So is Joe Biden gonna give his son a throne, too?

[FlyingTiger]

Look, I really like Joe, but this is just over the fucking top:

"The rumors are confusing as hell, but here's what I got out of them: If Biden resigns today, the current governor of Delaware, Ruth Ann Minner, would choose his successor. It would all work out spendidly: Resign. Appoint. Inaugurate. The "wash, rinse, repeat" of the political world.

But here's the thing: Senator Biden seems to be sitting around all day, doing all sorts of things that would be classified as "not resigning," thus leading people to speculate that he doesn't want Ruth Ann Minner to choose his successor (she has two first names, neither of which rhyme with "Joe," and that just doesn't cut it in the Biden family)."

http://www.meltingpotproject.com/mpp/eenie-meenie-minie-beau.html">Whole thing here

[DJ13]

1. ......

[FlyingTiger]

2. Ha, I accidentally clicked on the Post button too early.

Refresh it, the link's there now.

[KitchenWitch]

3. Your concern is noted.

[BOSSHOG]

4. He's going to suspend the constitution relative to Delaware

and give his son the Scepter and doubling the tolls throughout the state as well.

[ColbertWatcher]

5. No. He is not governor of Delaware. n/t

[BOSSHOG]

6. I thought all governors were vice presidents?

Or is it the other way around.

[ColbertWatcher]

9. Oh, sorry. My mistake. Carry on then . n/t

[FlyingTiger]

14. You, uh, didn't read the whole thing, did you?

He seems to be trying to skirt around that particular problem.

[ColbertWatcher]

24. Of course I didn't read the whole thing.

Unless Delaware becomes an independent nation and Biden has declared himself Supreme Ruler of it, there's nothing he can do about who replaces him.

[FlyingTiger]

37. Jesus, it's not about him ACTUALLY making the appointment.

That's like saying that Obama can't do anything about legislation in Congress once he's inaugurated, because he technically doesn't have legislative powers (other than the veto stamp at the end of the process).

[ColbertWatcher]

78. That's not a very good analogy.

And, what makes you think that Biden wouldn't have any influence in Governor Minner's decision no matter when he stepped down?

One more thing, I understand the desire to want to hold our government officials' collective feet to the fire, but this seems a little petty.

The last I heard, Biden is holding out so that whoever replaces him will have to step down in 2010, when his son's tour is complete and he able run for his father's seat. Or, so the rumor goes.

There are a couple things wrong with the whole "Biden is giving his Senate seat to his son" meme:

A. Biden cannot choose his successor, Delaware Governor Minner can

B. it's not 2010, it's 2008

C. his son is in Iraq, there is a slight chance he might not make it back to Delaware (he could die in an IED attack, a plane crash, etc.) or he could even get thrown under a bus once he does get back.

D. Beau will still have to get elected by a majority of Delaware voters before he can ascend to his father's "throne"

And, just to be clear: I do not wish any harm to come to him or his family.

[FlyingTiger]

93. Rumor? Apparently that's how it's actually working out.

The replacement isn't running in 2010.

[ColbertWatcher]

94. But, it's not 2010 yet. n/t

[Midlodemocrat]

7. Thank you for your concern. Most helpful.

:thumbsup:

[FlyingTiger]

10. If that's sarcastic, do you honestly not care about stuff like this as long as it results....

...in someone else with a (D) next to their name?

[Midlodemocrat]

30. Nope. I don't. As long as we remain the majority, I'm fine with it.

Because, contrary to what you seem to believe, Democrats are the party that HONESTLY wishes the best for the country. Not the scum sucking Republicans.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FlyingTiger]

42. You must be good at winning independents over.

Very skillful.

[stray cat]

8. The people will decide who they want to replace Biden in two years

in the meantime someone gets appointed to fill the spot.

[SoCalDem]

68. Exactly..and Beau will have competition in '10

He may end up NOT winning the seat...another dem may just decide that the vice president's son is not the best idea..and might win it away from him..

I think Joe's reluctance to resign NOW, is more of a plan to BE IN THE SENATE for those 17 days, so help shepherd the bill that Obama plans to sign on day one..

[Buzz Clik]

11. thanks for sharing that bucket of shit.

[FlyingTiger]

15. Yes, fuck democracy as long as THE PARTY benefits, right?

Voters don't matter. Eff them.

[Buzz Clik]

19. You puke some rightwing bullshit on this board and expect a warm reception?

Ain't happening.

Take that weak shit elsewhere, pal.

[FlyingTiger]

21. Erm... do point out the part of that link that's right-wing.

Because I don't really have any idea what you're talking about. "Criticizing a decision made by a Democrat" does not equal "I heart Ann Coulter."

[Buzz Clik]

29. this part:

Eenie, Meenie, Minie, Beau
November 26, 2008
by Jill Twiss

Everybody wants his kid to be a Senator.

The only difference is that Joe Biden can nudge things along a little better than your average overachieving parent.

Both MSNBC and the New York Times have reported rumors that the reason that Joe Biden hasn't resigned from the Senate yet is that he's hoping to pave the way for his son, Beau Biden (their names rhyme. It's adorable. Cute as buttons, that Biden family.) to take his seat.

