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Idealism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:59 PM
Original message
Republican Senator Admits Opposition to Auto Bill is All About Union Busting
From firedoglake
By: Blue Texan Thursday December 11, 2008 10:27 am

While Mitch McConnell and other Republicans have hinted that their opposition to investment in the Big Three is all about busting the unions, Jim DeMint refreshingly came out and admitted it yesterday on NPR.

Norris: Now, you know the unions are saying this is also a political ploy on the part of the Republicans to try get rid of unions and use the auto industry troubles to do just that.

DeMint: Well, Im not trying to get rid of the unions, but I am saying that they appear to be an antiquated concept in todays economy.

And if that wasn't explicit enough for you...

DeMint: These car companies are in real trouble. And they shouldve been planning to restructure for a long time. But the political aspect of this is most of this is being done to protect unions, uh, its not to protect the workers. And what I want to do is make sure we have jobs for these workers and we have first-class American automobile companies. And were not going to do it with the barnacles of unionism wrapped around their necks.

I'm not saying Jim DeMint is using the credit crisis to take down the unions, but he does appear to be a union-busting asshole.


For those of you who still don't realize why GOP senators are telling Detroit to !@#$ off, maybe you should listen to the entire 4 minute interview with Jim DeMint(R-SC), because it really is all about union-busting. He ramps up the hate around two minutes in, try not to vomit.

My favorite quote from this jackass:

"The taxpayers should not be obligated to prop up these union bosses who have put the American car companies against the wall, with these contracts and threat of strikes over the last several decades that have essentially put them out of business."


Its all those damn workers fault for trying to get pay raises and this crazy thing called "health care." I mean, who are they to demand shit from these helpless executives that are being put in the poor house because of the big, bad union workers? Blaming the victim much, Senator?
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. K & R
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
2. k&r -- what a piece of shit some of these people are. n/t
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Venceremos Donating Member (488 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
3. k&r
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
4. to repukes, contracts with workers don't count and don't matter...
they're made to be broken.
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Idealism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I would never have guessed that the Shock Doctrine would be used to take away worker rights
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #4
91. to repukes, international treaties don't count and don't matter...
Why should they be concerned about a few measley American workers?

1. In December 2001, the United States officially withdrew from the 1972 Antiballistic Missile Treaty, gutting the landmark agreement-the first time in the nuclear era that the US renounced a major arms control accord.

2. 1972 Biological and Toxin Weapons Convention ratified by 144 nations including the United States. In July 2001 the US walked out of a London conference to discuss a 1994 protocol designed to strengthen the Convention by providing for on-site inspections. At Geneva in November 2001, US Undersecretary of State John Bolton stated that "the protocol is dead," at the same time accusing Iraq, Iran, North Korea, Libya, Sudan, and Syria of violating the Convention but offering no specific allegations or supporting evidence.

3. UN Agreement to Curb the International Flow of Illicit Small Arms, July 2001: the US was the only nation to oppose it.

4. April 2001, the US was not re-elected to the UN Human Rights Commission, after years of withholding dues to the UN (including current dues of $244 million)-and after having forced the UN to lower its share of the UN budget from 25 to 22 percent. (In the Human Rights Commission, the US stood virtually alone in opposing resolutions supporting lower-cost access to HIV/AIDS drugs, acknowledging a basic human right to adequate food, and calling for a moratorium on the death penalty.)

5. International Criminal Court (ICC) Treaty, to be set up in The Hague to try political leaders and military personnel charged with war crimes and crimes against humanity. Signed in Rome in July 1998, the Treaty was approved by 120 countries, with 7 opposed (including the US). In October 2001 Great Britain became the 42nd nation to sign. In December 2001 the US Senate again added an amendment to a military appropriations bill that would keep US military personnel from obeying the jurisdiction of the proposed ICC.

6. Land Mine Treaty, banning land mines; signed in Ottawa in December 1997 by 122 nations. The United States refused to sign, along with Russia, China, India, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Vietnam, Egypt, and Turkey. President Clinton rejected the Treaty, claiming that mines were needed to protect South Korea against North Korea's "overwhelming military advantage." He stated that the US would "eventually" comply, in 2006; this was disavowed by President Bush in August 2001.

7. Kyoto Protocol of 1997, for controlling global warming: declared "dead" by President Bush in March 2001. In November 2001, the Bush administration shunned negotiations in Marrakech (Morocco) to revise the accord, mainly by watering it down in a vain attempt to gain US approval.

8. In May 2001, refused to meet with European Union nations to discuss, even at lower levels of government, economic espionage and electronic surveillance of phone calls, e-mail, and faxes (the US "Echelon" program),

9. Refused to participate in Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD)-sponsored talks in Paris, May 2001, on ways to crack down on off-shore and other tax and money-laundering havens.

10. Refused to join 123 nations pledged to ban the use and production of anti-personnel bombs and mines, February 2001

11. September 2001: withdrew from International Conference on Racism, bringing together 163 countries in Durban, South Africa

12. International Plan for Cleaner Energy: G-8 group of industrial nations (US, Canada, Japan, Russia, Germany, France, Italy, UK), July 2001: the US was the only one to oppose it.

13. Enforcing an illegal boycott of Cuba, now being made tighter. In the UN in October 2001, the General Assembly passed a resolution, for the tenth consecutive year, calling for an end to the US embargo, by a vote of 167 to 3 (the US, Israel, and the Marshall Islands in opposition).

14. Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty. Signed by 164 nations and ratified by 89 including France, Great Britain, and Russia; signed by President Clinton in 1996 but rejected by the Senate in 1999. The US is one of 13 nonratifiers among countries that have nuclear weapons or nuclear power programs. In November 2001, the US forced a vote in the UN Committee on Disarmament and Security to demonstrate its opposition to the Test Ban Treaty.


--more--
Mother Earth
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
6. The biggest problem that the repubic party has right now (and for the
last six months to a year) is that they just don't know when the sit down and shut the fuck up. Millions of people are watching this, waiting to see what action they're willing to take (or NOT take) to help out the American workers. THIS IS NOT ABOUT UNION with the people, not at all. And we are watching.

