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People Like SUV's Because Detroit Advertisers Mindfuck Them Into Wanting Them

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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:09 AM
Original message
People Like SUV's Because Detroit Advertisers Mindfuck Them Into Wanting Them
Edited on Fri Dec-05-08 10:13 AM by cryingshame
Have you seen any car advertisements on tv enthusing over some car because of it's great gas mileage? Okay, except for the Prius?

Hell, do car ads in newspapers even LIST mileage? (Usually not)

When was the last time a tv ad for a car featured a guy having a symbolic orgasm because the car he's driving gets 55 mpg?

Fact is, SUV's were heavily marketed using sophisticated techniques. This isn't conjecture it's a proven fact.

The market for SUV's was created by Detroit, not the other way around by consumer demand.

And since Detroit doesn't have any fuel-efficient vehicles to offer now, they don't advertise them, hence people don't aggressively pursue them.

And there's every reason to believe if Detroit is forced to build some high mileage cars, they'll PURPOSELY either under-advertise them or plug them with subtle negative cues.

The only way to change our car industry is to look at the role advertising plays on what people demand.
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jpljr77 Donating Member (580 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
1. Congress is culpable as well.
Never forget the tax credit. Always remember the tax credit.
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DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #1
29. ABC News 2003: Fed Tax Break Encourages SUV Purchases (6000+ lbs)
Tax Breaks Help Small Business Buy Big SUVs, But Help for Hybrids May Vanish

Thanks to a generous tax credit, Karl Wizinsky is driving a very large vehicle these days a 2002 Ford Excursion.

"It doesn't hurt to have a larger vehicle, but I wouldn't say it's a requirement of my business," he said on a cell phone while driving the Excursion. "But I ended up saving $32,000."

This year, the perks of buying a large SUV if you're a small business owner got even bigger.

Congress recently passed a tax bill, as proposed in President Bush's economic stimulus plan, that offers a $100,000 tax credit for business owners who purchase any vehicle weighing 6,000 pounds or more when fully loaded.
(More at link)

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Hybrid/Story?id=97505&...


By the time I bought my Prius in 2007, there were no tax incentives for going green. When a tax break for fuel efficient cars existed, it was a paltry $4000 maximum. The 6000# tax break put tens of thousands back in the buyer's pocket for purchasing a big SUV.

In fact, the "over 6000# gas guzzler" tax break encouraged people from all lines of work, including real-estate agents, lawyers, consultants, and many others to purchase a luxury SUV (instead of a luxury automobile, which were not eligible for the same deductions). The 6000# tax break applied only to the largest and least fuel-efficient category of SUVs.

There are many, many more arguments against the over 6000# tax break, not the least of which is the effect on federal tax revenues. According to Taxpayers for Common Sense, the SUV tax loophole costs the federal government $1 billion for every 100,000 vehicles that businesses buy.

Never forget the tax credit. Always remember the tax credit.


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KakistocracyHater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #29
82. but but but but but
that's called the "Free Market"... :sarcasm: That pesky 'invisible hand'....
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jakefrep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #1
36. A tax deduction that existed in some fashion ever since...
...full-size trucks and SUV's were little more than glorified farm implements. And a tax deduction that isn't available to people who don't have a business use for the vehicle.
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
2. No, it's because most people are actually so fucking dumb they listen to advertisers
instead of using their brains.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. You are too arrogant to understand marketing and I'm sure at some point you've been sucked in
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. Too arrogant to understand it? You have no idea - I understand marketing entirely.
Marketing works because people are fucking stupid and easily led by the nose into being told what they like, instead of deciding for themselves.

Have I been sucked in? Yeah, when I was a kid. But then something magical happened - I grew up, with the help of some wise and intelligent people, and learned not to let others tell me what I like, or what I should buy, or to define myself by things and possessions.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. You don't understand marketing at all. It works not because people are stupid but it uses symbols
Edited on Fri Dec-05-08 10:20 AM by cryingshame
to communicate to our subconscious. Marketing doesn't even happen on an intellectual level.

And Marketing Psychology now understands how to reach those of us who think we're so fucking smart (like you) it's called guerilla marketing.

You've probably been sucked in as an adult without even knowing it.
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. If the marketers are able to discover how to manipulate, then we are able to see it.
You treat marketers like they are wizards or gods of some sort, able to reach into our brains and reprogram us with no conscious awareness on our parts.

They aren't that powerful.

If they can devise it, we can see through it. The problem isn't that marketers are wizards or gods - it's that they understand most people don't think, and instead they live at the base of their brain stem following their reptilian responses.

As in, let's say, card tricks - once you understand the card trick, it is no longer magical.

Please stop giving the marketers and advertisers so much power over yourself. You aren't a helpless victim, stuck for eternity under the oppressive thumb of the marketers - you have the brain power to resist.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #15
49. This is a test of how well you know how marketing works
Edited on Fri Dec-05-08 12:15 PM by nadinbrzezinski
Don't say you smoke, don't care if you either, but look closely at a box of Marlboro's.

Then come back to the class and tell us what the symbology is in that box.

I'd be amazed if you get it.

