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Hello! Everyone Knows the US Attorneys were FIRED. Yet bush is Saying They RESIGNED

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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 06:33 PM
Original message
Hello! Everyone Knows the US Attorneys were FIRED. Yet bush is Saying They RESIGNED
Edited on Tue Mar-20-07 06:36 PM by leftchick
isn't there a clear distinction between the two and why in the fuck is bush getting away yet again with these word games?

:banghead:



http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2007/03/bush_will_correct_fired_us_att.html


<snip>

Third, I recognize there is significant interest in the role the White House played in the resignations of these U.S. attorneys. Access to White House staff is always a sensitive issue. The President relies upon his staff to provide him candid advice. The framers of the Constitution understood this vital role when developing the separate branches of government. And if the staff of a President operated in constant fear of being hauled before various committees to discuss internal deliberations, the President would not receive candid advice, and the American people would be ill-served.

Yet, in this case, I recognize the importance of members of Congress having -- the importance of Congress has placed on understanding how and why this decision was made. So I'll allow relevant committee members on a bipartisan basis to interview key members of my staff to ascertain relevant facts. In addition to this offer, we will also release all White House documents and emails involving direct communications with the Justice Department or any other outside person, including members of Congress and their staff, related to this issue. These extraordinary steps offered today to the majority in Congress demonstrate a reasonable solution to the issue. However, we will not go along with a partisan fishing expedition aimed at honorable public servants.

The initial response by Democrats, unfortunately, shows some appear more interested in scoring political points than in learning the facts. It will be regrettable if they choose to head down the partisan road of issuing subpoenas and demanding show trials when I have agreed to make key White House officials and documents available. I have proposed a reasonable way to avoid an impasse. I hope they don't choose confrontation. I will oppose any attempts to subpoena White House officials.

As we cut through all the partisan rhetoric, it's important to maintain perspective on a couple of important points. First, it was natural and appropriate for members of the White House staff to consider and to discuss with the Justice Department whether to replace all 93 U.S. attorneys at the beginning of my second term. The start of a second term is a natural time to discuss the status of political appointees within the White House and with relevant agencies, including the Justice Department. In this case, the idea was rejected and was not pursued.

Second, it is common for me, members of my staff, and the Justice Department to receive complaints from members of Congress in both parties, and from other citizens. And we did hear complaints and concerns about U.S. attorneys. Some complained about the lack of vigorous prosecution of election fraud cases, while others had concerns about immigration cases not being prosecuted. These concerns are often shared between the White House and the Justice Department, and that is completely appropriate.

I also want to say something to the U.S. attorneys who reside. I appreciate your service to the country. And while I strongly support the Attorney General's decision and am confident he acted appropriately, I regret these resignations turned into such a public spectacle.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. They resigned because the DoJ asked them to
So it's technically correct to say they resigned rather than being fired for a legitimate cause, e.g. poor job performance.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. my point isthe only one saying they resigned is bush
every google hit for this story calls them fired, not even "forced to resign". The M$M never calls him on his BS.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. But that's the point... Bush is telling the truth for once
When an employer asks for your resignation, it's under the guise of doing you a favor so you don't have a "you're fired" on your record. It's done all the time. Bush didn't lie at all... in that sentence anyway. I'm sure he made up for it in other parts of the speech.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. technically
there were dismissed with no explanation. That is hardly a "resignation" no matter how it is minced, so yes he is indeed lying.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. If that's the case
Why were they asked for letters of resignation?
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sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Nope. They were informed they were being 'let go' and replaced.
They were told to submit letters of resignation. There is a difference.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. No, there isn't
Happens in corporate American every single day. Letter of resignation is a quit, no question about it. They quit/resigned. Resigned = Quit no matter how you slice it. They were asked to do so, but they did it. So my statement stands. Bush did not lie in the matter of them resigning. They did resign/quit.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #2
26. San Diego Union-Tribune lead story: "Tensions rise over fired attorneys"
That's the top headline on the front page of the print edition.

It's in second place on the Web edition, under the Grand Canyon's new Skywalk.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070321/index.html?0.026927921374806374
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. Again... just because a word is used over and over again
it doesn't magically become the truth. That is a RW tactic that we should eschew with much bravado.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. I am neutral on the word choice because I understand what happened
I find this discussion mildly interesting, but I suggest we should not allow it to cloud the core issues.
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JetCityLiberal Donating Member (706 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
3. Good catch leftchick
They can spin the bullshit all they want and it still stinks.

recommended.
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lisa58 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
4. I heard that too...
...it's so easy for him to claim he doesn't know what's going on, because he doesn't.
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XOKCowboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
5. "Partisan Rhetoric"? Look in the mirror ya putz!
How these guys get away with this stuff is incredible. Oh yeah I forgot. Faux Noise, Tweety, Tucker...