Fools.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
7. I knew that's what they were after all along, but even in bankruptcy, it
doesn't mean the unions will go away! This "Car Czar" worries me more. I keep hearing these same Pubs in the Senate saying they don't think the "Car Czar" has enough power. That just means he apparently doesn't have the power to demand the unions desolve!
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tnlefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
8. Then why do we taxpayers have to foot the bill to move the
Edited on Thu Dec-11-08 01:14 PM by tnlefty
foreign companies in? It's not just repubs who make these deals either. VW is coming to my county and all that came out prior to sealing the deal was that Sens. Alexander and Corker were working really hard to get this deal. Then a little later that local officials and the Gov. were working hard for it, too, but it was so secret that no details could be released to us peons.

A week or so prior to the election is was leaked that VW would have relaxed pollution standards which would result in even more Ozone alert days. The good stuff didn't come out until after the election, around Nov. 18th and 19th and folks around me, even the repugs, are beginning to grumble.

If this link works it's a small list of the incentives given to VW. http://chattanoogan.com/articles/article_139277.asp

edit: add word
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HillbillyBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #8
94. Lest anyone have forgotten, these are the same Patriots that
brought us the Patriot Act, Buy American, Iraq war, torture, the bank failures, the lack of heath care/insurance etc etc.
PATRIOTS MY A__ . Include a good many Dinos in that too.
Arggh
I have known the authoritarian nutwings have wanted to destroy the middle class since
I tried to join PATCO during RunnywayRaygun. I am a vet who served as ATC trainee aboard USS Enterprise and was thrown away for being gay. I got ratted out by a stool pigeon to save his own sorry gay a__.
Arrested for a murder and narcotics charges.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
9. I found that interview refreshing
It shows us who our enemies are and what they want.

Remember...where did our enemies stand re: bank bailout?
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. As has been quoted here. It is ok to bailout workers that shower BEFORE
work, but not those that shower AFTER work.
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Idealism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. Thats one of the better analogies I've heard on the subject
Point is, the party of business looks down on the peons who make them the money. It is a sad thing to realize your country has been indoctrinated to look down on you if you don't wear a white collar to work.
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geomon666 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
10. Unions "appear to be an antiquated concept in todays economy"?
If anything is true it's the exact opposite. Unions are more important now then ever before as it has become painfully clear the corporate executives have no interest in seeing American workers prosper. For them it's all about getting what you can for as little as possible. Fucking disgusting.
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. That idea is very prevalent among HR professionals
and corporate executives. They HATE unions.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Ever since they changed "Personnel" to "HR" those people have been pimps for the CEOs of
the corporations. Personnel used to be a dept that could help the employees, not screw them over.
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hay rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #16
38. The name says it all
"Human Resources" reduces people to their value as a source of labor- just another commodity to be obtained as cheaply as possible.
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FREEWILL56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 07:09 AM
Response to Reply #38
80. You are quite right and I hadn't quite thought of it this way.
Edited on Fri Dec-12-08 07:20 AM by FREEWILL56
It makes me wonder now why they just didn't keep it as personnel. Why the insertion of human, as if they have anything else like animals, insects, or birds to do the work? It's a people peon pool for those damn CEOs and upper management and they don't usually go through 'human resources' now do they?
I don't blame the UAW for taking a stance against pay cuts when management screwed things up and didn't take their pay cuts and all too much we are seeing them still wanting their big bonuses. Bonuses are for those that excel in a good way and any company that is going down the tubes isn't successful. They aren't failing because of the rank and file getting too much, but because of management's greed, bad decisions, and their own wish to be part of the stock market gamble. When all else fails they blame the grunts for their own blunders and as scape goats they are meant to be punished instead of management.
I wonder if the foreign automaker CEOs make as much as the big 3 CEOs? Why don't we hear these pukes demanding they lower the big 3's huge salaries and eliminate their bonuses for upper management?
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FMArouet Donating Member (36 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #10
90. George F. Will made a related argument on the minimum wage.
In the Washington Post on January 4th, 2007, Will published an op-ed piece entitled: "The Right Minimum Wage." Here is the money quote:
But the minimum wage should be the same everywhere: $0. Labor is a commodity; governments make messes when they decree commodities' prices.

I wonder whether Will could spot the irony here: as a key part of their union-busting, labor-crushing agenda, the corporatists and their media apologists like Will seem to display no such reluctance to involve government in decreeing an appropriate level for wages--as long as the goal is to reduce workers' paychecks to approach that beloved labor-as-a-commodity price of $0.

Our country has already tried that for a while. It was called slavery.

Suddenly one understands why the Republican Party has transformed itself into a regional party based in the Old Conefederacy, with some white evangelical coalition partners in the West.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #10
101. Of course, these REPUKE assholes don't realize that the unions only got STRONGER after the
Depression!

I actually see an END to SCREW WORKERS ("right to work") laws EVERYWHERE in the future...
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
11. Just now on CNN they were talking about the "bailout" discussions
amongst congressman. I'm awful remember names so forgive me, but the reporter said that a Repuke said he would like to see the Big 3 bring down the wages of the American workers to be on par with their foreign competitors but he made no mention of making sure these workers have good health care benefits or a pension plan for their futures while lowering their wages.

Ain't that some sh*t?!

This IS about union busting, I have no doubt about it. Repukes want to kill them.

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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
13. WHOAH!
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
14. Hmmm. Who was it, while pimping for the oil companies, that made the horrendous
decisions to keep making huge, gas guzzling cars for YEARS after it was obvious that people were willing, and even anxious, to buy the smaller more economical cars, and all the while gasoline was getting more and more expensive. Was that the unions? I don't THINK so!!!

It is so ironic that the repukes call the Democrats elitist..when to a person, they are all so condescending about the workers in this country. They are all so much more in the pockets of the corporate bigwigs than the Dems. The repukes do not even make a pretense to care about labor...except when they lie thru their teeth during campaigns. Those campaigns are aimed more at divisiveness then actually trying to do something for the blue-collar worker.
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pberq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #14
45. Exactly - management made bad decisions
and now they want to take it out on the workers - how many times have we seen that?

