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Saving the Big 3 for You and Me ...a message from Michael Moore

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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 09:28 AM
Original message
Saving the Big 3 for You and Me ...a message from Michael Moore
Saving the Big 3 for You and Me ...a message from Michael Moore
by Michael Moore
Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 04:54:46 AM PST

Friends,

I drive an American car. It's a Chrysler. That's not an endorsement. It's more like a cry for pity. And now for a decades-old story, retold ad infinitum by tens of millions of Americans, a third of whom have had to desert their country to simply find a damn way to get to work in something that won't break down:

My Chrysler is four years old. I bought it because of its smooth and comfortable ride. Daimler-Benz owned the company then and had the good grace to place the Chrysler chassis on a Mercedes axle and, man, was that a sweet ride!

When it would start...

read the rest at:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/12/3/74954/1532/390/668798
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sailor65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
1. That clown knows about as much about the car business...
as I do about geography on Pluto.
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last1standing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I'm always amazed when someone who knows nothing states an opinion like it was pure fact.
Please tell me what you know about the auto industry if you think M. Moore knows nothing. Please explain why his opinion is so off base while yours should be taken at face value. I'm honestly interested in what makes you so able to call others out on this subject.
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sailor65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #2
23. More than 16 years right here in this industry
Edited on Wed Dec-03-08 10:41 AM by sailor65
Right here in Detroit, right here in the mix with both sides.

I have been here for the strikes, the slowdowns, the "Job actions" (Euphemism for sabotage). I have watched stupidity on both sides of this business, from both management AND the unions. Moore loves to perpetuate the "My American car won't start" myth. He's always eager to bitch about quality but you will never hear from him about the countless millions of dollars invested in new quality systems here. Systems that very often crash and burn because every system deemed somehow repugnant (Read: "We don't understand how it works") by the workers gets subjected to a "Job action." I was here for the American Axle strike this year. I was here listening to outraged striking union members appalled at the idea of copays. These are some of the very same workers we have fought for years to get to accept improvements in quality. Dick Dauch knew he was fighting a losing quality battle, so he held out and guess what? Another chunk of manufacturing moved to Mexico. And the very same quality systems fought tooth and nail here were immediately put in place and systems quality shot straight up. So a lot of people right here now have no job because they were so badly represented, amd because the ass-clown union leadership here told then that "This system is bad for you."
Now that management finally gets called on the carpet, we cannot give the other side of the problem a free pass anymore.

Every time Moore opens his mouth he spouts the same old one-sided solution nonsense that we here have to listen too from way too many. The fault and solution do NOT lie on one side only. He knows it, but Moore does only pumps out the emotional, visceral stuff that sells his movies. He's not interested in helping us, not one damn bit. That's my problem with him. And claiming to have been raised in Flint doesn't give him any insight into the business. Most of us here cringe every time he opens his mouth because he's not part of the solution, he's part of the problem. People in our business are sick and tired of being used as political and marketing pawns by the likes of Moore.

Oh, and by the way, that "Sweet" Mercedes axle he was riding on in the article? The one he uses to try to buy some credibility for his article? It wasn't a Mercedes axle, it was a ZF axle, made first for Mercedes vehicles, then for Chrysler vehicles. I know, my team designed and built much of the equipment that builds it.

Is that enough, or should I post my resume as well?

Edited for the spelling I missed.......

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last1standing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. I'd like the resume, please.
Because I've been there every step of the way as well, and I know that Moore has some very good points. I also know that you aren't providing facts, just opinions on what you would have done if you were in a position to do anything. I'd suggest that if you think you would do better than current Union management that you should run for an office that allows your opinions to be put into action. Then we can judge something more than your posts on a semi-anonymous webforum.

Oh, and by the way, your comment on the axle in no way contradicts what Moore said. It was made for the Mercedes first, so it's a Mercedes axle, regardless of where it was made.
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. Good Post (nt)
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eShirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. care to elaborate?
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #3
14. Why, he's a goddamn leftist, and leftists are evil! If a leftist tells you that 2+2=4, he's LYING!1!
:sarcasm:
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sailor65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #3
24. Sure
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Odd that he makes so much sense.
What is the tallest mountain on Pluto?
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. Moore was born near Flint Michigan ...
And lived most of his life in the cradle of the Big 3 ....

