine, losing our jobs a civil servants such as teachers, or losing our freedom by being sent to jail for growing our own. People also lose their health insurance if they had any when they lose their jobs for failing a pee test. It is as pressing for smokers as the gay marriage question is for gay people and abortion is for women.

[nemo137]

194. Smoking pot is a choice, yes?

It's not an immutable characteristic? Comparing legalization to gay marriage is just asinine.

[Fumesucker]

198. Drinking alcohol is also a choice...

Unquestionably alcohol is more dangerous than pot.

And yet alcohol is completely legal for adults.

Some people prefer pot to alcohol due to their innate biochemistry, rather like some people are gay thanks to their innate characteristics (and yes I believe sexual orientation is an innate characteristic and not something you choose).

It's a matter of equal protection, one group gets their drug of choice legally but the other group does not even though the drug they prefer is far more benign.

Gays are free to marry, as long as they marry someone of the opposite sex and yet they complain that that they are denied equal protection under the law because the cannot marry someone of the same sex.

Stoners are free to get fucked up as long as they do so with alcohol even though they prefer a different recreational substance.

The arguments are not identical, but closer than you wish to admit.

[reggie the dog]

204. I never drink alcohol

because my use gave me too many negative side effects. Cannabis does not give me negative side effects. I know most other people have no problem with alcohol but I am just wired that way.

[reggie the dog]

202. ???? live and let live is asinine?????

[nemo137]

207. No, the comparison between gay marriage and legalization is.

One is discrimination based on an innate characteristic, the other is based on a choice. Smoking pot at all or in preference to alcohol is a choice. One is outright bigotry, the other is a disagreement about the consequences of drug use. Marijuana should be decriminalized, but that particular argument is asinine.

[reggie the dog]

215. my logic is more like this

gay people harm no one due to their consensual sexual activities, their love lives, their spiritual love and their adopting kids would harm no one either therefore their sexual relations, spiritual relations (marriages) and their adopting of children should be legal.

Cannabis users har no one due to their consensual activities of possessing, using, growing, giving and selling cannabis to other adults therefore it should be legal.

I know gay people do not choose to be gay but I see tyranny as tyranny whether it be tyranny based upon someones sexual orientation or their drug use habits. Perhaps my desire to smoke grass is an innate desire like my urge to have sex, at that point the issue you posed becomes more blurry. In my mind telling a cannabis user to switch to alchol is just as stupid as telling a gay person to enjoy heterosexual sex.

[Zhade]

247. The bigger issue is, who controls your body -- you or the government?

I'd say this makes recreational drug use very similar to a woman's right to an abortion, actually.

[nemo137]

208. No, the comparison between gay marriage and legalization is

One is discrimination based on an innate characteristic, the other is based on a choice. Smoking pot at all or in preference to alcohol is a choice. One is outright bigotry, the other is a disagreement about the consequences of drug use. Marijuana should be decriminalized, but that particular argument is asinine.

[Zhade]

245. Would you have supported Prohibition?

And what of those of us who use it to, you know, NOT GO BLIND -- which my doctors have discovered in my case? Fuck us, let us go blind?

Not to mention, having an abortion is a choice -- do you think women don't have the right to make it?

[we can do it]

201. Reggie, You Sound Like Me When I Was Around 20

(I got out of school in the last big recession in the 80's) Though I don't know how old you are, I want good jobs to be available for you, I want you to get the healthcare you need, I don't want you to get killed in an illegal war, I do not want you to be hassled or jailed for smoking dope. I think the economy could benefit for the legalization and maybe it would be a little bit safer, too. Everyone needs a place to live, and food to eat, and saying that those things are not as important as recreational drugs IS selfish, if you think about it.

[reggie the dog]

206. I am soon to be 30

and to me having a place to live, food to eat and clothes to wear are a basic necessity and the fact that the USA is not helping its people enough in this respect is terrible so I understand your urge to help these people first, at the same time gay people wanting to marry and adopt as well as cannabis smokers are being discriminated against and that needs to end fast too. I support the rapid installation of a welfare state as well as repealing the Patriot acts, ending the war on drugs, and legalizing gay marriage with adoption rights. To me it is all part of the same fight for social justice and I cannot say one issue should come before the other. Obama should take a stand on each issue, explain the benefits of reform to Americans and attempt to radically shift the political paradigm to the left.