They are making a big mistake being this blatant - this will only increase solidarity.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #45
95. They think, very literally, it is all about management.
When they got their MBAs they were taught all about management. Not about labor. That's why they feel justified in their outrageous salaries, and perks worth the same amount again, and why a car company can install a CEO from Coca Cola (or visa versa) and expect him to know what he's doing - because the worker, and the product, is immaterial. It's all about the managing of resources and expenses.

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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
17. Come on Barack, reach across the aisle...go ahead...
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HillbillyBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #17
111. and slap the piss out the rpukes..or haul them off and let them
work for 0$, where they cannot steal billions to bail out their cronies.
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Caliman73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
18. Yes Jim...
Damn those workers who want to be able to afford those cars they produce. Damn us all!! We should just shut the hell up and go back to the days where people worked 16 hours a day, or until the boss told them they could leave for a dollar a day. We should put kids back to work too. They can crawl into those tiny spaces that adults can't get into. Plus, they don't eat as much so you can pay them less! 7 Day work weeks build character!! Plus we all know that corporations only have the best interests of the workers and customers at heart right? I mean, they would never do anything like dumping toxins into our rivers, or polluting the skies right? They'd never just abandon injured workers who gave everything to make a living producing wealth for the company right? They'd nev... :sarcasm:
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #18
103. The "RACE TO THE BOTTOM". Pure and simple...
GONE is the philosophy of Henry Ford - who decreed that his company pay his workers such a high comparative wage, when asked about it, because he wanted his workers to be able to afford to PURCHASE the stuff they MADE - which would in turn create the environment where MORE stuff would be bought, and hence be able to afford to pay the higher wages!

It is STILL as simple as that = except to the greedy fucking corrupt REPUKES!
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
19. With rethugs, it is always about turning every job into slave labor. n/t
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cartach Donating Member (361 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 03:55 AM
Response to Reply #19
66. I'd go further and
say that the Repugs that are leading the charge come from those southern states that still have a slave labor mentality. It's time that the unions fought back and I don't mean by negotiating. They will have to go back to using the roughhouse tactics that won them a foothold in the first place. I'll leave that to your imagination but when all else fails you resort to drastic measures. I've also wondered for quite a while why more people have'nt been discussing the fact that most of the Repugs who are against the bailout come from states that have a vested interest in breaking the automakers union and/or destroying the Big Three. It further protects the status quo in those states and promotes future auto industry growth on their home turf. It's obvious that by rejecting the bailout they think they can hasten the downfall of the Big Three, eliminate or greatly reduce Detroit's status as a player and promote growth in their own state. But this may well be the trigger that will bring on the onset of a full fledged depression and it shows their typical narrow mindedness and mean spiritedness i.e., the rest of the country can go to hell! . I don't know what Obama should say to them later today but I hope he really comes out swinging.
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tomreedtoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 06:11 AM
Response to Reply #66
75. Unions don't have the guts to fight back.
As I have said so many times before, it's been a long time since River Rouge.

Do any of you UAW guys know what River Rouge even means? Without looking it up in a book or asking anyone?

I didn't think so.

When you did find out about it, did it make your blood run cold and force you to make a run for the bathroom?

I guessed as much.
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Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
21. Of course it's about Union Busting....
That has been their plan since at least the Reagan Administration and his treatment of PATCO. It's all about cheaper labor and more for the Robber Barons.



To my Dear Republican Senators....

F. U.

Love & Prayers,


}( :grr: :nuke: :thumbsdown:
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boomerbust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
22. These mother fuckers
Are calling out the American worker. I really dont beleive they know exactly what kind of shit they are going to stir up. I say bring it on you chickenhawk cowards.
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aldo Donating Member (297 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
23. Of course, they're unAmerican, anti-patriots who hate the American middle class way of life
How can they feel superior if they don't see everyone else eating dirt?


Republicanists = economic terrorists. They hate the American way of life. They hate the middle class.
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Lifetimedem Donating Member (652 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
24. K&R
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Idealism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
25. Jim DeMint (Crook-SC) is currently on MSNBC shittin on the unions (again)
Edited on Thu Dec-11-08 02:53 PM by halo experiment
WOW listen to this exchage on MSNBC:

DeMint: "The unions are pulling the strings of the Democrats"


Newsanchor: "Senator a lot of people think you are doing whats best for foreign automakers, what do you say to that?"

DeMint: "I want Detroit to suceed"

Newsanchor: "People say they wouldn't buy a car from a bankrupt company, so why do you want the Big Three to go into Chapter 11?"

DeMint: "They aren't going to buy a car now from an essentially bankrupt company now anyways"


Really, people aren't buying cars because the company is teetering on bankruptcy? It has NOTHING to do with the fact that 1.2 million people have lost their jobs this year, 1/10 people are in default on their mortgage, or that people are worried about job security. Not that at all.

Seriously, go fuck yourself Senator.
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 04:04 AM
Response to Reply #25
67. he got lots of air time on NPR, uncontested, yesterday...NPR drank the kool aid
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GrantDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
26. This is just one reason why the GOP will be in the wilderness for quite some time
They just can't help themselves from demonizing working men and women. They obviously have not learned.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #26
58. Loyalty to domestic brands is quite high in the South
I am sure that many of his constituents won't buy a Hyundai or a Mercedes "just because it is made in their home state".
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
27. Well, we know where their real loyalties lie.
It's not about being patriotic. It's about making the rich, richer.
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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
28. The management signed the contracts
Edited on Thu Dec-11-08 03:20 PM by Turbineguy
figuring that the future costs would be paid for by????? Or perhaps they figured bankruptcy was the way out anyway.

Instead of putting aside money to pay costs on a current basis they paid themselves fat bonuses.

OK, management is under pressure to book profits and pay dividends. They did so by essentially falsifying the books by not figuring in real costs.

By making "fake" profits they removed the need to change.

Then along come the Republicans and say "Go ahead, break your promises (we do)!"

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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
29. Of course this about Union busting. We're in a CLASS WAR folks.
Guess who is losing? :grr:
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #29
50. Ask me again in about three months
Teamsters local #495 checking in here. I really am not too sure who is winning yet but there will be hell to pay if we some of us find out otherwise :shrug:



Btw, i think the whole big three auto thing is just some drummed up drama that is just going to blow over probably more sooner than later
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #29
96. Not everywhere, at least.
Just heard that a local meat packing plant has finally unionized - plant opened in '92, and they've been trying for years.

