Well it is not over...in India... we went to dinner and home

[nadinbrzezinski]

and find out that this is far from over

The Chabad house was not taken over by the authorities and the IDF is sending a SpecOps team... (by the way for those who do not know this, the Israelis and the Indians are strategic allies)

We have no clue who this new group is, or why they did this (though Deepak Chopra is a specialist in World Terror, who knew?)

Reality is that this will get ugly and whatever cooperation existed with the ISI is probably over, given the PM came this close to blaming Pakistan for this

Oh and this is a critical point... you can bet your ass this will influence the incoming administration's foreign policy...

[hlthe2b]

1. You're not in India, are you, Nadinbrzezinski?

Hoping for the best.... This has already gotten ugly, unfortunately. And, I for one am just as concerned about the fate of Indians and others, than US and other westerners-- which seems to be all our abhorrent media wants to focus on.

Peace seems such a far off ideal, right now... :shrug:

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. Nah in San Diego

that said the reason the US Media is even covering this are the westerners... why they did take hostages

There have been a lot of attacks over the course of the year with nobody paying attention

If the attacks remained at the hospital and the transit station (perhaps even the Chabad House, since they are mostly LOCAL) you'd not have this attention

[Mojorabbit]

20. Weird as last night

Pakistan offered assistance and to share intelligence with India. The report said it was an unprecedented offer.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. That gave me hope and both nations may decide

to deal with this.

We can hope

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. Oh and Indian media is blaming the pakis

GREAT... two nuclear armed powers.... just great...

[spindrifter]

4. Apparently, Indian security has decided to lie low for

a while. You gotta ask yourself, what are the surviving terrorists on--some super-drug. They've been up and at it for well over 33 hours. At some point it's over for them.
Speculation is working over-time--apparently there was a large amount of explosives found in 2 locations that is of Russian origin.
The message these terrorists brought is pretty blurred, except they killed and injured a lot of people and brought one of the world's biggest cities to its knees.
Undoubtedly, there will be more tightening up on Indian civil liberties.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. The russian explosives are easy to get in the open weapons market

as well as AK =47s

These guys are probably taking shifts, and have staying power

Given the IDF specops are on their way, they may be waiting for that cavalry for the local police, or just the ever so popular pull back and try more word to word negotiations. Things like offering water and food work, at a very basic psychological level

Been in a couple stand offs myself, nothing this well organized, but negotiators at times pull back (or seem to) while reassessing whatever they are dong, and bringing in rested people and teams. In fact, I would not be too shocked if these guys DEMANDED that ambulances and fire rigs pull back... and that is an easy "concession" to make and fire and EMS personnel usually go... THANK YOU.

[spindrifter]

8. Current noise is that the terrorists are

British-born financed by a wealthy Indian who lives in Saudi Arabia.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. While the indian media is blaming the Pakis

I doubt they truly know

Of course a wealthy Indian could mean many things in the ethnic mix

[xchrom]

6. deepak is noty an exert -- simply offering a common sense approach.

let india and pakistan be interested in their people and partner on the problem.

india may very well be the mortar pakistan needs that they don't become a failed state.

easy to be a stupid snark shooter though.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Well it is thanksgiving, so getting that rolodex is hard to do

that said, I got a chuckle out of that interview,

He had some common sense points, but that's about it

[xchrom]

10. hey-- your in-put is certainly more stupid than his.

he deserves his rolex by that standard.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Why bother readying this then?

As i said he is NOT an anti-terror expert... and the only reason he was on was... he is Indian (in origin) and it is thanksgiving

His comments were run of the mill yes, we get it, and of course blame US policy for this... mimd you he has a small point, but if these were the Pakis, especially from the Punjab... it is FAR MORE COMPLEX than just the evil american US Policy International War on terror

[xchrom]

13. all the more reason then -- he didn't blame us policy

if that's what you got -- then all the relevance my original point about the stupidity of your comment remains.

bounded of course by a stupid comment regarding a rolodex.


and as far as my comments -- hey if you're going to offer a stupid OP then people will probably reply.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. You know what a ROLODEX is? Let me translate this

a ROLODEX is a CONTACT LIST..

Oh wait, you were thinking of a watch, weren't you?



And yes he did partly BLAME US policy in the ME (and has a small point) but it is far more complex than just that

And why are you STILL READYING this thread if you think this is stupid? And I stand by what I said... he is NOT an expert. just like I don't claim expertise either.

JEESUS AGE, people have nothing better to do I guess, but just because he was BORN and RAISED in India makes him an expert in the very complex issues between many an ethnic group in India

[xchrom]

18. ok -- you meant something by your initial rolodex comment and you know it.

you meant it to disqualify him on a number of fronts on what is arguably a left leaning site -- a stupid shallow comment in truth.

deepak by virtue of his birth and sensitivity to both hindu and muslim issues and his far more realistic portrayals than your's
speaks for itself.

if you are so nationalistic as to be stung by his comments -- then you need to take a valium, and learn to listen.

the biggest thrust of his comments were reserved for india and pakistan.

you want to make a stupid useless point about his rolodex.