Why the fuck should we accept that YOU know better than he does about this subject ?

Why the fuck should we accept that YOU are a more suitable authority in this matter ?

I dont buy it ..... This sounds like what Rush or Hannity might say .....
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sailor65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #9
25. I was born in Virginia..
That doesn't make me a ham.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4578299&mesg_id=4578614

Moore has never been in the "Cradle" of the Big 3. That's just something he uses to sell his schtick, and we're tired of being bought and sold.
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #1
13. Moore knows more than Commander AWOL knows about military operations...
Edited on Wed Dec-03-08 10:18 AM by SpiralHawk
But then again, the FAILED & disgraced republicon 'champion' Commander AWOL Bush is backed up by the republicon military genius VP Dickie 'Five Military Deferments' Cheney -- and a phalanx of feckless, overbribed chickenhawk republicon propagandists like Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Beck, and Hannity (who have not 5 seconds of service to the USA to their individual or collective credit).


Hmmmm - I think I'll take Michael Moore's advice on the auto industry over the republicon chickenhawk 'leadership' of our sons and daughters in uniform...
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #1
20. Is there shale on Pluto? Quartz? What's the deepest point there?
Thanks for possibly the mosteasily mocked post on DU I've eve3r seen...

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sailor65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #20
26. I'm pretty sure you missed the point of it then n/t
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #1
37. Wow, an astronomist on DU. What do you think about all those planets lining up with the moon, the sm
the smiley face effect? Does this mean we will have an upturn soon, with the pull of all those planets and moon being smiley like that and all?

I'd love to know more about Pluto, do you consider it a planet or moon or space rock?

Wow, a true astronomer here. Cool!
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islandmkl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
5. oh.screw michael moore...he's always just making TOO MUCH SENSE...
this is a good read....

"2. You could buy ALL the common shares of stock in General Motors for less than $3 billion. Why should we give GM $18 billion or $25 billion or anything? Take the money and buy the company! (You're going to demand collateral anyway if you give them the "loan," and because we know they will default on that loan, you're going to own the company in the end as it is. So why wait? Just buy them out now.)"

for you michael moore naysayers...explain the fault in this....

'blind squirrels...' is not a valid critique...
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
6. I disagree with his plan, but agree with his objectives.
Edited on Wed Dec-03-08 09:58 AM by TexasObserver
Michael makes a big mistake when he suggests buying the GM common stock. Right now, GM has liabilities, and the only way to separate many of those liabilities from the assets needed to create a Phoenix company to rise from the ashes is by bankruptcy. GM should be liquidated. Its bad debts, bad contracts, and other bad obligations disappear in liquidation. All that is left are the assets, which include the name, the plants, the designs, etc.

The US government could then act as financier for the purchase of those clean assets, so that a new, better GM can be created. The loan package would have the strictures Moore urges regarding the kind of vehicles to be built.

The big three all need to go into bankruptcy, because only bankruptcy will create the ability to start anew, without all the barnacles that adorn the hull of the American car industry.
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EnviroBat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. I agree.
I feel bad for the people that will lose their jobs though...
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. My belief is that the only way we save the jobs is through a new, clean entity.
Edited on Wed Dec-03-08 10:11 AM by TexasObserver
There's going to be some down time, and the objective should be to minimize that down time.

Pelosi has misstated the facts of bankruptcy. Chapter 11, which intends reorganization, takes a long time, but this should be a Chapter 7 liquidation. It's a funeral for the unsecured creditors, and the death knell of all the contracts with the soon to be dead company.

The secured creditors get their assets, or a chance to sell them as a package to a new buyer financed by the USA, and whatever the new buyer pays is split in court among the various claimants.

I see no point in keeping the same ownership, the same management, and the same union contracts. All parties are going to have to take less than they want, because they're ridden a loser company into the ground.
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madmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #12
35. So what happens to the retirees who have given their life and money to the now defunct company?
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. Barnacles..
As someone rapidly approaching retirement age I find your attitude most refreshing.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. Yes, barnacles.
Edited on Wed Dec-03-08 10:21 AM by TexasObserver
You know, bad contracts, obligations that cannot be met.

If it's pensions you're worried about, there's a government agency for that.

