whoa. whats THIS all about.

[Mari333]

Yesterday morning, early, I posted an inquiry and explained to a few people that my family just found out, through dna analysis, that we are about 85% Ashkenazi jewish.
Of course, we had all been raised thinking we were some hybrid mix of european catholics, and vague references were always tossed about but never did anyone speak of being Jewish.
Well, looks like thats all changed.
So, I broke the news to my brothers and sisters, who all thought it was delightful. We all figure someone back down the lineage was probably terrified of persecution and imminent death, so they converted to catholicism.
I called my brother today and asked him how he has been doing with his newfound lineage.
He said "Well, basically, my wifes family is freaking out."
"What??" I asked him "Whats their problem?"
"well, " he said "They just sat and looked at me, like they were in shock, and said 'you have JEW blood in you??' ". Now they wont even talk to me.
My brother then said
"I had no idea there was that kind of hatred out there..wtf is this all about??"
(he also feels like we have been robbed of our identity.but I told him, meh, dont worry about it. Just learn what you can now.)
so maybe some of you can enlighten me..
so I can enlighten him. is this the kind of response out there when someone finds out they are jewish?
I would like to think this is isolated.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

1. Wow. That is MESSED UP. I'm sorry to hear it. nt

[Xipe Totec]

2. Jesus was a Jew - break the news to them gently n/t

[Lex]

6. .

:thumbsup:

[RedCappedBandit]

66. srsly.

[alphafemale]

165. "You want to do...what? To my WHAT?"

:evilgrin:

[uppityperson]

177. Best reply for the family of the OP's relatives. nt

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

3. I'm not jewish nor

recently discovered I am. But I can tell you that the idea some people would use the word
'jew' as though it were a curse word is not suprising. Be careful.........

[rockymountaindem]

4. Welcome to the wonderful world of anti-Semitism

It just doesn't go away.

[crispini]

5. that's completely effed up.

dayum!

[amdezurik]

7. it would be ironic if his wife's DNA

were tested and came back with something like that LOL! Seriously looks like her family have some real "issues" with jews they don't talk about to "outsiders"...

[Mari333]

11. thats what I told him

get his wife tested. I have a sneaky feeling there are a LOT of jews who walk amongst the goyim thinking they are not jewish. Heck, I called myself a shiksa for decades. Now Im not, LOL.

[amdezurik]

22. depending on how long their family has been here

there could be a lot of surprises :)

[walldude]

25. No need to test her... she's what we would call around my house

Jewish by injection. :rofl:

[JerseygirlCT]

72. Oh my goodness

that's awful.

I'll have to tell my husband! That explains why I have to explain the Jewish holidays to my kids and not him! I'm Jewish by injection!

[EFerrari]

129. I first heard that from my mother-in-law.

:)

[Sequoia]

28. Now you can go out and buy a menorah.

I'm not Jewish but we sure like Hanukkah...December 22.

[elleng]

192. Dec 11 this year,

isn't it? NOT!

[roguevalley]

89. My mom's side lost that identity during the eighteen hundreds when

they couldn't find a synagogue where they lived in Northern california. I remember telling a windbag blowhard at work that we were Jewish and she looked at me for a moment, terribly surprised. Then she said, 'You are one of the Chosen People.' I said, 'yeah. neat, huh?' she nodded and never looked at me the same way again. Either people will love it or not and you will find the anti semites immediately. Fuck them. Tell them, like the poster said, that Jesus was a Jew (lord, do we even have to say that out loud? are people really that dense? yes) waaaaay the hell before he was a "christian" --tip of the hat to that idiot on the view, sherry something,- and shove that meme at them forcefully. People have forgotten that. God help us all. You have my sympathy, honey. Hold your head up.

[havocmom]

8. Hoping it IS isolated

but figure it is not.

Lots of bigotry out there, with VERY thin vaneer over it. Sad. But when times get tough, that bigotry thing seems to bubble up more than usual.

Congrats on your new-found additional heritage. May you have many enjoyable years exploring the richness of the tapestry that is your life and family history. :toast:

And may the bigots die of the boredom that is their narrow minds.

[janx]

9. Bigots are bigots.

There are some people walking around in this world, unfortunately, who denigrate anyone who isn't like THEM.

My ex in-laws are that way.

[villager]

10. Well, as a Jewish guy who's spent most of his life on the West Coast

(actually, a 50/50 bar, since we're talkin' lineage, with dad's side all fine ol' Episcopalians!), I must say I've never directly experienced *that* kind of reaction...

though it's surprising what you hear, now and again, when people *don't* know you're Jewish...

Oh: And welcome aboard! ;-)

[Mari333]

12. haha thanks

I am still trying to wrap my mind around it. I turn 57 and find out now Im Jewish. Go figure. LOL
everything happens for a reason
:)

[villager]

18. well, you haven't missed Hanukkah this year!

You can make those latkes on Christmas Eve -- I think that's the 3rd or 4th night of the holiday, this year! :hi:

[hlthe2b]

36. Ummm, Potato Latkes... now that makes me wish I were Jewish!

LOL

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. Only if you can trace it matrilineally

then pesky rabbies

:-)

And the middle ages and rape.

Hag Sameaj... aka have a good holiday, standard refrain for all Jewish Holidays except the new year and the day of the atonement

[Marr]

67. I believe you're required by law to have moved to Miami by now.

Better start packing!

[Mira]

120. Same thing happened to Sec of State Albright. She was up there in years when she found out.

[hedgehog]

14. I'm always suprised to hear what people have to say when they

don't know that two of my nieces are African American!

[jhrobbins]

134. I am a 50/50 too, except it is Presbyterian instead of Episcopalian

and I have never thought about it one way or another. When I would hear anti-Semitic stuff, often very thinly veiled (and some of it would come from my own family - not close, but cousins etc)I just considered the source. Anti-Semitism can come in various forms too - I would almost rather have an outright bigot than a closet hypocrite.

[walldude]

13. "I would like to think this is isolated."

Isolated? You heard of the war on Christmas? In case you haven't noticed what that really is is the "war on any religion besides Christianity". Also did you see the Senator from Utah Chris Butters(R)eal Asshole) who wanted to legislate saying Merry Christmas because we are a "Christian" nation? How many other times have you heard this referred to as a "Christian" nation? Every time you hear that it's a slap in the face to Jews. Welcome to the world of having to ignore the fact that you aren't welcome in this country.

[Mari333]

16. well, yesterday I went to WalMart

and on the way out, the greeter yelled "Merry Christmas!!" and I, with my new identity now bubbling , yelled back "Happy Hannukah!"
even tho, of course, I have never had a Hannukah celebration in my life. But it made more sense then ever to say that yesterday.

[Warren DeMontague]

19. I'll tell you. Latkes can be pretty good, although maybe not so much for the arteries.

The gefilte fish, I can do without.

[jhrobbins]

135. Then you haven't had gefilte fish that was made right then-I love it

with horseradish and a little sour cream(we have sour cream with everything). My favorite though is kugel.

[mucifer]

171. huge difference between store bought gefilte fish and mom or grandma made

gefilte fish. I've been a vegetarian for over 25 years but I remember quite well the difference. It takes all day to make the fish and it's something very special.

[walldude]

20. LOL. Careful, you don't want to wish a Happy Hannukah

to a fundie, an exploding head is not a pretty sight. :rofl:

[jazzjunkysue]

26. Plan ahead. Bring a mop and bucket.

:evilgrin:

[Joe Chi Minh]

180. I know the Christian Church, prior to Vatican II, had an uttterly shameful

record of anti-semitism, but in the Catholic Church, at least, the situation today could not be more different. Of course, all of mankind, very much including the Church, has good and bad members, but anti-Semites can no longer look for justification from their Church's teaching.

Well, perhaps a Jewish Brit will correct me if I'm wrong, but I've never had the impression that, when Christianity was our national religion - which admittedly seems an eternity ago - Jewish Brits ever felt threatened or harrassed by it. I know Moslems interviewed on the subject expressed bafflement when atheist local-government officials decreed that charities, such as the Red Cross, should not be permitted to sell Christmas cards as they might upset non-Christians - although I think it may have been rescinded. Probably Jewish people too.

Christianity is a development of Judaism, the child, if you like, of Judaism. Judaism is our mother. Without it there would be no Christian Church, no Christianity. That is why Christ said, "...... till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." He did not intend the spirit of Judaism to be viewed as in any way inimical to the spirit of Christianity, but rather, the contrary. You may recall that it was the spirit, not the legalistic emphases that Christ insisted upon.

It seems secular fundamentalist, Dawkins' crowd bought advertisements for atheism for display on our buses, and it's one of the dumbest things I've read in a long, long time. Christianity? They'd wonder what on earth he was talking about. The indifference to Christianity, in which our country now rejoices in spades, must be the un-Holy Grail of all militant atheists. How Dawkins has failed to grasp that must just be another part of the arcanely prosaic world he inhabits.

[hedgehog]

15. Slightly off-topic, but did you know that many of the Spaniards who came to America

during colonial times were the descendants of converts who figured that the further away they were from the Inquisition, the better?

[starroute]

80. They recently found that a lot of Spaniards are Jewish or Moorish

This is from just last week. The article cautions that the figure of 20% for Jewish male ancestry may be too high, since some of the Eastern Mediterranean genes could be from Phoenecian traders of 3000 years ago -- but on the other hand, a lot more Jews lived in Spain a lot more recently than any Phoenecians.

http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/39056/title/Spanish_Inquisition_couldn%E2%80%99t_quash_Moorish%2C_Jewish_genes

As many as one in 10 men from Spain and Portugal still carry genetic evidence of North African ancestry, and nearly twice that number had Sephardic Jewish ancestors, reveals a study in the Dec. 12 American Journal of Human Genetics. Those results don’t fit with expectations from the historical record.