Liberal media my butt.
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Throwing Stones Donating Member (730 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
6. I think it's a distinction without a difference
When you "serve at the pleasure", for some reason it's considered more gentlemanly to ask for a resignation rather than fire. These USAs technically tendered their resignations upon the request of the DOJ.
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sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. There is a distinction between resigning and being asked to leave.
Technically, the US Attys were told they were being let go/replaced and to submit their resignations.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. Nope, you are wrong
I worked in corporate HR for eight years. A resignation is a quit. Yes, it's a technicality, but it is done all the time.
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Throwing Stones Donating Member (730 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. what would you rather put on your resume?
I'm not defending the difference, but there are subtle differences that may or may not be germane to how this matter is framed.

At any rate, if you're high enough in the free market food chain to get a USA appointment, you really shouldn't have a problem finding a job when you leave, regardless of whether you resigned or were fired.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. You nailed it
That's why I say Bush didn't lie on this one issue... they quit. They wrote a letter of resignation, that equals quitting.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #6
20. You are correct
Edited on Tue Mar-20-07 07:50 PM by Juniperx
And based on this technicality, Bush did not lie about them quitting. They were forced to quit/resign, but they are the moving party.

Edited to say, I think what he has done is heinous, don't get me wrong! But when you are fighting a fight, you need to know exactly what you are talking about.
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
7. He simply has no regard for facts.
Neither do any of the other Moronocons. They say whatever puts them in the best light. It's like they just don't care what the facts are.
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SalmonChantedEvening Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
8. That is the face of someone watching sanity slip away.
And he probably thinks it resigned too.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
12. He looks like a cornered rat n/t
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louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
14. He's embellishing again. Notice how it's "complaints from both parties and Congress"
Before it was just complaints. Now it's bi-partisan. Show me. Show me the complaints from Democrats you worthless stooge.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
15. on KO Shuster says FIRED over and over again
thank you David. :)
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. So, it's true because someone said it over and over again?
That would mean all the lies BushCo have told are true as well... if you are going to fight the beast, you have to be consistent. Never lose sight of the fact that talking heads are out for ratings, no matter what side of the aisle they profess to support.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. interesting how you nuance on the side of bushco**
over and over again in this thread.

:eyes:
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. No, it's called telling the truth no matter what
Edited on Tue Mar-20-07 08:32 PM by Juniperx
Your argument has no bite if you aren't telling the truth. There is plenty of other crap in his speech to pick on, you happened to pick an issue that is a non-issue. We can't fight them if we nuance the truth, which is what you are clearly trying to do. The only way we can beat them is to be truthful right down the line.

If you are insinuating that I'm a troll or something, baby, you have another thing coming. I've been here as long as you have and I've been fighting the good fight a very long time. You can't fight that fight with half truths and assumptions. You don't know what you are talking about. I was an HR professional for eight years. Do the math, do some research, and when you continue to fight the good fight, do it ONLY with good intelligence. Leave the bad and fabricated intelligence for BushCo.

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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. I'm with you on this one Juniperx
I'm constantly harping on the fact that we are fighting a group that has no regard for the truth, that routinely lies, distorts, misleads, mischaracterizes, etc.

Many here seem to think that the appropriate way to fight back is to do the same thing. I think that is a losing proposition. Certainly, I haven't seen it work. We tend to get called on it when we do.

In fighting these folks, and trying to rebut what they are claiming, we have to protect our own credibility. I've seen some simply riduculous things here at DU lately. For example, one poster contended that the fact Fred Fielding (WH Counsel) capitalized the word president in his letter to the Hill was evidence of the administration's aggrandizement of power mentality, because some style manuals indicated that president shouldn't be capitalized. In fact, of course, you can go back and research letters written in any number of past administrations (including Democratic administrations) and find that, here in DC, in government-written documents, president is capitalized. Same goes for court opinions. Of course, a number of DUers immediately bought into the OPs theory, despite the evidence to the contrary.

Now, I'm not suggesting that the discussion in this thread over the "resignation v. firing" issue is as silly as that piece of psychobabble. But you are right that attacking chimpy, or anyone else, for referring to the US Atty's as having "resigned" is barking up the wrong tree if they are going to claim that they were fired. If there is a criticism to be made is that saying that they "resigned" is incomplete. A more complete statement would be that they were asked to resign.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. Well said!
You nailed it, onenote. There are so many battles that can be fought and won using the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, that it is not only a waste of time to nit-pick this one word to the degree that it loses its truth, but it makes our side appear dumber and weaker... and very RWNutJob-ish.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #23
30. Read the requests for the resignations
in the PDFs, now matter how you slice it, they were asked to resign, they were not fired

He's right.

If we are goign to win on this one, never mind in effect they were fired, technically they were not
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
25. that is a picture of a sick psychotic man, if there's going to a
be a showdown, let it begin, we have waited long enough, and those Senators better stand up to this sick sick man.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
32. Bush is a liar
He can't help himself.

.
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paparush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
33. CAPTION: "We must haves the Precious!!!!"
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
34. If there's a CHOICE, it's called "resignation". They were FIRED.
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