Let's see - 200+ meatpakers vs 500,000 autoworkers.

One step forward and a 3 mile jog back.
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
30. As always, I invite everyone to post what they know/feel about DeMint ...
... on the Truthiness Encyclopedia (http://www.wikiality.com/Jim_DeMint )

Please register (it's free) and help make the page the go-to place for information on this coward.

Thank you in advance!

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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
31. No surprise here...GOP mantra, work 3 jobs; no protection; ...
work till you die enriching the people who don't work that sit at the top and investors; middle lower classes pay taxes while the wealthy get breaks; don't complain, your lucky to have a job.

Anyone that is not exceptionally wealthy and votes GOP is insane, they vote against their own interests, the GOP want to see you work, die and never complain about it along the way.
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sasquatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
32. Muerte al Sur!
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
33. I had to shut this off when I heard it yeaterday
He couldn't have been more plain that his problem was that the Big 3 still had union workers.

:puke:

Screw these people. We all need to unionize. They aren't even PRETENDING to protect us.
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electricD Donating Member (93 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
34. ....
If I've said this once, I've said it a million times. The American Worker will NOT do anything until we've got NOTHING left to lose. As a Union organizer I've seen it TOO many times. You listen to these workers and they bitch, gripe and complain about how they're getting screwed by the company they work for and how low their pay is and how sucky their benifits are, if any. And you tell them, there's a better way. You tell them, we ALL need to stand up and tell the employers we're NOT going to take this "straw boss", slave owner/slave crap any longer. Time and time again I've gotten so frustrated because NONE or an extreme few want a change for the better. MOST are either scared or very gullible in believing what their employers tell them about us union people.

I remember talking to one guy on a job that told me that he was being screwed by his company that he'd been employed by for over 3 years. I told him that he could do something about it, told him there is a better life out there, told him I would help him navigate his way through. He told me, very simply, "Don't get me wrong, I like this company, they're just screwing me. I bluntly told him to "shut up your whining about it then because it simply sounds like you like being fucked."

If the republicans do this to the auto-workers, just like Reagan did to PATCO, every, and I DO MEAN EVERY MOTHER FUCKER that's a member of organized labor better rush the gates and start kicking some ass. Because the ONLY way they're going to listen to us and even acknowledg us is to completely get in their faces and tell them either you treat us like humans and give us what we deserve or we WILL MAKE SURE THAT YOU AND YOUR LIKE WILL NEVER, NEVER, NEVER!!! run for another political office or recieve a CEO or position of power AGAIN!!!

I'm SICK AND TIRED of being SICK AND TIRED!!! I'm tired of being secondclassed. I'm TIRED of being told I make too much money. I'm tired of scraping by and I'm tired being lied about.

So, what say you?!?!
fraternally
electricD
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electricD Donating Member (93 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Oh yeah
L.U. 474 checking in. Memphis, TN
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billybob537 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Pipefitters 537 Boston
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Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. need to lay some pipes up the side of Republicans Senators.
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FREEWILL56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #36
85. Now defunct UE Local 610 checking in too.
Edited on Fri Dec-12-08 08:27 AM by FREEWILL56
Victim of reagan era. We said no to pay cuts too as we knew we weren't going to have a job in the near future anyway. We also voted out a few of our higher up representatives that sold us out and there was some of the same mentality that we're seeing today in the blaming of the employees. One union leader was going to retire with a pension too with our funds if he'd have stayed in office a bit longer. He sold us out and he went out faster than we did, we saw to that. It was simply designed to bust up the union so they could reap bigger profits than they already were. I had good inside info that the company had profits that were 700% ABOVE ALL COSTS and they could've reaped from the natural gas that they found and drilled wells for for free heat and more profits if they sold some of it. It's now a mini shopping center with maybe 100 low paying non-union jobs as opposed to the 3000 union jobs and that's at just one of the plants at its peak.
BTW, I was a union steward and served picket duty on a 6 month strike just a few years prior to their uinion busting by shutting down the plants. That they did with the ray gun's blessings. A few years later after the great shutdown they reopened another new plant just a few miles away from the one that is now a shopping center, but they placed mainly engineers there so there's no production facilities. The engineeres were the only ones that weren't in a union and these weren't the same ones they hired for the new plant years later. One interesting note on all of this was that the many management personnel they shipped south were stranded down there as the company closed those facilities too.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #34
41. welcome to the site!
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #34
47. Welcome to DU
I hope you stay around for a long time.
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eyepaddle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #34
92. MAPE checking in.
I know exactly what you are talking about. At my last job (as a hazardous waste technician we all just got slammed all summer long with usually about 15-25 hours of ovetime per week (once again dealing with hazardous waste) and as soon as things slowed down for the winter and everybody could just work a regular 40, they'd lay enough of us off so that the people left behind would still put in 55 hours a week. The benefits weren't that great (and I was seasonal, so I didn't get any at all). What was the starting wage for this sweet, sweet deal? $10.25/hour. Oh yeah, pretty much everybody there was a licensed commercial driver too.

I'd point out that the teamsters would help us organize in a heartbeat and that we'd at least stop getting steamrolled day after day and it just went nowhere.

ON a brighter Union note: I hear the Smithfield Farms (hog slaughtering) in NC just voted to unionize. That is friggin' HUGE.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
37. It's being done "to protect the unions and not the people"?
Uh.... Does DeMint KNOW what a union is?
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Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. No he doesn't he is a privileged Republican ASSHOLE.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #39
44. Also, he's a SOUTHERN Republican asshole
I don't think he realizes the voting power of all those union-working northerners.

I hope he realizes that the northern states GIVE BACK more to the economy in terms of taxpayer dollars spent.

Most Republican states TAKE more revenue than they produce.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
42. the GOP is killing off any remaining cred they had with the
blue-collar, small town america, 'values voters' they claim to stand up for...Especially since it wasn't two months ago when 'joe the plumber' was their little toady mascot
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Malidictus Maximus Donating Member (326 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
43. When the banks wanted bailouts
the Republicans were saying "we must respect the contracts made by the (fuck-up) CEO's, after all a contract is sacrosanct". But when it comes to a chance to screw the unions it's a;; "the industry needs to get out of these extortionate contracts.