As far as I'm concerned, that's not an issue here. I'm focused on saving jobs and some semblance of the industry. I'm not concerned with trying to meet the unrealistic expectations of stockholders, managers, or workers. They're all going to be disappointed, and the sooner they accept it, the sooner they get half a loaf, instead of none.
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global1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #6
16. The Problem With Bankruptcy Is That It Might Save GM But In Turn Would......
shut down a myriad of other supporting companies that will get stiffed for the money GM owes them - those bad debts & bad obligations as you call them. This would start a cascading effect that would put many more people out of a job and on the street and further worsen the crisis.

I like MM's suggestion about purchasing GM now for $3 billion. Take over the company now as he says. Keep everybody working. Change the output of the company as he suggests. And pay down the debts to those companies that GM owes money to. Keep those companies afloat.

The only people that will benefit by a GM bankruptcy are those vultures waiting in the wings to take them over and as you say create a better GM. I doubt that those vultures would do any better and years down the road we'd be seeing them in Congress for a bailout or loan.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. Unfortunately, when one gives credit to a bad risk, one sometimes loses.
There will be many companies who get taken under by the sinking of GM. It's unfortunate, but the alternative is to keep this same sick company doing the same things that got it here.

These American car companies needs a complete revamping. They've been getting into this mess for the past 30 years, and this patient cannot be saved.

The big three HAVE failed. Not they might fail. They have failed. They're miserable failures, and the sooner the equity is gone, the contracts are gone, and the contingent liabilities are gone, the sooner we can get a new company going that isn't burdened by unrealistic ownership, bad management, and expensive labor.
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Kalyke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. Ford hasn't.
Edited on Wed Dec-03-08 10:33 AM by Kalyke
So... that would be the Big 2.

Ford wants only some security. They don't need a bailout. They have a plan (heck, it's been in the newspapers since summer) and they have a vision to put more hybrids on the road and bring smaller cars over from Europe. It is, however, up to Americans to stop "needing" trucks and SUVs and actually BUY the smaller cars and hybrids.

How would you propose we get that done?

In any case, I think Ford should get the money first, considering they're the most solvent.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #21
32. What does "Ford wants only some security" mean?
If it's guarantees, that's money.

The subject is GM, which is the company in the most trouble.

If Ford can find a way to survive, fine, but it's a little late for current ownership and management to come up with a new idea they could never effect until they were in trouble.

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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #6
22. and all the retirees who paid into their pension fund for 40 years get screwed
yeah, that's the ticket.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #22
34. They will deal with PBGC and get some benefits.
Edited on Wed Dec-03-08 11:17 AM by TexasObserver
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suston96 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
7. Automobile companies all over the world are already in the alternative fueled car race....
I say do as was done with Chrysler back in 1980 - the loan guarantee was for 1.5 billion and it was paid back early - in three years and the treasury - the US Treasury - the taxpayers - earned 325 million in interest.

Doesn't GM have the electric car already on the road in trials? http://www.gm.com/experience/technology/news/2007/fuel_cells/volt_011707.jsp

Lend them the money! Lend them all the money - I mean guarantee the loans, repayable with interest.
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EnviroBat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
8. What he's saying makes complete sense.
I love how these assholes are willing to work for a dollar a year now. Finally showing their true worth. It's not like they're Saints all of the sudden. These clowns have millions on hand and could live comfortably for the rest of their lives while setting up their children to do the same. Seems funny that millionaires are willing to suddenly take a dollar a year salary, they will pay nothing in income tax. I think it's exceedingly arrogant and presumptuous to play this pathetic martyr game and "give up your salary". Fuck them. They should be FIRED, and kicked squarely in the nuts. Or better yet, send them out with the "Casino Royale" treatment, knotted rope and all. Guys you may remember what I'm talking about. Ouch! We should take over these companies and demand vehicles that are fuel efficient, and built to last more than 5 years. Have you driven a Ford Fusion? What a plastic, rattly shit-box. The one I drove had 1100 mi on it! Fucking pathetic.
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Kalyke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #8
17. I have and Fusion's are better built that those plastic, ratty
over-priced bubbles known as Prius.

:puke: I HATE Toyota: the most recalled cars in America.
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EnviroBat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #17
28. Sorry to piss in your Wheaties, but you may not want to read this...
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MelissaB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #17
33. I have a Ford Expedition and a Prius.
Let me tell you, the Pruis is no over-priced bubble. I only paid $21k for this car, and it's the best car we've ever had on top of saving big $$ on gas.