Sephardic Jews, who were likely in the Iberian Peninsula since Roman times, were supposed to all have fled the region in the wake of pogroms and persecutions between the early eighth and 14th centuries. In the late 15th century, 160,000 Spanish Jews (Sepharadh is the Hebrew word for Spain) were expelled and then settled in other parts of the Mediterranean. . . .

But the new study, which analyzed Y chromosomes from 1,140 men from the Iberian Peninsula, shows that, even though large numbers of Sephardic Jews and Spanish Muslims left the peninsula, these groups also left behind descendents and a strong genetic presence.

[Warren DeMontague]

17. Tell him that he should threaten to gore them with his horns.

Yeah, I come from a mixed family, and I grew up in a town that was predominantly Jewish.. I never heard any anti-semitic stuff until I got older and moved away. It hasn't happened often, but when it does, it seems to be out of the blue, and it's always something jaw-droppingly stupid like that.

[AspenRose]

190. Where the hell does that "horns" thing come from???

I heard Randi Rhodes talking about that once. :wtf:

[Warren DeMontague]

197. Hell if I know.

But apparently Sarah Palin thinks people ran around with dinosaurs 4,000 years ago--- so apparently folks will believe all kinds of crazy shit. :crazy:

[AngryAmish]

21. My Mother in law, lidelong Democrat, abortion clinic volunteer...and vicious anti-Semite

She talks about "Jews" the same way Bush is talked about around here.

My folks certainly had their bigotries and maybe my memories of that have faded since their deaths...but it always startles me.

[hlthe2b]

37. So, I've always meant to ask... Are you Amish?

Since we are on the subject of religion and ancestry....

[AngryAmish]

44. Naw, don't the Amish have this thing against using computers, English?

[hlthe2b]

53. Well, I thought that might be why you

were "former" Amish and thus "AngryAmish"..... So why the screen name? ;)

[AngryAmish]

163. A tribute to a wrestler by the name of "Amish Roadkill"

[catnhatnh]

23. Well, Thank God...

At least your not Sephardi...(sarcasm)

[Soylent Brice]

24. Mari333, please don't reas this if you don't like offensive language, but if you don't mind...

tell them what i tell my in-laws:

GO FUCK YOURSELF YOU RACIST PIECE OF SHIT.

i mean, seriously!!

how fucking stupid and bigoted are these sacks of shit?

dude, i would be F-U-R-I-O-U-S. it would be the beginning of the end of any family cooperation, i can tell you that much.

piss poor excuses for human beings.

AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!

finding my calm, focusing my chi...

edit: for K&R

[janx]

35. Notice that I mentioned my ex in-laws, upthread...

When the divorce finally happened, my dear mother admitted to me that she knew it wouldn't work out, based on "cultural differences"...meaning, of course, that I wouldn't last long with a bunch of ignorant bigots!

:rofl:

I miss my mom.

[Sequoia]

27. That's quite disgusting of them.

[Lyric]

29. The same thing happened to me not that long ago.

I found out that my ostensibly-Christian East European great-grandparents were actually Ashkenazi Jews who converted to Christianity and then left for America. My great-grandmother even changed her name from Rochel (Slavic/Yiddish version of "Rachael") to "Mary" when she got to Ellis Island. My great-grandfather kept an Americanized version of his given name--Samuel. I think the European version was something like Shmuel. Anyway, their story is a sad one--whatever they were trying to get away from, my great-grandfather never recovered from the emotional trauma. When my grandmother was just a seven-year-old little girl (she was the youngest,) her father shot himself and died, leaving Great-Grandma Mary to raise their remaining minor children by herself.

My Grandma always told me that our family came from Germany, but that made no sense to me because I knew that her oldest brother had been imprisoned in first the Auschwitz, and then the Bergen-Belsen concentration camps. Grandma's explanation was that German soldiers had put him there for "betraying the homeland" or some such nonsense. When I got old enough to start doing genealogical research, I found out the truth--that her family was Slavic Jewish, not German, and that her oldest brother (whose Americanized name was "Arthur") had been an adult when his parents left Judaism, and had chosen to stay behind and stay Jewish. He was rounded up along with his neighbors when the Nazis deported the Jews from the Dobsina/Dobschau region, and sent to the camp to die. Somehow, he survived until the liberation, and then married my great-aunt Ruth, who I unfortunately never got the chance to meet, as she died when I was very small. I did get to meet Uncle Arthur, though, and he showed me his tattoo. My grandmother kept all of this secret, as she had become a Nazarene Christian, and had been brainwashed by her church to believe that Jews were "bad people" who "killed Jesus." Obviously she didn't want to tell anyone the truth of her own Jewishness, which is sad. I, too, feel robbed of my heritage, even though this is my father's family, which means that *I* would still not be considered "Jewish."



July 23, 1942- Deportation of Jews from Dobsina, Slovakia, to Auschwitz

For all I know, my own Great-Uncle Arthur is in that photograph somewhere.

[janx]

38. This is incredible!

How did you research this? :hi:

[Lyric]

47. It took me years.

But most of my "leads" came from distant family members--especially my Great-Uncle Arthur's oldest daughters, who (like their parents) were still Jewish, and who are now senior citizens. I had never met either of them before, but they found me while I was posting on ancestry forums, looking for leads about my grandmother's maiden name. We corresponded for a while, and they told me what *they* knew--the rest I found by searching out details that they gave me in order to corroborate the truth of the story. Of course, some of the details I had heard before (like my great-grandfather's suicide) but had never heard any explanations as to *why*.

What's hilarious is that my Grandma was such a stereotypical old Jewish woman that it isn't even funny, save for the fact that she attended a Christian church on Sundays. She had patently Jewish habits--covering the mirrors after a death, etc. Even her cooking was Jewish--after all, she'd learned from her mother, and her mother was a Jewish cook herself. I wish I could have known all of this before she died, so I could have tried to talk to her about it. She was always so closed-up about her family's history, but she thought that my father (her youngest son) walked on water, and his kids (a.k.a. us) were her favorite grandbabies by far. She might have talked to me, even if she never talked to anyone else. We were very close.

Another funny thing--she used to sing me this little song as I was falling asleep. She said she didn't even know what the words meant anymore, because she hadn't spoken "German" in so long. I learned a bit of German in high school, and I realized pretty fast that whatever she was singing, it *wasn't* German. I suspect some amalgamation of Hebrew/Yiddish/Slovak. I wish I could remember the words.

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. That is a classic story when people convert

I could fill a couple details

I am almost willing to bet that your Grand father converted to protect the family after a series of progroms in the late 1800s They were the worst since the middle ages, and until　ＷＷｉｉ

As to your grand mother she'd not tell you in order to protect you.

By the way. If the Rabbies goes rid of that matrilineal rule (the middle ages, progroms and rape) it be good. As far as I'

[jhrobbins]

139. I'm curious as to what you wrote means...

By the way. If the Rabbies goes rid of that matrilineal rule (the middle ages, progroms and rape) it be good. As far as I'

[roguevalley]

96. we spoke a lot of words in the family over generations that I didn't

know were yiddish but they were. Imagine my surprise. :) Minerva Schlegelmilch, my great-grandma.

[EFerrari]

133. I bet a large pizza that something like that happened to my father's family.

The only other person I've met with our name was a Polish Jewish lady at my college. I have no way to contact that side of the family though. Hmm.

[Mari333]

57. www.dnatribes.com

they send you a package, you swab the inside of your cheek. 2-3 weeks later, voila.

[Lyric]

45. Delete--wrong place

[Indenturedebtor]

151. They had to convert because though America was taking refugees.. no Jews allowed

As was the way for all other countries. Christian refugees ok... Jews can stay out and burn.

[knitter4democracy]

182. I grew up Nazarene. I'm so sorry she bought into that crap.

The Church of the Nazarene has quite the racist history, one of the reasons I left it. Now, most Nazarenes today wouldn't believe in that kind of crap, but it wasn't that long ago when women weren't even allowed to wear pants (finally lifted in the late 70s, early 80s, from what I heard). The reason the Wesleyan and Nazarene churches split and never have joined back together, despite completely identical theology and practice, was because the Wesleyan church came out for the Civil Rights movement, and the Church of the Nazarene didn't want to make waves in their southern churches.

[hfojvt]

30. suprising to me that you got 85%

I mean if one great-grandparent gave up Judaism to stay safer that would only be 1/8th of your lineage. To get over 50% don't you need Jewish hertiage from both your father and your mother's side? And from at least 3 of your 4 grandparents? That's not just one grandparent converting, that's a whole village descended from a group of Jews that switched back in the 1500s or something.

To give one example. On my mother's side I am descended from Melchior Honer, born 1616 in Spaichingen in the county of Schura in present day Wuerttemberg. But I am not the only one. In my database I have, so far, 9,621 descendants of this same person. I have also found that I seem to be related to EVERYBODY in Spaichingen and in most of the surrounding towns. That would be even truer, if I could trace Melchior's line back another 300 years or so.

So, if there was a group of ten families who converted in 1400 and were genetically successful then 400 years later, much of those people would have "Jewish blood" even though they have been practising Catholics for 400 years. It's probably not your family as much as it is their village or even their region. After 400 years in the same area with 16th century transportation technology everybody is related to everybody else in a region.

But in the sense that Judaism is a religion and religious traditions, you are no more Jewish now than you were six months ago.

[Mari333]

32. I agree. But it was still fascinating to find it out

and it looks like its both sides. the graph was huge. we called them and thats what they told us, there was also afghanistan and iraq on there , and some .00008 aboriginal from australia, which was really weird.
i will write to them and ask them to break it down better for us.
yes, i know, being jewish means tradition and culture. i have none of that. I do agree.