[we can do it]

209. So We Agree On Most Eveything

Logistically some things will have to happen first, but I think all are important. That's why I stated the basic necessities first.

[reggie the dog]

213. now I understand you better

basic necessities are necessairy for humans to survive and I am talking about the luxury of getting high without fear of a bust. Ok, I can see in that context that helping others eat or have a house should be the priority. Sometimes I forget that back in my birth country, the USA, basic human needs such as food and shelter are not assured by the welfare state. I guess I am starting to take the state sponsored saftey net here in France for granted.

[we can do it]

216. Yeah Its Sucks That Our Country Doesn't Care for Its Sick or Poor

and I was shocked to find out how bad some people really do have it, having grown up in a lower middle class working family. A country as rich as ours has no excuse in not meeting people's basic needs. And the home of the free needs a lot more freedom!

[reggie the dog]

151. strange but the Socialists in France support

cannabis legalization
MDMA depenalization
harm reduction programs for all drugs
gay marriage
nationalized health insurance and public hospitals
preserving the national retirement program,
starting a green economy


why are the Democrats so afraid to take a stand?,?????

[Fumesucker]

172. why are the Democrats so afraid to take a stand?,?????

Because the Republicans might say something mean about them.

[reggie the dog]

176. awwwwww

[girl gone mad]

177. People are losing their homes, jobs..

and health because of our unethical War on Marijuana.

I guess those people don't matter?

Our government can only do one thing at a time, and do that one thing badly?

[Ignis]

199. "Yeah, screw Grandma! She can serve hard time for tokin'!"

"Now watch this drive..." :banghead:

Have you ever, ever been around cancer patients or other chronic pain sufferers?

I suspect not. Try volunteering at a hospice sometime.

[we can do it]

65. Civil Rights - Equal Treatment for All Americans Yes-

Equating smoking dope with these issues is petty bs - I think it should be legal as I said before, a priority in our current climate, not even close....when is the last time some one was killed for being a pothead? Gays and abortion practitioners are often killed by people who just don't like them. How about we shelve global warming for a while, until its too late so we can tackle this pressing issue.....

[Fumesucker]

66. Non violent drug offenders are killed all the time in prison by violent prisoners..

So the answer to your question: when is the last time some one was killed for being a pothead, is: quite recently.

[we can do it]

76. What a Stretch, When Was a Doper Killed Walking Down the Street?

Your answer is bullshit - I doubt if someone was killed in prison "because they smoked dope"......they may have been unfairly sentenced but I doubt another convict killed them for this reason. Get a grip

[Fumesucker]

85. Dead is dead..

It's quite clear that you do not care about the injustice, as long as you get what you want.

[we can do it]

98. Dumb is Dumb

It is you who is only concerned about "what I want" try reading and get a fucking clue - you are a selfish immature idiot if you think this is the most pressing issue our country faces - grow the fuck up

[Fumesucker]

100. Where did I say it was the most pressing issue?

I think it is one of many pressing issues..

Why can we not move forward on multiple issues at the same time?

[we can do it]

110. You Went Off On Me for Saying Its Not the Most Pressing Issue

>Come on people, the most asked question on change.gov is when will pot be legal? We are teetering on the edge of depression, we are torturing people, unions being busted, people losing their homes, no one can afford basic medical attention and the most asked question - "man where's my legal dope" WTF is wrong here?

I said I am for legalization, but is it more important than having a home, food or a job? I think not

[Fumesucker]

114. Where did I "go off on you"..

Quotes please..

Is Obama capable of multitasking or not?

[we can do it]

117. And BTW What I Want Is Peace, Healthcare, Jobs and Education for All

Take your little attitude somewhere else

[Fumesucker]

132. A direct quote from you... "Try Fucking Reading Asshole"

That kind of indicates a bit of an attitude..

Not to mention you directly violated DU rules.

Edited to add: You ought to change your handle to: We *can't* do it.