Not.One.Problem.With.The.Pruis. Don't ask about the Expedition which I love for other reasons.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #17
38. Quick look shows me Toyota's haven't been in "most recalled" recently
Overall, in numbers, looks like VW is top with Toyota coming in second with half as many, in recent yrs.

http://images.businessweek.com/ss/07/08/0813_recall/index_01.htm
In 2006, General Motors recalled more new cars than anyone—over 900,000 in the U.S.

http://www.streetdirectory.com/travel_guide/49907/car_focus/the_most_recalled_car_of_2007_volkswagen_beetle.html
The Most Recalled Car of 2007: Volkswagen Beetle

http://autos.aol.com/gallery/2007-most-recalled-cars
Their top 10: Beetle, Toyota Tundra/Sequoia, Dodge Nitro/Jeep Wrangler, Honda Civic, Jeep Liberty, Nissan Altima, Hyundai Tuscon, Jeep Wrangler/Dodge Nitro, Suzuki Forenza & Reno, Volkswagen Passat & Passat Wagon

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Kalyke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
18. As I said the first time this was posted
I hate foreign cars. I live in 2008, not 1988. American cars aren't pieces of crap. My Ford is better than the in-laws and hubby's "check engine light every two minutes" foreign cars.

Sorry, don't agree with his basic assumption that American cars are crap. His may have been, but most aren't. I, however, find most foreign cars to be more expensive, harder to fix and breaking down more regularly.

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tomreedtoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #18
30. Sorry, you're wrong and so are Detroit's dictators.
I have driven both, and I still like my 1994 Toyota Camry wagon. I've rented 2008 American cars (because car companies force the rental agents to take Detroit Rust) and they're shaky, weird constructions that are less comfortable than airline seats.

I know you're union. So am I. I don't want you to lose your job any more than me losing mine. But you can't support the idiots that design cars and operate their business like it was a shell game.

Moore is right that Detroit should make trains, trolleys, busses and other forms of mass transportation. Sadly, everyone in Detroit is too stupid to make them. They will have to get help from the foreign companies that DO know how to make them - like license the plans for trains from Luxembourg or whatever. And those may well end up like the Chinese copies of Honda scooters - they look the same, but they're crap that falls apart quick.

Remember the Tylenol poisonings? Remember how Tylenol had to institute safety seals and guarantee things and bend over a dumpster before anyone would take a Tylenol product again? That's what Detroit will have to do before anyone will buy their products again.

Ford, Anti-Christler and GM have the reputation of Extra Strength Tylenol. They will have to rethink their entire lives and become honorable before we will trust them again.
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blue_onyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #18
40. I hate this assumption that American cars are crap too
Edited on Wed Dec-03-08 11:53 AM by BreatheOnMe
It's disappointing that Michael continues this "American cars are inferior" stuff...especially since he's is from Michigan. My cousin had a Honda Civic and I was in it a few times. I seriously don't get what people see in it. I was not impressed. Based on how people swoon over Honda, I was expecting this fantastic, luxurious ride and I found it loud and uncomfortable (the seats were the most uncomfortable I've ever been in). I was more impressed in my other cousin's Hyundai than I was with the Honda.

I disagree with Michael that it would be throwing money down the drain to help the US auto companies. The companies simply need money to help them through the credit crunch. I also don't understand his idea that the US companies should build trains, bus, etc. They should focus on it's primary business of building cars. I usually agree with Michael but I think he's is completely off the mark with this one.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #18
41. Last Ford I had was a Tempo, pyro car. Kept trying to burn itself up.
Finally managed to catch fire behind the dashboard (shorting out light switch). Turns out the first 2 yrs of them had been recalled due to this, my yr hadn't. Yet. I'm just glad it happened when I was in it, not sitting by my house and burning it down.

It was a nice little car, I got it to replace a small Ford truck which had bits from Mexico. First time I'd heard of "USA" cars being put together in not-USA.

