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"Favreau's Sexist Photo Is No Laughing Matter" (DeeDee Myers)

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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:03 PM
Original message
"Favreau's Sexist Photo Is No Laughing Matter" (DeeDee Myers)
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 07:24 PM by KoKo01
Favreau's Sexist Photo Is No Laughing Matter
by Dee Dee Myers
December 8, 2008, 5:00 PM

Oh, what to do. An incredibly talented young aide, to an impossibly idealistic new president, gets caught doing something indefensibly stupid and undeniably sexist. Everyone is uncomfortable. But should anyone be held accountable? Apparently not.

The incident Im talking about, of course, is the photo of Jon Favreau, Barack Obamas 27-year-old wunderkind speechwriter, with his hand on a cardboard cutout of Hillary Clintons chest. See above. Yes, thats the wunderkind on the left; on the right, is an as-yet- unidentified member of the Obama staff. Charming.

I cant stop thinking about this picture, and I confess I find it really upsetting. And, no, its not because I dont have a sense of humor. I like to think I have a well-earned reputation for often irreverent, sometimes ill-advised humor. But Im not laughing now.

And its not that I was never young. My friends from college and in the years just beyond can testify that I did some things then that I wouldnt want to see on the Internet now. But I had a big job in the White House at a young age too; at 31just a few years older than Favreau is nowI became White House press secretary. And I knew instantly that the rules had changed for me, that I could no longer go to all the parties of the people just a little younger than me, who had just a little less responsibility, and expect to be anonymous. Clearly, Favreau should have understood that too. If hes old enough and wise enough and mature enough to write for the president of the United Statesand not just any president but one who seems poised to take words more seriously than any since Abraham Lincolnthan hes clearly old enough and wise enough and mature enough to avoid getting his picture taken behaving in a way that is embarrassing to him, his boss, the secretary of statedesignate, his family, and, one hopes, a majority of 27-year-old males (though that may be too optimistic.) Its indefensible. But thats still not whats bugging me.

Whats bugging me is his intention. He isnt putting his hand on her chest, as most of the articles and conversations about the picture have euphemistically referred to it. Rather, his handcupped just sois clearly intended to signal that hes groping her breast. And why? Surely, not to signal he finds her attractive. Au contraire. Its an act of deliberate humiliation. Of disempowerment. Of denigration.

And it disgusts me.

Oh, I know: If Hillary can get over it, why cant I? Her spokesman, Phillipe Reinnes, tried to make light of the incident. Senator Clinton is pleased to learn of Jons obvious interest in the State Department, and is currently reviewing his application, he told the Washington Post in an E-mail. Obviously, she has no interest in making a federal case out of this particular incident, particularly as both the Clinton and Obama camps work on letting bygones be bygones. She has to pick her battles, and for her this aint a hill worth dying on.

But there is a larger issue at stake. At what point does sexist behavior get taken seriously? At what point do people get punished in ways that suggest this kind of behavior, this kind of thinking, is unacceptable? At what point do we insist there will be consequences? Clearly, that didnt happen during the recent presidential campaign, when Hillary wasas I guess she is nowfair game. The press, the pundits, and the public could say things about her (Shes a shrew!) and to her (Iron my shirt!) that were over-the-top sexistyet got almost no reaction.

Imagine how different the reaction would be if an important aide to John McCain had been caught in similar picture featuring Michelle Obama? Or if the picture had shown a cutout of Barack Obama and, say, a white hood? Why is it when ideology and race are eliminated, so is the outrage?

Im not sure what the appropriate punishment should be for Jon Favreau, but I know it should be more than a groveling phone call to Senator Clinton. At a minimum, President-Elect Obama should take Favreau on his firstand, hopefully, his lastvery public trip to the woodshed.


http://www.vanityfair.com/online/politics/2008/12/favre...
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. She wants him get fired for that?
He was "cupping" and "intently groping her breast"? Wow, let's call the police for cardboard harassment.
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amdezurik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. after 8 years of drunken frat-boy
I for one have had enough...
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #17
33. I feel like this place has been replaced by the Moral Majority.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #33
159. and i feel this place tends toward the immature prepubescent pimpled faced little boy
too often.

it wasn't cute, funny or just a laugh.

you might actually listen to what this woman is suggesting. that it was meant to humiliate. and what part of that is harmless.
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #159
172. It was tasteless and dumb, but let's not make this like a violation of the Geneva Convention.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #172
190. it was sexist and wrong and should be called exactly that and clear that is unacceptable
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 09:16 PM by seabeyond
why must you take it to genevia convention to make lite. this nation and our males are having a real tough time owning up to the escalating sexism in this nation and addressing it. this is a mature, smart, educated MAN..... who should FUCKIN know better and doesnt as so many more men on this thread seem to NOT get it either.
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #190
194. "Why Women Should Rule the World" is more sexist than that picture.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #194
199. yet here we have, on and on and on, a male telling me what i should not be offended about
by their behavior....

no history in this dude.... :sarcasm:
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #199
201. I'm a girl and I could care less.
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 09:19 PM by mwei924
Because neither her book title nor a drunken picture are taken seriously.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #201
205. fine
there is a big issue in this. this is just indicitive of a greater issue that certainly effects you and any daughter or son you may have

good luck to you
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #205
206. Yes, if any of my future children get cardboard cutouts made of them and then fake "groped"..
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 09:21 PM by mwei924
I'll remember this conversation.. and realize that I still couldn't care less.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #206
212. certainly, while raising children dont look beyond. just look at the most narrow
shallow picture of an issue.

big thumbs up.

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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #212
213. I'd rather not raise kids to be PC humorless robots.
Yes, its OK to laugh at a dirty joke. Or enjoy a raunchy movie. Or anticipate "Sexiest Man Alive" issues without feeling outraged by all the sexism and degrading.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #213
226. humorless?
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 09:40 PM by Two Americas
I related my story downthread of building a diverse workforce thirty years ago. Ethnic and sexist "humor" and "just joking around" and "what harm does it do?" and "those people are being too sensitive" were not tolerated - period.

I can assure you that we all had a lot more fun without that poison in the environment. We didn't know what fun was before that.
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #226
233. At work...ok. In their down time, what do you care?
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 09:46 PM by mwei924
The only dumb thing about this picture is that he allowed someone to post it.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #233
244. not something you can turn off and on
This is not about policing people's superficial behavior, as though we were running a grade school and enforcing good manners.This is about hatred and bigotry and the things that contribute to that.

The man works for the next president of the United States. Even if "stupid" is all he is guilty of, that is grounds for termination in my opinion. You don't embarrass the boss or place the mission at risk, and potentially hurt millions of people.

"To whom much is given, much is expected."

"If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen."

The guy posed for the picture. He obviously thought it was funny. The Obama staff is vetting and qualifying people as never before. There is simply no excuse for this, even if we leave the bigotry and sexism out of the discussion.

I don't care if he chose the wrong friends, went to the wrong party, wasn't thinking, was too drunk or WTF ever.
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #244
246. I guess its time to fire half the government. And wipe off half of our previous Presidents.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #246
257. not at all
This is the behavior of the few. That is what we discovered in the real world. Almost all effortlessly and cheerfully complied,and all benefited tremendously. Of course that was a while back, and those people had not grown up listening to right wing mouthpieces yapping about "pc" and "reverse discrimination" and "torture is like harmless frat pranks" and other idiocy.
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #257
275. So we should also dig up dirt on who watches porn? That's degrading to women for sure..
..and if a guy approves of porn, what does that say about his views on women? Maybe he has no place in the workplace either.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #275
298. you are confusing sex and power
I think several people on this thread are making the same mistake. That would lead you to think that it is merely being prudish, or easily offended, to object to this.

The message is not "I want to have sex with you" it is "I have power over you." Blending those two together as though they were the same thing is very disturbing.

I guess this shouldn't be surprising, because we have been bombarded by right wing propaganda for 30 years now telling us that power imbalances are irrelevant. As Democrats, we see power imbalances as everything, as the only reason for being interested in politics and for being a Democrat.

What I don't quite understand is how a person comes to think of themselves as a Democrat when they embrace the right wing framework. Is it solely a matter of a couple of positions on cultural war issues, or personal taste and a matter of style and fashion, and nothing to do with politics?

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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #298
312. excellent comment and question.....n/t
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #298
322. The liberal dudez don't want to give up their privilege. nt
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #322
329. i am thinkin. that is what i am seeing from this site. discouraging to say the least. n/t
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Gwendolyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #298
334. So where were you in the '80s?
That whole time women were told "you can do everything" and all men were to be looked at as dummies. That worked just fine. :)

I don't think the doodles did it because he was implementing power. Think it was more a show of drunken, ridiculous powerlessness. Don't you get that?

You should be feeling pity, not outrage.
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Scout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #275
316. why do you keep making up all these exagerations??
dig up dirt on porn watchers ... fire half the government...

can't you actually discuss the points other people are making, and reply to their actual words and statements, instead of your silly "questions", all full of hyperbole

:eyes:

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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #316
335. Right, so comparing this to nooses and burning crosses is what? Understatement?
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #213
228. you dont get it. you werent in work force in 60's and 70's. you are clueless
and the generation of girls that have all their freedoms today cause of what we fought for in the past are pissin it away cause you are clueless.
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #228
236. So if I'm not outraged by a facebook picture, I'm clueless?
Good lord, get over yourself. Women aren't being hindered by this stupid picture. No woman is going to not get some job because some guy posed with a cardboard cutout. I'm not losing my right to vote over this.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #236
255. you should be outraged that a grown, educated, smart MAN felt this appropriate behavior
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 10:36 PM by seabeyond
to pretend to grope an accomplished and successful and productive of a woman as hillary in order to belittle her.

really has absolutely nothing to do with a picture on facebook. hence, your own inability to focus on the issue.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #255
261. this is very interesting
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 10:38 PM by Two Americas
Our friend says she wants "equal pay." Yet in the work experience I related from 30 years ago, by eliminating the hostile and demeaning environment, and hiring on talent and potential, and promoting on merit and achievement, women did achieve equal pay and status, not merely in theory but in reality. In fact, within a year we hardly had any white men at all, since there was such a bigger talent pool of people who had been previously excluded available. Women, people of color and GLBT folks were underemployed and available for hire in massive numbers - talented, brilliant people who were not being hired and promoted anywhere else. It made the best business sense, as well as being the right thing to do morally. And the division kicked butt. While the other divisions were horsing around and playing the "good old boys club" games and yucking it up with all of their derogatory jokes about our staff, we got the job done and ran circles around them.