That would be more in line with your attitude.

[reggie the dog]

156. and when cops with a warrant for cannabis

kick in someones door and shoot them, even if they have the wrong house, what about these kinds of deaths???

Also people lose their jobs, kids, and freedom over cannabis, not as shitty as losing ones life but still pretty shitty.

[JuniperLea]

67. Yep...

And since when is it a civil right to be able to use a drug that is currently illegal?

I'm all for legalization, but idiotic arguments like this do not help the cause one iota.

[we can do it]

82. You Got It Right -

God forbid we put the basic life and health interests of all Americans in front of a party for a few....

[reggie the dog]

159. since the constitution was not changed to ban the drug

Why should someone in Alaska, a state which says people have the right to grow, possess, and use cannabis, be subject to federal law dealing with something which should be a right kept by the people and their respective states? The constitution was changed to ban alcohol because getting high is a right kept either by the people or by the several states.

[Zhade]

248. So you would have supported Prohibition, despite the fact that it violated our rights?

You're in favor of the government deciding what you can do with your own body?

Leave me out of your Handmaiden's Tale utopia, please!

[Romulox]

86. Err, the right not to be imprisoned ranks pretty high up there, Mr. Darrow...

"Equating smoking dope with these issues is petty bs".

Nonsense. Abortion is often styled as "the right to do what one wishes with one's own body." Obviously, this reasoning is exploded by the authoritarian police state that has grown up around examining one's effluvia for evidence of so-called "narcotics".

"when is the last time some one was killed for being a pothead? Gays and abortion practitioners are often killed by people who just don't like them."

When was the last time someone was jailed for performing an abortion or being gay? :hi:

[we can do it]

96. OK Once Again- Try Thinking - I said I Think It Should Be Legal

However, it is not as important as people having a job, access to health care, or getting our troops out of Iraq. If you do you need to get your priorities straight.

[Romulox]

97. Once again, there is no rational basis for you to rank which rights are "important" and which aren't

Other than whether or not you care about them or not.

Can you imagine saying to Dr. King, "But there's a war on. Get your priorities straight!"? :eyes:

[reggie the dog]

155. I had a cop hold a gun to my head and threaten me

because I smoke pot.

People are killed in raids for pot, often when the cops have the wrong house. A woman in her 90's was killed like that a few years ago. It happens quite often. Also teenagers shoot other teenagers so they can sell weed on the street corner nearest to the expressway. How often are gay people or abortion practitioners jailed for their activities?????? Also industrial hemp is linked to solving global warming. Hemp is legal in the E U .

[Fumesucker]

60. There will *always* be "a Few More Things Important Now"..

I was under the impression that Obama was going to be able to multitask.

Apparently I was mistaken.

I guess hundreds of thousands of people in prison is nothing to get excited about, unless of course one of those prisoners happens to be a loved one of yours.

[Fireweed247]

113. I'll tell you WTF is wrong here

There are people suffering the effects of legal drugs when they could be healed by this illegal plant.
It's absurd!

There are people who are suffering from Chemo and cannot eat...

There are people who might have eliminated their tumor through prevention by using this miracle plant...

There are people killing themselves after using prozac, when they could have uplifted themselves naturally...

There are people suffering through MS that don't even realize there is illegal help for them...

There are people suffering from CRS and new studies show it boosts the aging brain...

[we can do it]

126. I'm All For Legalizing Pot, But Really, Aren't a Few More Things Important Now

Reading for comprehension - try it

[reggie the dog]

165. it can always be said

that there are more important things to do. It just depends which group of society you want to tell to go to hell.

[Zhade]

250. Maybe not for the suffering people enumerated in the post above.

Maybe their pain and dying clouds their judgment.

:sarcasm:

[RaleighNCDUer]

180. Maybe you are not seeing the ramifications of legalization.

The end to the 'war on drugs' which is responsible for unwarranted (well, not literally un-warranted, as there often are warrants) unjustified arrests of MILLIONS of citizens, many of whom lose their jobs, their homes, their voting rights, etc., while feeding the prison/industrial complex.

Pot is the wedge that had been used for two generations to pry apart the constitution.

It matters.

