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US gun company Constitution Arms says its guns for elderly will be subsidised

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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 03:58 AM
Original message
US gun company Constitution Arms says its guns for elderly will be subsidised
Source: The Australian

A GUN company will market a pistol to elderly Americans that will be subsidised by the government in the same way as a wheelchair or walking frame. The company, Constitution Arms, claims its gun, called a Palm Pistol, has won approval as a medical device for people with arthritis or other disabling conditions who have trouble squeezing the trigger on a normal firearm.

Under the deal, seniors who buy the $US300 ($460) 9mm handgun will be reimbursed by the federal government in the US, magazine New Scientist reports.

Matthew Carmel, president of Constitution Arms in Maplewood, New Jersey, said the gun was "something that they need to assist them in daily living".

"The justification for this would be no more or less for a (walking aid) or wheelchair, or any number of things that are medical devices," Mr Carmel told the magazine.

Read more: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,2476...
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izzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 04:21 AM
Response to Original message
1. Sounds like a deal for someone to dip into tax payers money
Any one knew if a brother-in-law owns the gun Co.?
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 04:32 AM
Response to Original message
2. My read: scamming company
FDA claims that no such determination has been made. This is a company that would be trying to get folks to buy their gun - marketing.

Which agency is supposed to 'subsidize' the guns? Unless things have changed, medicare needs documentation of need (physician) to authorize expenditures on medical advices. The documentation that a gun is needed for daily living in the same way as someone who needs a walker - would probably leave some bureacrat either on the floor laughing, or needing assistance picking their jaw off the floor.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 04:38 AM
Response to Original message
3. here is a better article
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 04:39 AM by madrchsod
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16207-gun-for-the...



article and picture from the boingboing website
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. What a piece of crap!
I can't see how this is any easier to use for the elderly than a regular semi-auto pistol. How do you aim it? It looks like you could shoot yourself easier than you could shoot someone else.
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Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 06:08 AM
Response to Original message
4. What happens when they squeeze it for their medical alert button.
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cstanleytech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 06:17 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Not to mention those with asthma and other breathing problesm who reach for their rescue inhaler
and grab it by mistake, talk about a way to clear the nasal passages.
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 06:31 AM
Response to Original message
6. I remember when my mom had dementia.
One of these around the house would have been really helpful, I am sure. I would look like swiss cheese.
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peace13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. Exactly!
When I got the call in the middle of the night asking why we had moved her to a room with no windows or doors, telling me that I was a dirty rotten scoundrel. Yes I can see walking into the apartment knowing that she had a loaded gun after that conversation.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #6
13. In before LanternWaste says "Add retirement homes to the places I won't go"
:nuke:
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desktop Donating Member (263 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:04 AM
Response to Original message
7. Normally you would think this is a joke, but not in America, it's all to real
How about gun turrets mounted on wheel chairs, or machine guns built into walkers. The easy triggers would be a good purchase for the kids, to. I bet their is a bunch of nursing homes that have good American citizens waiting to purchase these easy trigger weapons. Of course there is probably a bunch of pesky liberals out there that would try to ban these from the nursing homes. Just a bunch of anti gun pinko commies, the NRA will take care of those losers.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:05 AM
Response to Original message
8. I enjoy reading stories like this just to see peoples' heads exploding
:nuke:
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Endangered Specie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. *BOOOM* oooh ahhh *POW* ooh aaaaahhh
;)
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NOW tense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
9. Maybe they can claim it will reduce assisted suicide.
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dothemath Donating Member (221 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:27 AM
Response to Original message
10. thanks .................
Thanks to the posters who said something funny. A sense of humor is very important, particularly in these times

I am starting my day with a smile on my face. Thanks again.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
15. How is a gun a "medical device"?
I don't get it.
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. How is a gun a "medical device"?
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 09:48 AM by AlbertCat
It is used in conjunction with many other medical devices: ambulances, IVs of blood, gauze, probes, suture, clamps, those tags that go on the big toe, in the morgue.....
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #16
27. That claim appears to be more or less to generate publicity (and it's working).
The FDA has not, in fact, ruled it a medical device, AFAIK.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. It's not the gun itself
The gun is just a device. The modifications to allow a disabled person to use it make this one a medical device.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. That still makes no sense.
What's the medical reason for having this gun? Does it shoot medicine?
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Medical device for removing people who illegally use handicap parking zones.
and ignore "Stay off the Lawn" signs.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Does a motorized wheelchair perform medicine?
The problem you are having is that you don't consider a firearm something that a person might "need", in your personal judgement.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. There's a medical reason to have a motorized wheelchair.
What's the medical purpose of this gun?
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. What's the medical purpose of having a motorized one?
Obviously to provide basic transportation for a person who is not capable of getting around on a non-motorized one.

What's the medical purpose of this gun?

To enable a person who is otherwise incapable of firing a gun, to fire a gun.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Sorry, but that's not a good enough reason for the government to subsidize this.
There's no medical or quality of life reason for this to be covered under medicaid.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Thank you for sharing your personal opinion
I'm happy to let the FDA decide whether or not the device is eligible for coverage. They know a lot more about such things than I do.
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Shardik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. Not surprised that you would defend this.
Sad.