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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #43
104. THANK YOU! I keep forgetting to post that "small" fact about the REPUKES!
Every fucking time...they do this...every fucking time...
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
46. I say we should email this a-h. nt
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BlueJac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
48. Fuck them all then...........
either we save the workers and their union pay or we let it all go.......why should we pay for them to get fucked anyway.

I will pay to fuck the Republican Senators in a heart beat. Where do I send the check, I want Mitch first. Fucking knuckle dragging idiots.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #48
105. Don't forget to includ our "illustrious" john ensign from Nevada...
He, along with mcconnel and shelby - who come from states where they subsidize the FOREIGN auto companies to the tune of at least a COUPLE BILLION when you add up all the millions in tax breaks, land giveaways, and bribes to the companies to come to their locals int he first place!
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
49. get these rat bastards out of our lives.....
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
51. Yeah, it's those union bosses taking home 15 or 20 million a year.
gimme a fuckin break.
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WoodyM Donating Member (127 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
52. When Jim DeMint was a member
of the SC Legislature, he represented a district that was very heavy with textiles. At the time, the textile industry was moving overseas to places with cheap labor costs and no regulation. When running for the US Senate, in the primary, he said in a debate, We should stop whining about job losses. This in a discussion of the textile industry.
In an interview by a TV reporter with an audience member at the debate a man who worked in a textile mill said he did not like what DeMint said about job losses but he was against abortion so he would vote for him. This mans job is now gone with the rest of the textile industry.
My fellow citizens here is SC constantly amaze how they continue to vote against their own best interest.
DeMint is also a proponent and pusher of the so-called Fair Tax.

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tired of the right Donating Member (66 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
53. The GOP with the help of free trade Democrats
have been heavily involved in union busting since at least the Reagan years. It really is about cheap labor more than anything else. As long as the large corporations control our government the working man is effectively screwed. My household income has been cut in half during the Bush years. They kept one promise. They cut my taxes. Because I no longer make enough money to pay very much in taxes. But of course I am still expected to be the good little consumer and spend what little I have left to keep these large conglomerates in business. Can you say 'depression.' It is hard to spend what you no longer make.
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RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
54. The unions work in the freest of free markets, the labor market. If the labor provided by UAW
wasn't valuable enough, they would be replaced. When they formed the union the big three would have said go have your union we'll just hire people off the street to replace you. The companies know that can't be done and negotiate with the workers in the form of their union.

There is nothing antiquated about a free market for labor.

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BlueJac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
55. These fools know fucking nothing.............
If people do not make enough money to buy things then what the fuck do we do................idiots they are. Just wait it out we won the election, don't give in on anything. Reid will fold like a cheap tent like he always has, along with Pelosi. We are fucked and will never turn this country around. It is starting to look like Argentina around here!!!! Neo-Con heaven.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
56. I wrote to my Senators earlier today
I told them to stand with the American worker and do not allow the republicans to use this crisis to bust the unions. I urge everyone to flood their Senators offices with how you feel about the "restructuring" of the Big-3.
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dugaresa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
57. Amazing Republican math...slash wages and then expect people to buy shit
never amazes me how "smart" these folks are.

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bagimin Donating Member (945 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
59. F'ing union busting scumbags.
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
60. Gas cars are antiquated
"Free market" capitalism is antiquated. CEO gods are the senile relics of another era. To say Demint is a Jurassic holdover out of place is putting it charitably.

The first reactions of a troubled capitalist system when things go wrong because of their out of control insane criminality is to throw people out of homes and jobs and terrorize and divide the populace immediately so no one will gang up on the weakness of the gods. Nothing modern about that. It is the perennial response of greed and power to threat.

Eventually the Postal Unions will receive the same treatment and we certainly have not struck or menaced the Grand Mismanagement with anything except law and fairness and beating their incompetent attempts at bad faith negotiations with mediation. The brave new world Demint is referring to in our case will be a fractured and privatized postal dis-Service staffed by abused low paid non-union workers for a truly mangled operation NO private corporation(trust me) is prepared to run well or at any profit.

But to get back to technology(as with Global Warming) the real issue of modernity after the disgusting put down of debased Mammon gets us back to first base again, the future is electric cars and digitalized communications. Those are problems enough for workers to have to cope with in the inevitable progress of things. Being dogged by carrion Tyrannosaurus Demint during every opportune crisis to harvest our blood is an old added attraction of the good old past.
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muntrv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
61. Tryin' to re-fight the civil war, Jimbo?
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cartach Donating Member (361 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 04:07 AM
Response to Reply #61
68. Sounds like a good idea.
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provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #61
129. No kidding. I'd give them best two out of three.
Edited on Sat Dec-13-08 12:47 AM by provis99
"The South may rise again, but the North will kick its ass again"

Union busting. Just another reason why I'm an ex-Southerner.
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Raschel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
62. Hey A-hole DeMint, the antiquated concept is your pension and healthcare.
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Wink Donating Member (497 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 12:38 AM
Response to Original message
63. IBEW Local 5 checking in
Of course it's about killing the unions. I can't figure out what is with southerners...they refuse to organize and make a decent buck. All the foreign cars are being made down there for $14 an hour and they still charge more than Union made domestic models. Who's making the extra money? CEO's and other executives. But you southerners just keep making enough to buy your double-wides and ammo and then bitch about welfare after we send you all the tax revenue our union jobs make.
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BobTheSubgenius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #63
130. I was in the IBEW for over a decade.
Got EXTREMELY good representation from Local 213. I have nothing but good things to say about the value we received for our $50 a month.

The union-busting climate of today makes me sick...and I mean that literally. I feel bad, physically, over this.
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NBachers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
64. So how long before Pelosi and Reid lay down, spread
Edited on Fri Dec-12-08 01:05 AM by NBachers
their legs, and let these pigs gang bang them and fuck the rest of us?