[Fumesucker]

185. A good bit more than two generations..

The Marijuana Tax Act was passed in 1937.

[RaleighNCDUer]

193. True, but it was Nixon who kicked it into high gear, so to speak. nt

[krabigirl]

229. Legalizing it would solve many problems on your list.

at the very least, it would make enduring all the crap that's been foisted on us the past 8 years a bit easier :)

[Zhade]

241. Whatever happened to multi-tasking?

Where do people get the idea that we, and he, can only work on one issue at a time?

Such limited thinking.

[Froward69]

58. Well at least Barney Frank

is going to put fourth the legislation...

I would bet Obama would sign it.

I do agree Obama is making wise choices and picking battles cleverly.

as he has said before he does believe in legalization. just not admitting it si the retards do not have more ammo to complain about.

[girl gone mad]

192. What? A politician who can walk and chew gum at the same time?

He's in charge of the banking committee (probably the current point man on this crisis), is for gay marriage AND he's introducing legislation to decriminalize? Imagine that, a politician who can multitask.

[MindPilot]

69. C'mon people don't you know a dog whistle when you see it?

"...not in favor of the legalization of marijuana." I think what was NOT said is important here.

That leaves open decriminalization in the form of low(est) priority enforcement, de-funding the DEA and redirecting their efforts. He did not rule out industrial hemp since the question seemed to focus on the drug aspect.

I'm giving Obama the benefit of the doubt on this one.

[shadowknows69]

81. Are you one of those people who thought when Gore said "He had no plans to run"

It meant he was actually planning on running? Can I borrow your glasses?

[MindPilot]

188. Yes, I did actualy. And no you can't borrow my glasses...

they only work for me.:smoke:

[Freddie Stubbs]

90. He also didn't mention not giving everyone a pony

So, we can keep our hopes up for that.

[MindPilot]

190. I figure with all this shit around...

there has to be a pony here someplace.:silly:

[lonestarnot]

92. He's not into wasting money. However, there is an entire economy based on drug enforcement. Wonder

how many of them would be willing to shift to the new economy of decriminalization, de-enforcement(I made that word up), defunding and redirecting (into what)?

[reggie the dog]

171. anti terrorism cops????

dogs could sniff for bombs instead of flowers.

[RaleighNCDUer]

189. Well, all those guys, if they weren't out chasing down pot growers,

could be working for DHS inspecting the MILLIONS of containers that come into our ports, looking for hard narcotics, illegal aliens, nukes, whatever.

But of course chasing down potheads is much more important.

The drug enforcement economy is a FALSE economy which produces absolutely nothing. Not even security from crime. Its resources NEED to be diverted to something productive.

[Romulox]

93. Obama claimed during the campaign that he didn't know what "decriminalization" meant.

[shadowknows69]

70. How about someone asking this for a change?

How can you justify alcohol and tobacco being legal and regulated and a substance that there is ample proof is less deadly and may even have medicinal qualities is still criminal?

There is no logical reason that doesn't involve powerful lobbying interests.

[Zhade]

251. Heck, there's no "may" to it -- medical studies prove its benefits.

Like shrinking tumors, for one.

[Jennicut]

89. I'm all for the legalization of pot

but sitting around smoking it all day in not really that healthy.

[Zhade]

253. My doctors -- yes, that's plural -- would disagree with you.

It's literally saved my eyesight. We have documented medical evidence that my eyes *improved* over the last year, to the point that they had to downgrade my prescription!

[dugaresa]

104. when marijuana is legalized I am buying up all the Kraft stock I can

cuz the sales of mac-n-cheese and any other "box" type easy to make meal will skyrocket!

[dysfunctional press]

124. pillsbury...

they could sell brownie mix with the pot already in it...

and market it with the doughboy's rastafarian cousin.

[reggie the dog]

173. use would not go up

everyone who wants to get high is already doing so.

[Mnemosyne]

228. Not everyone, reggie. My heart breaks for

the many good people I've known that have ended up as serious alcoholics, simply because they need to work to 'survive'.

Their lives were so much better when they could smoke and work, before the ridiculous drug testing frenzy crap started.

