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I blame the terrorists for terror, but we fed the beast. A history.

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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 04:00 AM
Original message
I blame the terrorists for terror, but we fed the beast. A history.
In 1999, the Pentagon wargamed an invasion of Iraq:

from the National Security archives at George Washington University
Post-Saddam Iraq - The War Game
"Desert Crossing" 1999 Assumed 400,000 Troops and Still a Mess




Anthony Zinni (ret.), conducted a series of war games known as Desert Crossing in order to assess potential outcomes of an invasion of Iraq aimed at unseating Saddam Hussein...

The results of Desert Crossing... drew pessimistic conclusions regarding the immediate possible outcomes of such action. Some of these conclusions are interestingly similar to the events which actually occurred after Saddam was overthrown. The report forewarned that regime change may cause regional instability by opening the doors to "rival forces bidding for power" which, in turn, could cause societal "fragmentation along religious and/or ethnic lines" and antagonize "aggressive neighbors." Further, the report illuminated worries that secure borders and a restoration of civil order may not be enough to stabilize Iraq if the replacement government were perceived as weak, subservient to outside powers, or out of touch with other regional governments. An exit strategy, the report said, would also be complicated by differing visions for a post-Saddam Iraq among those involved in the conflict.

(full report)

Among those "interesting similarities" would be the radicalization of the Pakistan-India conflict, the expansion of Iranian regional clout and real power, the destabilization of world oil markets, and the renaissance of al-Qaeda despite the pummeling it just took in Afghanistan.

As the Sydney Morning Herald reported in 2006:
In its Desert Crossing games, 70 military, diplomatic and intelligence officials assumed the high troop levels would be needed to keep order, seal borders and take care of other security needs.

"The conventional wisdom is the US mistake in Iraq was not enough troops," said Thomas Blanton, the archive's director. "But the Desert Crossing war game in 1999 suggests we would have ended up with a failed state even with 400,000 troops."

About 144,000 US troops are now in Iraq, down from a peak of about 160,000 in January.

After 9/11 the world stood with the United States. In less than two years George Bush destroyed all that good will with America's singular, dishonest, and reckless destruction of Iraq for what the whole world knew lay undrilled beneath Iraq's terrain.

Our enemies in the region exploded, because of Iraq and because of George Bush. The Iraqi people bled and died as pawns in a power vacuum created by George Bush. American, Saudi, Kuwaiti, Iranian, and Syrian backed forces jostled for power and lay that nation to waste while George Bush took no serious steps to quell the violence. Al-Qaeda came to Iraq and expanded its cells around the world, always growing both weaker and wider in a sickening paradox. Neighbors turned on neighbors and violence and disease spread, while Americans lost interest and turned off CNN.

Under constraints of inadequate manpower, faulty equipment, and lack of centralized planning, I think it says something about the abilities of our troops on the ground and of the strength of America's residual goodwill in the world that Iraq and the region around it didn't get much much worse, as was foreseen by Zinni's 1999 wargame. Against all odds the center held and shockingly George Bush took the credit, even when he was too busy to greet the coffins coming home.

It was not until he lost Congress that he allowed even an outdated token of wisdom to infect his Iraq policy. He granted a tiny token surge and redeployed US troops in-country back to the hottest hotspots.

Of course the surge raised those total troop numbers just a bit, but they never reached anywhere near the 400,000 that the Desert Crossing exercise had assumed the working minimum. Desert Crossing also assumed that such an invasion would have enlisted the support of several key hemispheric allies--like Turkey and the rest of NATO--before dropping US troops into that stew pot. But it was too late for that too.

What was he thinking to do all this? Only two explanations exist for this insanity. Either the logic of Donald Rumsfeld's hard-held (and irrational) faith in the brilliant future of low-manpower missions won over the entire Bush war council... or they wanted the mission to fail. Since we know they planned to invade other countries after Iraq (like Iran, Somalia, Syria), we have to conclude that the whole bunch of them simply bought into Rumsfeld's delusions because it suited what they wanted to believe.

Imagine that mindset for a second: thousands were dying and still they chose to ignore facts and embrace their prejudices.