By the way, there is a similar mind trick with the series of escalade adds, as they are playing at that level too

By the way the subconcious mind does get the symbology

Once you understand it, it becomes easier to decode
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #49
70. Decodable -- that's a good word. If it's decodable, it's resistible.
Edited on Fri Dec-05-08 04:07 PM by Rabrrrrrr
Hell, even if it's not decodable, it's still resistible.

All it takes some brainpower and a bit of will to make one's own decisions.

Some people here are giving advertisers far, far too much power.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #70
74. Thanks for telling the class that you failed this test
so time to tell you what that means

The V means open legs, for sex, women's legs, so the promise is implied that a smoke will be that good. And yes, this works at the subconscious level. The same goes for a coke bottle, the form of the bottle is highly suggestive of a women... especially the classic bottles.. The Escalade commercials (especially the one with the woman caressing the leather) is full of sexual innuendo. Less the one with the guy talking about this is a hybrid. They are going after two different demographics The first, males,who to be crass think with one head above the other, and don't mean the one above shoulders, the second, believe it or not, women who like to see a nice looking male (sex again) as well as care for their kids, why the hybrid.

Why is this important to understand? Because sex is ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL FORCES IN THE ARSENAL OF THE ADVERTISER, SINCE REPRODUCTION IS A HUMAN DRIVE.

As to resistible... yes, to a point... but the people WRITING that add copy et al, have done quite a bit of research into human psychology.

You may poopoo it, but there is quite a bit of science behind it, and most folks are NOT aware what is being sent across to them... or in effect WHY they buy certain products and shun others. Why do you think companies spend so much money on advertising campaigns and human psychology? Ah yes, it can be resisted... and folks who WATCH a lot less Teevee than those who do are able to resist it better (see that pesky science you are poopooiing), The same goes for people who in general are not exposed to commercials.

Oh and in general people who have taken courses into the nature of advertising, and are given the code, are able to resist these efforts far better than most folks. Now if you have never been told what the code is, and are able to resist it... I am almost willing to bet you watch far less teevee than the average American.

And I know you doubt this... but the money spent on this should be enough to tell you that yes... this matters and mind fucking the potential consumer is the work of add copy writers, add makers, et al... and yes, they have quite a bit of power.

Now you want to be really scared? This science has advanced to the point that politicos will now be able to micro target populations and get people to vote for a certain candidate based on demographic info that you and I leave behind us like bread crumbs. That is the next step in marketing.
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #74
75. Dude, I'm not disagreeing with you at all about the power of advertising.
Edited on Sat Dec-06-08 09:12 PM by Rabrrrrrr
I don't know where you got the idea that I don't think there is power in advertising.

My only argument here is that the power of it only works on the uninformed and the ignorant; that there isn't anything magical about it, nothing ispo facto determinant in it.

Of course it's well funded and well-researched - because it IS so powerful.

But it is not unbeatable; a hypothesis which you yourself admit to in your post.

Not sure why you felt the need to lecture me on my own point, but thanks, anyway.


and p.s. - I never "told" any "class" that I "failed the test". I am EVER SO SORRY I didn't offer the classic explanation of the Marlboro box, but I don't smoke, don't have one handy, had no memory of what one looks like, and am far too busy to go out and try to find one to answer your question, which was a silly one to ask me anyway.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. Actually your posts made fun of the science
and you posted things like the followiing

7. No, you are a HAPLESS VICTIM! A VICTIM of the magical marketing Wizard Gods!



I do what you do - if I think I want something, I wait a day or more; the more expensive the item, the longer the delay. Unless I am out doing something intentionally for a real need, like buying socks or shoes, or changing the oil on my car, or grocery items.
You may have p

Here is more


Rabrrrrrr (1000+ posts) Fri Dec-05-08 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Well, then, we're all hapless victims of the Wizard Gods of Marketing. I'm buying an SUV!

And drinking Coke!

From now on, I'm defining myself by the products I identify with.

So with those pots, of course you seemed NOT to believe in their power

As to the uniformed I will make the assumption... you don't watch that much teevee... or are subjected by it regularly

Have a good day...
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #76
78. No, you need to look at them more closely - I don't believe in the UNSTOPPABLE power
Edited on Sat Dec-06-08 09:22 PM by Rabrrrrrr
or that their power is automatic.

And I was making fun - that's something called SARCASM and INSULT - of those people who think we are utterly powerless against the "magical wizard gods" of advertising.

Maybe you don't get sarcasm or hyperbole or nuance in language use, I don't know, but I think an argument could be made that you don't understand the nuance of language, judging by your grammatical structures and syntax. Or maybe you just simply misread me on an honest mistake. I don't know. But any way, you were wrong. I believe in the power of advertising, but I do not believe it is unstoppable, or that we must all be beholden to it. It is a power that easily stopped by simple use of the human brain and a bit of critical thought and awareness. We don't have to be victims.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #78
79. Ah the grammar attack... COOL
I was wondering when that was coming...

You including the spell-flame too? Happy, happy, joy, joy...

By the way... it is not that I don't get it, I asked you a STRAIGHT question, which you could not bother to think or research...

And I cannot stand people who make fun of this, or of folks who actually fall prey to marketing (Who tend to be younger by the way, and far more exposed to the culture, again that pesky science and ahem demographics).