Someday maybe...

[reggie the dog]

266. oh yeah

I forgot about the drug testing that happens in the USA. We do not have that at all here in France.

[Mnemosyne]

271. You are most fortunate in France.

Here they even tested a friend's son to wash cars at a car lot!

Ridiculous and fascist, imo.

[negativenihil]

105. i am pro legalization...

however! we've got far larger and more pressing issues that *need* to be dealt with before we should even think about legalizing weed.
2 war fronts, the economy, rebuilding our infrastructure...

At this point - another 4(8?) years without legalization is going to be a drop in the bucket.

[we can do it]

187. Watch It - I Said the Same Thing And Got Flamed

[killbotfactory]

107. If he stops the medical marijuana raids by the DEA I will be happy.

For whatever stupid reason, marijuana legalization is politically unpopular at the moment.

[Zhade]

254. He said he would. It's on the record.

As a patient (see just upthread), I am very concerned about these raids.

[alfredo]

115. Don't legalize, first decriminalize small amounts, including 1 or 2

plants. Or you can make it no worse than a parking ticket. It will be so low a priority for the police they won't bother to enforce it.

[JuniperLea]

122. Well said

Nothing wrong with baby steps. And it's more likely to take, and it will make it a low police priority like you said. We just need to end the war on drugs first. When people realize there's no real issue, it will make it easier to legalize.

[alfredo]

163. It could still be illegal to sell, but not to possess or grow a small amount

for personal use. This would break the backs of organized crime involvement in pot distribution. within a year most people would have their own potted plant on their deck. That one plant could provide them for a long time.

[JuniperLea]

166. Yep...

I believe this is how it started in Holland... then the authorized/licensed shops were introduced. The tax gains would be substantial! It's not that hard to grow, and the price is clearly artificially inflated due to the corruption. Organized crime was brought to a standstill when prohibition was overruled. And the tax proceeds were astounding! There's no reason to believe it would be any different with pot.

[Fumesucker]

169. All through the winter?

Pot is an annual plant, it dies in the winter and has to be regrown from seeds each year.

Depending on how far north you are, a plant would be good for maybe six to eight months a year of actual production.

Why can't it be treated like alcohol or tobacco?

[alfredo]

224. Bring the plant indoors like I do my Rosemary and Jade Trees. I believe

it should be treated like alcohol and tobacco, but right now that is not possible politically.

[Zhade]

257. You can't just bring it indoors and water it expecting it to grow.

It doesn't work that way -- the plant takes very specific light. Sunlight, or the expensive indoor equivalent.

[alfredo]

263. I'm sure an inventive person would find a way to do it on the cheap.

A shot of Rye or a beer is fine with me nowadays.

[reggie the dog]

210. not really

one plant in a pot in most areas of the USA will probably get you between 50 and 100 grams maximum. 100 grams is about a three or four month supply for someone smoking a gram a day or so habit. Personally I would about 700 or 800 grams to keep up with my two gram a day habit. I would need about 15 potted plants on the balcony but do not have that kind of room at my apartment. Were it legal, or tolerated like in the Netherlands I could just buy what I could not grow.

[alfredo]

225. Replant after cutting down the plants, and grow indoors in cold weather.

I haven't smoked in a long time so I don't know how long a plant would last for me. I would probably grow mine for eating. As I remember that was the most pleasant way to use it.

[reggie the dog]

265. eating it is great

but you need more plant material than with smoking. Indoor grows are not always possible either because of space. I live in a two bedroom apartment with my wife and daughter and really have no room for an indoor grow.

[alfredo]

273. I don't have the room or desire. If it was legal I might try it to see

if I can do it. I don't want to run the risk associated with such an enterprise.

[Zhade]

255. Wouldn't help the legitimate NONCRIMINAL clinics who get their stock from legal patients.

And one plant doesn't yield what you might expect. It takes months to harvest.

[Dukkha]

130. Name one serious candidate in the past 25 years who supported legalization

The qualifying term being 'serious' not a High Times write-in nobody.

It's time to put down the bong, eject the Judd Apatow DVD, and clear your head about what really needs to be done and realistically can be accomplished the next 4 years. Starting with medici anal needs and not some recreational BS. Decriminalization and Legalization are not mutually inclusive terms.