Maybe the reason why equal pay has not been achieved 30 years later is because we have backed away from that approach now just about everywhere, and because the younger generation of women does not want to pay the price, does not want to fight, but wants to "have fun" and be "given" equal pay, while encouraging and defending rampant sexism.
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #261
267. Nice story but not everyone wants to be PC all the time (like at a private party).
To hire/fire based on someone's private views that have nothing to do with work is ridiculous. If they're not bringing their private life into work, digging into their every embarrassing little detail does nothing.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #267
302.  "private views"
Edited on Tue Dec-09-08 10:45 AM by Two Americas
A person can hold whatever religious views they like, but cannot proselytize in the work place. But this is not quite the same situation as that.

If a person works for or represents a public figure, then yes, they are required to not embarrass or undermine the public figure in any way - at the office or not.

Do you think it would be OK for someone to hold a position of power within the Democratic party when their "private views" were that they supported the Republican party?

"Embarrassing little detail?" - hardly. "Digging?" - hardly.

Also, it is obviously not a case of "private views that have nothing to do with work" unless we think gender inequality and mistreatment of and discrimination against women have nothing to do with politics or with the Democratic party.

Do you really believe that not expressing contempt against women is a "pc" issue?? Does that go for "jokes" that express hatred toward other groups of people? Minority people? GLBT people? Are we just being too "sensitive" in all of these cases?

It so happens that I was at a high school band concert last night, and the kids were talking about this very issue afterward - about a dozen or so of them. The district is about evenly split Democratic-Republican, about 40% Hispanic, and evenly split between boys and girls. Every single one of the kids agreed with me on this. "Creepy, disgusting, demeaning, disrespectful, insulting" were some of the comments. They felt that this was very much a "big deal" and that it told us that the man was not suited for a public position such as he held and should be fired. "It sends a message that it is OK, under the guise of a 'joke' to not take women seriously" one of the young ladies said.
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #255
263. Maybe I just don't see a BIG issue in all this.
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 11:11 PM by mwei924
I'm just not that sensitive. I'm sorry if it offends you that I'm not offended.

To me, this IS just a dumb facebook picture. And I've seen many that are dumber than this-- and I don't cut off contact with those people because it.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #263
321. you don't
I agree, you don't see an issue here.

It is not a matter of being "sensitive" or "offended" but rather a matter of perception and the appliciation critical thinking skills.

I am not "sensitive" or "offended" nor am I surprised or shocked by the man's behavior - I didn't just fall off the turnip truck. His arrogance is a little surprising.

I am very much alarmed and disgusted, however, by the line of reasoning that people are using to defend him here.
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Winterblues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #201
297. not taken seriously by you, but guess what, you are not the USA
Many, many, people find this very offensive and it tells a lot about you that you just can't "get that".....
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Scout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #201
315. maybe that's your problem "i'm a 'girl' " n/t
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #194
305. If Dee Dee Myers truly competed with men for jobs she'd know that the easiest way to ONE-UP
Edited on Tue Dec-09-08 10:56 AM by ShortnFiery
these BOYS is say something to the effect (re: HRC groping cardboard poster): "Yeah, in your dreams!"

If they'd pay attention to the attitude demonstrated of HRC's heroine, Maggie Thatcher, as Prime Minister of the UK, they'd know that such OUTBURSTs were flattering to her MOXIE with playing hardball WITH THE MEN. Maggie would have been flattered by the "Hillary Nutcracker" and any reference to her having "Brass Balls."

Face it, dear feminist peers = We live in a machismo world. Sure we can be androgynous BUT we are not going to change politics and/or the business world into an Hallmark Mini-series or an Oxygen Channel "made for TV" Movie.

That is, I love to cross-stitch but I also love to use my table saw and new power-washer.

In other words, when you are a woman 'in power" THROW subordinates their sexism back at them ...

For example, "Don't flatter yourselves boys!" :rofl:

SITUATION RESOLVED without drama. ;)
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #172
193. that is backward, isn't it?
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 09:15 PM by Two Americas
Would it not be more appropriate and accurate to say "let's not defend the guy as though he were being charged with a capital crime?"
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #193
198. If it were something actually serious, I wouldn't be defending him..
..and I assume Hillary wouldn't have just laughed it off like she did. Maybe you should be mad at Hillary for not standing up against oppression and sexism, instead of people here who have no say in the matter anyways.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #198
202. if she said a GD word or made any issue of it or DIDNT laugh it off, she would
be called on not being tough enough.

but

i am done with this intereacting with you. you could care less the issue. the problem. and how it effects all of us. the bigger part of this.
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #202
204. Well, you don't know that.
If she felt like this offended her, I would say it's reasonable for her to complain. But since she hasn't given any indication, I'm not sure why YOU'RE complaining.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #204
238. "offended"
It is not about being offended, about pc, about being overly sensitive or any of the rest of that right wing double talk.

It is about gestures, words, thoughts, and ideas from a member of the dominant group aimed at a disadvantaged group, for the purpose of ridiculing and humiliating people and "putting them in their place." That is not innocent, benign, nor humorous.

You are extremely naive or inexperienced if you do not see that this is exactly what men intend to do with this "humor."
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #238
241. I just don't care. Most of my friends who are girls don't care. We laugh at jokes if they're funny.
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 10:00 PM by mwei924
We don't overthink every dirty joke for hints of sexism or whatever. It's not inhibiting our rights to an education or a job or to vote.

I also like to read the "Sexiest Man Alive" issues even though they probably objectify men. And I liked the "Obama girl" video even though she probably wasn't supporting him for his immigration plan. I like talking about guys' appearances with friends. It cuts both ways, and I personally just don't care whichever way its directed.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #241
245. you girls...
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 10:11 PM by Two Americas
Maybe you girls need to talk to some women, maybe you need to learn a little more about the struggles and suffering of the women who went before you, those women who won the freedom for you that you now enjoy.

I am glad to hear that girls just want to have fun these days, but it is sad if that is all that was won, if that were all that so many courageous people who went before you sacrificed so much to obtain for you.
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #245
247. Over-analzying every little joke is not helping equal pay.
It just gives ammo to people who think women are too weak and can't handle it.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #247
249. that's true
Good point.

What would?
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #249
251. Umm. maybe legislation? Writing to people who have the ability to do something?
Pushing for a guy to get fired over a picture this inconsequential does NOTHING.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #251
269. ummm
The scenario that I outlined from 30 years ago actually achieved equal pay and status for real women in the real world. Since then we have backed away from that approach - you are arguing against that approach - and equal pay has still not been achieved. Give that some thought.
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #269
274. That was one company's choice. We don't get to force others to fire employees...
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 10:52 PM by mwei924
..for their private behavior and imperfections. What do we fire guys who watch porn? Or have pin-up posters? Aren't those things that objectify women?
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #274
306. "force?"
You are confused as to where the power lies.

Had this man, connected to a public figure, done anything that objectified women in such a way that it became public, then yes that would be a problem.

No one is talking about policing people's private lives.

Again, you are hung up on this right wing "pc" idea - that is is OK for someone to be an arrogant, irresponsible lout, so long as they don't get caught or don't "offend" some "pc" prudes by
"making a mistake" when they were just "having fun."

The episode indicates that this man is an arrogant, sexist, irresponsible lout - that is the problem, not that he broke the "pc" rules.
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Scout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #241
317. you've got an awful lot of posts in this thread for something you don't care about
maybe, when you and your friends are grown up women, you will care. :eyes:
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #317
336. I'm only annoyed when other people tell me that I HAVE to care...
.. or else I don't care about women's rights or something. I write a post that that says I don't think this is a big deal, then I get a bunch of PC fascists telling me that unless I feel the same outrage that they do, I'm a bigot/sexist (even though I'm female..).
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Scout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #336
356. "I'm a bigot/sexist (even though I'm female)"
what, now you think because you're female that you couldn't possibly be a bigot or a sexist? are you saying that women are incapable of being bigoted or sexist?
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Dorian Gray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #241
360. What about friends who are
women? Do any of them care?


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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #159
179. #33 & #159...
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 09:05 PM by KoKo01
:thumbsup:
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #179
209. you're funny, lol. wink. n/t
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #179
301. Oh B.S. HRC is not a victim in any way, shape or form. She should spin it "in their wildest dreams"
Edited on Tue Dec-09-08 10:39 AM by ShortnFiery
type quip. That one comment would completely diffuse the problem and we would not be drug through "oh poor victim" type soap operas that all things Clinton seems infamous for. :(

REALLY, this "Clintonian" meme from her underlings of PLAYING THE VICTIM is an insult to women who are *really* being sexually harassed and do not have the authority and/or power to stop the abuse.

HRC is NOT A VICTIM.

Time for those who adore HRC to put on "their big girl panties" or "big boy BVD" and realize when the person being MOCKED/PUNKED is someone with Great Power they are NOT ... I SAY again NOT being VICTIMIZED.

When a WOMAN has very low rank and/or social status, sexually harassing or mocking THEM is, IN FACT, abuse and/or victimization.

When the WOMAN is THE BOSS - she can't have it both ways and the employees are allowed to have their fun.

That's what's lonely about leadership - you have power but can NOT expect to be viewed as "part of the group of compadres."
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #301
330. i agree she isnt "victim" and i dont think anyone is suggesting she adopt that role. would NOT
be prudent. she is just not allowed to be bothered, offended or disgusted. but we the people can draw the line and use this instance as a means for discussion of what is acceptable and what is not. i think that is the issue many women on this thread is addressing.

no, she isnt allowed
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #330
337. Has Hillary given any indication that she's mad/offended?
NO. Why are you giving her all these feelings that she hasn't expressed at all? You're the one making her into a victim when it doesn't look like she feels that way.