So I figured I'd let you know how SOME OF THIS ACTUALLY WORKS... call it EDUCATION

Again, have a nice day

:-)

Now care to go again on the grammar, spelling and syntax police? In my decades in the WWW, going back to the good ol' days of USENET, this means you think that this will shut me up, because you showed me. And you showed to others just how much of an ignorant fool I am. This is an ancient tactic... speaking volumes by the way, about YOU.

:sascasm: and that personal attack will somehow make me avoid you or think you are superior to me.. the other intent of the flame...

By the way, if you care I could start using the grammar and syntax (and spelling used in the Queens English, usually that drives blokes like you absolutely batty.)

(Yes that period is in the right place in her Majesty's English, bloke)
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #79
80. LOL! You're precious.
Edited on Sat Dec-06-08 10:09 PM by Rabrrrrrr
I wasn't attacking you on grammar or syntax, merely offering the suggesting that judging by your use of it, perhaps language is not your strong suit. That is no insult, nor was it - as you so ignorantly surmised - any attempt to invalidate what you say. It was merely an observation; and yes, observation is far different than attack.

And no, I did not think mentioning your grammar and syntax would shut you up. As anyone with a brain and some experience knows, that is both an unworkable tactic and an ignorant tactic, which only the intellectually destitute and last-chance losers use. I am far too smart to think that I would "shut you up" by mentioning your lack of skills; and, as I said just in the previous paragraph, there was no thought on my part of trying or wanting to "shut you up". Sorry, dude, but you lose on that one. I have no reason to want you to shut up or cease dialogue.

My only intent is to make clear to you that I understand how marketing and advertising work, I understand its power, I understand why it works the way it does; and that yet, given all the above, I still do not think we need to look at it as something that is unstoppable, undecodable, or unresistable. Which, as I pointed in the post above, is the same opinion you hold.

As to the question, you asked me a STRAIGHT question that was neither of interest nor relevance to me at the time. You also asked it in a haughty obnoxious way, a "I know the answer and you don't, ha ha ha!" attitude which I find demeaning, rude, and childish, and that attitude made me even less incentivized to explore the incredibly obvious question you posed.

And contrary to your constant ignorant haranguing, I *do* get it, and I *don't* need your "education". You have taught me nothing I did not already know. My ability to deconstruct and see through the "magic" is quite high. Which you would know if you actually paid attention to what I write, instead of reading into it what you wish were there. Which, if you had read in the former, you would have also found that my grammar and syntax remark was a mere hypothetical option, on option of many.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #80
81. Nobody is haranguing you
and you are precious too.

For many reasons... truly... many reasons.

:-)

By the way this is a MESSAGE BOARD... read by more than just you and me

So if you know how this works, fine... how many OTHER PEOPLE HAVE NO CLUE?

Have a nice life.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #79
96. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #74
98. On a Coke Machine at work...
On the bottom is an image of a pile of ice right below the red field and logo. Some of us found the hidden image of a naked woman lounging within the shadows of that ice pile.

I thought it was a joke by the artist, sort of like the Disney guy painting a penis tower on The Little Mermaid's VHS box, but I think your explanation is more plausible. That ice woman is deliberate. Sort of like Fed Ex's logo having a hidden arrow between the E and X.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #11
30. But there is a defense against that.
Do NOTHING on impulse.

Always think before you pull out that credit card (if you even have a credit card - something else that has been foisted upon us by marketeers).

If looking to buy anything more important than a sandwich, I always put it off for a day, at least. Then my OWN subconscious has time to see through the manipulation being worked on it.
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #30
37. No, you are a HAPLESS VICTIM! A VICTIM of the magical marketing Wizard Gods!
:rofl:

I do what you do - if I think I want something, I wait a day or more; the more expensive the item, the longer the delay. Unless I am out doing something intentionally for a real need, like buying socks or shoes, or changing the oil on my car, or grocery items.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #8
83. Do you own an IPod??
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 06:49 AM
Response to Reply #83
85. Yes, I do - I bought one a year ago, after much research into mp3 players
Edited on Sun Dec-07-08 07:00 AM by Rabrrrrrr
and after long resisting buying one. But I finally found myself in a position in which having an mp3 player would enhance the quality of one area of my life. So I looked and researched and read a lot of reviews over the course of a few weeks, and, against my initial desire, discovered that Apple does seem to make the highest quality mp3 players, so I went with an iPod Nano. And yes, it has indeed enhanced the quality of my life by allowing me to listen to stuff which I would not otherwise have time to listen to.

Do you own a computer? A refrigerator? A TV? Have cable at home? High speed Internet? Carpeting?



What a stupid thing, to ask a question about ownership with no sense of context, reasoning, or purpose.

:eyes:
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #85
86. It's not a stupid thing to ask, and since you feel that way
I'll end the discussion.
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #86
90. You added no context to it, offering it as a rhetorical "gotcha!" question
and I showed that your "gotcha" was nonexistent.
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conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #85
89. The fact that you
felt there was a need to research on which is the best MP3 player is an excellant example of the power of advertising and marketing.
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #89
91. It shows the power of advertising in letting people know what products are available
It does not show the power of advertising to unconsciously force MY decision to buy one. Which, as I argued above, I do not discount the power of advertising - I never have discounted that power.