[jazzjunkysue]

31. Ex-shiksa here. Used to celebrate all holidays. Word of warning: Join weight watchers.

You're gonna need it!

But, actually, you're only going to be as jewish as you want to be.

The basic difference is that christianity is a faith, a belief in a human who was heaven sent and a savior.

The jews have no such obligation. Nothing to believe in, nothing to swear to, to raise your hand to. No one will ever ask you what you think about your religion or compel you to think a certain way.

In fact, the number one requirement to being a good jew is arguing. If you don't have a good religous argument with your rabbi, he won't take you seriously.

It's alot of fun!

There are 637 (or so) Official Jewish Laws, but there isn't a person alive who knows them all, let alone follows them all. And since the idea of sin and punishment and hell is not part of the bargain, do it all your way.

The jews allow their religion to evolve with the times and the locale. So, whatever you decide makes a jewish ritual, does. As long as it's somehow related to an old testament story or character or idea, it's jewish.

So, you're going to find that you've been jewish all along, you just didn't identify it that way.

And, all the holidays are errily parallel: Christmas is channukah. Easter is passover. Thanksgiving is sukkot. Just don't tell the christians: They honestly believe they made all this stuff up, themselves. Don't hurt their feelings and tell them that this is really all one big ball of ancient mythology.

Oh, yeah, One more thing: People are now going to be threatened by you because the church has insisted upon it.
Yep. Intolerance is one of the archetypal christian hallmarks. Just ask the pope.

[janx]

39. One of the best decisions I ever made

as an undergraduate, many years ago, was to take a course in the Old Testament from a rabbi.

[jazzjunkysue]

43. They're different, because they're not defending these strange conception stories.

They come to the books with open hearts, ready for new people to chomp through them and interperet them in new ways.

It's so much more open-ended, and that's a lovely feeling.

The word rabbi just means learned, not holy. Rabbi's are not one step closer to god or heaven than anyone else, so, they're entirely different than christian leaders who feel pressure to defend their book, their jobs, their rules.

I'm more comfortable in a reform jewish congregation than any kind of christian one, although I don't believe in any part of the bible and am not personally of jewish heritage.

My daughter is jewish, so, it keeps me involved a teensy bit.

[Indenturedebtor]

153. Thank you. That was a very Jewish post. n/t

[janx]

41. And by the way...

"join weight watchers"...has less to do with genetics than it does with a kick ass kosher deli!

:rofl:

[Mari333]

59. I have had a lot of jewish friends over the years

and been in their homes, and ate their food, and they were always nice to me. even once when i was in a strict household and mixed milk with meat.
and then there was the boyfriend i had in 1973 who i lived with for 2 years, and one day i brought up marriage to him.
he looked at me and said 'you arent jewish so I cant marry you.'
we split up soon after.
oh how i wish I could find him now.

[janx]

64. But what does this have to do with a good kosher deli?

:rofl:

[robinlynne]

116. You don't want someone like him in your life....

[Joe Chi Minh]

185. .... in a nutshell! There is no folly beyond the contrivance of the dumbest representatives of

mankind, although somehow we alway manage to be surprised by the depth of human malice, and its often wholly gratuitous nature. But, to pay more than the most fleeting heed to such twerps is itself a form of madness - which, I'm glad to see you recognised.

[Indenturedebtor]

154. If he took his Torah seriously he would have asked you to convert

Judaism is only passingly about blood.

After all... who did Abraham marry? Oh that's right... a non-Jew :eyes:

[FloridaJudy]

157. Or a Jewish Mother

Who makes killer latkes!

[Habibi]

101. LOL, sounds like Unitarian/Universalism!

"Whatever!"

[Indenturedebtor]

152. Please don't take this the wrong way but I disagree with much of what you've said here

"The basic difference is that christianity is a faith, a belief in a human who was heaven sent and a savior.

The jews have no such obligation. Nothing to believe in, nothing to swear to, to raise your hand to. No one will ever ask you what you think about your religion or compel you to think a certain way."

Actually Judaism is full of obligatory beliefs ranging from the religious to the philosophical and cultural. Though every Jew is obligated to study the Torah and to make it their own, Jewish life is full of obligation. We are commanded in hundreds of ways before one even gets to the Rabbinical laws. First of all - God is One. There are a million interpretations of that core tenet, but in reference to your Christian references... it's an important distinction. We are all contracted to serve God, to serve the world, to serve our familes.. in very distinct and precise ways. I'm no Rabbi, and if I were there wouldn't be enough space on this server to define the religious aspects of Judaism here... but I will say that in my opinion the core principal of Judaism is to obey God's law AND through that law and through the teachings of the Torah and creation to endeavor to basically become enlightened and holy enough to become closer to God's truth and to God him/herself. As has been said many times "God is Knowledge".

Though I will agree that Judaism is a much more personal religion. Rabbis are guides not petty lords ordained by god. They are more like professors than priests.


"In fact, the number one requirement to being a good jew is arguing. If you don't have a good religous argument with your rabbi, he won't take you seriously."

It is not the arguing but the caring. You are obligated to THINK and to STUDY the Torah and creation. The pursuit of knowledge of Torah and creation are central forms of worship. Arguing is part of that worship, as you are using your god-given gifts to appreciate your other god-given gifts... though of course I'm extrapolating here. Arguing isn't specifically encouraged but it could arguably be implied :D

"The jews allow their religion to evolve with the times and the locale. So, whatever you decide makes a jewish ritual, does. As long as it's somehow related to an old testament story or character or idea, it's jewish."

Though there are many family traditions... most Jewish traditions go back thousands of years. Many have been slightly colored by regional cultures but aside from the food most Jewish traditions are older than dirt.

"And, all the holidays are errily parallel: Christmas is channukah. Easter is passover. Thanksgiving is sukkot. Just don't tell the christians: They honestly believe they made all this stuff up, themselves. Don't hurt their feelings and tell them that this is really all one big ball of ancient mythology."

I agree to an extent but ffs please please please please look into why the similarities are there. The meaning and rituals of all of these holidays are extremely important and very distinct.

I don't mean to sound hostile, but my heritage and culture are extremely important to me. It's truly impossible to be a casual Jew, though it's ok to be a non-fanatical Jew. Judaism is about study and community, devotion, loyalty, heritage, faith, and mitzvot. It cannot be taken lightly if it is to be taken at all.

[hlthe2b]

33. I absolutely don't know how to respond to this... I'm not naive'

and I know some people harbor that kind of instinctual bigotry, but my heavens. I guess, give it time. I can't imagine anything your brother might say (and certainly no confrontation) that would make this "better." :shrug:

[Libertyfirst]

34. As President Elect Obama said, "I'm a mutt."

From what we know (no DNA analysis) in our family we are a little of just about everything going in the way of ethnic, religious, nationality and racial identity. We maintain that's what America is all about and are proud of the fact that each of us constitutes a little United Nations.

Unfortunately, there is that kind of hatred out there.

Whenever I hear any group being put down, criticized or maligned, I immediately assert my right to membership in that group.

Hello, Cousin!

[leftchick]

40. I do not know how isolated

But I will tell you this. About 25 years ago my very best friend of 45 years, a 100% Russian Jew (do not know the tribe) felt compelled to change her Jewish last name to something more generic. She did so legally and said it was for professional reasons due to Bias. I was really surprised at the time. No stunned. I had no clue, and after knowing her so long I asked why she never told me. She said 'what difference would it make? It is what it is. I just have to deal in the real world".

Her father was 100% behind her decision. In fact he may even have suggested it. He was a wonderful guy, brilliant, and like my second Father. He was also very astute which is why that all came at me as a shock. I would never question his motives.

I would love to believe times have changed and it is indeed isolated incidents now. But according to your report apparently not. How fucking sad.

:(

I am Catholic but perhaps I now need a DNA check. It would be so cool if Kit and I were Tribe related! :)

[Mari333]

42. dnatribes.com

we did it for fun. had NO idea. were completely surprised. I read about a black guy who did it, and he was shocked to find out he had NO dna sequencing from Africa. He had thought that all along. You just never know. hugs

[csziggy]

55. I recently met a black man who had just gotten his genetic sequencing

He was surprised to find that he had American Indian genes! He was very proud and wondered why he had never been told by his mother that there was native American blood in his background. A very interesting man, 89 years old, well up on what DNA and genetics were all about and a valuable source of local history. This reminds me - I wanted to contact one of the local black history groups and get them to tape or video him talking about the history he remembers from when he was young.

I suspect a lot of us will be surprised by what will show up in our genes and that for the most part we are all mutts.

[AntiFascist]

188. What about DNA test results showing that Cherokee are actually Ashkenazi...

http://www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org/html/announcements.html

:)

[csziggy]

196. That fits in with the Mormons claiming that Native Americans are the Lost Tribe of Israel

But since no group of humans can claim absolute purity - well, maybe Icelanders - I'd suspect some mixing along the way.

[RoseMead]

46. Ewwww! Jew blood!

:sarcasm:

Reminds me of the responses my husband sometimes gets when he mentions that his great grandfather was black. Sadly, anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry aren't nearly isolated enough in this country.


I think its neat that you've been able to find this out about your family heritage. We know next to nothing about my father's family. Grandpa was Sicilian, born in Palermo, came to America as a baby in the early 1900's - and that's where it ends. Mom's family, on the other hand, has been here since 1652. I would love to have some sort of DNA testing done someday, just to see what's in the mix. :P

[Swamp Rat]

48. We are definitely related.

:D

And to HELL with the anti-Semites!

[Mari333]

58. woohoooooooo

love the graphic

[Grey]

49. I did some research and found

Our Grandmother was jewish. When i told my sister, she said "No, She can't be, I'm sure she's Dutch"

Some people just can't handle 'stuff'. The other sister thought it was great.
I don't think it makes any difference, I'm still me.