If Hillary said that she was uncomfortable with it, and would rather not work with the young man, then I'd completely understand her feelings. BUT she clearly has not showed any interest in getting him fired-- why are you so intent?
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #337
339. work on your reading comprehension with this post....
the whole point of it is in how we have created our society today, even IF hillary did not like it, was offended by it (my point on post you address) she could not express it. it would not be welcome. she would be called a pc facist and would weaken her. the whole point with my post is she could NOt say anything even IF she was bothered.

post like yours clearly puts her in her place to keep her mouth shut, suck it up and "laugh" about it.
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #339
340. She has a right to be offended, but if she doesn't feel offended, why are you forcing others?
Edited on Tue Dec-09-08 09:31 PM by mwei924
Why wouldn't she be able to express it? It was her cardboard cutout! She can be as mad as she wants because it was HER image in that picture.

But she's not mad, and other people being offended for her is ridiculous.

Hillary spokesperson saying, it was "an example of just good-natured fun between former rival camps".
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #340
342. you dont even try to look beyond do you. no, she could not say, hey all
that is really offensive and sexist. she could. not. do. it. successfully. no, she does not have the "right" to be offended in this atmosphere today. and you are a perfect example in your posts why she cannot be offended and so many of the male posters on this thread. just a little thinking on your part will give you a clue with that.

or experience in life. maybe that is what you lack. maybe such a naivete on your part, i dont know

but no

she does not get the right to be bothered by it. she must shrug and laugh it off. she has no other choice. that is an obvious, and even something that simple you dont get.
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #342
344. So now you're psychoanalyzing her from afar?
You're making a million assumptions that you can't confirm by any means. All WE (people who don't talk to her privately) know is from her released statements. If her public statements show no problem with it, then are we saying that she's lying?

She has no other choice? How do you know that? Hillary is not someone who shies away from speaking her mind. She's the freakin' SoS designate; I'm sure she has a lot more sway than you give her credit for. She's not some wilting flower who has to run and hide because she can't express her real feelings. Your attempts to paint her as some weakling who has no choice but to go along belittles her more than that dumb picture.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #344
346. really
you just sound clueless.

your interpretation is wrong.
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #346
351. Wow, powerful argument. You've convinced me.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 06:39 AM
Response to Reply #351
355. why.
why should anyone try.

you keep blinders and ignore what is actually being said, making up a story to tell in counter argument.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #342
350. Oh come on! This guy doesn't mean as much as a gnat on HRC's ass. SHE has all the POWER.
Yet you willing to give this "little man" permission to trash her via a cardboard cutout?!?

OMG! This is bullshit! You can NOT be a VICTIM if you are SIGNIFICANTLY MORE POWERFUL than your little-league attacker.

it's like a grade school kid throwing a tantrum. HRC becoming incensed would be akin to her "beating up an 8 year old."

Consider the source and DAMN I don't miss all this MANUFACTURED OUTRAGE on The Clintons' behalf. :(
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
162. I do
The fact that it is cardboard is not an excuse, it is damning in my view. Among teen age boys, people who were not working for the president, not traveling in privileged circles, not enjoying perks and fabulous salaries it would be the weird exception for someone to think such a tacky and mean-spirited thing was "funny" or harmless.

We have had about enough of the arrogance of the people around power, have we not? This it the same guy who bragged about his fancy new digs, while millions of less fortunate Americans are in danger of losing their homes.

Enough with the arrogance, the frat boy crudity, the "I've got mine" and the "I am a somebody and can do what I want, the rules don't apply to me. The rest of you are suckers and losers" attitudes.

Public service is not a joke.

Fire him.
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BlancheSplanchnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
170. I'll bet you were righteously pissed about the Obama monkey-doll
brandished at a McCain/Palin rally.

It's the same hate.

Thanks for perfectly illustrating the attitude the OP is talking about.
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Thorandmjolnir Donating Member (390 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #170
304. Hate?
Are you seriously equating some racist dude at a Palin hate fest, with a some young man, obviously in a good mood, playing with a card board cutout?

WOW!
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lukasahero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
293. No - read: "Im not sure what the appropriate punishment should be for Jon Favreau, "
No, she doesn't want him fired and she clearly said so.

Some of us would be satisfied with someone of stature publicly standing up and saying this juvenile behavior is inappropriate and will not be tolerated by the new administration.
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Midlodemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
2. Exactly what I said. It was an attempt to humiliate her and anyone
who doesn't see that is being deliberately obtuse.

What if it were Michelle that a Hillary staff was doing that to? As someone pointed out earlier, there would be 100 posts stating 'I can't stop crying'.

Sexism is alive and well. At DU.
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Bunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. It's been ever thus, sadly.
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hendo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Sorry Midlo
You and I often agree, but I just don't see it here.
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Midlodemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. That's fine. We can agree to disagree.
I just wonder what the level of outrage here would be if it were Michelle being groped by a Hillary or McCain staffer?
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Uzybone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. It might be higher levels of outrage, but it would be just as stupid.
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #10
40. People who don't care about cardboard, just don't care about cardboard.
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hendo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
59. by a McCain staffer
would probably cause more outrage. However, in either case its still a cardboard figure, right? It isn't like he pot a Hillary mask on a blowup doll.
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Midlodemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #59
67. Why would that be different?
The 'cupping' of his hand is what bothers me. It's a subtle implying of 'copping a feel'.
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hendo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #67
119. I just think
that more people would find a reason to be offended if it were a McCain supporter. That just seems to be how things work here.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #59
138. So you say: "If McCain Staffer or Repug did it ...BAD!" If "Dem Obama Speechwriter does it: GOOD!"
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 08:14 PM by KoKo01
OMG...What a Hypocrite!
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hendo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #138
155. nope
I don't understand why its bad in either case. i just think DU would get more up in arms about a McCain supporter doing it.

Please don't put words in my mouth.
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JDwho Donating Member (339 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 02:40 AM
Response to Reply #10
352. Or if juvenile writer was groping a cardboard cut out of Emmanuel.
Hmmm. That may cause some buzz. I think it was in poor taste and perhaps (emphasize perhaps) meant to demean HRC. In addition, the dignified nature of this presidency should be protected and preserved. Is this guy committed to that? I don't know. I'm sure he regrets it, but it was a outstandingly dumb thing to do, and then actually post it to facebook.
Offensive, but childish and not a road-block for the women's movement or equal pay...JMHO.
JD
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
29. Agreed. If it were a McCain staffer doing it to an image of Michelle Obama there
would be a collective DU outrage.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
58. Oh please. If it was Michele, people would state their disgust and move on.
There's nothing wrong with finding that action offensive. But when it veers off into the hyperbole I've seen on this board then it gets ridiculous. But I truly see the ONLY injured party as Hillary if she choses to be offended. Apparently she does not. So why should you?
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #58
91. Yup - And You Know Why?
Because no one would be saying, "it's just a piece of cardboard, get over it."
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #58
153. all women
All women are injured by this.

Objecting to this is not merely a matter of being "offended." That trivializes the issue.
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #153
156. Really? I don't feel "injured".
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #156
186. so what?
Members of oppressed groups often become accustomed to and comfortable with demeaning treatment.

If all women objected to this sort of humiliation, mistreatment of women and gender inequality would end.

Or we can laugh it off as "just a joke" and accuse those talking about it of "making too much of it."

I think the apologists are the ones making a big deal out of this, myself.
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:25 PM
Original message
So why are you claiming that "ALL women" are injured by this?
Clearly not all women feel that way. Some actually have a sense of humor.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
219. not relevant
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 09:34 PM by Two Americas
I will repost what I said elsewhere on the thread about this (I am surprised that there is any controversy about this in 2008, to be honest.)

30 years ago, in a relatively lower level management job, we would get fired for this.

Now, we could have said "hey we are just having fun and why are people making a big deal about it?"

Instead we took this attitude - we are supportive of women advancing in this business, committed to their success, and these "sex" jokes are demeaning and intimidating, intended to signal women that they are inferior and had better know their place, and we are not going to tolerate that environment here."

No drama. No upset. Done deal. It is only right wingers who complain that men, or white men, are somehow being "persecuted by the PC police."

We went on to create the strongest division in the company, and were the first in the country in our field to hire and promote women, people of color and GLBT people.

No drama. It is about what is morally right, and also about what works.
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #219
225. YOU posted it. I'm not claiming that it's relevant, but responding to your statement.
That's nice for your company, but they also would've fired Bill Clinton for getting BJs on the job. I'd prefer to have talented people who are good at their jobs, even if they don't lead perfectly PC lives.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #225
227. how you feel
How you "feel" is not relevant.
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #227
232. At least I'm consistent.
I don't give a shit about this OR Bill Clinton's blowjobs. You seem to care a whole lot about one but not the other.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #232
254. yeah that's me
Different circumstances, different opinion.

I don't care about the guy, a whole lot or otherwise. I care about women being treated and looked at in a demeaning way, but mostly about people justifying and apologizing for that here.

And yes,I care more about bigotry than I do about people's personal sex lives. You will find me always making a distinction between the two, and hold different opinions about each of them.

Also, I don't see the only two available options to be either "making a big deal" or "not caring." Are you not kinda "making a big deal" here, too? You seem to care very much about some aspect of this subject.
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #254
271. So making this into some epic fight against oppression and bigotry is you not caring?
Really? You think this is bigotry? Insensitive yes. Tasteless YES. But bigotry?
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #271
309. yes, of course
"...a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own..."

You are trying to turn this around, and complain that those objecting to this are the ones
"making a big deal" and being intolerant of "the boys having a little fun."

What he did very much betrays an "intolerance of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his own." He said, in effect, and you are agreeing that "the Hell with anyone who would be insulted by or object to this. It is their problem." That is the defense that bigots always use. "Get over it. Don't be so sensitive. Geez can't we just have a little fun without 'you people' lecturing us?"

The episode is relatively minor in and of itself. But the defenses posted here have broad implications, and that is a very big deal and worthy of discussion. You want to move on, and think that this should not be a big deal, providing your view prevails. So long as some of us are unwilling to agree with you, you are perfectly willing - eager - to continue to discuss this and make a big deal about it.
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Scout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #156
320. "girls" who like to have fun and be popular with the boys, of course wouldn't
think that all women are being injured. those girls are willing to play the stupid game, and think they are winning; they don't give a good god damn about other women.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 05:54 AM
Response to Reply #153
288. Oh brother. Not that "all women" canard again. I'm a woman and I'm
not injured. I swear I'm not. You superior types always think you know what's best for the rest of us. THAT is what I find offensive.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #288
323. odd take
A racial slur is injurious to all members of the targeted ethic group, is it not? If one person said "gee I don't feel bad about it and I am a member of that group" that would indicate nothing about the issue, would it?