Again?
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BREMPRO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 02:14 AM
Response to Original message
65. these Repukes are so fukin cynical, selfish, and stupid.
It's the legacy costs, not the current labor costs that are handicapping the Big3 and they know it. They don't give a shit about anything but their stupid ideology and breaking unions, even if it sends us into a depression. The pukes leading the charge are in states with auto plants and are only interested in giving their state a benefit and kicking Michigan in the teeth for not supporting PUKES. I HATE THESE F/N PUKES
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mtnester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 04:14 AM
Response to Original message
69. They sold the $73 lie
and most of American bought it

Union busting at its finest...and with a complicit MSM, it was a wet dream for them
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 04:16 AM
Response to Original message
70. K&R n/t
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 04:22 AM
Response to Original message
71. "appear to be an antiquated concept in todays economy."
AND...look at where the EXPERTS on the economy like Jim DeMint and Mitch McConnell have gotten us as of today.

We need to quit exporting jobs and start exporting republican crooks and liars like Corker and DeMint.
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 05:24 AM
Response to Original message
72. Go fuck yourself DeMint!! nt
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 05:27 AM
Response to Original message
73. What about all the American families the GOP is going to "Bust"
What will all those people who lose their jobs tell their little kids?
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 05:35 AM
Response to Original message
74. So called "free" market fundamentalists
and union busters from impoverished and corrupt Southern states are the anachronisms. Better left to the dust bin of the 19th and 20th Centuries- babbling in tongues- which is exactly where their economic (and social ideology agenda) is aimed at us.
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NoFederales Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #74
86. Exactly! RW union-hate is spewing all about in SW MO, although even the
few progressives I know deny it. Why is looking figuratively down the economic barrel that is going to shoot you so easy to deny? Awwwwwwww, that's not a "real" gun, "they" wouldn't really pull the trigger........ Accountability--who the fuck is that for? it's not Wall Street, not the big 3, not congress, so whose left to get their nuts busted, hmmmmmmm.

Where's that hope, again?

NoFederales
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #86
89. "Where's that hope, again?"
Here:

Former Nasdaq chairman Madoff on $75b securities fraud charge

http://business.smh.com.au/business/former-nasdaq-chair...

Here:

Renewable Businesses Bring the Green to Portland

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122886465787792907.html...

and here:

America's next top model

http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/peter-hartcher/ameri...

For starters-

There's so much more.


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NoFederales Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #89
110. The culture of corruption practioners in Congress, the lobbyists,
the corporate "syndicate", the Wall Street misanthropes, and others comprise the top of my list for HOPE, for Change You Can Believe In. No, it won't happen overnight, but I expect a steady drum-roll of Justice from here on out.

Hope for Change, in dealing from positions of strength, that completely encompass the "We, the People" concepts and ideals--I'm watching the big picture screen while working in the trenchs, and hope that I'm not seeing the "entertainment-as-usual" fodder.

Check out: ShowMeTheEnergy.com for a good Missouri project under development. Thanks for your links.

NoFederales
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 06:15 AM
Response to Original message
76. Fucking Hoovers. At least they've come out and made themselves irrelevant
Edited on Fri Dec-12-08 06:16 AM by HamdenRice
They've got about 40 days and then they and their Hooverville asses are history.
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Lost River Ledger Donating Member (151 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 06:31 AM
Response to Original message
77. And where is their offer........
to cut their wages and benefits and bring them in line with the median income of say...... Mississippi?
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 06:31 AM
Response to Original message
78. The Senate republicans just sealed bu$h's fate of a total failure
The failed world economy now rest squarely on the shoulders of bu$h for eternity.

Let it be marked in time that this was the seal on the fate of the depression that is about to descend upon this nation and that the Republicans are totally to blame for it happening.
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DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 06:36 AM
Response to Original message
79. Dimwitt is another cookie from the same cookie-cutter of critical thinking as GWBu$h.
Dimwitt ain't too bright which is what endears his kind (like Sarah Palin) to the rubes of this state (South Carolina). Dimwitt, his supporters, and the state GOP have totally forgotten that the I-85 automotive corridor, including Clemson's ultra high-tech ICAR Center in Greenville, is supposed to be the savior of the upstate's failed textile economy and that said high-tech automotive support industry is more dependent on the Big Three than it is on the union-busters' darlings like BMW (located on I-85 in Greer, SC).


Michelin-on-Main in Greenville, SC
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 07:14 AM
Response to Original message
81. against unions, Social Security and Medicare
let's have that debate. Dems are for those things, GOP is against. Let the American people decide who they'll go with.
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daggahead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 07:35 AM
Response to Original message
82. This is going to be bad for the whole country.
Apparently the republicans, and a few democrats don't care. Maybe they've gotten their cut of the $700 billion and they want to make sure the banks keep the tax payers' money flowing to them.




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RT_Fanatic Donating Member (162 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
83. "Barnacles"?
What a freakin' TOOL! :puke:
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coach3415 Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
84. Only Governance Left
The unions are really the only form of true governance or oversight left in corporations. The shareholders only care about double-digit returns, and management only cares about end-of-year bonus payments. If you want to leave your former union-represented corporations to the hands of greedy CEO's, go for it. There needs to be a second industrial revolution as history certainly has repeated itself. Why would CEO's of corporations earn millions upon millions of dollars when their corporation has declining returns? Why would CEO's drop employee pension plans, increase benefit costs, and hire a "fresh crop" of new blood after laying off older employees? Because it is all about the bottom line.
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Upfront Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
87. My Granddad told me
Never, ever, vote for a Republican! I haven't and never will. It should be now clear to all as to why.
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gollygee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
88. Sadly, he will win votes from GOPers over that
Most Republicans I know hate unions. They think everybody except them and corporate execs should be making at the maximum $10/hour or something.
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lib2DaBone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
93. Republicans don't realize what they owe to Unions.....
If it wasn't for Unions.. we wouldn't have an 8 hour work day. There would be no such thing as "Holidays" and we would still be breathing asbestos dust and living in company housing.