But why would they want to believe in a policy so apparently opposed to reality and common sense? Well, folks, despite the vague perverted reassurance we've felt these last 8 years that, regardless of his evil plans, at least someone as smart & tough as Cheney was calling the shots in the White House... they all actually were taking their intellectual cues from George W Bush. He wasn't Cheney's puppet; he wasn't Rove's. They actually let him be in charge. They were grown ups, many of them with post graduate degrees, who had taken oaths to protect this country and yet they still let George Bush have whatever he wanted.

And here's what he wanted (from Russ Baker's piece in Common Dreams):
Two years before the September 11 attacks, presidential candidate George W. Bush was already talking privately about the political benefits of attacking Iraq, according to his former ghost writer, who held many conversations with then-Texas Governor Bush in preparation for a planned autobiography.

"He was thinking about invading Iraq in 1999," said author and journalist Mickey Herskowitz. "It was on his mind. He said to me: 'One of the keys to being seen as a great leader is to be seen as a commander-in-chief.' And he said, 'My father had all this political capital built up when he drove the Iraqis out of Kuwait and he wasted it.' He said, 'If I have a chance to invade, if I had that much capital, I'm not going to waste it. I'm going to get everything passed that I want to get passed and I'm going to have a successful presidency." ...

In aggressive military action, he saw the opportunity to emerge from his father's shadow...

According to Herskowitz, George W. Bush's beliefs on Iraq were based in part on a notion dating back to the Reagan White House - ascribed in part to now-vice president Dick Cheney, Chairman of the House Republican Policy Committee under Reagan. "Start a small war. Pick a country where there is justification you can jump on, go ahead and invade."

Bush's circle of pre-election advisers had a fixation on the political capital that British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher collected from the Falklands War. Said Herskowitz: "They were just absolutely blown away, just enthralled by the scenes of the troops coming back, of the boats, people throwing flowers at {Thatcher} and her getting these standing ovations in Parliament and making these magnificent speeches."

(full story)


It was a positively Romantic notion Bush held, a fantasy of omnipotence--like a child playing war with toy tanks and toy soldiers that just happened to reallly bleed. As Russ Baker explained in a later article at TomPaine.com, the fantasizing, and the public denial of his fantasies, continued up through the planning for Iraq:
Despite such mounting evidence {as the Downing Street Memos}, Bush resolutely maintains total denial. In fact, when a British reporter asked the president recently about the Downing Street documents, Bush painted himself as a reluctant warrior. "Both of us didn't want to use our military," he said, answering for himself and British Prime Minister Blair. "Nobody wants to commit military into combat. It's the last option."

Yet there's evidence that Bush not only deliberately relied on false intelligence to justify an attack, but that he would have willingly used any excuse at all to invade Iraq. And that he was obsessed with the notion well before 9/11—indeed, even before he became president in early 2001.

(full story)


When the Bushies pranced into the White House eight years ago, they were full of childish pronouncements like "the grown ups are finally in charge." Of course an adult wouldn't have to assert he was "all grown up." Thanks to 9/11 and his (again) immature willingness to exploit it, no one challenged the boy-president for over four years--not the press, not the preening sycophants he brought in to run our country, not even the Democratic leadership. Those who did raise their voices... well, we didn't raise them loud enough or use them effectively enough. The insanity spread for years.

By now, thousands of Americans have died; tens of thousands face life-altering injuries; at least tens but probably hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have died because of this man's vanity. The blood is impossible to measure and the death tallies are too large to count. The odds are wildly against him ever being held to account for the damage he has done, if mostly because the worst of it was done by the hands of our enemies whom he has merely made stronger with his ignorance and obstinacy.

But there are more crimes still--moral and de jure--the politicization of the Justice Department and other bureaucracies, the authorization of torture, the betrayal of state secrets, the abuse of civil rights, the bungling of the Katrina crisis, the incitement of deep social divisions, the looting of the public treasury, the decay of social and commercial infrastructure, and finally the exaltation of political dishonesty. The depths of this president's combined tyranny and incompetence boggle the mind. How have we survived this? We must be established on a very firm foundations. His term draws too slowly to an end and the world celebrates, confident that America will do better now. Yet where does that faith come from? How is it we're able to elect one good man president only now and suddenly hope reignites? Yet that seems to be the news from the world: there's a real expectation of curtailing tyranny and terror now. Rebuilding prosperity at home seems within our grasp.