The right wingers love to play this game. If they can find one person from a group who will deny or support bigotry against there group, they parade them all over as though this "proves" that no bigotry exists. This is an old trick, and a very transparent one, and I would hope that all of us would be alert to it and reject it.
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GoneOffShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #58
180. They're Baaaaack!!!
The Brothers and Sisters of Our Lady of Perpetual Outrage are here again.

But I love them for the entertainment they provide. Their heads are exploding because they can't grasp the fact that the guy has said sorry, been rapped on the knuckles and the person who should be most offended isn't.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #180
203. that is insulting and malicious
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 09:23 PM by Two Americas
The problem is that people are ferociously defending him and denying that there is any issue here.

It is a right wing theme to say "Brothers and Sisters of Our Lady of Perpetual Outrage" - the idea being that "oh, those liberals are always complaining about something," and so should not be taken seriously.

I am not outraged nor surprised at what this guy did. He should, of course, be fired. End of that story.

What is outrageous, and what is making this a "big deal" is the way people are defending him and denying that there is any serious issue here.

I don't know that I am "perpetually outraged" and I suppose that will continue to be outraged so long as people here are expressing sexist, racist, homophobic and bigoted ideas. That, unfortunately, happens all too often. Is the problem that people express sexist, racist, homophobic and bigoted ideas, or is the problem that others object to those?
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #203
216. It's not just the right-wing..
..Liberals being too crazy about political correctness has a bad rep with everyone. I gotta agree with that.
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GoneOffShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #203
223. I'm not ferociously defending him - But, I'm too old to think that . . .
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 09:37 PM by GoneOffShore
In the larger scheme of things that this

actually means shit!



People will continue to express unpopular and obnoxious ideas. Well, at least until the thought police shoot us all and then who will be left? Just the self righteously smug.

If Mrs Clinton has moved on, why can't you?

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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #223
310. disagree
People among us, Democrats, promoting the right wing lies about "pc" and "fun" and turning the world upside down by blaming the victims for complaining - calling them "pc police" and such - and pretending that power and power imbalances are irrelevant to politics, and mocking and ridiculing people, is important. I think it is the whole battle, not some trivial side show. Calling it a trivial side show is exactly how the right wingers dismiss and disappear us and our opinions. That matters.

Senator Clinton cannot respond to this - she is damned if she does and damned if she doesn't. Besides, this is not merely a matter of a personal insult.

"Thought police shoot us all?" That is right out of the right wing propaganda handbook, there.
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GoneOffShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #310
348. Did you like "Tropic Thunder"?
Edited on Tue Dec-09-08 10:39 PM by GoneOffShore
I'll hazard a guess that you didn't.

So, we'll disagree.

I'll fry my fish and you fry yours.

Have a nice day.

Or you can do the other thing, as my father in law used to put it.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
3. "Its an act of deliberate humiliation. Of disempowerment. Of denigration."
Yep - that's the problem with it.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
63. You forgot your sarcasm smilie......I think..
:shrug:
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
4. Finally a thread on this subject I can K & R instead of alerting on as sexist filth..
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rch35 Donating Member (658 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
45. What's that kids? It's the thought police!"
<This image link contains an illegal code" target="_blank|[img src="" border="0" alt="Photobucket">]
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #45
114. Policing some folks' thoughts would take an electron microscope.
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 07:52 PM by Jim Sagle
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rch35 Donating Member (658 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #114
258. are you trying to tell me that your thoughts are so big that i could see them with the naked eye?
or does your comeback just make no sense at all?
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #258
277. Your original comment about thought police is the one that made no sense.
I tried to lug it back to reality with my reply but it was just too big and full of shit.
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rch35 Donating Member (658 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 02:08 AM
Response to Reply #277
287. somethin like that. have it your way Jim "Sexist Filth" Sagle. i hope you have fun going through
life convinced you understand everyone perfectly.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #287
296. Thanks for the fake compliment, but I believe I do understand simple things.
This one is about as simple as it gets.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #45
313. that is a right wing theme
No one can talk about bigotry, about power imbalances, without being accused of being "the thought police." It was a fringe and extremist way of looking at things 30 years ago, but decades of these themes being pounded into the minds of people have made them seem reasonable.

Disagreeing is not "policing thoughts." The right wingers came up with this "argument" because they cannot defend their point of view honestly and openly.

Of course, it is those accusing others of being "the thought police" that are trying to force their views on people. As with so much of the right wing thinking, if you want to know what they are doing you merely need to look at what they are accusing others of doing.

I don't understand how people come to think of themselves as Democrats, when all of their political thinking occurs within the bounds of the conceptual frameworks that were created by the opposition, for the purpose of undermining and sabotaging us with the public. No wonder we are always taking two steps forward and three backward. No wonder our representatives could not stand up to the extremists from the Republican party.
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Scout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #45
318. once it's posted on the internet, it's no longer thought n/t
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
48. I know...was waiting for someone "else" with creds to post an article..
Thanks to DeeDee for doing it. Otherwise some of us were just "spitting in the winds of change."
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ben_meyers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
5. Oh spare us the outrage about groping her breast
Do you remember who you worked for in the White House? At least he's just a speech writer.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. Do you think the guy was showing sexual interest or trying to humiliate??
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Yes, I'm sure he was in a perfect state of mind for plotting humiliation tactics
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Think before posting. What was the point of the action??
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. The point was that he was hammered at a house party.
You can read all you want into it, but all it amounts to is that a guy was drunk and looked stupid in a picture.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Wrong. He intended something. What?
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. I think you're psychoanalyzing someone you don't know.
What was his intention? Who the hell knows? I'm not gonna try to peer into the subconscious of a drunk guy at a party.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Cop out .
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. It's ridiculous that you would even try to assume someone's evil intentions.
Maybe I happen to believe in judging a person based on more than one drunken photo. If that's a cop out, then I'd prefer that over your faux moralizing.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. You're so defensive about this, you can't even see straight...
Anyone with half a brain can see what that was about.
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #38
44. I can see that it was a drunken party.
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 07:32 PM by mwei924
I'm not gonna judge him in that context. He could be a huge sexist in life or he could be a huge supporter of women's issues, based on this one picture, you can't say either. The fact that you want to read so much into his intentions or evil plots speaks more about you.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #44
51. I didn't say anything about the rest of his life - just the obvious intent of this action...
...which you seem to have a lot of trouble seeing.

(And being drunk is no excuse - for anything.)
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #51
55. Never done anything stupid while drunk?
I'm pretty sure people would hump a parking meter if they were drunk enough. I doubt that their intent would be so calculating.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #55
65. Sure, we all do stupid stuff when drunk - and all of us are responsible...
...for our actions anyway.

The problem with this guy's action is that it was a demeaning one. Being drunk doesn't change that.
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #65
71. Stupid and tasteless- yes. Demeaing? Really?
In hypersensitive land.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #71
81. The problem is his INTENT - get it ?? (If not, read DeeDee's article again.)
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #81
85. It was private party... and a private picture until his friend decided to post it.
So if this picture never saw the light of day, then what? Who would feel offended?
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #85
90. I'm just telling you WHY people like DeeDee were offended...
It's even more idiotic that the kid posted it.
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #90
101. The other guy posted it.
People can be offended all they want. Hell, people get offended when you say "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas". It doesn't mean that everyone MUST be offended or else.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #101
115. Surely you can read what DeeDee wrote and see it from her point of view though.
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #115
182. She also has a book called "Why Women Should Rule the World"
She can be outraged if she wants at whatever. Doesn't mean I have to take her seriously.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #182
325. so what?
A person can be right about one thing and wrong about another. One can agree with a person on one thing, while disagreeing with them on other things. Agreeing with a person on one issue does not imply that therefore one thinks that the person is perfect, or always right.

This, again, is a right wing propaganda tactic. Everything a person says is to be discredited by one thing they said or did, or because of what they allegedly "are" or because of some imagined "agenda" they might have.

Has right wing hate radio destroyed people's ability to think logically or critically? So many of their verbal tactics and illogical constructs keep surfacing in every discussion.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #51
73. For the sake of argument, say he DID want to humiliate Hillary. Then what?
Should he be stoned? Beheaded? What? What should happen to him? Nothing, right? Well then if nothing should happen to him why do you have to keep harping on it?
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #73
86. That's up to Barack imo - it's just amazing that people here don't get what the problem is.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #86
93. Then maybe it's you, huh? nt
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #93
111. I'm not the one who wrote the article - just agreeing with her...
Do you really think it's okay to put women down by grabbing their body parts?

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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #111
118. Whose body parts were grabbed??? Did I miss something here?
:shrug:
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #118
121. You've missed tons - but it ain't my job to get you up to speed. :)
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #121
123. I know that I'm up to speed enough to not confuse cardboard with human flesh..
;)
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #123
326. silly distinction
Would a hateful racist remark or image be OK because it was "just printed on paper?"
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #93
311. the majority
I an certain that a majority of people agree on this. It is a vocal and bullying few who are telling us to "move on" and mocking and ridiculing anyone who objects.
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #311
343. Hillary doesn't seem to agree.
Her own spokesperson said that it was just "an example of just good-natured fun between former rival camps". Are you saying that Hillary is insensitive to women's issues?
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #343
358. her hands are tied on this
Besides, it is not about Senator Clinton, and it is not about an individual being "offended" because they are too sensitive or have a thin skin, or something. Personalizing, trivializing and ridiculing social justice issues is a very modern thing, and was created and injected into the public discussion by right wing propaganda think tanks. It sounded so nuts and odd back 30 years ago or so, when extremist hate-mongers on the radio first started spouting this stuff. I could not imagine then that this thinking would become mainstream and that we would hear it from Democrats.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #73
158. fired
He should be fired. Then it would be over, and no one would be "harping" on anything.