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. I will use a very cynical response but this is quite standard

You see we Jews killed the savior...never mind the Pope forgave us in the 1960s after the Holocaust.

I am not surprised at all...and it is common. As a Jew, even thougb I am all but practicing any longer, that level of hate is right under the surface... worst in some areas than others.

Hey... don't worry the tail and horns are easy to hide (a myth that jews have those)...and the all encompassing guv'ment we seem to control has yet to give me a good job.

Get worried if the family starts pushing the blood libel (enjoy that christian blood during Passover? stick?)

Oh and this has a history going back all the way to Greek Times oh well before Christ... it has to do with this silly thing about being monotheistic and all those silly dietary laws.

There are books on this...and PhD dissertations and college courses...

Don't know how you can deal with this. When I married my hubby and he converted we faced this wih an aunt.

[Dorian Gray]

54. Bizarre

same person he was yesterday that he is today. Who cares what his DNA lineage is?

[Mari333]

56. must be some kind of racial purity meme from Indiana

thats all I could tell him (he lives in Indiana). I am going to send him all your responses..I think it will help him. thanks

[robinlynne]

78. hey. tyhe food is good. and we jews like to hug a lot. tell him to enjoy the good parts.

and skip the rest.

[Joe Chi Minh]

186. There is one primordial fact that makes any kind of racism anathema

to the Christian God. He created us and sustains us all (unless man interferes in his often murderous ways) at every split second of the day. And his plan is to adopt us into his own divine life, the life of the Holy Trinity, itself.

There isn't an African or a Jew or a person of any other persecuted race who God does not love as much as his own mother and father. (Of course, we could not reciprocate that infinite love to the degree that they do, but that's another issue). Indeed, Christ, himself, said that anyone who loves his own family members more than strangers cannot be a follower of mine. By that he was not talking about affective love, so much as the strongest and deepest kind of love, namely, a preparedness to sacrifice one's own life for a stranger or strangers. It is actually the Christian vocation; totally central and pivotal. It goes against our tribal nature, but we have to deal with it, to BEGIN to be Christians.

[Profprileasn]

60. Ridiculous response...

I can say no more. Didn't know people reacted that way anymore.

[fla nocount]

61. Last I checked, being Jewish was a set of beliefs, not a racial...

or genetic thing. Thanks Mari, I thought tonight was going to be slow. I don't know if you stumbled upon this issue or you're a social-science genius on a par with K. Rove. This could be a Febreze moment if someone takes the bait. Looking forward to it, hoping, hoping.

[nadinbrzezinski]

62. In an ideal world, but in the real world it is racial

why the holocaust happened

[fla nocount]

63. Ideal world? Is it a religion or not?

If you want to use the Semitic argument even though Caucasoid, Mongoloid and Negroid are the 3 recognized races, you must also recognize that the segment of the population described as Semitic is 96% Arab and includes Ethiopia and Macedonia with a rainbow of colors, stripes and ethic influences.

Being a Celtic/NA mutt myself I'm fascinated by arguments of where you were explaining where and what you are. Thanks again Mari.

[nadinbrzezinski]

65. If you ask any reasonable Jew or gentile it is a religion

ask any antisemite...and then the race argument comes at you like a freight train

Read the German Purity laws...those were RACE based

Sorry, as I said in a normal and ideal world it is a religion...but for antisemites, open or not, jews are a race... and didn't you know we control the world?

[fla nocount]

68. Peace friend, I was hoping to bait a dumbass.

Being spiritually and culturally an indigenous and agrarian native of Turtle Island nobody needs to explain the concept of "holocaust" to me though I find the term dated and overused, genocide is more accurate. Separating the abuse of humans among humans and thus making some humans more worthy of being human by the amount of abuse, both real and imagined, that their ancestors suffered seems self defeating in joining together in a new future.

Joining together as a group of abuse victims with a specific agenda will solve and correct nothing, nothing at all. Identifying as a group is nothing more than recognizing that "they have starz upon tharz." Remove the wedge and we might all remember that we are all, each and everyone of us, oxygen-dependent carbon-constructs and fellow astronauts on this tiny blue marble speeding through space.

We will all escape this together or none of us will escape at all. Tear down the walls.

Thanks Mari for giving it a shot, maybe next time it will grow legs.

[Indenturedebtor]

155. It's not called "The Holocaust" in Hebrew

but yeah it was a distinct thing. Why? Because the Holocaust was a mechanical industrial attempt at exterminating an entire people. That in and of itself makes it distinct. A people's remembrance of that horror doesn't seek to elevate it... nor does the Western remembrance of the Holocaust do so either (Hi yeah it was the most recent and most horrendous pogrom in modern Western History).

On top of that for Jews when you talk about the Holocaust we don't hear the same thing that you do. We hear "This was the culmination of thousands of years of Westerners trying to kills us off like dogs." 2,000 years of Europe trying to kill us off after forcing us to do the shit work, raping our women, stealing from us, etc... I'm not saying this to try to say that we're special in some way, that we deserve pity or sympathy or anything. But we say it to remind each other. NEVER AGAIN is not so much a plea as a promise.

We are all together, and we are all one as humans. But we are also all different and special as people. There is nothing wrong with taking pride in one's heritage, and in one's culture. Judaism is only superficially about blood. It is about culture and a specific worldview and history. I want to serve mankind, and much of that desire comes from my heritage as a Jew.

[robinlynne]

76. I am a jew. I am an atheist. Every member of my family is non-religious. It is a race.

The religion, to us, is really nothing. Some Jews have christmas trees. Some have Hannukah. It is a race. I'm so surprised people do not know this.
This is really quite interesting.

[robinlynne]

77. not true. see my posts below.

[jhrobbins]

142. I am reasonable and I know that it is more than religion. We used to

argue this a lot, but the consensus with us anyway, is that it is more than a religion and less than a race. A culture maybe; maybe religious culture.

[robinlynne]

148. not a religious culture. a culture if you want. and DNA traits. half of us have NOT the religion.

We have the blood.

[robinlynne]

73. NO. It is a race. a bloodline. It is also a religion. but that is not what people are killed over.

[fla nocount]

81. As a "race", what are your...

distinguishing characteristics? How does this "bloodline" evidence itself to the outside observer? How can I identify what makes you different from the rest of us human beans? Truly, I'm curious and like the rest of the beans, I'm on this planet to learn. Explain please.

[robinlynne]

82. generally you can tell from the nose, sometimes from the hair. (curly and thick)

but there are two kinds of Jews, two bloodlines, so there are dark skinned, olive skinned, like me with dark curly hair, and there are also blue-eyed lighter skinned jews.
I am half and half, so I have blue eyes from one side and dark hair and skin from the other side. But basically it is physical, based on your DNA. but the racism is only based on your mother being jewish because I guess in older times they didn't have DNA tests to see who your father was. So always the children of jewish women were killed, not the children of Jewish men with non-Jewish women. That goes for the second world war, and for pre Christian times.
i think in the second world war they took it one step further, and if you had a jewish grandparent on either side you were killed, with the exception of Hitler of course. whose father's father was jewish.
My entire family was killed in Europe, except for the ones who came here in the early 1900s. So I can't ask them.

[fla nocount]

93. I haven't laughed so hard and so long in a long...long time...

Thank you, I'll sleep sound tonight...and dream of you.

[robinlynne]

100. what's funny?

[fla nocount]

102. Stop, stop...you're killing me...

I really need to go to sleep. You should do stand up, you're great.

[uppityperson]

175. I think you are talking Sephardi and Ashkinazi (sp?) but you write very broad physical characteristi

characteristics. You do know there are many dark skinned, olive skinned with dark curly hair people who are not Jewish, and many blue-eyed lighter skinned people who aren't Jewish, right? No, you cannot tell from the nose or the hair since there are many people with those physical characteristics.

You can, in general, differentiate between Ashkenazi and Sephardi since eastern European and near/middle eastern people have, in general, different physical characteristics like you mention.

[robinlynne]

84. oh. btw we are also human beings. We are NOT different from all other human beings.

ALL HUMAN BEINGS HAVE RACIAL characteristics. And I for one think they are all equally beautiful.

[robinlynne]

85. Why are you being sarcastic? We are not a "race". We are a race.

[robinlynne]

87. P.S. I'm guessing there are not a lot of jewish people where you live and that is why you don't know

what we look like? ever seen a movie?

[fla nocount]

97. Check the avatar sweetheart...

you're riding with the Proto-Palestinian. There's only one world and we're both on it...gimme a hug.

[Joe Chi Minh]

187. How about, they're so much smarter than any other race. Or hadn't you noticed?

In that sense, there seems to be an incontrovertible genetic inheritance. So, you're certainly asking the right people, but I wonder if you have the humility learn from them.

[Joe Chi Minh]

189. Maybe "psychological inheritance" would be more apt than "genetic inheritance",

although presumably associated with the genes inherited by the person in some way; akin to the dissimilar, typical psychological inheritances males and females seem to pass on. A dual spiritual and genetic inheritance, consonant with the opposing arguments here, although "spiritual" in this case being primarily religious, and not simply human or mammalian, as in the gender example.

[wtmusic]

193. It is not a race.

"Being Jewish is not a race

Being Jewish is not a race because Jews do not share one common ancestry or biological distinction. People of many different races have become Jewish people over the years.

Being Jewish is not a nationality

Being Jewish is not a nationality because Jews have been dispersed throughout the world for almost two thousand years. People of many different nationalities are Jewish."

http://judaism.about.com/od/abcsofjudaism/a/beingjewish.htm

Can you back up your position with a link?

