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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:41 AM
Original message
General: Military Needs To Fly Lower

The Massachusetts Air National Guard (ANG) is hoping to file a proposal with the FAA next spring that would lower the floor of their training flights from 2800 to 500 feet over the hills of western Maine and is using 9/11 to counter public opposition. Brig. Gen. Leon Rice told residents that the terrorist attacks of September 2001 showed the military was ill-prepared to defend against a low-level air attack and the pilots stationed in Vermont and Massachusetts who'd respond to those attacks need training. The last time the ANG sought to expand low-level training in Maine the proposal was rejected. But that was 1992. The 3,600-square-mile Condor Military Operation Area (MOA) is used by F-16 and F-15 drivers flying for the ANG out of the 104th Fighter Wing in Westfield, Mass., and 158th Fighter Wing in Burlington, Vt. The Guard has extended the public comment period to allow residents who just recently became aware of the proposal to chime in. Critics are concerned about the potential of noise, safety and quality of life issues affected by low-level maneuvers and Governor John Baldacci has called for a full environmental impact study. Rice has said that the military ultimately doesn't need the permission of local authorities, but rather sought to include state officials in its deliberations.
http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/moa_maine_condor_l...

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Having lived in range of these training flights I can tell you that 2800 feet is plenty close enough. When an F16 flies over at that height, dishes rattle and the ground shakes. Even if you're in the shopping mall with Christmas music blaring, you can feel and hear it. I can't imagine what a 500 foot flyover would be like.
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DonEBrook Donating Member (506 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
1. Haven't you ever been to a Thunderbirds demonstration?
Well they're like verrry loud. Hell, they sound like jet engines running full bore just 500 feet away!
:D
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. When you live near a National Guard station, you get it every day.
n/t
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Richard D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
2. I've been under a flyover . . .
. . . that was around or lower than 500 feet. Scared the shit out of me. You don't see it coming.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. You can't get your fingers in your ears fast enough. nt
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Cid_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. I think thats the idea...
;)
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csziggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
4. I used to get low level training flights over our farm
Thirty years ago when the area around here was comparatively sparsely populated we'd get military jets coming over our farm. I know nothing about jets so I don't know what kind they were - they had big scoops on the fuselage. And I can't estimate how low they were - but when they were flying through the shallow valley to the east of our 200' ridge, they would be below the treetops down the hill from us. Back then, most of the land around us was owned by hunting plantations and there were not a lot of houses right here.

I think they used our newly built barn as a landmark - they would come screaming overhead directly in line with the barn. Loud - Yes! Fortunately they came and left so fast they did not scare the horses Though sometimes the horses would jump at the noise, by the time the horses looked for the source, the jets were long gone.

Friends estimated that the jets were coming over at between 500 and 1000 feet above sea level. With our ridge, that would put them at 300 to 700 feet above ground. We thought they were probably sending training flights from both Eglin AFB outside of Panama City and Moody AFB near Valdosta - we'd be about halfway between the two.

Since the plantations have been split up in this immediately area, we no longer get those flights.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Probably F4s. nt
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guruoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
7. I've seen them fly lower than that while backpacking in the Smokies. n/t
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MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
9. my neighborhood was buzzed by an erratic propeller pilot doing less than 200 feet
kept wobbling and nearly sliding, and kept making 100 mph passes down the stream next to the neighborhood--then roaring over the houses themselves
...six times...
...on Sept. 11, 2008...
I hope the FAA made them eattheir license, laminate and all
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