Had a Republican done this, we would be citing it as evidence of their arrogance, contempt and of their sexism, and their adolescence and unfitness for public office. We would be right.
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RedCappedBandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #28
52. To make people laugh?
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #52
56. What were they laughing it? (Hopefully you're not really that dense.)
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RedCappedBandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #56
68. They were laughing at stupid drunken humor
not exactly appropriate behavior, but I think this is getting blown out of proportion.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #68
74. All stupid drunken humor is not equal - what DeeDee says is just plain true...
Like it or not, he meant to demean. THAT'S why it's creepy.
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RedCappedBandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #74
77. I don't think so
We all do stupid, spur of the moment things.
I highly doubt he had any intentions other than getting a rise out of a bunch of drunk people at a party.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #77
98. Lol - WHY did they think it was funny? Because he was turned on by Hill, or...
...because he was putting her down??

Hopefully, you don't think it's okay to put women down by grabbing their body parts.
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RedCappedBandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #98
110. I don't.
I simply feel people are looking too far into this. Humor is often "offensive" .. but I don't think people usually intend it to be so. People just laugh at offensive shit, for some reason. Why do you think shows like Family Guy are so popular?
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #110
120. Well, I get why DeeDee wrote this...
There's a certain blindness about putdowns toward women in this culture.
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RedCappedBandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #120
139. I understand the point of the article
I just don't think stupid drunken humor is *intended* to denigrate people (even if it happens to anyway). If that insinuation were true, I'd be more concerned, but I don't see people in that light.
If every disrespectful joke was an active attempt to hurt someone, I'd have even LESS faith in humanity (in which case I would probably have to off myself)
But hey, I definitely could be wrong regarding this guys intentions.
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #98
117. How do watch non-G rated movies without getting extremely outraged every five minutes?
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #117
122. I'm not the slightest bit "outraged" - just trying to explain to you meatheads....
...the problem DeeDee is talking about. Oh well, maybe when you grow up a little.
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RedCappedBandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #122
125. So it's alright for you to sling insults around
at people who disagree with you, but it's morally wrong for drunk people to make dumb jokes at parties. gotcha.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #122
166. I appreciate your effort
Sorry to see you are getting a hard time about this. Thanks for trying.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #98
143. Some here think because it was "Cardboard" it wasn't real.. Too much Video Games, maybe?
:eyes:
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hendo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #143
259. too much video game?
was it a digital Hillary? If it were digital, there are far worse things they could have done to her.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #52
173. this type of humor
Groping a woman, as a joke - and it is weirder and more telling that it is "only cardboard" - is an insult to all women, and is about power and humiliation, not "humor."

That sort of "humor" has been used by the dominant group against all oppressed people through the ages. It is not benign or neutral, or "just a joke."

Saying he didn't intend it as an insult makes it worse. That could be true, which means he is completely at sea - hopelessly ignorant and immature - and should not be in the public eye or associated with the administration.

I am sick of the "boys will be boys" arrogance, the "just having fun" bullshit. That is the sort of people who have been running the country for the last 8 years, and we have abundant evidence as to just where all of these "jokes" can lead, in the prisons and detention centers.

It isn't funny. I am not laughing. There is something very sick and disturbing about this type of humor.

Fire him.

Everyday people get fired for much less.
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #173
175. Who do you think was running the country the 8 years before Bush?
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #175
211. again, so what?
What does President Clinton have to do with this? Every single public official could be sexist and it would still be wrong.
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #211
218. Well, you said that this was too similar to the Bush frat-boy and we didn't need that anymore....
I'm saying Clinton was a fine President even if he was the king of frat-boy behavior. So why fire this guy who's doing stuff a million times less creepy than Clinton?
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #218
234. right
We don't need anymore of that behavior either, in my opinion.

I find groping a cardboard cutout and thinking that it is funny much creepier then someone having a consensual affair.
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #234
237. Really? A Blowjob in the oval office is less offensive? The cigar? Blue dress?
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 09:51 PM by mwei924
Alrighty then.
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hendo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #237
260. That cigar
had it comming, i tells you.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #237
328. comparisons
We are not comparing here. You are. Since what President Clinton did was in your view worse, therefore we should not speak about this, you are saying, or we should say less, or we should agree with you.
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #328
338. How many here were calling for Clinton getting "fired" though?
Probably very few. Because it's the other side that cares about this bullshit.
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 06:32 AM
Response to Reply #234
290. What about when Clinton was denying the affair and he and all his
spokespersons were denigrating Lewinski and saying she was imagining it and was a stalker? That was the REALLY creepy part.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #290
327. agreed
I agree completely.
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RedCappedBandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #173
200. What's it about when a woman displays the same behavior?
:shrug:

You do bring up good points in your post, and I see where you're coming from. People have a tendency to laugh at one another, often at their own expense.. But I just don't think people really intend to be hurtful when they do dumb shit like this.

"Saying he didn't intend it as an insult makes it worse. That could be true, which means he is completely at sea - hopelessly ignorant and immature - and should not be in the public eye or associated with the administration."

This is a good point, though.

I don't think "boys will be boys" is necessarily arrogance, though. People are just weird.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #200
215. 30 years ago
30 years ago, in a relatively lower level management job, we would get fired for this.

Now, we could have said "hey we are just having fun and why are people making a big deal about it?"

Instead we took this attitude - we are supportive of women advancing in this business, committed to their success, and these "sex" jokes are demeaning and intimidating, intended to signal women that they are inferior and had better know their place, and we are not going to tolerate that environment here."

Done deal. No need for any drama.
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hendo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #28
157. he intended to get hammered
by the looks of the photo, he succeeded.
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ben_meyers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. And what do you call Bill using Monica?
Love, or just a receptacle?
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. I have no qualms about answering that - he was using her as a receptacle...
...why the hesitation to answer my question?
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. Bill and Monica were consenting adults. NT
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. I don't know if cardboard can consent.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #27
36. Non-issue. The point is that it was intended to humiliate and degrade. NT
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #36
49. Hillary doesn't appear to be claiming either.
Maybe other people shouldn't try to speak for her. Since that was a cardboard cutout of HILLARY, not you.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #49
54. So what?
Sexual Harassment claims are often based on other things than the subject being harassed individually.

Burning crosses or nooses are used to intimidate without a body in on on them.
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #54
66. He wasn't threatening violence or intimidating women.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #66
75. So if it were a drunk McCain staffer with a noose around a carboard Obama there'd
be no issue?
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #75
88. Noose= violent threat. Get it?
The Secret Service would do all the bitching for us.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #88
92. But it's only a cardboard figure at a drunken party.
Right?
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #92
107. I would let the Secret Service be the judge of that.
If a bunch of McCain staffers were just partying with an Obama cutout or even doing weird things, I'd say the same thing "Wow, that looks stupid. But seriously, who cares?"
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #107
113. Yeah, I'll bet you would. NT
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #92
145. "Oh...I'm only a Cardboard Dolly" ...I dance out there in your dreams...
you can grope me, jack off on me or even through eggs...but, "I'm only a cardboard dolly...here for the pleasure of YOU!

She's the wife of a two-term President and the new Secretary of State and a former Senator of the US...

but...she's only a "cardboard dolly" just to make fun of as you will.

:eyes:
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hendo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #54
264. how kind of you
to get offended for Hillary. I'm sure she appreciates that.

Seriously, its over, its time to move on.

People need to stop demanding thier pound of flesh.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #19
57. What does that have to do with Meyer's article? I don't get the connection...
:shrug:
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #57
131. He was just trying to avoid my question - which he STILL hasn't answered. :)
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #5
285. ooooooo



You just ended that argument.
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
8. So she must be one of those "Impeach Clinton" folks right?
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gravity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
9. Let's save the outrage for some real issues
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 07:14 PM by gravity
Jon Favreau's actions were stupid and he should apologize, but there doesn't need to make this a whole scandal that could end his career. It was a cardboard cut out at a party meant as a joke. So what?
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Gin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #9
30. I agree with Dee Dee Myers.......it is more than a story about a card board
cut out....why did they have it at all at the party? Because they "Like" her? NO!!
He was denigrating the woman it represented, and it shows his lack of respect for females in general.

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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #9
163. and a male doesnt see denigrating female as a real issue. i believe, that is the very issue
meyers is bringing up
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
11. Uhm, okay, it's a juvenile thing to do
Almost as bad as Michael Savage (n Wiener) groping wax figures of females. But there is a difference between a cardboard cutout and the person the cutout represents. I'm not sure why Myers is in such high dudgeon over Favreau, but as she is clearly aware of some of the other sexist behavior directed at Clinton and to her person (as opposed to a piece of cardboard), does she have a list of similar columns calling out John McCain? After all, he just chuckled when one of his supporters asked him to his face "How do we beat the bitch?" in reference to Clinton.
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
13. Oh, Dee......you should talk

Spare me


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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
15. A 27 year old who has been selected as an HONOR to Be Obama Speechwriter behaves like "The Chimp"
Obama can write his own stuff or wait to hire someone new if he's too busy. This guy needs to be FIRED..ASAP. He's an idiot Frat Boy. Maybe he wrote a few good speeches for Obama and Obama "owes him" but, it's time for Obama to throw him out.

BTW...I was not a Hillary Clinton supporter for President. It's about the Frat Boy Stuff that this MAN should have known better about...
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cally Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #15
105. Thank you for posting this....I completely agree with Meyers on this
I was trying hard to not think too hard about Obama's speechwriter thinking it's just so funny to pose for a picture groping the future Secretary of State. I'm so disgusted by the belief that it's just sooo funny to sexualize any woman. It's degrading and offensive.
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Uzybone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
16. Dee Dee Myers is an idiot for this
how many times did she stand ramrod defending Bill Clinton and now she is all in arms about a guy goofing around with a cardboard cut out. Nice that she can also read his mind and find out his intention.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. Attack the "Messenger" and not the "Message?" Straw Person Argument...
Disgusting that that's the best you can do.
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Uzybone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #22
37. both the messenger and message are stupid
its high hypocrisy for hardcore Clintonites to act as if this was a major crime by Favreau. They sat by and defended him while he was humiliating the real woman, but now its the end of the world because a guy was fooling around with a cardboard cutout.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #37
46. See reply #41 about this...n/t
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Traveling_Home Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
18. Absolutely +1 nt

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kiva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
24. K&R n/t
Deedee is spot on.
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Kajsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
31. It was dumb, juvenile
and he should apologize
even if he was plowed at the time.