[robinlynne]

71. NO it is not a set of beliefs. It is a bloodline. nothig more than that, although there is also

the Jewish religion, which is a set of beliefs. (a set of beliefs I do not subscribe to.)It is the same as being native american or irish or black or whatever. The reason it is a bloodline and has nothing to do with beliefs, is because throughout history, we have been killed if our mother is/was jewish, whether or not we were religious. I come from 4 generations of atheists, socialists, back then even. but my family was killed in Europe in the same way that religious families were killed. It made no difference. And my grandfather was fired from GE in the fifties, although he was a scientist and an atheist. he was a Jew. If your mother is a Jew, you are a Jew. That's how it works.

[Indenturedebtor]

159. No I'm sorry. Judaism is only passingly a bloodline.

Our worldview, our shared cultural heritage, our traditions going back thousands of years are what make us Jewish. I dance and sing and worship as dozens of generations of my forebearers did. I have studied what they have studied, I can speak as they spoke, I can share the same thoughts through our philosophy. Yes there is bloodline, yes there are certain traits and diseases that many of us share... but we are a PEOPLE not a race.

Without the culture I don't think that one can be Jewish. It is your mind that makes you Jewish, not your blood.

[roguevalley]

98. I have found from time to time just looking at someone with great

astonishment in my expression and say, "I didn't know you were a bigot (or racist)." is enough.

[robinlynne]

69. I am jewish. i grew up in an atheist family. I never really knew what jewish even meant.

Then we went to live in Europe for a year, my mother on sabbatical, psychology professor. I went to the "American" school. Kids started writing kike on my locker, hitting me, and putting scorpions in my jackets. I had no idea what was going on. Not a clue. I had to have my family explain it to me. I was 13 at the time. Now, 37 years later, I am proud of my history, and my heritage, just as I think all people from all cultures should be proud of their heritages and history. What they did to me at that school, made me become Jewish, not religious, but made me understand my family history and want to learn more about it, generations and generations.
people don't usually "find out" they are Jewish. Your sisterinlaw's family has some growing o do, obviously. This reminds me of a book which was written during the beginning of the civil rights movement, perhaps before, a white man who painted himself black to see what it felt like. It is invaluable for anyone to go through such an experience to understand what racism is, how other people feel, and try to educate those who need educating. It is very scary when a racist person confronts you with their ignorance. But it is an invaluable lesson about humanity and what is important. The main thing is what he will take away from this experience, and what he will do with it. Hopefully it will make him stronger, and a better person, as opposed to causing great pain.

Very interesting post.

[Mari333]

91. thank you for replying to him

i had to use ignore which i have never done before because i cannot bear being called names.
so its a bloodline, to be jewish. i am so confused.
its sort of like, when someone asks me, okay, who are your ancestors, can i now say Ashkenazi jews? but if I didnt grow up in jewish traditions then do i say oh i am not a religious jew but i am a jew by ancestry?
I dont know. I am totally confused. thanks.

[robinlynne]

103. Yes. That's what many of us are. Jews who are not religious.

I only went to temple one time when I was 12 to see what it was about. I hated it. They had the women sitting separate from the men and that offended me terribly. I tried different churches too, and didn't like any of them, so I decided to be non-religious, the way I was brought up.
Now Jewish culture and the religion too, like all other cultures and religions have beautiful things and awful things....
one good thing the religion does have, which I think is nice is: when a person dies you are not allowed to decorate the coffin or the funeral in any way. Everyone is buried in a simple pine box. The reason is: that no human being deserves more than another at this moment, so poor people and rich people must bury their people in the same coffin, so that no one can ever claim that they gave a "better" burial than someone else. but in general, the religion sucks just like all the others. And the ideals behind the religion are probably great just like the ideals behind all the others are supposed to be great.

Wow this is an exciting moment for you. But, basically nothing has changed. Only the history of your forefathers. Please feel free to ask me anything any time, but I really do not know about the religious part at all, nor do I want to...Many Jews were socialists, here in the US, in Russia, and all over Europe, hence the large group of non-religious Jews. I know my family history is of starting the first unions here in the US 4 generations ago.

[Mari333]

106. thanks, this thread has morphed into a 'what is a jew' thread

and i am actually glad, because I am so confused. HUGS

[robinlynne]

110. I am shocked to see well read people think it is not a bloodline! I have never even met a person who

did not know that before!
This is quite educational to me.
From what I can see, people do not have a clue as to what jewish is... which is pretty shocking...
I mean I do know a little bit about other people I ave never met, like Eskimos. not a lot, but the very basics about other people we should all know....

[Indenturedebtor]

158. I am sorry that you didn't learn more about Judaism

Myself I am reform. I don't like the seperation in Temple either... in fact they got rid of that in Reform Judaism. On the surface that tradition would seem to make women inferior, but it's really more in the vein of seperate classrooms heh. There aren't supposed to be any hookups/distractions in Temple ;) However there is some oldschool not so feminist ish in Orthodox Judaism.

Even though I think those folks need to evolve, you should be proud of the overall feminist heritage of Judaism. Throughout history Judaism has been one of the most socialist and egalitarian cultures in the world. Read the Torah for starters ;) Lots of strong capable women in there.

Please learn more about our heritage and our worldview. One visit to a temple when you're 12 and various impressions gleaned through a Western/Christian lense are no way to get in touch and get a true impression of your heritage.

[live love laugh]

179. What did your family explain to you? Just curious how this is explained. nt

[JerseygirlCT]

70. Wow. I sure would like to think it's isolated, too

But OTOH, did your brother not have any other inkling that these people were raving bigots? "Jew jokes" or other stuff at get-togethers? Seems strange that that sort of nastiness would just suddenly come to light without any previous hint.

I mean, if not, it's got to be a huge shock to him. And what does your SIL think? Is she willing to support her family in this or her husband? Me, I would have walked out, I think.

No, first they would have gotten a nasty talking-to.

Wow.

[LiberalHeart]

74. So DNA shows what religion you are? Kewl.

[robinlynne]

75. DNA shows your race. Jewish is a race. There are more non-religious Jews than religious Jews, by the

way.

[hedgehog]

88. More properly, a group of related people, a very large extended family if you will,

with a long historical record.


DNA analysis has confirmed many Jewish traditions about family history.

[robinlynne]

104. I like it, works for me.

[Mosby]

90. I'm going to have to disagree

and I have read your posts in this thread but from my perspective I find this whole idea of "jew blood" extremely offensive. Jews do not have some sort of uniform genetic profile, even among eastern europeans, it's a religion that crosses over "races". Moreover, Judaism more than most other religions is based not just on identity but practice, there needs to be some amount of commitment to make the tradition meaningful. Whatever genetic testing the OP underwent, all that was demonstrated was eastern european origins.

[Mari333]

94. okay thanks for clearing that up and hugs n/t

[fla nocount]

99. Good post, no silliness here. n/t

[robinlynne]

105. absolutely not true. sorry you are wrong. There are people who are not of jewish blood and convert.

They will have different DNA. but a very simple blood test identifies you as Jewish or part Jewish. There are even diseases (brain) which only Jews have, and research abot it.

[Mosby]

113. That's my point

There is no "jewish blood" since anyone that wants to be jewish can be.

Genetically speaking however the eastern european Jews just represent a sub population of the worldwide jewish community and due to the isolation of the diaspora in that part of the world over time recessive genes appeared and continue to persist.

[robinlynne]

115. No. Anyone can have the religion. That is all. That has NOTHING to do with our race or our history.

Anyone can read about being a NAtive American and convert to their religion. That does not make you NAtive American. You can call yourself Native American if you want to. Native American is a bloodline, just like Jewish.
It also has a culture and a religion. but that is not what makes you jewish. What makes you jewish is your anccestry.

[fla nocount]

121. There is no NA religion. There's a spiritual center espressed...

with different myths, tales and analogies but there is no dead male as god. We are heathens, we have no God, just the Universe and it's laws.

[robinlynne]

124. what?

[robinlynne]

125. dead male? Of course there are many of us without religion! All over the world.

And we are just like everyone else. There is no need for myths where I come from. Science works just fine. and human decency does too.

[robinlynne]

117. I see e your little menorrah, but you are not really jewish, or you would know this.

The religion has NOTHING to do with the bloodline. They are two separate things. Not even close to each other.
I would guess there are more jews in this country who do NOT practice the religion than there are people of any bloodline who do. many become Christians, or atheists. We had christians in our family on one side way back. BUT THEY ARE OF THE JEWISH RACE. period.

[Mosby]

166. No need to be rude.

I have been very polite in my posts, but this "jewish race" crap is getting old. You do understand by now that it's jew haters the world over who obsess about "jewish blood". Go to any skinhead site and you can read article after article about "jewish blood" or the "jewish race".

Undoubtedly there are lots of Americans who no longer practice the religion of their ancestors, that's their choice. If they want to explore Judaism no one is stopping them, in fact the Chabad love to help those folks. But simply having Jewish relatives does not make one part of the tribe. Judaism is about doing, the movement I belong to has specific behavioral expectations:

The "Ideal" Conservative Jew: Eight Behavioral Expectations

by Rabbi Jerome Epstein

The ideal Conservative Jew:

1. Supports a Conservative synagogue by participating in its activities.
2. Studies as a Conservative Jew a minimum of one hour per week.
3. Employs learned Jewish values to guide behavior even when it conflicts with personal feelings or inclinations.
4. Increases personal Jewish living out of commitment and as a result of thought, by adding a minimum of three new mitzvot a year.
5. Employs the values of tikun olam to help in the world's continual repair.
6. Makes decisions about Jewish behavior only after considering the effect these decisions will have on Klal Yisrael.
7. Increases ties and connections to Israel.
8. Studies to increase his or her knowledge of Hebrew.

Many people mistakenly believe that Conservative Judaism is "pick and choose" Judaism -- that there are no rules or expectations. In truth, however, Conservative Judaism is committed to Jewish tradition and to the observance of mitzvot.