What I discount is the belief of so many on this thread that we, the people, are somehow utterly helpless against that power; that the power of advertising is more powerful than we are, and that we are completely unable to say "no" to it.

I don't believe that for a moment. Saying "no" is very easy; saying "yes" when and only when one decides to say "yes" is also very easy.

All it takes is a brain and some thought.
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Midlodemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #91
94. Exactly. When I bought my van, I essentially knew
from the ads what features were available and which had best specs for MY family. Even though most of my friends have decided that they're not 'van people' (what does that mean, anyway? ) I resisted the urge for an SUV because it wasn't right for me. I'm not that tall and having driven a rental Suburban and my husband's Durango (before we ditched it) I simply didn't care for them.

From my perspective, the ads are available to let you know what's out there to choose from. As far as the more subtle ones, one of the best package designs I ever saw was for Vivid color bleach. The package was an unbelievably, well, vivid, arrangement of very bright colors, which obviously conveyed that it would do a better job on your colored clothing that the extremely dull Clorox 2 navy blue box.

For the record, it did work pretty well.
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Midlodemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #83
93. I don't. Having worked in marketing and marketing communications,
I agree with Rabrrrrrr. Are there sheeple who will buy just about anything because it's a new geegaw? Of course. Resisting the impulse to purchase something just 'because' is what separates the wheat from the chaff.

I also don't own the newest most incredibly sexy cell phone, either. I don't text and if I need to send an email, I use my blackberry, again not the most current or flashy.

To me. It's the betamax versus VHS argument. Just because it's being touted as the latest and greatest doesn't mean that it is.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
54. Marketers lie, but caveat emptor
Sure, they talk about 'rugged...power...performance...' and rarely mention MPG (although they're desperately doing so right now). But that's what's sold up to now. Over in Europe 'MPG' is one of the first questions someone asks because they know they're going to be paying more for gas.

They do have stricter advertising standards over there, but most US car ads would pas easily since they're not making specific false claims. It is perfectly OK to sell a car by saying 'it's the best-looking car evah...you'll FEEL the difference!' despite this being an entirely meaningless sales pitch. The main difference on the other side of the pond is that drugs can not be marketed direct to the public, not least because you can't write yourself a prescription and therefore should be leaving such decisions to the doctor. The doctors do get marketed to like they do here of course.

Sure, car companies pay big bucks to commercial directors, photographers etc to make the car look awesome, but has there ever been a an ad campaign design to make a product look mediocre? Duh. What's needed is better media awareness on the part of the consumer via education, but even then you can only lead a horse to water, you can't make him drink.
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MedleyMisty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. I have to agree
People can't do that much about their external circumstances in general, but there's no reason why you can't be held responsible for what goes on inside your own head if your neurochemicals are working correctly for the most part.
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Thank you. Blaming advertisers for doing their job is like
is like blaming your house fire on the combustibility of the wood instead of on the cigarette you were smoking when you fell asleep during a whisky bender. "It's the house's fault!"
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. SCIENCE has proven that people don't even know why they make their own decisions
Here is an article on Neuromarketing, if you care to get off your high-horse and actually educate yourself

http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2005/06/01/neuromarke...
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. Well, then, we're all hapless victims of the Wizard Gods of Marketing. I'm buying an SUV!
And drinking Coke!

From now on, I'm defining myself by the products I identify with.
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VPStoltz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #19
99. Hey! I'm totally with you.
Perhaps if we had spent as much on education as all the other bullshit, our citizens would be able to think for themselves.
These arguments you're getting are bogus - who really believes they can't resist a TV ad? Come on.
And what is really the shocker, some persons and products these people are being sucked in to are really those who bucked the system to begin with.
Go figure.
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #99
103. Thanks! I'm flabbergasted at the people who think so little of themselves they willingly embrace
victimhood.

"Nope - the advertisers use SCIENCE! SCIENCE for God's sake! There's NO WAY ANYONE CAN RESIST!!!!!!"

Fucking hell.

I'd hate to be the kind of person who is so cowardly, and so low in self-esteem, that I'm willing to let TV commercials win.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
4. Wasn't it the automakers...
Edited on Fri Dec-05-08 10:15 AM by TwoSparkles
...who fought cafe standards for years?

Wasn't Richard Shelby the notorious gatekeeper for the automakers--ensuring that they
would not have to spend additional money making cars more fuel efficient?

I feel for all of the automaker employees. They are the victims. They are the ones
who should personally receive every dollar from any bailout.

The automakers were greedy--making ginormous cars and spending loads of cash to get the
lawmakers in their pockets, in order to help them evade the very solutions that would
help our environment and our economy.

I have absolutely no faith that the executives at these companies will do the right things
with the money.

The employees who worked their hearts out for these barracudas, should be the ones talking
to Congress about a bailout. Give the money to the workers who were promised healthcare
and pensions, and tell the CEOs to go screw themselves.