Both guys look drunk.

Imagine if that had been a cutout of Michelle Obama
- heads would fall.

It was a dumb thing to do.

:(
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #31
41. What's amazing is that it's put out as "adolescent hi-jinks." He's 27 Years Old! Sheesh!
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 07:27 PM by KoKo01
Are American Males now considered to be adolescents when they are almost 30 years old? AND...chosen as speechwriter for the PRESIDENT? This is CHIMP STUFF...RW EVANGELICALS & NEOCONS who WROTE BUSHIES SPEECHES FOR EIGHT YEARS...FGS! Now we get ANOTHER ONE? :eyes: AND...a GROPINATOR SWIGGING?
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Kajsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #41
62. KoKo01 I wish it wasn't so,
"Are American Males now considered to be adolescents when they are almost 30 years old? "

it depends on the individual.

-unfortunately some are! Fortunately, many are NOT.

:)
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kiva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #41
87. Yes, KoKo, this is one of the things that bothers me.
He's not a teenager, he's 27 years old with a responsible job. I like what DeeDee says about this, and about the accommodations she had to make when she was just four years older. Bottom line is that he's either mature enough for the job or not.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #87
128. And, there are kids serving in two wars in Afghanistan and Iraq......
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 08:02 PM by KoKo01
younger than this 27 year old who can "cut up" and post his irreverance on his "Face Book" site.

AYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
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cbayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
39. Copyright rules.
Please review the rules on posting copyrighted information. In general, you need to keep it to about 4 paragraphs.

Thank you,

cbayer
DU Moderator
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #39
64. Sorry...I'll try to edit...
thanks,
koko
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
42. Grabbing nonconsenting boobies is wrong, even for cardboard boobies, but...
The "white hood" analogy may be a bit flawed. A lot of people clown around like this with cardboard figures. I doubt we'll find anyone of earned character who's qualified to cast the first stone here.

Dude should apologize and we should all move on to serious thoughts.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #42
146. Do folks in the Presidents Inner Circle "Speechwriters" usually post on "Face Book"
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 08:52 PM by KoKo01
their "Clowning around gropinating cardboard figures" of a Secretary of State, Senator, Wife of two-term President, graduate of Wellesley and Yale Law and wife of Governor of a State?

Mabe that guy really thinks he's HOT SHIT to go that far. :eyes:
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
43. James Carville on CNN commenting on the grope-gate outrage
Video: It's a piece of cardboard, stupid.


:rofl:



Report: Obama's transition team said Favreau apologized, Hillary accepted, issue over.

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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #43
47. Wow, Carville actually made sense.
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Mushroom Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #47
174. Really?
They all sounded like dirty old men. a-huck a-huck I was embarrassed for them.




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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #174
178. Carville has the biggest hard-on for Hillary, and HE thinks this is stupid.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #178
303. Exactly, because a woman in POWER (POWERFUL) can not be a victim- especially as a cardboard likeness
The "VICTIM" type outrage is oh so familiar when it comes to HRC but still Abso- f**king-lutely senseless and stupid. :crazy:
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #303
359. agreed
It is not Senator Clinton that is the victim so much. I don't think that is what most of us are saying, ShortnFiery.

Were it a matter of defending the poor weak little woman, or of being prudish, I would agree with you. I am criticizing the arrogance of the guy, and the defenses of him here that rely on right wing themes and debate tactics.

I don't think this is "victim outrage" but rather it is about arrogance and bullying, and tolerance of that among Democrats.
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greguganus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
50. Have him do an ad for recycling cardboard. n/t
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bobd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
53. Oh big fucking deal.
What the hell is this nation coming too? Outrage at this? Ridiculous. Just completely ridiculous.

IT'S A FUCKING PIECE OF CARDBOARD AND THEY'RE HAVING A FUCKING LAUGH. GET OVER IT ALREADY.
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #53
60. This what is said to black people who don't think N-word jokes are funny.
Just FYI.

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bobd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #60
69. Apples and oranges. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.
Just FYI.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #69
78. Only because you have a double standard . NT
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bobd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #78
96. And you say that because you are overly sensitive to some issues and not others
How anyone can equate touching a piece of fucking cardboard with calling someone a racial epithet is beyond me.

IT'S A FUCKING PIECE OF CARDBOARD. IT'S NOT A HUMAN BEING. CARDBOARD! CARDBOARD! GET IT?
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #96
106. I didn't make that equation.
But are you saying a paper noose on a cardboard Obama a drunken party would be no problem?
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #96
235. racism, sexism, homophobia: sending demeaning messages
You think it's not a message because it's cardboard?

I bet you think a burning cross is just a "fucking piece of wood on fire."

Actions have meanings, send messages. While they all aren't equivalently aggressive, they are still meant to demean and humiliate.

You don't see that?



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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #69
208. Sexism has nothing to do with racism? WRONG!!!!!!
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #60
80. Really? I see more outrage by white folks over the word than I
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 07:44 PM by Kahuna
ever see from black people. So, poor example. The truth is, we're used to being disrespected from time to time. It goes with the territory. Still we manage to carry on. Try it.
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Uzybone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #60
83. Bullshit
Comparing goofing around with a cardboard cutout to racist jokes is very revealing about your thought process. That is just ridiculous.
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #83
230. it is about the message being sent: humiliation
you seriously don't see that?


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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
61. So he has the hots for Hill... BFD...
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 07:35 PM by Juniperx
Dumb kid... I'm sure he's learned a lesson... and I'm sure it's not worth all this outrage.

A little groping can be a good thing.

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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #61
72. He is 27 YEARS OLD! He shouldn't know better ...being CHOSEN as Speech Writer for
Obama? Is this the kind of person you want writing speeches for Obama? What will he do next? Hang his dick out getting folks to autograph it? :shrug: He's a Loose Cannon/Liability to Obama. Obama needs to dump this man quick! He's trouble down the road.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #72
82. Jesus... I guess you never made a mistake in your life...
And you have a killer crystal ball too! Wowsers.

:eyes:
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #82
95. When you are a Presidential Speechwriter...there's NO ROOM for that kind of Mistake...
I have no idea how old you are...but your reply seemed so clueless, I imagine you are very young and have no sense of historical implications of having a speechwriter who is a preening, vanity oriented gropenator of a person who has been chose Secretary of State of the US who is a former Senator and Wife of a TWO TERM DEM PRESIDENT...plus a former First Lady of the Governor of Arkansas.

:eyes:
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bobd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #95
103. Do you mean there's no room for touching cardboard when you're a presidential speech writer? LOL nt
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #95
112. According to Obama and Hillary, there IS room for that kind of mistake.
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 07:51 PM by Kahuna
You forget, Hillary MARRIED that, "preening, vanity oriented gropenator."
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #112
124. Well then ...Obama CHOSE a Speechwriter who "Gropinates Cardboard Cut Outs!"
so THERE...BACK ATTCHA! :D
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #124
127. He just wanted Hillary to feel at home...
:)
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #95
129. Ha! Try again...
I'll give you a hint, Caroline Kennedy and I were born the same year ;) And I personally know a past presidential speech writer.

This is 2008, not 1968. Some of the old school ways need to die... crucifying someone for something so petty like this is bullshit. I'm sure a word from the man himself, and this kid will be a star team player. No need to throw him under the bus for an idiotic, nothing stunt like this. If Hillary had a problem with it, I might reconsider, but a bunch of self-righteous DUers are not going to sway my opinion on this. It means nothing.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #129
132. Okay...then how do you freel about Frat Boy Bush...? Rove?
Put the same shoes on their feet.
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hendo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #132
265. do they grope cardboard cut outs?
I think I missed something. and i still want an appology for further up in this thread.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #132
319. WTF does this strawman have to do with the conversation at hand?
Honestly!
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #95
136. I never knew that speechwriters were the public face of the administration
or had what political scientists would call "leverage" on issues of gender equality. Speechwriters are supposed to write an effective message for the President. They don't even get to put their own name on it. This only "reflects on Obama" because people like you keep bringing it up to make that point. If we'd all just agree that it was a dumb thing for him to do, call him a prick and move on, any controversy generated by this issue would be swept away.

I don't know if you've noticed, but our economy is hemorrhaging like a harpooned whale, there are 200 workers setting a fine example for this whole country by standing up for themselves and becoming a focal point for everything that's wrong with our financial system, and we've still got plenty of people dying in two wars (one of which has a very close friend of mine fighting in it right now). Yet so many people just want to talk about what a dick this dude is. You know what? Maybe he is. Maybe there's a 99% chance that he's a total, irredeemable jackass. But that's not important right now. History is replete with people like that who have nevertheless executed their jobs well. Right now, his job is to write good speeches that will help our incoming President convince people to follow his policies that will hopefully get things moving the right way in this country for the first time since I was 13 years old. All of that is far more important than one idiot and a cardboard likeness of his political opponent.

But apparently we can't talk about those other things until everybody gets their ya-yas out over this.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #136
148. You think this 27 year old Gropinator has a broad understanding of America in Financial Crisis?
You think?
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #148
152. I'm asking if *you* have that understanding
This fellow apparently does have some semblance of one, otherwise Obama wouldn't have asked him to be a speechwriter.

Also, as for not understanding things, you do realize that we had a "Gropinator" leading a Democratic administration for eight years, right? And you realize that said Gropinator is the husband of the injured party in this particular incident? Glass, houses, stones and all...
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #152
165. If a Blowjob doesn't get someone fired, then this shouldn't.
Let's see, a stained blue dress with DNA evidence vs. facebook picture with cardboard.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #152
183. You want another one as Speechwriter for new President...who posts his stuff on "FaceBook?"
Is that what you are saying? :shrug:
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #183
195. I'm saying it doesn't bother me
See, my outrage gradient seems to be working in one direction and yours in another. I am not upset with Favreau, therefore I can choose whether or not to be upset with Clinton's antics of the old days without being a hypocrite. You, however, are mad at Favreau and think he should be fired for being, "a Gropinator". So, unless you are willing to say that President Clinton should have either resigned or been thrown out of office in the 90's for being exactly that, then it's *you* who is applying the double standard, because you are saying it's wrong for one person to do something to an image of a woman but it's less wrong (or not wrong at all, your pick) to do the same thing to a living, breathing human being.