Pansy-ass wimpy-lazy Republicans are the biggest cry babies in the world. They have never done a days work in their entire fat-bottomed life.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #93
107. Umm - we haven't had an "eight hour day" for a long time now - that vanished long ago...
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codjh9 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
97. I've never been in a union, but I hate the fuckers who hate unions!!! :^)
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lenegal Donating Member (258 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
98. Filthy Bastards, these Repukes
makes me ill.
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LincolnRepublican Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
99. Abraham Lincoln Was A Strong Advocate For Collective Bargaining
It appears the right wing neofascist pigs of the current Republican party have more in common with Adolph Hitler than Abraham Lincoln. I hate these fuckers with a passion.
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PVnRT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
100. Mitch McConnell is a piece of shit
Just wanted to throw that out there. Kentuckians really need to kick out Bunning in two years, at least.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
102. Nope, it's all about how we make shitty cars and they want to let the Transplants take over
at least DU thinks we make nothing but shitty cars? I keep getting told that by the cheap labor pretenders.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #102
115. While there are some quality issues with many domestic cars ...
... NONE of those quality/reliability issues can be ascribed to labor. None. The outsourcing of CHEAPENED and fundamentally flawed engineering designs (Chrysler interference engine, Mitsubishi overdrive transmission, etc.) and the use of grossly substandard materials accounts for over 90% of the reliability problems. It's fucking INSANE that people can't analyze the simplest of quality and reliability issues and immediately see this.
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Piewhacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
106. OK, if McConnell wants some "busting" done lets start with him.
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
108. So unions are "antiquated" AND we don't need universal healthcare.
Edited on Fri Dec-12-08 10:16 AM by Marr
Of course, workers have a much better chance of getting healthcare from their employers if they have collective bargaining power, and he knows that.

It always boils down to class warfare with these people. They want a two-tiered society of absolute poverty and extreme wealth.
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newtothegame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
109. Politically, I can't say I blame them...
It's not like they're going to lose any votes. It'll reinsure their base, and unions don't vote Republican anyways.
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mnhtnbb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
112. Does anybody know any Republicans who care about anything other than money and making
Edited on Fri Dec-12-08 11:51 AM by mnhtnbb
other people do things their way?

They are greedy, selfish, self-interested a$$holes.
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EnviroBat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
113. I've been saying for year that there should be an organized labor
party in the US. A party of the workers, by the workers, and for the workers. A party powerful enough to protect everyone of us that works for a living.
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
114. KamaAina: Well, I'm not trying to get rid of the repukes,
but I am saying that they appear to be an antiquated concept in todays society. :P
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
116. Who elected Mr. DeMented? He sounds like the reincarnation of Helms, or something
And how come it was OK for the Republicans to fund the bank bailout, without demanding that the bankers do without their huge bonuses? (And I'm one who thinks that *some* sort of intervention was needed, but not without much tougher conditions.) Banks are sacred, but industry isn't? I shouldn't be surprised; it's been just the same in the UK over the years, and we're just beginning to realize how disastrous these pro-Big Money, anti-industry, policies have been for us.
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lenegal Donating Member (258 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
117. Reason number 10,000 of why I hate Republicans
nt
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WoodyM Donating Member (127 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
118. It has been said that the senators from the south
are protecting those foreign auto companies in their states. That may have an element of truth but the Republican Party from all over the United States, the party of big business and the rich, are attempting to reach their ultimate goal. That is to break the unions. If they can push the American auto industry under they think that will break the union movement. There will be thousands and thousands of working people without a paycheck that will be willing to take anything to survive, and as been said, be thankful for it. The Republican wet dream comes true.
While foreign auto companies have manufacturing facilities here in the US, they are still shipping them here. The profit margin is greater on those that are shipped here than the ones that they make in the US. Their costs are less at home. There are ports on the west coast that have run of space to store them, as they are not selling either. With so much of the population out work because of the closing of the US auto makers and the results spreading throughout the nation there will very few autos sold in the US or the rest of the world. Those foreign makers will move their production back home for less cost. Those plants in the south will be gone.
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Idealism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #118
119. Not to mention the supply chains that need Detroit to stay alive
Foreign factories aren't as numerous as the Big Three plants are, and the suppliers are hanging on by a thread already. If the suppliers would lose half their business, they would probably go under as well, further hurting the entire auto industry in this country. Why do you think Toyota and Honda were urging Congress to help the domestic auto industry? They know they need those suppliers to keep their plants in business here too.
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mayahbird Donating Member (28 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
120. An email from Michael Moore
Senate to Middle Class: Drop Dead

Friday, December 12th, 2008

Friends,

They could have given the loan on the condition that the automakers start building only cars and mass transit that reduce our dependency on oil.

They could have given the loan on the condition that the automakers build cars that reduce global warming.

They could have given the loan on the condition that the automakers withdraw their many lawsuits against state governments in their attempts to not comply with our environmental laws.

They could have given the loan on the condition that the management team which drove these once-great manufacturers into the ground resign and be replaced with a team who understands the transportation needs of the 21st century.

Yes, they could have given the loan for any of these reasons because, in the end, to lose our manufacturing infrastructure and throw 3 million people out of work would be a catastrophe.

But instead, the Senate said, we'll give you the loan only if the factory workers take a $20 an hour cut in wages, pension and health care. That's right. After giving BILLIONS to Wall Street hucksters and criminal investment bankers -- billions with no strings attached and, as we have since learned, no oversight whatsoever -- the Senate decided it is more important to break a union, more important to throw middle class wage earners into the ranks of the working poor than to prevent the total collapse of industrial America.

We have a little more than a month to go of this madness. As I sit here in Michigan today, tens of thousands of hard working, honest, decent Americans do not believe they can make it to January 20th. The malaise here is astounding. Why must they suffer because of the mistakes of every CEO from Roger Smith to Rick Wagoner? Make management and the boards of directors and the shareholders pay for this.

Of course that is heresy to the 31 Republicans who decided to blame the poor, miserable autoworkers for this mess. And our wonderful media complied with their spin on the morning news shows: "UAW Refuses to Give Concessions Killing Auto Bailout Bill." In fact the UAW has given concession after concession, reduced their benefits, agreed to get rid of the Jobs Bank and agreed to make it harder for their retirees to live from week to week. Yes! That's what we need to do! It's the Jobs Bank and the old people who have led the nation to economic ruin!