Once the pyro-car burnt, I decided that I really didn't like Fords any more.
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pipoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #18
42. It has been the Big 3 marketing
strategy for decades. Sell cars with known flaws (to ensure future parts and service sales), don't admit a problem (to avoid liability), continue building the same flaws as long as possible, usually for years (to continue selling the same replacement parts and repairs), depend heavily on the sale of these replacement parts (to artificially inflate stock prices) and repairs (to artificially prop up the dealers service departments), repeat with every model.

The reason Toyota has the most recalls is because at the first sign of a problem they recall to avoid more problems. They retool and fix the problem often mid model year. If you look at consumer reports used car buyers guide you will find identical quality issues model year after model year on the same models. If you look at Toyota's models you will see that rarely is the same issue carried over.

Without looking the most glaring example I can think of was the GM "tech 4" engine. It was originally produced with brass/bronze cam bushings. These bushings were good for around 30k miles, about the length of the warranty. Aftermarket replacements were steel as they should be and would outlast the car. The tech 4 was built for nearly a decade with this same problem built right in every model year even though the replacement would have been pennies...intentional. There are similar examples on nearly every model produced by the big 3. The big 3 rarely voluntarily recalls anything. Why? Because the flaws were intentionally engineered into the product and parts sales/service is so vitally important to their bottom line.

Some of the severe issues from the late 70's and 80's have been addressed and later model big 3 models aren't as trouble prone as the cars produced then but too little too late. They squandered the good will of American consumers then and likely will never get it back. And they are still too heavily dependent on parts sales/service revenues to completely devote themselves to quality.

Just my opinion but I do believe it has merit.
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MelissaB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
31. Complete email:
Saving the Big 3 for You and Me ...a message from Michael Moore

Wednesday, December 3rd, 2008

Friends,

I drive an American car. It's a Chrysler. That's not an endorsement. It's more like a cry for pity. And now for a decades-old story, retold ad infinitum by tens of millions of Americans, a third of whom have had to desert their country to simply find a damn way to get to work in something that won't break down:

My Chrysler is four years old. I bought it because of its smooth and comfortable ride. Daimler-Benz owned the company then and had the good grace to place the Chrysler chassis on a Mercedes axle and, man, was that a sweet ride!

When it would start.

More than a dozen times in these years, the car has simply died. Batteries have been replaced, but that wasn't the problem. My dad drives the same model. His car has died many times, too. Just won't start, for no reason at all.

A few weeks ago, I took my Chrysler in to the Chrysler dealer here in northern Michigan -- and the latest fixes cost me $1,400. The next day, the vehicle wouldn't start. When I got it going, the brake warning light came on. And on and on.

You might assume from this that I couldn't give a rat's ass about these miserably inept crapmobile makers down the road in Detroit city. But I do care. I care about the millions whose lives and livelihoods depend on these car companies. I care about the security and defense of this country because the world is running out of oil -- and when it runs out, the calamity and collapse that will take place will make the current recession/depression look like a Tommy Tune musical.

And I care about what happens with the Big 3 because they are more responsible than almost anyone for the destruction of our fragile atmosphere and the daily melting of our polar ice caps.

Congress must save the industrial infrastructure that these companies control and the jobs they create. And it must save the world from the internal combustion engine. This great, vast manufacturing network can redeem itself by building mass transit and electric/hybrid cars, and the kind of transportation we need for the 21st century.

And Congress must do all this by NOT giving GM, Ford and Chrysler the $34 billion they are asking for in "loans" (a few days ago they only wanted $25 billion; that's how stupid they are -- they don't even know how much they really need to make this month's payroll. If you or I tried to get a loan from the bank this way, not only would we be thrown out on our ear, the bank would place us on some sort of credit rating blacklist).

Two weeks ago, the CEOs of the Big 3 were tarred and feathered before a Congressional committee who sneered at them in a way far different than when the heads of the financial industry showed up two months earlier. At that time, the politicians tripped over each other in their swoon for Wall Street and its Ponzi schemers who had concocted Byzantine ways to bet other people's money on unregulated credit default swaps, known in the common vernacular as unicorns and fairies.

But the Detroit boys were from the Midwest, the Rust (yuk!) Belt, where they made real things that consumers needed and could touch and buy, and that continually recycled money into the economy (shocking!), produced unions that created the middle class, and fixed my teeth for free when I was ten.