So, were you loudly railing for Clinton's impeachment and conviction in 1998? Did you tell everybody that he should have resigned just for being a lecher? What was it? Because, if you supported Clinton then, you're being a huge hypocrite right now. Otherwise, I can at least give you points for consistency even though I disagree with you about Favreau.
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #195
221. I never understood why people freak out over this..
..but then condemn Republicans who do the same to Bill Clinton. It's like you either care about Clinton's blowjob and this picture, or you care about neither.

I don't care about either personally.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #221
332. no one is doing that
Who is "freaking out over this but then condemning Republicans who do the same to Bill Clinton?" Them damned "pc" liberals?

My question would be why defenders of this sort of behavior freak out when people object to it.
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ContinentalOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #61
279. OMG, that picture!
:rofl:

Now Lemmy will never be a Presidential speechwriter. :evilgrin:
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #279
362. I know...
Sadly, he had such promise! LOL!!

I love that picture. Funny thing is, my boyfriend loves it too... he considers it an honor to have had Lemmy grab his woman's boobage :)
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
70. He fucking apologized!
Damn!

Did he lie and people died?
Did he wag a finger at us and lie about it?

Jeeze!

Michelle Obama didn't run for anything. she is not a politician.
Politicians are derided and humiliated each and everyday by comics
and cartoonists.

This is really more than is required....

and I say that as a woman and the mother of daughters.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #70
76. He's TROUBLE DOWN THE ROAD! He doesn't have any respect for anyone
to do what he did. Obama doesn't need the grief this guy is going to cause him down the road...even if he's a "crack speech writer." He's probably ON CRACK if he abused his new found privileges like he did in that photo antics he posted on "My Face Book." Geeze... I thought we were electing GROWN UPS this TIME ROUND! :eyes:
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #76
79. How is abusing priveleges? For all we know, that picture was taken a while ago..
..but his friend just uploaded it recently.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:43 PM
Original message
Drama much?
:eyes:
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #76
84. Pathetic and desperate. People who don't care:
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 07:43 PM by ProSense
Hillary, Obama and James Carville

James Carville on CNN commenting on the grope-gate outrage

Video: It's a piece of cardboard, stupid.


Report: Obama's transition team said Favreau apologized, Hillary accepted, issue over.


Commentary: Clinton changes her tune on sexism

If you're so concerned about Hillary, maybe you should write a letter to her and demand that she take up the case on behalf of the piece of cardboard.

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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #84
89. I'm not concerned about HIllary. I don't like the attitude of someone in the Obama team.
Get over your thought police self.
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #89
94. The WTF is all this bullshit outrage?
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #94
99. If you don't like it hit the ignore button. NT
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bobd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #99
108. And if you don't like it you can do the same. nt
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #89
97. "Report: Obama's transition team said Favreau apologized, Hillary accepted, issue over." Wait
was my comment posted to you?

Get over it. Obama isn't concerned about this.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #97
102. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #76
135. Favreau wasn't elected to anything, so he's not the grown up that we elected.
Bill Clinton, who we did elect, is the one who humiliated his wife publicly.
Did she need that grief? cause she still has him around.
Perhaps you need to let her know that he's going to be trouble down the road.

I told my daughters that if their men ever cheats on them, to dump 'em...
cause that is when the issue of respect and humiliation becomes the issue.

We can't have it all ways.
We can't on the one hand demand to be treated like a man might be in a political arena,
and on the other hand cry because of what someone did with cardboard likeness of
someone who is supposed to be tough and tested.

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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #135
187. Obama chose him...and he didn't respect his position. He's trouble down the road...
Obama needs to get rid of him. He doesn't respect the enormous job he was given as "Speechwriter to the President of the US." Haven't we had enough of this disrespect and frat boy antics by the Bushbots for eight years? :shrug:
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #187
196. Obama is not getting rid of him. No matter how many times you say that. n/t
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #187
207. LOL, I'm sure Obama really values your insightful political judgment on who will be problematic..
..at some vague point in the future.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
100. "College Suspends Four Students Over Obama Display"
"Four George Fox University students have admitted to hanging a cardboard cutout of Sen. Barack Obama from a tree last week, the Oregonian reports. The students face long-term suspension ..." http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #100
109. But... but... but it's only a carboard figure!
...
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #100
126. Right, same thing.
Moronic.

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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #100
137. Thanks For Posting That Link So Everyone Can See Hypocrisy in Action
Cardboard Obama hangers: suspended, and it's 100%, universally agreed these are jerks, with many saying the school didn't come down hard enough.
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hendo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #100
268. odd
no one gets suspended when they burn a body in effigy. They burned quite a few Al Gore's in effigy at UW-Madison back in 2000.
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lukasahero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #100
295. THANK YOU! eom
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ErinBerin84 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
104. it may not be a laughing matter, but I don't think it's worth getting fired over.
I like Myers ok, but it's certainly not the first time I've disagreed with her.
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Gwendolyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
116. Jon Favreau kind of looks like Ben Affleck.
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RetroLounge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
130. Oh god, think of the (cardboard) Children!
:eyes:

RL
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Thickasabrick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #130
142. LOL nt
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Richard D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
133. Drunken party
Acting out. Stupid yeah, but really, BFD.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
134. Being crucified for this single photo is nuts
There ARE some extenuating circumstances here.

Firstly, did he KNOW he had his hand in the breast area of Hillary's cutout?

Secondly, did he KNOW he was having his picture taken at that exact moment?

And third, was he AWARE of the fact that he was smashed and doing something stupid?

And I challenge ANYONE here to account for ALL their "moral transgressions" while under the influence of legally purchased alcohol.

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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #134
140. Ummm...He posted it on his "FACE BOOK" site! Hand on Boobs and all...
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 08:17 PM by KoKo01
:eyes: He did it to show off... 27 years old and he get's a "hard on" over being a frat boy. Reminds me of the one we are shipping off on Jan 24th.
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ErinBerin84 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #140
144. I guess this probably doesn't even matter
but has it even been established if it was his facebook, or was it a tagged picture? Don't get me wrong, I think it was stupid (but again, I've said I don't agree that he should be fired for it),but I honestly don't know. I might have missed it.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #140
149. OK. Well, if he posted it himself, then guilty as charged
It's fairly obvious he wanted it to look like that.
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Thickasabrick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
141. This lady seriously needs to chill. It was a stupid, imature gesture
that in no way was intended to humiliate or denigrate anyone. This is just becoming insane.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #141
150. You don't know who Dee Dee Myers is, do you? n/t
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #150
151. Here's Dee Dee groping a real Bill Clinton
Why is she hiding her hand?


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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #151
154. The hand does not go to the boob...and the other is filled with food...so what's your point?
:shrug: It's a father, daughter hug. DeeDee was very young in that campaign. Early 20's I believe.
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #154
160. How do you know? Were you there?
She was 29 there.... I think you need to let this crap go

It's getting obsessive compulsive and reveals more about you
than anyone else. He apologized to Hillary, she accepted, story over,
but you want blood.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #160
167. Umm...you posted the photo...it's there.......to see.
:shrug:
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #167
168. I asked where Dee Dee's hand was? Not Bill's
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 08:56 PM by Ichingcarpenter
We all know about Bill.

What does your husband or boyfriend think about it?
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hendo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #168
270. oo oo, i know what i think
I know what that smirk on his face means.

:hide:
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Thickasabrick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #150
231. No....I really don't.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
147. jeeeeeezzzzz
nwmhtt
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
161. Dee Myers is a laughing matter.
She's reappeared once in the past 8 years, just long enought to try to sell some stupid book.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #161
169. She was a consultant for Dems on MSNBC throughout the Campaign...
Maybe you don't have cable, don't watch MSNBC/NBC. But, she was there.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #169
171. She's similar to Torrie Clark and Dana Perino.
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 09:13 PM by TexasObserver
I watched MSNBC throughout the election. But I would not have watched her, because she's never had an insightful political view.

Come on, she's Dana Perino. Same lack of substance.
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ErinBerin84 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #161
176. all I remember of her recently
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 09:13 PM by ErinBerin84
Was her promoting her book "Why women should Rule the World" (which....come to think of it...sounds a bit sexist...), which Mika always LOVVVED the title of (maybe this is why she is writing an "advice book for women"...bleh ;) ;her writing an article in the late summer about how McCain has it rough because the media is in the tank for Obama, and her saying that Sarah Palin did well on the post-Gibson interview "panel"..even Torrie Clark was like "Um...no.."
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #176
181. Such an epitome of credibility.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #181
188. Yes, Dee Dee is completely uncredible.
What kind of adult goes by "Dee Dee?"
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #176
185. Aren't DeeDee Myers and Torrie Clark the same person?
If Mika liked her, that's reason enough to doubt she has anything to say.

Now I remember the title. What a stupid idea for a book. Can you imagine anyone writing "why men should rule the world"? Or Chinese? Or Christians?
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #185
189. Tori Clarke had that "Lipstick on a pig" book.
Equally stupid title though, I can see where you'd get confused.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #189
191. Torrie, Dana Perino, and Dee Dee all look and sound the same.
blah blah lie lie lie blah blah lie
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #191
308. Also, all THREE are equally vapid and spoiled.
:thumbsdown:
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BlancheSplanchnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
164. AMEN!! I've hated this double standard for ages!!
Racial hate, gay hate, and any other example gets intense public scrutiny and outrage while sexism is always swept under the rug. If a woman should attempt to speak out against it, she is punished with contempt, ridicule and the ubiquitous accusations of whining.

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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #164
177. Word...
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BlancheSplanchnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
184. to ALL who don't GET the sexism, I ask you to....
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 09:23 PM by BlancheSplanchnik
take gender out of the equation completely.

How did you feel about the monkey-doll with an Obama hat?
If you were just fine with that, because it's just a doll, don't be so hypersensitive, then fine, at least you're consistent.