Really sad.

Will you support pacifiers with 9mm weapons built in?
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. I neither defend nor oppose it
If the FDA doesn't agree with the manufacturer, the FDA can deny coverage.

Will you support pacifiers with 9mm weapons built in?

No, but I do wonder whether or not you think disabled people have the right to defend themselves.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. The issue isn't whether they have the right to defend themselves.
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 01:22 PM by Bleachers7
No one is saying it shouldn't be produced or sold. The issue is what makes this a medical device.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. It's medical because it allows a person who cannot fire a normal gun to fire a gun
Simple enough.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Not good enough.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. Sez you.
:hi:
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Shardik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. Wow. What are you?
The official DU NRA spokesman?

You have to be kidding. No one can be so dense as to see through this thing.

Who would you be against having a gun? Outside of convicted felons which include a lot of non-violent marijuana users.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. I'm not sure I should bother with this, but I will answer your last question
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 07:52 PM by slackmaster
I think the federal laws excluding certain people from owning a firearm are correct as presently written. To that I would add anyone who doesn't want to have a gun. I take it from your replies that you would add people who, due to physical disability, cannot fire a standard gun. It's an understandable position if you believe everyone with osteoarthritis must also be too mentally challenged to excercise good judgement.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec...

As for your first question, my interest in the subject is explained in my profile. I am not an NRA member.
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Shardik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. You probably shouldn't have bothered.
Because I still feel that people of your ilk have something inherently wrong with them.

There are folks that keep a gun in their closet, there are hunters that may have two or three guns specific to the hunting that they do and then, there are the phreaks. Those that want to own every gun and shoot every gun out there and feel that they are warding off the very nature of evil from their homes.

Sorry, I think you fit in the third descriptor.

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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. Wow so you don't want to know the truth you'd rather rely on your opinion.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #41
44. My "ilk"? I'm just someone who believes in giving people as many choices as possible.
Edited on Tue Dec-09-08 08:54 AM by slackmaster
What the fuck are you babbling about?

...Those that want to own every gun and shoot every gun out there and feel that they are warding off the very nature of evil from their homes.

Sorry, I think you fit in the third descriptor.


You're not sorry. You're just arrogant and mean. And bigoted. And wrong.
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DonEBrook Donating Member (506 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #41
47. There are some assholes who think the Bill of Rights ends after the First Amendment.
...
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
17. Ask Me About My Ungrateful Grandchildren
Bang Bang!
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Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
21. Funny, I haven't heard any one cry about CCP for the elderly
Grandpa needs to defend himself!




of course :sarcasm:
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. Grandpa can get a CHL and carry a conventional handgun...
like my own father does. There is nothing about being 70 or 80 or 90 that makes you automatically incompetent to use a handgun or carbine, though arthritis and such can set limits on trigger pull weight, overall weight, and recoil.

The hypothetical gun described in the OP isn't much of a defense gun. It's a single-shot 9mm with no sights and a super-short barrel, if the illustration I saw on another site was accurate.
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
25. It's the Brady Campaign's dream gun...a single-shot 9mm with no sights.
This is a publicity stunt; the FDA has not, in fact, classified it as a medical device, so the headline is a bit misleading.

There are plenty of guns on the market that the elderly can use, and use well. Someone with severe arthritis may find a carbine easier to use than a handgun, though.
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The Sushi Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
37. BETTER LINK TO STORY HERE:
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Shardik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
38. After review, I can't get over how NUTS this idea is.
"Using the thumb instead of the index finger for firing, it significantly reduces muzzle drift," it says, "one of the principal causes of inaccurate targeting. Point and shoot couldn't be easier."

(from the manufacturer)

Plus, it appears there are TWO safeties that need to be depressed to fire the piece as discerned by the photos.


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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. You have a problem with devices that prevent accidental discharges, and make a shot more accurate?
You've got to be kidding.
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Shardik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. Arthritis?
Ever tried to open a can, jar or anything with it?

Many geriatric patients experience arthritis and would find the dexterity of holding down two safeties plus "pushing" the trigger impossible if not very time consuming.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #42
45. I wasn't aware that levels of ability were either all or nothing
Edited on Tue Dec-09-08 09:02 AM by slackmaster
So there are people who are capable of doing anything they wish, and people who can't do anything at all.

Either you see perfectly, or you are profoundly blind.

Many geriatric patients experience arthritis and would find the dexterity of holding down two safeties plus "pushing" the trigger impossible if not very time consuming.

Obviously individuals with that degree of disability would not be able to use the device under discussion here. I would trust THEM to use THEIR JUDGEMENT in deciding whether or not they could.

:dunce:

The difference between you and me is that I trust people to make their own responsible decisions, and you don't believe the option to own a firearm should even be available to the disabled.
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LeftHander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
46. They are working on a model for babies...
Edited on Tue Dec-09-08 09:11 AM by LeftHander
It is used much like a pacifier. When the baby feels threatend the child clamps down on the winkie and a .38 caliber bullet fires from the 2" barrel extending from the pacifier.

Constitution Arms motto - "A gun in every hand from cradle to grave."
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