I believe it; I love it, but I do not understand it. In a very technical sense, I have faith in America. And so I live in gratitude. I think I see much of the rest of the world doing the same.

Bad as it's gotten; abused as we are... the world's people cling to hope and smile at the smallest steps toward progress. Because of one election, the world welcomes America and the American example home, like optimism is their birthright, like happy endings are inevitable. We elect one good guy once and before he even gets close to taking over, a whole planet seems to breathe a sigh of relief. We should be awed by their faith in us; we should be humbled.

For all the horrors done in my name; for all the suffering caused directly and indirectly by my tax dollars; for all the terrorists motivated, recruited, and armed by the hatred of George W Bush's policies; for all the damage Bush did to America's reputation and good will, humanity still--and perhaps naively still--looks to the United States to lead the way to a better tomorrow. How can this be? How are we all so lucky that the world hasn't risen yet in arms to topple the last standing superpower? History all but demands this to happen. And yet they don't turn on us.

I don't have any answers for these questions. I only know I'm thankful this autumn that my country woke up enough to dump the neocons. I'm thankful that the world is tolerant and peaceful enough to let its leading superpower screw up this bad and still get a second chance. I'm grateful that hope is stronger than despair and jealousy combined. It gives me confidence that the violent nihilists who murdered dozens of innocents in India this week solely for the thrill of creating havok will lose their struggle. Those who seek to build peace have the power to be stronger if only the peaceful sides find the leaders to guide the way. That's one hell of an endorsement of human nature.

For eight years Americans have been shackled to a leader who has no such faith in the goodness of people. Despite his words, his policies have broadcast his true beliefs--that people are worthless and terror is strength. That pawns are expendable and wealth is its own reward. Many throughout the world, both our enemies and our allies, followed his sick lead or bent to his will. They marched, they plotted, they lied, they made others bleed, and a vicious few drew profits from the blood.

Now we have a chance to do it different. The world, the west, our country, our party, even just my few readers here at DU--we have another chance to help our democracy be a force for hope in the human journey. It's a long uncertain road. It runs through the dark terrain beyond our sight. I don't know the course we'll take--we'll probably disagree with each other a lot at each fork in the road. But incredibly, undeservedly, we have a new chance in the years ahead to fix the wrongs and build the hopes that make life sweet and loving. It's not a done deal; the game hasn't changed that much. In so many ways, from so many perspectives, Barrack Obama is just a cosmetic change from the dull piracy of George Bush. He's just a man, a politician in a suit, a deal-cutter, a millionaire with a gift for oratory and a candor that is less than perfect. The USA is still an empire and our enemies have not weakened yet. We still stand ready to bomb our enemies and we know collateral blood will stain his hands too. The real differences come back down to stylistics and hope.

Of course, hope matters one hell of a lot.

So I'm just saying that, for me, I hope we, as a country, as a people, use this chance that history is granting us to make better choices this time around. We are blessed with great power and we have used it badly. We have not truly atoned for our sins. I don't think we have the political will or resilience to atone for what our president has done. The collateral blood stains my hands too.

Yet my hope trumps all that. I want to commit my one little voice in DU toward pushing for a saner and kinder world. I believe we'll be mostly successful in all that. I'm just writing this tonight so that I don't ever forget the past that brought us here.


--Bucky Rea
   Houston, Texas
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frog92969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 05:05 AM
Response to Original message
1. K&R
:thumbsup:
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. thanks,
a frog kick is always worth more to me
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 05:10 AM
Response to Original message
2. Kick and rec for some history. n/t
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 06:45 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Thank, CW
I sling history for a living, but it takes special post-operative painkillers to make me this yakky.
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
26. LOL! Whatever it takes! n/t
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 05:18 AM
Response to Original message
3. Very well done!
I appreciate the effort that went into putting this together. Nominated, of course.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 06:49 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. A few we pour our hearts into
A few are just sitting in us and are begging to come out.