For all of that, the auto heads had to sit there in November and be ridiculed about how they traveled to D.C. Yes, they flew on their corporate jets, just like the bankers and Wall Street thieves did in October. But, hey, THAT was OK! They're the Masters of the Universe! Nothing but the best chariots for Big Finance as they set about to loot our nation's treasury.

Of course, the auto magnates used be the Masters who ruled the world. They were the pulsating hub that all other industries -- steel, oil, cement contractors -- served. Fifty-five years ago, the president of GM sat on that same Capitol Hill and bluntly told Congress, what's good for General Motors is good for the country. Because, you see, in their minds, GM WAS the country.

What a long, sad fall from grace we witnessed on November 19th when the three blind mice had their knuckles slapped and then were sent back home to write an essay called, "Why You Should Give Me Billions of Dollars of Free Cash." They were also asked if they would work for a dollar a year. Take that! What a big, brave Congress they are! Requesting indentured servitude from (still) three of the most powerful men in the world. This from a spineless body that won't dare stand up to a disgraced president nor turn down a single funding request for a war that neither they nor the American public support. Amazing.

Let me just state the obvious: Every single dollar Congress gives these three companies will be flushed right down the toilet. There is nothing the management teams of the Big 3 are going to do to convince people to go out during a recession and buy their big, gas-guzzling, inferior products. Just forget it. And, as sure as I am that the Ford family-owned Detroit Lions are not going to the Super Bowl -- ever -- I can guarantee you, after they burn through this $34 billion, they'll be back for another $34 billion next summer.

So what to do? Members of Congress, here's what I propose:

1. Transporting Americans is and should be one of the most important functions our government must address. And because we are facing a massive economic, energy and environmental crisis, the new president and Congress must do what Franklin Roosevelt did when he was faced with a crisis (and ordered the auto industry to stop building cars and instead build tanks and planes): The Big 3 are, from this point forward, to build only cars that are not primarily dependent on oil and, more importantly to build trains, buses, subways and light rail (a corresponding public works project across the country will build the rail lines and tracks). This will not only save jobs, but create millions of new ones.

2. You could buy ALL the common shares of stock in General Motors for less than $3 billion. Why should we give GM $18 billion or $25 billion or anything? Take the money and buy the company! (You're going to demand collateral anyway if you give them the "loan," and because we know they will default on that loan, you're going to own the company in the end as it is. So why wait? Just buy them out now.)

3. None of us want government officials running a car company, but there are some very smart transportation geniuses who could be hired to do this. We need a Marshall Plan to switch us off oil-dependent vehicles and get us into the 21st century.

This proposal is not radical or rocket science. It just takes one of the smartest people ever to run for the presidency to pull it off. What I'm proposing has worked before. The national rail system was in shambles in the '70s. The government took it over. A decade later it was turning a profit, so the government returned it to private/public hands, and got a couple billion dollars put back in the treasury.

This proposal will save our industrial infrastructure -- and millions of jobs. More importantly, it will create millions more. It literally could pull us out of this recession.

In contrast, yesterday General Motors presented its restructuring proposal to Congress. They promised, if Congress gave them $18 billion now, they would, in turn, eliminate around 20,000 jobs. You read that right. We give them billions so they can throw more Americans out of work. That's been their Big Idea for the last 30 years -- layoff thousands in order to protect profits. But no one ever stopped to ask this question: If you throw everyone out of work, who's going to have the money to go out and buy a car?

These idiots don't deserve a dime. Fire all of them, and take over the industry for the good of the workers, the country and the planet.

What's good for General Motors IS good for the country. Once the country is calling the shots.

Yours,
Michael Moore
[email protected]
MichaelMoore.com

P.S. I will be on Keith Olbermann tonight (8pm/10pm/midnight ET) to discuss this further on MSNBC.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
36. K&R for the only workable plan to solve the problem.
I would also add about $100Billion in cost plus contracts to begin the rebuilding and upgrading of our rail system to World Class levels.



The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
39. Build infrastructure, rather than waste money on a dead industry? What a novel idea.
Has anyone asked the geniuses from the Big 3 how they intend to pay back the loan when nobody will be buying cars of any kind during a worldwide recession?

It's the P.T. Barnum way of running a business. Get the suckers to finance the making of products they don't want and won't buy until we can sucker them into giving us more money.
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jtrockville Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
43. I'll look forward to KO tonight.
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