[Fumesucker]

200. Why did you pick 25 years?

I think I know..

Jimmy Carter.

[reggie the dog]

211. wrong, try again ;)

he hasn't been in office for 28 years.

Sorry, I thought of him to but that is too far back.


Barney Frank
Ron Paul

[Dukkha]

234. SERIOUS candidates

Barney Frank never ran for president and Ron Paul is a loony crack pot librertarian who had zero chance of succeeding.

[reggie the dog]

264. please explain why Ron Paul is loony?

Is he loony for the same reason Kucinich is loony? Wanting to end the war in Iraq, wanting to end the bs war on terror and the war on drugs? for wanting to repeal the patriot acts? Because he wants to end corporate welfare? I may not agree with Paul's stance on the gold standard or abortion being a states right issue but it seems that Paul has a lot of respect for the constitution. The media portrayed him as loony to diminish his ideas which are really not out of context for the USA.

[Fumesucker]

269. You misunderstood my argument..

The poster picked 25 years because that was just less than the time Jimmy Carter was president, deliberately excluding Carter, who actually was POTUS.

[reggie the dog]

276. ah

[Ganja Ninja]

146. I'm sick and tired of hearing "no" on this question.

As bad as this economy is we can't afford to let a potential multi-billion dollar industry remain off the table.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

153. Oh noes! What ever will we do?!?!?!?

[THUNDER HANDS]

154. do you know how stupid you have to be to get caught with Marijuana?

basically, buy it, drive it home as quickly and discretely as possible, and smoke it at your pleasure.

Don't take it to the airport, or smoke it outside in the open, or drive and smoke.

You don't do that, there would be no reason to get arrested for it.

Really, who has trouble finding pot if they really want it.

I mean, other than me. :)

[Fumesucker]

168. Not stupid, just unlucky..

There are any number of scenarios where you can get busted for pot without necessarily being stupid.

Cops around here routinely ask if they can search your car during traffic stops, if you refuse they take that as an indication of guilt.

And if they really want to bust you they'll just plant something in your car.

http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/51151/

Documents Reveal: Cops Planted Pot on 92-Year Old Woman They Killed in Botched Drug Raid


That happened less than thirty miles from my home and it's hardly an isolated instance.

[reggie the dog]

212. vacation

and all these shitty roadblocks starting on the expressways even now. I have to bring my stash on vacation if I want to smoke while I am on holiday. Here in France I risk at most a fine so I am not too worried. Back in the states you risk a trip to the police station, a night in jail, and the loss of a job for the weed in your suitcase that you wanted to smoke out in the woods or up in the mountains.

[AtomicKitten]

179. I suspect Obama will keep the feds out of states that passed ballot initiatives on medical marijuana

[Zhade]

258. AK! Glad to see you back among us!

And I sure hope you're right.

[AtomicKitten]

259. Getting there.

The pneumonia kicked my butt, but I swear it seems everybody is sick. Funky flu season. Glad to be among the living again!

[Zhade]

261. I was sick for a couple of weeks, but nothing bad.

Seriously - glad you're doing better. : )

[Iggo]

181. Relax, stoners.

That was a classic non-answer to a loaded yes-or-no question.

Mellow...

[walldude]

183. Yup. No politician would get elected if he/she claimed they

were going to legalize. Fuck, the country is falling apart and we couldn't get 60% of the vote. If Obama answered every question the way DU wanted him to McCain would be President-Elect.

[jimmybama]

197. SPOT ON WALLDUDE!!!!

I agree with your post. Obama needed alot of the
undecided/independent and repuklican vote also to win. If he
would have listened too and did everything people here want
him to do he'd have been just as big a loser. He can create 
new green jobs by decriminalizing pot. Tax revenue would
eliminate the national debt. And the Houses would be able to
regulate the shit out of it. I for one would love to be able
to buy it from a cigarette machine or at a liquor store.
Federal tanks and riot gas can't stop me from smokin grass,
listen to me Obama while I tell you true, Marijuana is good
for you Than's right marijuana is good for you. BREATHE
DEEPLY!!!!

