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Obama Does Not Plan to End the US Occupation of Iraq

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Orwellian_Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 12:01 PM
Original message
Obama Does Not Plan to End the US Occupation of Iraq
This (Old News) Just In: Obama Doesn't Plan to End the Occupation

Posted by Jeremy Scahill, AlterNet at 7:44 AM on December 5, 2008.

The New York Times reports an "evolution" in Obama's plan for Iraq. But his campaign rhetoric and his Iraq plan were always at odds.

The New York Times is reporting an "apparent evolution" in president-elect Barack Obama's thinking on Iraq, citing recent statements about his plan to keep a "residual force" in the country and his pledge to "listen to the recommendations of my commanders" as Obama prepares to assume actual command of U.S. forces. "At the Pentagon and the military headquarters in Iraq, the response to the statements this week from Mr. Obama and his national security team has been akin to the senior officer corps' letting out its collective breath," the Times reported. "the words sounded to them like the new president would take a measured approach on the question of troop levels."

The reality is there is no "evolution."

Anyone who took the time to cut past Barack Obama's campaign rhetoric of "change" and bringing an "end" to the Iraq war realized early on that his Iraq plan boiled down to a down-sizing and rebranding of the occupation. While he emphasized his pledge to withdraw U.S. "combat forces" from Iraq in 16 months (which may or may not happen), he has always said that he intends to keep "residual forces" in place for the foreseeable future.

No matter how Obama chooses to label the forces he keeps in Iraq, the fact is, they will be occupation forces.



<snip>

Some may now accuse Obama of flip-flopping. The reality is that we need to understand what the words "end" "war" "residual" and "decisively" mean when we hear Obama say them.

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/110266/this_ (old_news)_just_in%3A_obama_doesn%27t_plan_to_end_the_occupation/
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. Is it an 'occupation' if the country's legitimate government wants a residual force to stay?
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Do you really think that the government in Baghdad is legit?
A government hand picked and installed by the US. Do you think any government's actions or responses are legit when they're done at the barrel end of a gun?

We simply need to pack up and go.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 04:03 AM
Response to Reply #2
19. Weren't they elected?
:shrug:
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zorahopkins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #19
32. There *ere Elected *ith An...
Edited on Sat Dec-06-08 11:50 AM by zorahopkins
*ell, I suppose you could say that they *ere elected.

The elections took place, of course, *hile a foreign po*er had a great number of occupying troops in Iraq.

So ho* fair do you think those elections *ere?

Note: In protest of the continuing occupation of OUR *hite House by the illegal and totally corrupt Bush/Cheney regime of thugs and cronies, I REFUSE to use the letter bet*een "V" and "X", and I urge you to do the same.
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Orwellian_Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. It's always legitimate
in the eyes of the occupiers, their sycophants and their apologists.

It is a war crime. Nothing less.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 04:05 AM
Response to Reply #3
20. Does that mean that Obama will be a war criminal if he keeps his campaign promise to keep a residual
Edited on Sat Dec-06-08 04:07 AM by Freddie Stubbs
force in Iraq?

Did the Democratic Party nominate, and the American people elect, a man who promised to commit war crimes?
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. Yes. n/t
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. yes and ditto n/t
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. Does that mean that we are all war criminals for voting for a man who promised to commit war crimes?
:shrug:
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. We are complicit.

Check out the Nuremberg war crimes trial. Knowledge of war crimes demands opposition.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. Which specific war crimes are we complicit of knowing about?
Is it a war crime to have troops stationed in a country if the internationally recognized government of that country wants us to keep a residual force there?
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. Last I saw the Iraqi people want us gone.
Edited on Sat Dec-06-08 11:46 AM by blindpig
The invasion was launched under false pretense.

The puppet government is imposed. They had about as much choice as we have.

Civilians have been killed by the thousands by 'Coalition" forces.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. What percentage of the Iraqi oppose Obama's plan to leave a residual force in Iraq?
Edited on Sat Dec-06-08 02:44 PM by Freddie Stubbs
:shrug:
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Cid_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 04:50 AM
Response to Reply #3
21. So now what?
What is your "perfect solution"? Go back and find everyone who was in charge before invasion and give them their old job back because they are "legit"? This comes off as snarky but Im really curious.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
4. HOLY CRAP! Did you see this quote in there from Samantha Power?
{snip - my bold}

In March, Obama advisor Samantha Power let the cat out of the bag for some people when she described her candidate's 16-month timetable for withdrawing U.S. "combat" forces as a "best case scenario." Power said, "He will, of course, not rely on some plan that he's crafted as a presidential candidate or a U.S. Senator." (After that remark and referring to Sen. Hillary Clinton as a "monster," Power resigned from the campaign. Now that Obama is president-elect, Power's name has once again resurfaced as a member of his transitional team.)