But even doing all that wasn't enough to satisfy the bastard Republicans. These Senate vampires wanted blood. Blue collar blood. You see, they weren't opposed to the bailout because they believed in the free market or capitalism. No, they were opposed to the bailout because they're opposed to workers making a decent wage. In their rage, they were driven to destroy the backbone of this country, not because the UAW hadn't given back enough, but because the UAW hadn't given up.

It appears that the sitting President has been looking for a way to end his reign by one magnanimous act, just like a warlord on his feast day. He will put his finger in the dyke, and the fragile mess of an auto industry will eke through the next few months.

That will give the Senate enough time to demand that the bankers and investment sharks who've already swiped nearly half of the $700 billion gift a chance to make the offer of cutting their pay.

Fat chance.

Yours,
Michael Moore
MMFlint@aol.com
MichaelMoore.com
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
121. The hell you say.
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cosmicone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
122. I know I'll get flamed for typing this ....
Edited on Fri Dec-12-08 05:47 PM by cosmicone
but Jim DeMint is partly right.

Unions are absolutely essential to make sure that there is safety in workplace, working conditions are healthy and that employees are not discriminated against.

However, when unions start negotiating wages and benefits that are beyond what the enterprise can reasonably afford in order to maintain viability, the unions go too far. Wages are determined by the marketplace and skill-level of the tasks. There is no reason to pay person X a higher wage than person Y of the same abilities and qualification just because person X belongs to a union.

High union wages increase product cost to the consumer and either a) people who don't belong to the union end up paying more for the products or b) the business becomes unprofitable and has to be shut down.

Lastly, the unions have utter despise for the investors and stockholders who make the enterprise exist in the first place. Without someone risking their money, there would be no jobs. However, the union people don't seem to want to reward those who took the risk to create the jobs.

Unless an enterprise is a win-win-win for the customers, workers and investors, it is doomed to fail. All three must share the rewards and risks.

On edit: You may call me a) a republican, b) a neocon, c) a retard, d) a libertarian, e) hater of the American worker, f) not belonging on democratic underground, g) an outsourcing maniac or h) a tool. You may save keystrokes just by giving lettered responses!
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Idealism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #122
125. You have bought into the bullshit about union workers being over-paid etc
Their pay is comparable to North American plants for foreign companies, this isn't about unions bringing down the big three. This is about the GOP wanting to erode workers rights for people who helped Democrats win downticket races and the presidency.

You think people SHOULD get paid $10 an hour to do something no one else getting paid $10/hour could do? Could my secretary (who makes $10 an hour) assemble a fucking car? No. Why should their wages be comparable to people who couldn't do their job and aren't skilled workers?

The Republicans and corporatists want you to work for as little as they can get away with paying you, because their profits will go up even more than they already have. Sad that you believe their excuse for this.
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RoccoR5955 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
123. Another reason to NEVER EVER vote for ANY Republican again!
These bass turds only want to protect their business buddies, and not WE THE PEOPLE. No vote for them EVER in my lifetime!
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humbled_opinion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
124. The crap they right winger spew is sickening...
A guy where I work said this "The Unions Give millions of dollars to Democrats campaigns and none to Republicans. How is it fair that tax dollars go to bail out the Auto Industry which in effect benefits the Union so they can fund the Democrats campaigns."

This ass went further saying that If Obama allows the Union lobbyists to influence hime to bail out the auto company's then in effect it was a quid pro quo for getting him elected...

I almost threw up when he said this crap.
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Idealism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #124
126. Heres a way to shut that freeper up
Automakers fail to cash in on big GOP donations

By standing in the way of an auto industry bailout, GOP senators appear to have bitten the hand that fed them.

Over the last decade, General Motors has given $1.50 to Republican candidates for every $1 it has given to Democrats. That same pattern has been followed by Chrysler and Ford, which year after year have favored the right side of the aisle, sometimes by more than a 3-to-1 ratio in dollar terms.

Since 1990, the auto industry as a whole -- including suppliers, dealers and manufacturers -- has cut $100 million in checks to Republicans, compared with just $34 million to Democrats.

On Thursday night, the carmakers discovered just how little loyalty that investment strategy had bought them.


Theres about two pages worth of writting by the LA Times there, worth the read.
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humbled_opinion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #126
133. LOL
That won't work, he distinguishes between corporate and Union. He says the CORP funding is fine since both parties benefit from it and then goes into some rant about campaign financing in general.

Anyway He has a real problem with the Unions who don't give a penny to Pubbies. LOL...

I even said don't you realize that the Unions are the employees? THE PEOPLE?

So lost they are in their grandeur.
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Idealism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #133
134. Ok then, lets compare
Angry UAW members lash out at Southern senators

Union officials also accused the senators of retaliating for the UAW's overwhelming support of Democratic candidates in federal races. The union gave $1.9 million to Democrats but only $11,500 to Republicans in the 2008 election cycle.


So GM in the past decade $100 million to GOP

UAW this year to Democrats $1.9 million

Hmm...
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DissedByBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
127. I'm at the end of caring anymore
Anything but Chapter 11 to me now is wrong. Let the execs be under a bankruptcy judge who gets to reject all their fat cat salaries, perks and waste such as private jets, line-by-line.
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Peggy Day Donating Member (859 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
128. Couldn't all the unions show some solidarity somehow?
Edited on Fri Dec-12-08 10:47 PM by Peggy Day
I'm in the SEIU, and I know there are more unions out there that must be outraged at the Republican attempt to bust unions.

Just found this info on unions over 100,000
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104634.html
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Vroomfondel Donating Member (74 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 03:08 AM
Response to Original message
131. Have a great weekend......brought to you by organised labor.
Unregulated capitalism and run-amok multinationals are a one-two punch that have nearly destroyed this country. Organised labor and education of our young people are among the very few things that will save us.

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LaPera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 03:33 AM
Response to Original message
132. Geeezzz, fucking republicans...
Edited on Sat Dec-13-08 03:41 AM by LaPera
They never stop, they hate us, workers, peasants as they see us....We're only meant to work our lives away for their gain while stealing our tax dollars....That's only meant for them, (as they see it)!

Workers UNIONS - Our only hope to save our country & our way of life!!
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