Keep sluggin', H20 Man. You're a big part of this joint.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 07:09 AM
Response to Original message
6. I worked with Russ on his upcoming book, Family of Secrets.
Edited on Sat Nov-29-08 07:13 AM by leveymg
Look for Family of Secrets: The Bush Dynasty, the Powerful Forces That Put It in the White House, and What Their Influence Means for America , Bloomsbury Publishing (Hardcover)by Russ Baker, release date January 6, 2009. http://www.amazon.com/Family-Secrets-Dynasty-Powerful-Influence/dp/1596915579

Russ did some amazing research into the Bush family, and their ties to the most sinister elements in U.S. intelligence and the Republican Party. I can guarantee that this one will blow your socks off.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. He's definitely writing with an eye toward history (where W foolishly thinks he'll be vindicated)
It's just such a deadly shame that there wasn't a paying market for this sort of story back when reporting it might've saved some lives.
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Dangerously Amused Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
9. Wow, one of the better articles I've read here.


Concise, well written, fully cited. Well done! And thank you. K&R.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. Thanks. I live for props like that
Edited on Sat Nov-29-08 01:00 PM by Bucky
You know, I took a lot of painkillers before writing this. I wonder if I should get loaded before all my postings here.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
10. Rec. Thanks Bucky. nm
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
11. Its LONG overdue that the US looks in the mirror
Unfortunately, if Obama decides to send 20,000 more of our kids into Afghanistan, it will be more of the same crap.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. I know it's more risk and I know it's more war. I'm tired of it too. But...
The guy who sponsored the murders of 2900 people on our shores is still at large--no thanks to Bush & flunkies--and so are the medieval bastards who warehoused him and his sick organization. I want to see them brought in and punished before it's too late. We should've never fought the diversionary war in Iraq, but the enemy in Afghanistan is real and they're still there and getting stronger. We cannot let them just go on their way.
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. afghanistan being surged has nothing to do with bin laden
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. So you're telling me Obama has sold out to the man already? Let me guess...
I don't think you can read my OP and say I'm simply swallowing the propaganda. I said specifically that we are an empire still; that part of our relationship to the world hasn't and won't change. Certainly the statement Obama (or I) would make that Afghanistan is part of our vital interests isn't going to be either 100% about their resources or 100% about the bandits hiding near their border.

If you wanna argue with me, that's cool, but understand that I can't buy into an unnuanced view of the world. Where our troops go, our businesspeople often follow. That doesn't mean we're only there to loot somebody else's oil. But I don't see how you can deny that Obama's primary purpose in sending more troops into Afghanistan is mostly about getting bin Laden and rooting out the Taliban insurgency that Bush & Rumsfeld allowed to fester there.

Obama has said that's the main purpose or going in there. If you don't think that's what he really after, then that's not "propaganda" as you call it; it's just a lie. So let me ask you, do you think Obama is lying about wanting to go after the Taliban and al-Qaeda -- or do you think that going after them is just a small facet of his larger goal: building pipelines through that country?

I see you've linked me to another thread here in DU that has cut and pasted about 27 pages of Congressional testimony from 1999. Is there some specific point you wanted to make from that 27 pages, or do you just expect me to read the whole thing and guess at what it is you think the 2009 surge is really about?
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. where our troops go our businesspeople will follow?
Edited on Sat Nov-29-08 03:50 PM by Mari333
we have troops now who have been deployed 5 and 6 times in a row. its time to bring them all home. obama is wrong on this one. no, i do not trust his operatives around him on this advice. afghanistan is a no win scenario. and yes, i do not trust obama any more then any other politician. corporate interests run wars, and if corporate interests are why we are in afghanistan, which i believe we are, then they can hire their own personal security guards to keep their pipelines safe and leave our tax dollars and the troops out of it.
we will agree to disagree.


Obama;s wrong turn on Afghanistan

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat/337748
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Well you made your point clearer, but you didn't answer my questions
1) are you okay with letting bin Laden go free after he financed and took credit for the 9/11 attacks? Are you willing to let the Taliban got free and possibly take over a larger section of Afghanistan?

2) Do you contend that Obama is lying when he says getting bin Laden is his number one priority in the war on terror?


As for your incredulity with the statement "where our troops go our businesspeople will follow?"...

I'll thank you to name any successful war--meaning a war in which the two warring sides ended up in the long run conducting normal, peaceful relations--in which there was no follow up to the fighting with the barter and truck of goods between the former opponents?

Nope, my contention is that the opposite of war isn't peace; the opposite of war is engaging in trade. Now, do I want it to be exploitative trade or business practices that abuse and oppress the people of Afghanistan? No, and I would hope that Obama is smart enough to regulate the business going on over there so that the Afghan people are not taken advantage of.