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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
5. I drive one because I actually go off-road fairly often
A Japanese SUV, BTW.
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
6. People Like $PRODUCT Because $COMPANY Advertisers Mindfuck Them Into Wanting Them
Well, that's advertising in a nutshell.
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Scout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
7. oh bullshit
Edited on Fri Dec-05-08 10:20 AM by Scout
i wanted to own a jeep many, many years ago, before anyone had ever heard of SUVs. it's practical for my lifestyle, and fun to drive. our family is on our 3rd jeep, after driving small cars (pinto, renault alliance, escort) for years.

edit to remove extra apostrophe in title
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hughee99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #7
17. I agree
Big cars have been around long before SUV's and slick marketing. Most people only became concerned with fuel efficiency when it became so damn expensive. 20 years ago, if you asked people what the most important factors were in deciding on a new car, I'll bet the phrase "high mileage" didn't come up to often.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #17
23. Not all "big cars" are SUV's which were built on truck frames making them prone to roll-overs
Edited on Fri Dec-05-08 10:38 AM by cryingshame
and yet marketed as "safe family vehicles".

My station wagon is plenty big.
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hughee99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #23
31. True
but for a long, long time, no one gave a rats ass about fuel efficiency. The reason people were buying SUV's instead of fuel efficient cars wasn't because they were brainwashed by the marketing. Also that sort of thing only works once. Once someone owns a car for a while, if they don't like it, they don't get another one. I think a lot of people now aren't looking for more fuel efficient cars because they care about the environment, it's because they can't afford the gas. If gas was free, or cars were powered by happy thoughts, SUVS would sell very well.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #7
35. Well, it worked on you then.
Edited on Fri Dec-05-08 11:43 AM by NCevilDUer
"Fun to drive" says it all.

Practical to drive makes sense. Fun to drive means you have bought into the car culture which has been sold to us for 80 years.

"See the USA - In your Chevrolet!"

Owning a car is all about FUN.

ON EDIT:

...and SEX.

"The question is, when you turn it on, does it return the favor?"

When I was 14 or so, I was admiring a sports car with a friend, and he said "Man, that's beautiful! Doesn't it just turn you on?" (blink, blank stare) "No. I'm into girls. That's a machine. I don't get sexually aroused by machines." At which he RETURNED my blink and blank stare - just couldn't understand it.
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EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #35
59. That's a rather silly argument.
Cars CAN be fun to drive. And considering how much time I have to spend in my car, I made damn sure I'd be having as much fun as possible. You're obviously not a car person, and that's fine. But just because you don't understand car culture doesn't mean you're somehow above it
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EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #35
60. Dupe. NT
Edited on Fri Dec-05-08 01:31 PM by EOTE
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Scout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #35
64. well i don't get turned on by it
Edited on Fri Dec-05-08 01:56 PM by Scout
driving my escort GT was fun too, but that car and small ones like it are no longer practical for my lifestyle. driving a stick shift is more fun than driving an automatic, but i have an automatic now.

:eyes:

and before you ask, i've never had to have sex in my car either ... i've always had a more "practical" place for that.

i think many of those buying hybrids are doing it for the status, and their own egos: "see how much better than you i am, i care about the environment and you don't."

my used SUVs didn't waste/use the resources needed to make those ugly hybrid cars either, like if i'd bought a new hybrid.

ETA: the first thing i noted about my jeep was "it's practical for my lifestyle" ... the fun to drive part is secondary, so you grasped at the wrong straw.

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uncle ray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #7
42. jeep buyers are not the problem.
hummer, escalade, excursion, etc. buyers are the problem.

though since chrysler took over jeep they have been building some larger vehicles more like the competition, but they are not the problem.
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Scout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #42
65. are Jeeps considered SUVs, in terms of the OP? n/t
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FormerDittoHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
9. Oh, Advertising and P/R doesn't influence consumer behavior...
:sarcasm:

I'm thinking there are those who would believe that "the market" knows what's best for them, isn't EASILY influenced by the information that's fed to them through billboards, newspapers, magazines, car shows, radio and television, and we're not to judge because they're making rational decisions based upon facts and logic.

And then there are the rest of us who know better.
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #9
34. right. In fact, there's no reason for companies to spend millions on advertising every year
marketing doesn't ever work. </sarcasm>

That said, it really doesn't work on everyone equally, and some really do have an independent need/want for large vehicles, but.... Most SUVs I see are basically minivans on roids for drivers who want to keep up with the Jones.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
13. I agree, the mfgs. pushed the SUV, and I can't blame them. They were
making a NICE profit from their sales. Any business tries to push their profitable items. But there were other forces behind a lot of those sales. I used to argue with my ex-DIL when she insisted on getting an Expedition "Because it was SAFE". IMO, she only wanted one because it was the "IN THING" to do! All the while she was pusing for an SUV, she said "I'd NEVER drive a van"! Yes, my son finally agreed to by an Expedition, both of them bitched about the gas mileage th whole time they owned it, and when she moved out, she took the SUV (and the payment book) with her. She actually got lucky when she wasd able to sell it (after she realized she couldn't afford to drive it anymore) and actually get a few $$ above what was owed on it.