The teachings of our Movement should affect the way we live our lives -- for if Judaism does not shape our daily decisions and lifestyle, then it is meaningless. An ideal Conservative Jew is a striving Jew, one who is always trying to grow in commitment and knowledge. Each of us should continually climb the ladder of observance. Conservative Judaism asks us to learn and to grow.

Below, we offer eight behavioral expectations to help you build the foundations of a strong and committed Conservative Jewish lifestyle.

http://www.uscj.org/The_Ideal_Conservati5033.html

I. Between Persons -- A Life Guided by Jewish Values

Showing that their life is informed by Jewish ethical values in the way in which they relate to others. A life informed by Jewish ethical values includes:

1. An awareness that Jewish values are grounded in a sense of commandment, the uncovering of an external source of truth emanating from God and sanctified by the Jewish people's ongoing work at understanding what God wants of us.
2. Making decisions in their ethical life informed by such Jewish values as:
* Tzedakah - giving to make the world a more just place
* Kibud av va'aim - honoring parents
* Lashon ha'ra - refraining from hurting others through speech
* G'milut hesed - acts of loving kindness
* Emet - truth telling
* Tikun olam - mending the world
* K'lal Yisrael - identifying with the Jewish people
* Ahavat habriyot - a loving concern for others
* B'kur holim - visiting the sick
* Limud Torah - Jewish learning
* B'tzelem Elohim - All humans are created in the Divine image
3. Having an active Hebrew vocabulary of some thirty-six Jewish value concepts (see #2 above for examples) which they will apply appropriately to situations. Such value concepts will inform their actions.
4. Understanding that to decide what is right takes thought and knowledge.
5. Understanding that doing what is right can take inner-courage.
6. Knowing that doing what is right, though sometimes difficult, can be a source of great satisfaction.
7. Desiring to do what is right and doing it.
8. The study of selections of TaNaKH and rabbinic literature that embody value concepts and the Jewish people's dialogue through the generations to determine how they should be applied.
9. Participating in tikun olam and g'milut hesedfor Jews and non-Jews.

http://www.uscj.org/Aims_Statement_for_C5398.html

Don't see anything there about Jewish blood, do you?

[Mari333]

107. the graph specifically said "Ashkenazi"

when I read the genetic profile. thats more specific then eastern european.

[robinlynne]

112. He or she is calling it eastern european because there are two types of

Jews. Ashkenazi and Sephardic. Sephardic Jews settled in Spain, and are dark skinned. Ashkenazi Jews settled in Russia and northern europe. You probably have someone with blue eyes in your family, parents or grandparents?

[robinlynne]

108. You are extremely wrong. Jewish DNA is measurable and Jewish. It is not eastern european.

We are semites. The closest DNA to Jewish would probably be Arabs, another semitic group, not European. I do not know if Arab is the correct word, becuase I dont know the geneic differences between Persians and Arabs, for example; I have never read about it, so I may be using a word (Arab) without knowing if that is the correct word. but physically we look a lot alike.

[Mosby]

118. Whether the OP ancestors were jewish or not

is not the main point I'm making, I'm saying that the OP is not somehow automatically Jewish because a grandfather/mother or great-grandfather/mother was jewish, like all religions it's a personal decision.

[robinlynne]

119. IT IS NOT A RELIGION. IT IS NOT A DECISION. IT IS A RACE. It only depends on your parents'

blood. NOTHING LSE. You can be Jewish and catholic or chirstian or whatver you wnat. But your race is JEWISH. You are confusing the religion with being jewish. Being jewish is your blood not what or how you think or believe. It is your DNA. IT IS PHYSICAL!!!!!! IT is the same as being black or Indian or white or whatever!

[Grimm]

126. This debate feels like watching a dog chasing its own tail

So I'm posting this fun little website: http://www.jewfaq.org/judaism.htm

It's my first-stop recommendation for any and all seeking knowledge on Judaism. Let's see what they have to say:

The Jewish People are a Family

It is clear from the discussion above that there is a certain amount of truth in the claims that it is a religion, a race, or an ethnic group, none of these descriptions is entirely adequate to describe what connects Jews to other Jews. And yet, almost all Jews feel a sense of connectedness to each other that many find hard to explain, define, or even understand. Traditionally, this interconnectedness was understood as "nationhood" or "peoplehood," but those terms have become so distorted over time that they are no longer accurate.

Rabbi Adin Steinsaltz has suggested a better analogy for the Jewish people: We are a family. See the third essay in his recent book, We Jews: Who Are We and What Should We Do. But though this is a new book, it is certainly not a new concept: throughout the Bible and Jewish literature, the Jewish people are referred to as "the Children of Israel," a reference to the fact that we are all the physical or spiritual descendants of the Patriarch Jacob, who was later called Israel. In other words, we are part of his extended family.

So...did I just confuse the issue even more?

[robinlynne]

131. You're quoting from a rabbi. Yes some people may think religion is important.

Especially religious people.. As your article says it is PHYSICAL. And it is "spiritual" to religious people. NOT to the rest of us. I don't care about religions. I am not going to debate the Jewish religion. It is insignificant in this discussion. totally insignificant.
On last time: Our people were killed because of who their mothers were, because of their race, not because of their beliefs!!!!!!!!

Being a Muslim is not being an Arab. Muslim is a religion. Arab is an ancestry. They are two separate and very different things. Got it? One is who you are because of your parents, your ancestry. the other is what you believe. Anyone can become a Muslim by conversion. Anyone can NOT become an Arab. Either you are or you are not.
unfortunately in this one case they both use the word Jewish.
That does not make them one thing.

[Grimm]

136. The author is not a Rabbi

The author of the idea of Jews as a Family is, but the author of the entire article is an Orthodox Jew.

On to the issue at hand, you're arguing Judaism is a race, because that's what the Nazis defined it as when they went after our parents, grandparents and great-grandparents. I don't think that's a good measuring stick for "Who is a Jew."

The problem with Jew = race (and only race) is that we have so many tribes spread through the world. There's obviously the Ashkenazi one you're focusing on, but there's also the Sephardics, the Mizrahim, the Ethiopian tribe, the Indian tribe and Chinese tribe (the last three names slip my mind at the moment). It's pretty difficult to conflate all 6 of those groups together into one overall race. And that's assuming I got all the tribes out there (I'm sure I'm forgetting some).

Given that blood tests can show how your Jewish ancestry (most likely in terms of Ashkenazi ancestry), I guess the question is does that make groups like Italian, Irish, Greek, etc. races as well? I'll admit I'm unfamiliar with blood tests, but I hear even French-Canadians ancestry can be discerned by blood tests, yet I don't know anyone who'd call the Quebecois a race.

[robinlynne]

141. Mizrahim means Ashkenazim. same group.

I have never heard of Indian or Chinese tribes. but I'm sure they all came from the same tribe, in the middle east. Just because people settle all over the world does not change their DNA. African Americans have the same DNA as African Africans. think about it. Unless they mixed, but that is not what we are talking about.
i have no idea if you can tell italian DNA. i don't think so. but I have never asked or read about it. so I don't know.
I do know Jewish DNA is Jewish DNA. We are no caucasian although we may look caucasian. We come from a different ancestry, thousands of years ago. As far as I know there are only two different Jewish DNA types.. Ashkenazim and Sephardi. never heard of the others, except for Mizrahim which is another name for Ashkenazim. same thing.

I really find no similarities between myself and orthodox jews, so I'm not going to discuss what they believe. My beliefs are much closer to Brazilian catholics than to Orthodox jews.

My bloodline and my DNA, however are identical to theirs.

[Mosby]

167. wrong

Mizrahi Jews are from the middle east and north africa, countries like Yemen, Morocco, Iran, Iraq, had large populations of Jews at one time, but most have been forced out and now live in Israel and the US. They are very distinct from ashkenizi, and in fact their religious services are much more similar to sephartic.

[robinlynne]

173. yes I was wrong. i already apologized and explained it. just didn't atach it to the

exact thread. attached it to another by the same poster.

[Mosby]

137. You sound like you identify with Judaism

and I think that's great. But we cannot allow ourselves to be defined by anti-semites.

That's what you do when you focus only on race.

[robinlynne]

143. I do not identify with the religion. but I am proud of my family and my heritage.

as I would be of any family and of any heritage.

I understand why you feel as you do. What Hitler did (for example) makes me feel more Jewish, not less Jewish. I only knew I was Jewish to begin with because of anti-semitism. Where I grew up eveyrone was Jewish, so it didn' meananything. I thought it was normal. never occurred to me that anyone could think there was something differnet between a jew and a white person or a black person. I was raised that all people are people.

[robinlynne]

149. I dont know where the thread is but you were right there are chinese jews, etc.

I just read about it. even greek jews. I did not know that.

but phsyically only two groups. I think the other divisions are about where their ancestors settled. china, africa, middle east, etc.
but i is interesting. I never knew there were chinese or greek jews....

[fla nocount]

127. You're such a barrel of chuckles, how do you do it?

One after another and each better than the last. Did you know that a person can laugh through their nose?...hurts.

[robinlynne]

132. Read some books. or go to sleep. your ignorance is not my fault.

[robinlynne]

123. ancestry is the ONLY point. It is the only way you are or are not a Jew.

I'm sorry, but you are not hearing, and I'm very sorry someone taught you wrong information. You are not the only one here who does not know anything about jewish history. BUT listen to me. IT IS NOT A RELIGION!
My family was not murdered for a religion. They had no religion. They were murdered because of their race. Because of who their mothers were. Do you get it now?
I'm sorry I do not mean to be rude.
This is shocking to me.

[Indenturedebtor]

161. Ancestry is not the Only point. Don't let Hitler define your Heritage

Judaism is a state of mind and heart. There are many forms of Judaism but they are more alike than different.