[DainBramaged]

205. OK mannnnnnnnnnnnn

[DainBramaged]

203. "Decriminilization" is the right question, and now is the time.

[martymar64]

218. I think the pressure for change will have to come from below

If people continue to lobby for change via their state and federal legislators and enact more pro-marijuana and pro-hemp laws, then the executive branch will see the handwriting on the wall and allow change to happen. If a groundswell of support for decrim/legalization comes from below, I don't think he'll stand in it's way if it can make it through congress.

[Renew Deal]

219. It wouldn't surprise me if it changed like Cuba policy

It's 50 years later and our cuba policy doesn't work. People now realize it's time for major change. Same thing may happen here in 30 years.

[martymar64]

275. Hopefully it work take that long

I want to toke legally waaaaay before 2038.

[exman]

223. Political necessity

Right now, polarizing over marijuana issues is not a good idea. Nothing can stop pot from being readily available anyway. I believe that we must deal with much more pressing issues.I'm sure that resources currently devoted to suppression of weed will be diverted to more important matters. I've spent about 3 years incarcerated over substance abuse issues so I know what's up with that. I still think we have bigger fish to fry right now. Let's prosecute the war criminals first, and worry about the small stuff later.

[yowzayowzayowza]

227. I'd expect motion on the WoD in a second term. n/t

[Pastiche423]

235. Why am I NOT surprised?

[MellowDem]

240. He no doubt agrees with you

and fully understands the argument for legalizing it. Hell, most of the congress critters probably personally support it, if and probably have some experience with it (or currently use it, as I suspect, sometimes in session) themselves. It's just that they won't because it has become so tied up to the "War on Drugs" and is a sacred cow in politics. As many here said, he would be spending a lot of political capital on this at a time when we need to focus on other things first. We need to lower the age on drinking and legalize prostitution as well. But just remember the irrationality of prohibition and how stubborn the teetotalers can be.

[mdmc]

244. LET MY PEOPLE GO!

:lol:

[polichick]

246. That's really disappointing imo.

[flvegan]

260. This thread did not disappoint.

Well played, everyone!

[qwlauren35]

262. Did He Ever Indicate That He Would Legalize Marijuana?

Is he breaking a promise or simply disappointing the pro-legalization crowd?

[4lbs]

267. It's going to be tough for a POTUS to legalize it when it faces such opposition even at the state

level. Forget the Bible Belt, even some "progressive" liberal states like California and Massachusetts, have trouble making it fully legal.

We just had California Prop 5 here fail last month resoundingly by a 20 percent margin. Prop 5, dubbed NORA (Nonviolent Offender Rehabilitation Act), would have made marijuana possession infractions simple misdemeanors instead of felonies, and allowed for more drug rehab and treatment instead of jail time. The voters in CA, who went overwhelmingly for Obama, also significantly decided against it by a 60-40 margin.

So, when 60% of California voters won't even allow marijuana use/possession to be lessened to a simple misdemeanor with no jail time but drug rehab and treatment instead, how can we expect a POTUS to actively use "political capital" to make it fully legal across all 50 states?

Yes, Massachusetts passed Measure 2 which would decriminalize marijuana possession for less than one ounce of pot. Instead of up to six months jail time and $500 fine, possessors of small amounts will just be fined up to $100. However, guess who one of the biggest opponents was .... MADD. Yes, that's right, Mothers Against Drunk Driving is AGAINST legalizing marijuana. MADD seems to believe that driving while high on marijuana is just as bad as driving while drunk. Intoxicated is intoxicated, regardless of whether it's alcohol, cocaine, or marijuana. In addition, the MA Governor, and Mayor of Boston, both lefty Democrats, were also against it.

[mwei924]

268. When did he ever say he was for legalization?

Jesus, stop acting so shocked over it. Unless you were living under a rock for the last 2 years, I don't see how you could think that.

I realize that many of you wanna smoke pot, but I'm personally glad Obama's not wasting any political capital on a losing battle when we have a million other big problems right now. At least it shows he's not stupid.

[wildbilln864]

274. ***kick! nt