Our society made the SUV a "status symbol" for a while. I can't fault the car makers for going along with that desired image and making a profit.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #13
25. SUV's were MARKETED as safe despite their roll-over vulnerability. SUV Commercial-
it's snowing, it's middle of the night, your toddler is screaming and needs to get to the doctor THANK GOD YOU HAVE YOUR SUV!

Of course, logically in that scenario you'd call an amubulance....

But that was a real commercial I remember from a few years back.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. The rollover vulnerability is especially a problem for inexperienced drivers
Edited on Fri Dec-05-08 10:43 AM by slackmaster
SUVs are not appropriate for beginners. Teenagers should not drive them unsupervised.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
16. People were perfectly happy with station wagons for AGES
until vans became "cool"..and then they were NOT..and SUVs became cool..

advertising..brainwashing..
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hughee99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. People drove station wagons...
I'm not sure how happy people were with them. My mother hated ours and got rid of it as soon as she could. I learned my first curse words listening to her yell at the car.
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ben_meyers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
18. Works in politics too it would seem.
nt
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last_texas_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #18
97. Yeah
Always liked this book cover:


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lame54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
21. and the govt gives a tax break on them
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
22. It's the management culture that only knows how to do things
one way. They think cars sell only when they do those cockeyed shots that make them look like they're going cattywampus on a 45 degree hill and sped up so they look like they're going 120 instead of a sedate 25.

It doesn't occur to them to show Joe Suburban ranking out his neighbor because his car will do 0-60 in the same time his neighbor's gas hog will and costs him only a third as much in gas per week for the same commute.

It doesn't occur to them to push agility over muscle, economy over mass of sheet metal, brains over witless machismo.

I've come to the conclusion that they don't push their good small cars when it's prudent to do so because they haven't got a clue how to advertise them. The higher profit margin on the gas hog gives them a disincentive to figure it out.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. thanks for understanding my point and using the word cattywampus.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #26
32. Advertising only goes so far, though
and when gas is four bucks a gallon, no amount of metallic machismo is going to suck most buyers in to buying a Humvee.
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Medusa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #32
58. And now that gas is going down again in price
Edited on Fri Dec-05-08 01:24 PM by Mystery2Me
people will have no real motivation to give up their trucks, SUV's and gas guzzlers.
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carlyhippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #58
87. some people can't give up their suvs and pickups, hopefully they learn to conserve gas
in their high mileage vehicles. I did, I also learned how to drive more fuel efficiently, combined trips, walked when it was nice out. My driving habits in my SUV completely changed, and even though gas prices have gone down, I still drive very little. My SUV is a necessity, so I learned to adapt to the gas prices.
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Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
24. Marketing had nothing to do with my decision when I bought my SUV
I drove by a Ford lot and I saw the truck I wanted, and I hadn't seen any advertisements for it beforehand.

The only thing that might have helped me buy it, '02 Explorer Sport Trac is the inside is a lot like my trade-in, '95 Ranger but with much more room.
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Locrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
28. not that simple
Edited on Fri Dec-05-08 10:44 AM by Locrian
Marketing works because people are fucking stupid and easily led by the nose into being told what they like, instead of deciding for themselves.


Even if you allow this point ("people are stupid"). You need to CARE about this. Because like it or not it affects you.

People dont get that we are not always talking about a specific individual. We are talking about a collective. And that that AFFECTS each and every one of us, like it or not.

I dont want to put words into the quoted poster - but the natural progression is "...so screw them if they are stupid". Which is the same as saying screw the collective WHICH WE ARE ALL A PART OF.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
33. This theory assumes that all people can be manipulated by advertising
Some of us are immune to it.
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
38. Anyone who thought about it objectively would agree.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
39. People like them because they want to sit high over everyone else
Edited on Fri Dec-05-08 11:09 AM by hlthe2b
and (especially owners of the mega versions), feel that they can plow over everyone else... It's a POWER thing...

And in some defense, I can understand the desire to sit higher so that you can see. Anyone in a standard car who has sat behind truck after truck at a stoplight or behind a traffic jam can certainly understand that. But, I think most could get that from small SUVs, like the RAV4 or Honda CRX--- and not necessarily a Ford Excursion or Hummer.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #39
63. SUV's were designed with marketing psychologists help. Wheel hubs look like clenched fists
grills purposely made to look like clenched teeth.

Saw an interview with a man whose job it was doing this.

It was intentional.

It just feeds into the Reptilian brain and aggressive Me-First tendencies.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #63
68. interesting... I can see that.. n/t
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blue_onyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
40. Consumers weren't unsuspecting victims
that were forced or tricked into buy SUVs. The auto companies like big SUVs because there's a higher profit margin. Consumers bought SUVs because they like them too.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
41. "Will the Owner of the White Minivan Please Move Your Vehicle?"
The first wave of SUV enthusiasts that I was aware of were mud-racers and trail boppers in the 1980s - oh, and musicians.

In the very early 1990s, Range Rovers and Land Rovers became available for the US market, creating demand from people who wanted to look a) like they drove rugged vehicles and b) like they spent weekends on the country estate.