[cali]

92. No. Jews are not a race. Please stop spreading ridiculous and unscientific misinformation

Ethnicity is not the same as race- and for that matter, race is largely a social structure.

[Th1onein]

79. The Ashkenazi Jews carry cystic fibrosis

This is not good.

[LeftishBrit]

170. Not especially. It's much commoner in white than non-white people; but not Ashkemazi Jews especially

You may be thinking of Tay-Sachs disease. That is commoner in Ashkenazi Jews than others, though rare. As it's a recessive gene, it is not likely to affect the children of a mixed marriage. In any case, I doubt that this is what Mari's in-laws are worried about. They are just being bigoted. Antisemitism is sadly one of the oldest sorts of prejudice.

[alittlelark]

83. Tay-Sachs disease would be the only worry

If their family had Jewish genes there could be a concern


If they are just racist assholes.... well.....Fuck'em.

[JNelson6563]

86. Sad.

Jesus wept. :cry: :grouphug:

[JustAnotherGen]

95. I don't know what to tell you

But I think it's cool! :pals: It's much cooler than being bi-racial in NY and finding out you had a Confed Colonel in your lineage. :rofl:

Just remind them that Jesus is Jewish. Christianity is a fairy tale made up 300 years after his death! ;-)

[Grimm]

109. Welcome to the conspiracy

We'll send you your complimentary set of retractable devil horns and Mossad-certified decoder ring later this week. The password is "Dreidel."

In all seriousness, I think different people just have different reactions to meeting their first Jewish person face-to-face. A friend of mine was dating a non-Jewish girl and her mother chased him out of the house with a broom the moment his religious affiliation became public. There were also stories from my high school sports team (Jewish private school in a sports league with mostly Catholic schools) of pennies being thrown at the players when they entered the school.

On the other hand, I and most other Jews I know have never experienced any first-hand discrimination. It might help that we live in multi-cultural Toronto, but that could be my city pride/ego talking. Heck, my roommate told me recently that I'm the first Jew she's ever met (at age 28) and nothing changed with us. Sorry to hear about your brother's situation, but if they really have issues, just let them know something like "love the sinner, hate the sin" or whatever other proverb is used to tell people to get other silly prejudice.

Ultimately, (and this is from experience in way too many message board wars) prejudice is best met with education 99% of the time.

Oh, and the race vs. religion vs. ethnicity vs. organism vs. tribe vs. nation vs. alien argument is older than time itself. Bottom line, it doesn't matter to anyone who isn't either a bigot or worried about being lactose intolerance (stupid Ashkenazi genetics not letting me eat ice cream...)

[Mari333]

111. you mean to say this is argued a lot?

about what being a jew is? see, I am starting to see that now. I have had so many answers my head is reeling.
hugs

[Grimm]

114. Pretty much

As strange as some of those things I mentioned were, I have seen ideas like Jews as organisms and aliens approached by serious scholars (well, less so on the latter, but still debated).

In the end, I think it's what you make it to be. Plenty of people are Jewish by birth, but don't acknowledge it ever again. Some define every aspect of their life by being Jewish. Most of us live a happy medium where it's shaped our perspective and given us a community to bond with, but we're not going to give up our bacon wrapped cheeseburger just because. This isn't 1930-era Germany and what you being Jewish means is completely up to you. If you're seriously interested in the religion, I've got some links I could share, but if it's just a novelty to you, then don't think twice about it. It's a fun icebreaker and no one is going to crucify you for stating it.

[Mari333]

130. theres a temple in my town

I am going to visit the rabbi and talk to him about it. maybe he can shed some light on it. hugs.

[Grimm]

140. Best of luck

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I also recommend http://www.jewfaq.org as a great learning resource.

Specifically, http://www.jewfaq.org/judaism.htm may be helpful for determining what it means to be Jewish.

As well, I'm sure there's plenty of Jews like myself on the world wide web that can't get enough about talking about our religion without having the conversation start "No, we don't believe Jesus is the Messiah" or "No, we don't control the U.S."

One of my favorite proverbs is "Two Jews. Three opinions." Just look at the debate above as to what a Jew is to see it in action. You'll get plenty of opinions on just about any Jewish topic, so just a friendly warning that there may be a lot to take in, but I'm sure you can handle it.

Cheers and best of luck in your search.

[robinlynne]

145. oh no, a rabbi....

They'll tell you you aren't a real jew unless you do everything they want you to do.....
(I'm mostly serious on that one.)

[Mari333]

146. LOLokay

and sleep well.thank you for enlightening me soooo much..i appreciate it more then i can say here.
:hug:

[robinlynne]

147. Hey that wikipedia article has a wealth of information if you click on all the links

on the right!
here's one part about genetics:

Genetic studies of DNA

See also: Y-chromosomal Aaron, Genealogical DNA test, and Matrilineality

Despite the evident diversity displayed by the world's distinct Jewish populations, both culturally and physically, genetic studies have demonstrated most of these to be genetically related to one another, having ultimately originated from a common ancient Israelite population that underwent geographic branching and subsequent independent evolutions.<3>

A study published by the National Academy of Sciences found that "the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population", and suggested that "most Jewish communities have remained relatively isolated from neighboring non-Jewish communities during and after the Diaspora".<3> Researchers expressed surprise at the remarkable genetic uniformity they found among modern Jews, no matter where the diaspora has become dispersed around the world.<3>

Moreover, DNA tests have demonstrated substantially less inter-marriage in most of the various Jewish ethnic divisions over the last 3,000 years than in other populations.<4> The findings lend support to traditional Jewish accounts accrediting their founding to exiled Israelite populations, and counters theories that many or most of the world's Jewish populations were founded by entirely gentile populations that adopted the Jewish faith, as in the notable case of the historic Khazars.<4><5> Although groups such as the Khazars could have been absorbed into modern Jewish populations — in the Khazars' case, absorbed into the Ashkenazim — it is unlikely that they formed a large percentage of the ancestors of modern Ashkenazi Jews, and much less that they were the genesis of the Ashkenazim.<6>

Even the archetype of Israelite-origin is also beginning to be reviewed for some Jewish populations amid newer studies. Previously, the Israelite origin identified in the world's Jewish populations was attributed only to the males who had migrated from the Middle East and then forged the current known communities with "the women from each local population whom they took as wives and converted to Judaism".<7> Research in Ashkenazi Jews has suggested that, in addition to the male founders, significant female founder ancestry might also derive from the Middle East, with about 40% of the current Ashkenazi population descended matrilineally from just four women, or "founder lineages", that were "likely from a Hebrew/Levantine mtDNA pool" originating in the Near East in the first and second centuries CE.<7>

Points in which Jewish groups differ is largely in the source and proportion of genetic contribution from host populations.<8><9> As examples, the Teimanim differ from other Mizrahim, as well as from Ashkenazim, in the proportion of sub-Saharan African gene types which have entered their gene pools.<8> Among Yemenites, the average stands at 35% lineages within the past 3,000 years.<8> Yemenite Jews, as a traditionally Arabic-speaking community of local Yemenite and Israelite ancestries,<9> are included within the findings, though they average a quarter of the frequency of the non-Jewish Yemenite sample.<8> In Ashkenazi Jews, the proportion of male indigenous European genetic admixture amounts to around 0.5% per generation over an estimated 80 generations, and a total male admixture estimate around 12.5%.<3> The only exception to this amongst Jewish communities is in the Beta Israel (Ethiopian Jews); a 1999 genetic study came to the conclusion that "the distinctiveness of the Y-chromosome haplotype distribution of Beta Israel Jews from conventional Jewish populations and their relatively greater similarity in haplotype profile to non-Jewish Ethiopians are consistent with the view that the Beta Israel people descended from ancient inhabitants of Ethiopia who converted to Judaism."<10><11> Another 2001 study did, however, find a possible genetic similarity between 11 Ethiopian Jews and 4 Yemenite Jews from the population samples.<12>

DNA analysis further determined that modern Jews of the priesthood tribe — "Cohanim" — share a common ancestor dating back about 3,000 years.<13> This result is consistent for all Jewish populations around the world.<13> The researchers estimated that the most recent common ancestor of modern Cohanim lived between 1000 BCE (roughly the time of the Biblical Exodus) and 586 BCE, when the Babylonians destroyed the First Temple.<14> They found similar results analyzing DNA from Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews.<14> The scientists estimated the date of the original priest based on genetic mutations, which indicated that the priest lived roughly 106 generations ago, between 2,650 and 3,180 years ago depending whether one counts a generation as 25 or 30 years.<14>

[Indenturedebtor]

160. No most of them wont. But if you don't study then you aren't

I know it's cool and hip here in the States to be something exotic but being Jewish take work. You don't have to belive, you don't have to keep to all the laws, but you do at least have to take part in the culture.

[uppityperson]

176. Where you seem to be saying you aren't a real jew unless you have the DNA

forget what you believe since being Jewish has nothing to do with religion, but with physically inheriting it. Hence, being Jewish is dependent upon your dna. I disagree.

[rockymountaindem]

128. Oh absolutely

The argument about what makes one a Jew is essential to our self-identity (or lack thereof). Check it out here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_is_a_Jew

[robinlynne]

144. You can't eat ice cream? Now that is significant. (not kidding..)

I'm going to sleep. thank you for the interesting conversation.

[Mira]

122. Hearing this triggers my own worst prejudice, getting big time irritated

with people who are small minded, and ignorant, when it is not necessary.
I assume these people are literate and have had exposure to education.
Damn.

[fla nocount]

138. Thanks Mari333 and robinlynne, that was fun.

G'nite all.