But if you don't trade, that's not truly peace--it's isolation--and we know from experience that isolating Afghanistan doesn't lead to peace--it leads to extremism and heroin exportation.

So, yes, some kind of commercial interaction is going to take place in a global age. The question is whether the impact we have there is merely kill the bad guys who killed our people (you may find that an open option but assure you the rest of our democracy does not) and then leave, or if we take out the Taliban and al-Qaeda and then start to help the Afghanis put in place a national organization and government that allows them to compete on an even footing with their neighbors.

It's called nation building. And it's something we can do by accidental bumbling (such as Bush tried) or by careful planning--such as most Democrats and hopefully Obama wants to do.
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. nation building is the same meme that bush used
Edited on Sat Nov-29-08 05:34 PM by Mari333
its not the responsibility of the us govt to use taxpayer dollars to build other peoples nations, we have a history of puppet govts (see:iran) and it always backfires.
no, i do not agree with obama on this. and just because its obama doesnt mean he cannot be criticized for it.
i would follow the money and see where it leads, because war is pretty much that..a scam.
i am amazed that people on DU think just because its Obama means he can do no wrong, or not be held by corporate interests. he can and in this case, I think he is in someone's pocket.
the military industrial complex needs wars to keep its coffers full, its corporations humming, and its bank accounts flush.
unfortunately our kids are the ones who pay with their lives to keep these corporatists happy.
We need to build the US, and keep our taxes here, building the infrastructure and creating jobs.
we are not the worlds police.
as for the heroin trade, its flourishing now more then ever, despite nato being there.
again, we shall see. and again, follow the money, because that usually is where one finds the real reasons for any war today.

war on taliban cannot be won says army chief

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article4882597.ece
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. Actually it came from Clinton & it stopped the killing in ex-Yugoslav states
Failing to nation-build Afghanistan after the Soviets were driven off is exactly why the Taliban could terrorize that country and eventually support al-Qaeda cells that murdered people in Indonesia, Spain, England, New York, Virginia, Somalia, Saudi Arabia, Tunisia, and even set up a spin off group in Iraq. Once reason they got into Iraq so quickly is that George Bush--despite his rhetoric--actually didn't do any real nation building there in 2003 (or in Afghanistan after 2001).

In fact Bush specifically denounced nation building in 2000, made it sound like adventurism. That little prejudice of his caused tens of thousands of deaths. When a state fails and its people start suffering, it's inhumane to not send them some kind of aid--the materials & expertise it will take to construct sound central government and sound semiautonomous communities that can defend themselves and find productive work for their communities.

It's silly I'd have to say this, but I agree, obviously, that it's okay to criticize Obama--I expect most of us will have an opportunity to do so over the next few years. Based on what you said, I did a quick search of the DU discussion boards and I was unable to find the phrase "Obama can do no wrong." What I find instead is a growing unease with his string of centrist & pro-war appointments.

But then he was always a centrist-- they didn't call him a "School of Chicago liberal" for nothing. When my candidate dropped out last winter and I had to choose between him, Clinton, and Edwards, went ahead and picked Obama because he best seemed to understand the Madisonian idea that a large republic succeeds by striking a balance among numerous competing interests; there are no permanent majorities.

And yes, the Military Industrial Complex is one of those interest groups. Sometimes we have to cut deals with them. I don't doubt Obama has done exactly that, for whatever reasons; I suspected it from the moment that people started rumoring that Bob Gates would stay on as Defense Secretary. This is exactly what he was hired to do: govern, cut deals, rebuild our infrastructure without abandoning the American role in international affairs as you suggest.

I don't believe in world government, but the leading powers of the world community do need to work together to stabilize the weak countries that can become breading grounds for extremists, human rights abuses, genocide, terror, famine, and piracy. That's why nations like Lebanon, North Korea, Iraq, Somalia, the Gaza Strip and other sites of human rights abuse have to be rebuilt & stabilized--that's nation nation building. If the United States, as a world partner, craps out on our moral commitment to those places, communities will continue to be torn apart, innocent millions will continue to die needlessly, others will turn to more violence in their despair.