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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. Did you just get here recently?
People spent days during the primary when she said that shitting their pants over that quote. Because DUers are paranoid morons who can't comprehend anything which isn't a conspiracy theory centering around how evil all Democrats are. :eyes:
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. LOL, no all I remembered was the dumb Hillary "monster" thing
I hadn't heard the other stuff
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FriendlyReminder Donating Member (174 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
5. Come on! It is time to LEAVE!
I think the Iraqi's are just using us as 'free labor'. They can and should take care of themselves. Obama needs to face this reality or face the wrath of us who elected him in four years.
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enid602 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
6. UN
Obama has chosen an able Sec of St, and an able ambassador to the UN as well. Between the two of them, they should be able to make the case that it is in the WORLDs interest to get US troops out of Iraq ASAP, and replace them with UN troops. The UN troops wont be seen as imperialistic, nor will they feed growing militarism, sectional strife and civil unrest. The UN will be able to run the operation a good bit more efficiently (lower troop costs and theyre allowed to seek competitive bids for wartime contracts) and the global financial crisis will be less severe if the US is not so bogged down by continuing costs of occupying Iraq.
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Orwellian_Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. 'Able' to do what?
As relates to Iraq could you please give what you think to be Hillary's expert capabilities and explain how that will lead to the scenario you discuss?

She has been a cheerleader of the US invasion and occupation every step of the way which directly contradicts your wish.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
7. Alternet, counterpunch etc. always jump to wild conclusions, IMHO
I am not ready to buy into this anti-Obama stuff yet. He has been telegraphing that he will lay out his plan for getting out of Iraq after inauguration.
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Orwellian_Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Please stick to the issue
I'd like to hear your analysis of the issue rather than your opinion on personalities.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
9. OMG, we must still be occupying Germany and South Korea, then, too!!!
:sarcasm: :eyes:
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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
10. To the greatest page! nt
:hi:
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
11. Hey, but it's "All Good" when Obama stays in Iraq, doncha know?
:sarcasm:
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
13. Keeping lost wars going in Iraq and Afghanistan is now politically correct.
Wave flag, throw in a few stanzas of "God Bless America", and ship out the cannon fodder.
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #13
24. yes, amazingly if it was Bush stating he wanted to send 20,000
more kids to afghanistan, and keep the forces in Iraq at any level, people would be ballistic. but if its Obama, we are supposed to be good little dems and STFU.
same old stuff.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
16. The only candidates who wanted to take the troops completely out were
Kucinich and Edwards. If anyone had any illusions that Obama and Clinton wanted to take them all out, didn't listen to Obama and Clinton in the debates.
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Orwellian_Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. I know many
who have been deeply involved in the anti-war movement, such as it is, who believed, and still hold on to this belief, that Obama was/is going to end the occupation of Iraq. This despite all evidence to the contrary. It's difficult to explain how they came to think this as many of them did follow the campaign season very closely. I think often times folks hear what they want to hear.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #16
36. People hear what they want to hear and project their own beliefs onto their heroes
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Popol Vuh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
17. Obama is CFR (Council on Foreign Relations)
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #17
34. When did Obama join the CFR?
:shrug:
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
26. If we are not completely gone in 4 years, he will not be getting my vote for re-election.
I will vote for a true anti-war candidate then.

The Iraq OCCUPATION (not a war) needs to end NOW. Fuck Obama and his gradualist, centrist bullshit. And fuck his bullshit plan for MORE WAR in Afghanistan.
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. yes, completely gone in 4 years
or sooner. and I will also vote 3rd party, because at least I could live with myself.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. You obviously did not learn the lesson that Mr. Nader inadvertently taught
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tuckessee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
35. It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone who was paying attention.
Nor should they be surprised by his ramping up of the Afghanistan War or increased military activity against Pakistan and Iran.

If Democrats wanted an anti-war candidate then they should've chosen Kucinich. Instead they chose more war.

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rainman99 Donating Member (283 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. I can't believe I'm ticked off before he even takes office.
Someone better have a talk with him.
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