[Indenturedebtor]

150. You get used to the antisemitism

My last name is "very Jewish" so I've been blessed with being around people who don't know that I'm Jewish and talk shit about Jews, and those who actively assault me with insults and broadbrush attacks. :shrug: It doesn't matter what manner of different you are... ignorant morons will always hate different people because the only thing that they have to cling to in life is some vague idea about belonging to a "superior people".

Anyways welcome aboard :D If you're serious about getting in touch with your heritage, there are a lot of different and fun ways to go about it. Judaism is a culture, a religion, a civilization, and a people. There are many schools of thought as to what it means to be Jewish... but really the easiest way to approach it is through the religion. In truth, without being a part of a Jewish community there is no Judaism. And truly the easiest way to become part of a Jewish community is through a temple.

For that matter there are many different kinds of temples. The three main branches of Ashkenazi are Reform, Conservative, and Orthodox. Reform is more concerned with maintaining traditions, teaching modern liberal ethics, and the spirit of Jewish religion and culture. Conservative is in the middle. Orthodox is just as it sounds: one attempts to adhere to the teachings and traditions of the Torah and subsequent Rabinnical teachings.

Truly there are a surprising number of atheist Jews... which surprises many non-Jews. But really it's not only a religion to be Jewish. However, Jewish blood does not make you Jewish without being involved in the community. I'm not trying to be snooty or in some way elitist, but if you would like to get in touch with your roots then GET IN TOUCH!

And again, there are many opinions about what it means to be Jewish... but everyone agrees that it is never a passive thing. You don't have to be born to it. My wife in fact is in the process of converting, and we are studying Hebrew together. Judaism is above all else a worldview and what one does and how one thinks day to day.

For me Judaism is about family (in the small and big sense), tradition, philosophy, history, and the sacredness of knowledge, and the pursuit of bettering humanity. These are not uncommon themes in Judaism, but they are the ones that I choose to embrace.

I hope that you choose to become involved, and that you find this involvement to be as fulfilling and enjoyable as I have!

All the best!

[Fleshdancer]

156. WOW!

If this were me, I would have the exact same reaction that you and your siblings had...how cool is it to learn something new about yourself??!? After reading your entire post, I'm now wondering how my in-laws would react. :scared:

Needless to say, your reality makes for an interesting hypothetical exercise for me to bring up during Xmas dinner this year.

I hope the very best for you and your siblings. The initial reaction is disgusting...hopefully it improves.

[FloridaJudy]

162. If I had the money I'd do the DNA thing

I'm 99% sure my Russian side was originally Jewish, and I think there may be some African on the Scots/Irish/English side: my father found an old painting of his grandmother, and either the painter was running low on pink paint, or she was of mixed race. Hard to tell since my genealogical research dead-ended in two Foundling Hospitals on the opposite sides of Europe.

But I always thought of myself as a mutt. I expect most Americans are.

And my ex husband is an atheist Jew. It's a Jewish God he refuses to believe in.

[rucky]

169. Time's top invention of 2008...

https://www.23andme.com/

Maybe you can get parents or siblings to chip-in for it?

[FloridaJudy]

174. Whoa!

I need that! Strong family history of breast cancer, and digestive problems. That's more than just satisfying simple curiosity - that could be live-saving. I think as soon as I find a job, I'm going to buy myself a present.

And it'll be cool to see if my hunches about my ancestry are correct.

[GTurck]

164. How sad...

that discovering some of your family history has caused so many problems. However I would not say that you or any member of your family is "Jewish" simply because of blood. My understanding is that Jewishness is passed down through the mother and that there really is no racial definition of Jewish.What you discovered was the result of cultural and religious isolation in a particular part of the world.
The other point is to understand that you have just discovered that all human beings are related to some degree or another and there really is no one we are not related to.:toast:

[rucky]

168. Just don't tell them that Christ wasn't a Christian

who knows what they'll do.

[mucifer]

172. Back in my college days I used to test people's antisemitism by telling some non-Jews

that back in Europe we made matzah with the blood of Christian babies. (This is anti-semetic rhetoric from the past few hundred years). It freaked me out that a few friends believed me when I said it. I stopped my little experiment pretty quick.

Anyway, this is a very interesting thread. You might want to try to read a little bit about the different kinds of Jewish religous denominations and see if there is a synogogue in your area. Rabbis are very different. They can be awful or have lots of wisdom. I was lucky when I grew up my rabbi was amazing.

[live love laugh]

178. "...they were in shock, and said 'you have JEW blood in you??' ". Now they wont even talk to me."

That's insane.

[Behind the Aegis]

181. Jewish ethnic divisions

Genetic studies of DNA
See also: Y-chromosomal Aaron, Genealogical DNA test, and Matrilineality
Despite the evident diversity displayed by the world's distinct Jewish populations, both culturally and physically, genetic studies have demonstrated most of these to be genetically related to one another, having ultimately originated from a common ancient Israelite population that underwent geographic branching and subsequent independent evolutions.<3>

A study published by the National Academy of Sciences found that "the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population", and suggested that "most Jewish communities have remained relatively isolated from neighboring non-Jewish communities during and after the Diaspora".<3> Researchers expressed surprise at the remarkable genetic uniformity they found among modern Jews, no matter where the diaspora has become dispersed around the world.<3>

Moreover, DNA tests have demonstrated substantially less inter-marriage in most of the various Jewish ethnic divisions over the last 3,000 years than in other populations.<4> The findings lend support to traditional Jewish accounts accrediting their founding to exiled Israelite populations, and counters theories that many or most of the world's Jewish populations were founded by entirely gentile populations that adopted the Jewish faith, as in the notable case of the historic Khazars.<4><5> Although groups such as the Khazars could have been absorbed into modern Jewish populations — in the Khazars' case, absorbed into the Ashkenazim — it is unlikely that they formed a large percentage of the ancestors of modern Ashkenazi Jews, and much less that they were the genesis of the Ashkenazim.<6>

Even the archetype of Israelite-origin is also beginning to be reviewed for some Jewish populations amid newer studies. Previously, the Israelite origin identified in the world's Jewish populations was attributed only to the males who had migrated from the Middle East and then forged the current known communities with "the women from each local population whom they took as wives and converted to Judaism".<7> Research in Ashkenazi Jews has suggested that, in addition to the male founders, significant female founder ancestry might also derive from the Middle East, with about 40% of the current Ashkenazi population descended matrilineally from just four women, or "founder lineages", that were "likely from a Hebrew/Levantine mtDNA pool" originating in the Near East in the first and second centuries CE.<7>

Points in which Jewish groups differ is largely in the source and proportion of genetic contribution from host populations.<8><9> As examples, the Teimanim differ from other Mizrahim, as well as from Ashkenazim, in the proportion of sub-Saharan African gene types which have entered their gene pools.<8> Among Yemenites, the average stands at 35% lineages within the past 3,000 years.<8> Yemenite Jews, as a traditionally Arabic-speaking community of local Yemenite and Israelite ancestries,<9> are included within the findings, though they average a quarter of the frequency of the non-Jewish Yemenite sample.<8> In Ashkenazi Jews, the proportion of male indigenous European genetic admixture amounts to around 0.5% per generation over an estimated 80 generations, and a total male admixture estimate around 12.5%.<3> The only exception to this amongst Jewish communities is in the Beta Israel (Ethiopian Jews); a 1999 genetic study came to the conclusion that "the distinctiveness of the Y-chromosome haplotype distribution of Beta Israel Jews from conventional Jewish populations and their relatively greater similarity in haplotype profile to non-Jewish Ethiopians are consistent with the view that the Beta Israel people descended from ancient inhabitants of Ethiopia who converted to Judaism."<10><11> Another 2001 study did, however, find a possible genetic similarity between 11 Ethiopian Jews and 4 Yemenite Jews from the population samples.<12>

DNA analysis further determined that modern Jews of the priesthood tribe — "Cohanim" — share a common ancestor dating back about 3,000 years.<13> This result is consistent for all Jewish populations around the world.<13> The researchers estimated that the most recent common ancestor of modern Cohanim lived between 1000 BCE (roughly the time of the Biblical Exodus) and 586 BCE, when the Babylonians destroyed the First Temple.<14> They found similar results analyzing DNA from Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews.<14> The scientists estimated the date of the original priest based on genetic mutations, which indicated that the priest lived roughly 106 generations ago, between 2,650 and 3,180 years ago depending whether one counts a generation as 25 or 30 years.<14>

[AntiFascist]

191. Weren't the Cohanim ancient seafaring priests (descended from the brother of Moses)?

I recall a NOVA special that postulated that the Cohanim brought the Arc of the Covenant (in the form of a wooden drum) to South Africa where they interbred, creating the Lemba tribe which still observes many Semitic traditions:

http://www.freemaninstitute.com/Gallery/lemba.htm

[Behind the Aegis]

195. I haven't heard that one.

I'll have to look into it considering my family is also of that branch.

[PassingFair]

183. Sounds just like the plot to "Kingsblood Royal", except he found out he was black...

not Jewish. Your brother should pick up a copy. (Sinclair Lewis)

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51GV8VDR8HL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.jpg

[Mari333]

184. thanks i will pick up a copy myself

this thread is cracking me up..someone said a few posts back
'put 2 jews in a room and get 5 arguments'
and this thread proves him right lol

[Behind the Aegis]

194. Two Jews, three opinions. Learn it, live it, love it! :)

On edit: This describes it best --

Four Rabbis were debating a finer point in the Talmud. Rabbi Goldman was the only one who didn't agree with the findings. They argued and argued for hours. Finally, in desperation, Rabbi Goldman, said; "Lord, please tell us who is correct in this interpretation of this story in the Talmud." A beam of light shone and a voice boomed: "Goldman got it right!" Rabbi Goldman turned to the others and smiled. The lead rabbi of the dissenting trio looked at Rabbi Goldman and said; "Why are you smiling? By my count, the vote is now three to two, with us ahead."

:)