From there, the market exploded, but not without help. One TV commercial that stood out for its use of big SUV = big, wild, dick marketing was set in a gym, with a bunch of men working out. Over the PA came a voice looking for the (pussy) driver of (the family) a minivan that was mis-parked. The commercial made it clear that the owner of the vehicle felt he would be so emasculated if he admitted to being the minivan driver in a roomful of other (macho SUV-driving) men, that he'd rather let it get towed.
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SmileyRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #41
105. OK, I admit it
I make less than $10 an hour and THE ONLY reason I spent my hard earned money on a used Expedition was to make me feel like my dick is bigger.


:crazy: :silly:
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
43. Ummm, how do explain the Nissan Titan and the Honda Pilot then???
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
44. most people with SUVs i see have them to show off
i'm not talking about people who may need them because of the area they live in. i'm in a city so people don't need them to drive around here.

most of these people also do not have large families where they need some huge vehicle to get around.
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county worker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #44
50. Too bad we couldn't put you in every car dealer so you could tell the potential SUV buyers what they
should and shouldn't do.

Is this still America?
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #50
53. do yo say that when we are talking about rights for gays and women ?
and i'm talking about civil rights such as what to do with their own personal lives and bodies.

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county worker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #53
56. Of course I believe in rights for gays and women. My sister-in-law is both!
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Kalyke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
45. Don't watch TV much, do you?
Edited on Fri Dec-05-08 12:09 PM by Kalyke
I see plenty of commercials for cars advertising their gas mileage - yes, including American cars. And I watch, maybe two hours of TV a day.

LOL!!! Even as I posted this, there appeared an ad, just below this thread (for all us non-donors) for a Ford Flex crossover advertising, you guessed it, it's gas mileage!!! :rofl:
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The2ndWheel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
46. So they should be mindfucked into liking something else?
If there were commercials using sophisticated techniques with a person having a symbloic orgasm over their great gas mileage, then being fucked in the mind wouldn't be so bad?
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zane25 Donating Member (101 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
47. Some of us just like our Jeeps
I have been driving them for 20 years, well before SUV was even a term to decribe them. I like my Grand Wagoneer, there is nothing better for an outdoor lifestyle in Colorado.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
48. I think it's more the FEAR factor. USians have become so fearful of their own shadows
that they look for ANYTHING they think will "protect" them.

That leads us to war, buying stoopid shit that only give the illusion (while actually being more dangerous), barricading ourselves from each other, etc.

Fear coupled with "rugged individualism" is doing us in.
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BuelahWitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #48
67. They can also use "fear" as an excuse
A friend of mine bought one of these monstrosities a few years back because he "might need to rescue his sister and her family in case of a terrorist attack."
So I asked, "But she's got a husband, right?"
Him: "Yeah."
Me: "Well, shouldn't he and your sister be responsible for their own family?"
Him: "Yeah, I guess so."
Me: "Is it too late to take (the monstrosity) back?"
Him: "But I LIKE my Suburban!"

End of conversation.
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
51. People are sheep and victims.
That's a world view I can buy into. (Unless your post is a form of advertising that is designed to make me buy into that world view.) ;)
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
52. Blah blah blah. People are mindless, stupid, mouthbreathing sheep.
They do whatever the media or the advertisers or the politicians say. they have no free will. Blah blah blah.

Typical DU nonsense.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
55. Damn! And all this time I thought I bought my Tahoe because it was big enough for me
to carry tools, ladders and large cargo fully protected from the elements when the need arose; much more comfortable than my van ever was; had the capacity to carry five passengers and lots of luggage comfortably; easily pulled my boat trailer or work trailer when the need arose; was large enough for my dog's travel kennel to fit in for long trips; had a track record among other Tahoe/Suburban owners that I personally asked about their vehicles that they were extremely reliable and well-built; had four-wheel drive so I could assist others in getting to and from work during snowy/hazardous road conditions; and looked great; had excellent maneuverability and stability in any situation that I encountered;

Wow, what a dumbass I am for being so manipulated by SUV marketing wizards.

Fortunately, it has been lots of FUN to own, but unfortunately, I have not been able to capitalize on the SEX part. Yet.

Now that's a crying shame!!


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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #55
69. I used to hate SUV's until I bought one...
Edited on Fri Dec-05-08 02:57 PM by JCMach1
Yes, I did the station wagon thing (Peugeot 307SW) for two years year and frankly the condition here made a car should we say CRAP!

You need tough to cross sand, rocks, suvive 50Cent. heat, curbs, and to intimidate the assholes in their Mercedes. It's one survival strategy for traffic here.

Having said that, my Hyundai Terracan probably gets better mileage than a lot of your cars.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #69
71. Here is mine
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
57. bullshit. people buy them because they LIKE them.
you have more space, you sit up higher than other traffic, you can haul around a lot of stuff, etc...
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Scout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #57
66. but, but, you only THINK you like them, because the marketers have mindfucked you
simple sheep that you are :sarcasm:

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EnviroBat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
61. I always thought that the only reason I'd ever own a SUV would
be the 4-wheel drive confidence part, as I'm terrified of winter driving. But little cars like Suzuki's are coming in on-demand all-wheel drive versions, and they get great mileage.