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. So just because I was born and raised in Mexico City

and hold a Masters Degree in Mexican History, that makes me qualified to talk of CURRENT AFFAIRS in mexico?

Actually it does, but when it comes to the Ethnic problems and all that jazz... not really

And that is the point

He is qualified, as an American Citizen from INDIAN descent, but he is NOT a terror expert

Just as I am NOT a terror expert

Clear enough? The TERROR experts were NOT available since this is Thanksgiving...

Or are you trying still to tell us that just because he was born in India that makes him an unqualified expert in Terrorism operations?

For the record, since I have worked side by side with SECURITY FORCES I do have an INKLING, just an INKLING, not a full understanding, of what is going on. the BROAD STROKES OF IT... not the nitty gritty

Nor would I claim such...

Do you need me to bring the crayons here?

His perspective is welcomed, but it is NOT expert opinion... BIG difference

[xchrom]

22. if you need crayons for yourself -- great.

colour away.

all those blanket internet claims mean nothing -- deepak at least has a history i can track.
as opposed to your claims.

deepak has merely made and emphasized the points many of us have made -- the terror or conflict is not the strict purvey of the u.s.

as an 'expert' in mexican history -- i can imagine that has a resonance with you.

are you personally pissed they asked deepak and not you? -- sounds like it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. Want a link to my SDSU thesis?

Provided it in the past

And no, I am not happy that CNN presented him as an EXPERT in terrorism... which he is NOT

Now you DO NEED the crayons it seems

Hell here you go

http://www.worldcat.org/wcpa/ow/34157238

And you do know who Fray Servando Teresa de Mier Noriega y Guerra is right?

[xchrom]

24. deepak provided the view point that many others have said -- stop

with the u.s. dominated conflict with terror cells.

you purposely misstated what he said when you talk about a rolodex and the fact that cnn calls him a terrorist expert which they did not.

now if you need a better publicist for your own efforts -- get one.

and a set of crayons.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. If you are so bothered why the fuck are you still on this thread?

Valid question. I usually ignore threads that I don't like.. try the IGNORE BUTTON... it works.

Now shoo

And yes CNN misrepresented him

THAT IS A FACT

Damn it.. I am not looking for a publicists... you are readying WHAT YOU WANT... why who the fuck knows?

And when shown that AT LEAST the claims that are EASY to prove are true, you change your tact... yes virginia I did work with security forces... at one time, in Mexico NO LESS... and was a Paramedic... no less... but giving you a link to my service jacket would be a tad difficult.

My lord, it is as if you THINK you need to defend Deepak Chopra from an IMAGINARY ATTACK on his person, never mind that yes they got him today since I am sure the REAL experts are either busy at Langley and other places or celebrating with friends and family. This happens EVERY TIME there is a breaking story on a holiday, rolodexes GET THIN...

It is CNN, not Dr. Chopra

What got into the water at DU? People see imaginary attacks where there are none

Now go color some coloring books... and try to find imaginary attacks somewhere else!

[xchrom]

26. what the fuck are you talking abouit?

'We have no clue who this new group is, or why they did this (though Deepak Chopra is a specialist in World Terror, who knew?)
Reality is that this will get ugly and whatever cooperation existed with the ISI is probably over, given the PM came this close to blaming Pakistan for this;

deepak for all practical purposes make s a point you would make it seems -- except cnn asked him.

india and pakistan -- get over it and cooperate.

new? -- you know better than that -- this is and amalgam of groups and has all the hall makrks of a marriage -- and one that takes time to create.

this was a military-eseque strike -- well timed and well funded -- and had india and pakistan been doing what deepak was talking about --deeply cooperating beyond political one ups man ship -- if the u.s. didn't see it self as solely persecuted -- things could and should be different for preventing these things.

this shit ain't new -- just better developed and you're pissed because they asked deepak -- and he had spot on points to make.

your crayons are on the floor at your feet.

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. Since you will not ignore threads where attacks happen in your imagination

welcome to my ignore list...

Tired, truly, of your fucking games

[JI7]

it's actually important that Non Muslims like Chopra are saying these things

there are a lot of Hindus who are probably ready to exploit this for their own political gain .

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. You can bet on that,

nationalists of all stripes will try to exploit this

This almost goes without saying though... sadly

:-(

[H2O Man]

12. I just spoke with

a friend who lived for about twenty years in India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan. He is retired now. He said that what is happening is obviously tragic, and potentially very dangerous. He said that he does not tend to believe anything being reported on US television, that it is something different than the usual type of attacks in that region, that the western intelligence community is going to have difficulty putting the pieces together, and that it will be some time before we know what really happened -- and why.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. Yes, it does have the feeling that this is very different

we have the usual fingers pointed at the usual suspects, but this is very dangerous, and your friend is right.