So, yeah, Obama is going to go after al Qaeda and he's going to engage in nation building in Afghanistan and they might even build a pipeline or two in there along the way. That's what the US has to do if we want stand against the creeping evils in the world. Pulling away from the world and only "taking care of our own" isn't even possible in the world. If we want Obama to have enough power to push for a stronger human rights agenda while the world community's work goes on, liberals have to be engaged in and relevant to the process.

But you probably knew that. Obama's election wasn't the finish line, it was just the kicking off point.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
12. "We should be awed by their faith in us; we should be humbled."
Yes.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. I struggled with that thought
Not just cause I was popping hydrocodone as I typed, but because I know historically Americans don't do "humble" very good. It's usually used as a mask for arrogance (as when GW Bush said "We are a humble nation" in the 2000 debate against Gore). But I know part of my luck in being American rests on the trust others place in me. We owe it to the world to elect good leaders and then hold them to account for the footprints we inevitably leave in the world--both good and bad.
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grace0418 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
13. K&R
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
14. A very good read in many ways. Should be on Greatest Page
but, sadly much "two-lined crap" gets up there with 65 recommendations.

I worry that many DU'ers have lost their ability to read past a Subject Line. But then, there is so much to read elsewhere these days.

Anyway, thanks for this very interesting piece.

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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. I'm doing my best, KoKo
but I never got around to registering any sock puppets to applaud myself.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #18
28. It's all we can do....
:kick:
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
20. Great Read Bucky!
It will be pieces like yours that will ensure that * legacy is not swept under the rug and glossed over.

K & R
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Thanks. It will also be part of the last weeks of history lessons I'll teach for the next 20 years
Assuming I can survive another 20 years of teaching, that is.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
23. Interesting Slate article on Bush's psychology that helps explain why he makes such bad choices
http://www.slate.com/id/2205567/

I've always assumed he's paranoid because he's dumb. Jacob Weisberg argues that it's more a case of him being dumb because he's paranoid.

Those might possibly be oversimplified terms.
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. It reminds you of another figure in history doesn't it.?
No matter how you try to draw differences between the two the more similar they are!!
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newtothegame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
29. All the news stories about this attack say there were "hostages"...
But they just killed everybody. How are those hostages? Were they actually trying to accomplish something or just kill everybody?
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
31. Frankly the roots of this go much further back than the nineties
It's tied up in how we treated the mujahideen after the Russian invasion of Afghanistan, and back into the CIA and NSA ties to the heroin market during the sixties, seventies and beyond. An excellent book to read about the situation leading up to this is Alfred McCoy's "The Politics of Heroin"
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Orwellian_Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Yes
Great book. Essential reading for those interested in geopolitics.

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Orwellian_Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
34. Here is some recommended reading on the topic of Iraqi history
and great detail into the workings which occurred and led up to Desert Storm:



For a longer look at the history of the region:

History of Oil in Iraq

Lord Curzon, the British Foreign Secretary, denied that oil interests influenced policy in Iraq, but the archives show that the British government rushed troops to Mosul in 1918 to gain control of the northern oil fields. Britain and France clashed over Iraq's oil during the Versailles Conference and after, but Britain eventually took the lion’s share by turning its military victories into colonial rule. The powerful Iraq Petroleum Company, in which US and French firms held minority positions, acted always in the cartel interests of the Anglo-American companies. To the furty of the Iraqis and the French, it held down production to maximize profits elswhere. The company kept a monopoly of Iraq’s oil sector until nationalization in 1972.

The Early Struggle Over Iraq's Oil | Oil in Iraq: The Role of the International Oil Industry | Nationalization in Iraq/ British Colonialism and Repression in Iraq | British Colonialism and the Kurds
Gulf War and a Decade of Sanctions | US and British Support for Hussein Regime

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/history/oilhistindex.htm
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-01-08 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #34
37. Thanks. I'll bookmark this
Learning about the real world is a form of addiction.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
35. Excellent post!
Thank you for it. We have played a huge role in the entire current Middle East situation and continue to do so. And, everything that happens there has a very big impact on this country, despite the indifference, disinterest and ignorance of many Americans, including many at DU it seems. I had hoped that after 9/11 we would as a country realize this, but it seems not even that has made us aware. Perhaps President Obama can help in this area.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-30-08 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
36. ...
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