I don't think I'll be buying a new car any time soon, but if I did it would be one of these:



Why can't the US build a car like this?
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War Pigs Donating Member (176 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
62. Women drive big SUVs for the same reason that short guys
drive huge 4x4 pickups-small or no penises! It makes them feel big. Plus you can get lots of chinese-made "God Bless America/Our Troops" on them. :bounce:
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taterguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 05:10 AM
Response to Reply #62
73. The only way you would know that is if you checked out the anatomy of every SUV owner
I know lots of SUV owners. Most of them are people that I haven't seen naked and I'd like to keep it that way.
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carlyhippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #62
77. excuse me for a second......looks down front of pants.....
...no penis...you are correct!

I am a woman who drives an SUV, it doesn't make me feel big and I didn't buy it for that reason....I need it for the icy/snowy roads outside right now. My purchase of this new vehicle was not the result of a "marketing ploy", it is out of necessity-when we made this vehicle purchase I had my choice down to 2 vehicles- my Xterra or a 2008 Dodge Ram pickup. I bought the Xterra because it got better gas mileage and it was bigger for my family.

Yes, I agree there are some women who buy SUV's just for the show, but not all women.....

Carly
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BlueCollar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 04:50 AM
Response to Original message
72. I own a 1998 Jeep Cherokee
and I don't care what people think. I've found it to be a reliable and practical vehicle for my lifestyle.

I didn't hear people bitching about it in Crawford for a few summers as I used it to haul water out to Camp Casey...
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Truthiness Inspector Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
84. My two cents...
Today's "SUVs" were yesterdays 4x4s. And they were a necessity for many.

They served, and serve, a purpose: to travel off-road. I'd like to see someone take a Prius off-road.

Not every road/landscape is paved or easily navigable, though more are as time goes by. But, I think this is how "it started" meaning out of necessity, then it grew into being "cool" or a luxury item that would never be used for its original intended purposes.

I have a full-size SUV. I grew up with them (4x4s) and drive off-road. For a commuter car, I'm eyeballing a Prius. Vehicles all have purposes.



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dansolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
88. Station wagon -> Minivan -> SUV
While there may be some people who are susceptible to the advertising, I really think that the SUVs are just the natural progression for family cars that can seat many people with extra storage space. Back in the 70s and 80s, the choices were either a station wagon or a van. Then minivans came out, which seemed to replace the station wagon. SUVs were sold as an alternative to minivans, or as an offroading vehicle. Now there are some people who have SUVs that don't really need them, but I'm not sure that I would really claim that the demand is entirely marketing driven. Some people actually do need larger vehicles for their families/work.
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
92. is that all folks want from a car?
Edited on Sun Dec-07-08 02:07 PM by notadmblnd
What about safety? The people that ride in my vehicle are important to me. I want to know that I'm going to get where we're going economically and safely, or if we do get in an accident that our chances of survival are good. Does anyone know how these foreign fuel efficient models compare to domestic cars in safety. Are there any comparisons out there? Is it more important to save a few bucks at the pump than it is to get where your going and back safely? Does anyone even care?
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carlyhippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #92
95. I do....and that was another reason why I bought an SUV
I fully realize there is the rollover factor, but I am more careful with my driving knowing about the rollover factor. I have seen too many small cars smashed to nothing, we had a little car before, the kids where almost against the doors sitting in the back seat, and I never felt safe in it. I feel much better in my SUV.
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U4ikLefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #92
101. What about the people in the other vehicle?
Maybe "the one you love" was negligent & caused the accident. So if someone in a Prius collides with your family in their huge Tahoe, the Prius driver should suffer greater injuries cause they bought less steel?

I don't call that safety...I call that being a selfish fuck!!!
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #101
102. Did I say I owned a Tahoe or an Expedition?
Edited on Sun Dec-07-08 04:48 PM by notadmblnd
I simply asked if safety was a factor in any ones decision to buy. The great thing about this country, is that we have a choice. No one is forced to drive anything they don't want to drive. If you feel perfectly safe driving a Prius, and saving dollars at the pump is what has the most importance to you; then by all means, drive it.
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Scout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #101
110. what if the Prius driver was the asshole who caused the accident?
are they the stupid fuck then?
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #110
111. Prius drivers are too perfectly holier-than-thou to cause accidents
only SUV drivers cause accidents, because they're selfish soccer moms on the cell phone.
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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
100. This meme is so dumb it hurts. People buy what they choose.
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SmileyRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
104. Great way to win people over - tell them they are retarded idiots.
Unbelievable.
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trayfoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
106. I TOTALLY agree that advertising has an influence!
Yes, people need to understand the economic situation we're in today! They also NEED to understand that the trucks and SUVs are NOT going to sustain their lifestyle! Hopefully, the American people will realize that they HAVE to downgrade their aspirations! Until that happens, Detroit is on a track to bankruptcy!
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
107. Which simply proves that P.T. Barnum was right about American consumers.
Just tell 'em that they're gonna finally be happy, sexy, and noticed if they buy the latest toy and they'll line up to go into debt.
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
108. no moreso than any product: why buy an energy-draining flat screen tv? just a big CO2 producer
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CRF450 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #108
109. If its an LCD screen, there more efficient than a regular tube tv.
Plasma's, not so much.
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