BUT if you were righteously outraged at that example of crude, smug RACISM, but can't see the CRUDE, SMUG SEXISM in this example and that pointing out sexism here is just ridiculous over-reaction so STFU already......

then you are a sexist.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #184
192. "How did you feel about the monkey-doll with an Obama hat?"
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 09:14 PM by ProSense
Was Hillary dressed like a monkey? How idiotic.


It was a piece of cardboard with two guys cozying up to it. The outrage is beyond moronic.




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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #192
197. The think it's more about animal cruelty
against Pumas
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #197
294. oh shit
:spray:
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BlancheSplanchnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #192
214. inability to draw paralells...OK.
I guess not all progressives are of above average intelligence.

}(
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #214
222. All the people bitching about a facebook pic, but excusing Clinton's blowjob prove that
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #222
331. no one is
No one is excusing President Clinton for anything.
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #214
224. Well, we can see that by your leaps of logic that
are an indication of your limited intelligence.
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dendrobium Donating Member (85 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
210. When will the Primaries end?
The guy did something silly and inappropriate. He has apologised. But that is not enough for the perpetually outraged. He must be fired and destroyed! It is even more insane coming from a woman who worked for Bill Clinton- the man who wrote the book on inappropriate behaviour.

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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
217. Thank you for a good post.
I share your views.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #217
220. Dee Dee Myers is an idiot
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 09:35 PM by ProSense
Imagine how different the reaction would be if an important aide to John McCain had been caught in similar picture featuring Michelle Obama?


Her logic is just as moronic as everything else being posted to support this phony outrage.

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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #220
239. Wrong. Just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
nt
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #239
242. Wrong, she's an idiot. I understand the photo
two young guys touching (kissing or groping, if you prefer) a piece of cardboard.

As a woman, I think the arguments and outrage are beyond ludicrous. They're disingenuous and moronic.


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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #242
243. That explanation shows, de facto, that you don't understand
what the problem is. Which is fine, but doesn't mean there's not a problem.


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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #243
248. I understand Bill's groping of a real woman
But not this.

What does your husband or boyfriend say about this?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #243
253. Yeah, there's a problem: phony outrage. n/t
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #220
284. I don't agree with you.
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kevinds13 Donating Member (176 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
229. So should everyone who's in a tasteless photo be fired?
Or should they be forced to apologize, realize their mistake, and be given a second chance?

Its a fucking cardboard cutout. Classless? Yes. Sexist? Yes. Illegal? No. Dumb? Yes. Termination worthy? Hell no.

I can guarantee he won't do it again and get away with it, but a one time joke should be allowed to slide.
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Tutonic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
240. What is this--Dee Dee's Hail Mary? Sorry Dee, but you ain't gettin
another turn with the Clinton's.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
250. Phew, I thought this was the writer of Swingers/director of Iron Man at first


but its not.
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
252. Poor, poor cardboard cutout.
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

I'm outraged about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Bring back the dunking stool and the pillory and the stocks for this heinous violation of huma-, er, cardboard cutout, dignity & rights RIGHT THE FUCK NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

:grr: :nuke: :grr: :nuke: :grr: :nuke: :grr: :nuke: :grr: :nuke: :grr: :nuke: :grr: :nuke: :grr: :nuke: :grr: :nuke: :grr: :nuke: :grr: :nuke: :grr: :nuke: :grr:


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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
256. undeniably sexist
I deny that the cardboard groping was sexist.
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
262. Happy kitties anyone?




I think they are cute and deserve a cardboard cut out of their own


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hendo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #262
273. I would pet them
but I don't want to get in trouble for petting a kitty cardboard cutout.
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #273
282. We can't have people oppressing all kitten-kind.
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
266. If nothing else, the "debate" on DU show how sexist this place still is
Would anyone grope the private part of an Obama cutout and consider this a joke?

Thanks for posting
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #266
272. "Would anyone grope the private part of an Obama cutout and consider this a joke?"
Cardboard has "private parts"?

OMG.

:rofl:

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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #272
276. Hey, that chemically-treated paper & glue had feelings.
Why do you hate America? :shrug:

;(

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hendo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #272
278. yeah
how else did you think they were made? Maybe thats a conversation that you need to have with your parents ;)
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #266
307. Oh stop! You have no idea how "unfriendly" to women other machismo sites are.
Really, this place is "warm and fuzzy" compared to some of the more gun-nut sites I lurk at ...

I was in the US Army during the late 70s to mid 80s.

As such, I can say with conviction "I know sexism."

DU is NOT sexist ... in fact, for a multidimensional message board, it's pretty darn friendly to most - save for Republicans and Right Wing Conservatives.
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Celeborn Skywalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
280. I don't give a shit.
Like, at all. I mean, I really, really don't give a fuck. It's not sexist and it's not the same thing as the KKK.


Get over it.
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ContinentalOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
281. This is a sad day for Presidential speechwriters.
Why did this man have to tarnish the reputation of the proud profession that brought us great Americans like Pat Buchanan, Ben Stein, and Peggy Noonan? How can we ever bring respect back to the office of the Presidential speechwriter? :eyes:
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
283. It is certainly no laughing matter.
But it is also not worth all the "outrage."

It was stupid and wrong. Did he apologize?

Unfortunately, such shallow stupidity from one in his position calls into question his judgment and the truth of his--and by extension, Obama's--words.

He needs a spanking.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 02:02 AM
Response to Original message
286. Myers' analogies don't hold weight
Edited on Tue Dec-09-08 02:03 AM by Hippo_Tron
If this had been an incident in a long series of sexist demeaning behavior from Favreau then I would be the first to suggest that Obama needs to show him the door. But this was, as far as I know, an isolated instance of bad judgment on Favreau's part. People do make mistakes.

The reason it would be different if it was a McCain staffer is because the Republican Party and the McCain/Palin campaign have a history of racist, sexist, and demeaning behavior. If the Republicans didn't have a 40 year history of deliberately acting like intolerant bigots, we would probably cut them a little slack for the occasional instance of racially insensitive behavior.
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 06:19 AM
Response to Original message
289. I think this is an example why it was a mistake to appoint Ms. Clinton to SOS
The Clintons have their cronies who are loyal to them, not Obama. Let us be clear: this article is the placing of a marker in an attempt to insulate Clinton from criticism (subtext: any criticism if her is sexist. See the entire campaign).

Let me also be clear - the act of groping the cutout may also be sexist. But one can decline to make a big deal of it. Ms. Clinton did so publically while having a crony do it through the back door. It is more proof that she is out for herself first, second and always.
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cap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 07:15 AM
Response to Original message
291. question for all those defending Favreau: If this is OK, what isn't?
What are the boundaries that must be respected, if this isn't the boundary? I am assuming that if you saw a similar picture of your wife, girlfriend, mother or child, you would take it as a joke. Right? If they or their friends were offended, you'd, of course, say, "Lighten up".

At what point, do you rise up and say this is a sexist treatment of a woman and can not be tolerated?

What else besides physical groping is off limits?

What are your limits for the sort of behavior that you won't tolerate for the women in your life?
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 07:19 AM
Response to Original message
292. Dee Dee needs to grow up.. and that Favreau guy needs to find another job..
When any one person in an adminsitration becomes the "news", they can no longer be in the background, doing their job..

He had a good job, but his infantile behavior proves that he's not ready for a grown up job :)
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
299. Dee Dee Myers needs to find some REAL reason to become incensed. This is embarrassing ...
to all of us. :crazy:
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
300. I've avoided this thread. I now find it has 300 replies.
Will you people get a fucking grip? It. Was. A. Cardboard. Fucking. Cutout. And the oppressor apologized to it.

I don't get it, because there's nothing to get. The only oppression is in the projections of those whose primary defense mechanism is outrage.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
314. That's goofy behavior, not sexist. The careless application of that term dilutes its true meaning.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #314
324. If that was a grope attempt, he missed badly.
I don't think it's nearly as clear-cut as some are imagining.
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slutticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
333. Wow. I thought the outrage about real tits was bad enough...but cardboard ones?
Edited on Tue Dec-09-08 07:19 PM by slutticus
what about the guy shoving the bottle in her face? What did HE intend?

Why isn't anyone focusing on the obvious phallic implication of the bottle and the pulling-on-the-hair gesture? :hide:


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name not needed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #333
341. Obviously they were gonna get it drunk and have their way with the cardboard.
Duh.
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
345. A Ridiculous Article on A Most Trivial Issue
And A Ridiculous Thread to boot!
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
347. The outrage industry runs on crap like this.
Their market is the vast legions of people who simply cannot *wait* to take offense, at anything, loudly. I'm amazed that so many people here are sucked in by this tabloid-ish garbage.
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nemo137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
349. It was jackassy and disrespectful
but I think it was born out of a long primary fight and an us v. them mentality, rather than him hating women. I think if, say, Richardson had fought on into June, there'd have been something done to a cut out or poster of him.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 02:54 AM
Response to Original message
353. ROFLMAO. Early in the primary, I wrote that Hillary is like the Mother Mary to her supporters.
So, when this dude groped her cardboard cut out breast he groped the Virgin Mary's tit! (gasp)

:rofl:

Lighten up! She is just a woman. And Obama is not Jesus in His second coming, either.
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davidthegnome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 05:19 AM
Response to Original message
354. Sorry, Myers has no credibility
A woman who is as outrageously and unashamedly sexist as Myers really has no place doing any finger pointing.

I'll admit the man's actions were juvenile, stupid, and I think it's amazingly stupid that they took a picture of it. However... it's cardboard. To suggest that someone should lose their job for groping an inaminate object is rather far fetched, in my opinion. Sure, HRC had the right to be outraged (but she isn't) - he apologized, she accepted the apology.

He was not "groping" HRC, he was groping an inaminate object, a piece of cardboard - and doing a poor job of it at that.
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Tommy_Carcetti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
357. But I think we all have to admit he was pretty good in "Rudy".
Oh, wait. I thought you meant this Jon Favreau.



http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0269463 /

My bad.
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Cid_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
361. A quick google search...
... about the author and anything she has to say gets bumped down to "World's Smallest Violin" levels. Seriously, how can she expect to be taken seriously.

Just a side note. Her book "Why Women Should Rule the World" is #50 in the bargain section of history on Amazon.
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