Also the fact that they took the Chabbad as well is STRANGE for multiple reasons... knowing who or what Chabbad is.

Also the fact that the IDF is sending a team will, at the very least, irritate the Muslim world

I KNOW that somewhere in Langley a young CIA analyst is burning the midnight oil trying to make heads or tails out of it

As to the western press... the story has changed so many times... I don't think that CNN (or their reporters based in Mumbay) know what is going on either

Some of what the police units are doing is quite standard... things don't change that much from place to place... like pulling the EMS\fire component as well, but I can tell you this... having some experience... what the media is telling us is being vetted as well by on-site commanders. After all, the "bad guys" and the "good guys" are watching CNN and other media as well.

[H2O Man]

35. Right.

The events raise two important questions: Who made the decision to carry out this brutal attack? And what was their goal?

The usual MO does not seem to apply. Obviously, the same viciousness is there. But there are pieces of this puzzle that are still missing. And, though this is only speculation on my part, I suspect that when the events are over, that we need not be saying, "Phew! Bad as it was, it could have involved a more dangerous and growing element."

[spindrifter]

15. Much of the news is coming from Indian tv--

CNN has an affiliate that they have been relying on, IBN, but you can also get ndtv. There is a lot of blogging and citizen journalism going on right now. Some is totally out to lunch, but some is very good, with accurate accounts of what they are seeing unfold in front of them.
This will all go into the newest take: India Pakistan and Afghanistan are a related whole, a new "regionalism" perspective.
I have a number of questions about the purpose of some of the tactics these terrorists had and whether in part they had ten different targets in order to make it less obvious what they really were after, while still getting the big prizes--paralyze Mombai and get massive amounts of attention. Right now the financial markets are closed and it is pretty much impossible to schedule a flight or rail trip to Mombai--from anywhere. The financial implications will be long-lasting.

[H2O Man]

36. I agree.

I think that there has been a lot of good information being reported. MSNBC had an interview with a guy who was in a hotel room, which I thought was intense.

The regional perspective seems very important. At first, a few of the reports suggested it was a more limited domestic event. But that has certainly changed.

I'm looking forward to hearing what you think as events unfold.

Thanks,
Pat

[KharmaTrain]

28. And It's Been Deterimend The ISI and Pakistan are involved?

It's bad enough to hear Al Queda bantered about over and over again all based just on a "hunch" or cause some "expert" says so. Typical American corporate media myopia...everything is viewed in how it affects the US....thus since its a terrorist attack it MUST be Al Queda...or that Pakistan is behind it.

Read international reports and you get a totally different picture. There are a lot of very pissed off Moslems in India...they're discriminated against and this could be a very internal backlash against a system that is leaving many behind socially and economically.

No surprise the IDF is involved...had it been Americans in such a situation, wouldn't we want the Navy Seals or another Special Ops force involved? BTW...Israel and India have been allies since both became independent from the British.

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. No, it has not

the Indian media is blaming the usual suspects, which includes ISI and the Pakis

The PM hinted at external forces... which usually means Paki but not this time

After all the ISI offered help yesterday

And I know about the Israeli-Indian alliance, why I called them strategic allies

Just that having IDF teams involved brings this alliance to a whole different level. Sovereign states usually do not allow operators from even allied countries in to help, or at least this obviously...

[jberryhill]

33. What possible motive would the Pakis have anyway?

I don't get the "blame Pakistan" reaction, other than as a manifestation of the "blame Pakistan" reaction. Is the accusation supported by any attempt at a rational motive?

[Riktor]

34. Pakistan is the "Evil Empire"...

... or at least that is what Indians have been told by their government since 1947. There's a lot of animosity between the two nations, and a number of politicians owe their careers to that. If Indians stay afraid of Pakistan, those politicians stay in power.

[FarCenter]

30. A hundred dead in sectarian violence in India is no big deal

My recollection is that 50 to 150 / week was average in about 1996. There was never much notice in the US press, which was preoccupied with the Balkans and the Middle East.

I raised the issue with one of my Indian employees and he said that they were just the lower classes anyway.

This is different only in that the people attacked were Westerners, but in terms of loss of life it is not unusual.

Maoist rebels, violence with the lowest castes, and violence against Christians have also featured recently.

[jberryhill]

32. There is that... you can blow up a train and kill 300, but if no westerners - no story /nt

[jberryhill]

31. Have they provided a list of the prisoners they want sprung?

I would suppose the prisoner list would provide a pretty good indication of who, if anyone, these guys are with.