The rumors are confusing as hell, but here's what I got out of them: If Biden resigns today, the current governor of Delaware, Ruth Ann Minner, would choose his successor. It would all work out spendidly: Resign. Appoint. Inaugurate. The "wash, rinse, repeat" of the political world.

But here's the thing: Senator Biden seems to be sitting around all day, doing all sorts of things that would be classified as "not resigning," thus leading people to speculate that he doesn't want Ruth Ann Minner to choose his successor (she has two first names, neither of which rhyme with "Joe," and that just doesn't cut it in the Biden family).

Instead, it seems that he wants to wait until the very last minutey-minute so that the new governor of Delaware can take office and then THAT guy can appoint Biden's successor.

You with me so far? This might be a good time to get a drink of water.

Meanwhile, Joe has this kid. Beau. He's the Attorney General of the state of Delaware and, much like the Transformers of the 1980s, magically turns into a National Guard Captain every weekend. Joe wants Beau to be a Senator. That way they could be a political family just like the Kennedys, plus or minus any actuality of getting shot.

"Oh, I've got this figured out," you're probably saying right now. "Joe wants to wait til the new governor takes office because THAT guy will be more likely to appoint his son, Beau, to the position, and then they can all have a giant nepotism party in the Senate!"

But no no, dear smart-but-naive reader, that's way too easy. Clearly you know nothing about politics. If 'twere that simple, I never would have let you get up for a drink of water.

See, Beau Biden is just about to leave for Iraq with the National Guard. And as much as we all adore our troops in Iraq, we don't let them be Senators. So Joe Biden is waiting for the new governor to be inaugurated so that said governor will appoint someone to the open Senate seat who doesn't really WANT to be Senator. Someone who will say, "Being one of those most powerful people in the world just isn't for me. I'd like to go back home and play badminton." So when they hold the special election for Biden's Senate seat in 2010, that guy won't want to run.

And THEN, when Beau comes back from Iraq, he can run for the position.

There.

Perfectly clear, right?

I know nothing of that wonderful site you linked, but I recognize a pile of steaming rightwing shit when I see it. This is nothing but whining and conjecture.

Can't you commune with people of your own mind? Why is it necessary to annoy us?

[FlyingTiger]

39. So, when the phrase "right-wing radio is chock-full of paranoia" is RIGHT NEXT TO THAT...

...on the site, it's a right-wing site?

[mondo joe]

23. How is this undemocratic? His successor will be appointed, either way.

Right?

[FlyingTiger]

27. No no, it's not the appointment part.

That's perfectly normal. It's thhe behind-the-scenes finagling in an attempt to appoint someone who specifically won't want the job in 2010 so Beau can then step in as the de facto heir to the seat.

[Buzz Clik]

31. Bullshit. This is pure smear against Biden.

There is not a single direct quote of first-person account anywhere in that article.

[Midlodemocrat]

53. I think that was the intention. There's nothing verifiable in that article.

It's pure crap.

[FlyingTiger]

56. Honest question: Which parts aren't true?

The bits and pieces of news I've seen about how Biden's seat will be worked out all match that article. Believe me, I'd love to believe that it's NOT true, because, contrary to the belief of most of the posters in this thread, I really do like Joe Biden. I almost voted for him over Barack in the primaries. I just think he shouldn't be trying to stack the deck for Beau.

[Buzz Clik]

75. Which parts are true? It's all crap.

[hootinholler]

80. The bits that state Joe's intentions

See, Joe doesn't operate that way for one. Another thing is the writer is making shit up when she claims to know Biden's mind.

-Hoot

[1corona4u]

97. It's pure speculation and fantasy, of the writer. Nothing more.

The writer is wrong about "Beau Biden is just about to leave for Iraq". Beau already left for Iraq. Last week. He already said he doesn't want to be a senator as well. In fact, there was an article about it, posted on this board. So, there are 2 things that the writer is wrong about.

Also, words like, 'seems', 'rumors', 'speculate', etc., which are all used in this tripe, do not equal fact.

[VeraAgnes]

67. I totally agree with you.

This is right wing smear..........The right wing neocons, they are just so damn jealous!

[mondo joe]

36. Again, how is it not democratic? His successor will be appointed either way - it's

just as democratic no matter which constitutionally prescribed person makes the appointment.

[FlyingTiger]

Specifically trying to find someone who will resign in 2010 so your son can run doesn't rub you...

...the wrong way?

It's not that Biden's doing anything illegal, it's more about the principle of the thing.

[mondo joe]

50. How is it not Democratic, as you declared above?

From the article you linked to:

"But here's the thing: Senator Biden seems to be sitting around all day, doing all sorts of things that would be classified as "not resigning," thus leading people to speculate that he doesn't want Ruth Ann Minner to choose his successor (she has two first names, neither of which rhyme with "Joe," and that just doesn't cut it in the Biden family).

Instead, it seems that he wants to wait until the very last minutey-minute so that the new governor of Delaware can take office and then THAT guy can appoint Biden's successor."

Whether the current or new governor appoints his successor it is no more or less Democratic.

[FlyingTiger]

54. Again, I'm not saying it's illegal, I'm saying trying to specifically arrange for your son to have..

...a Senate seat in two years irks me.

It's all being done via the right processes. Beau would still have to win an election in the end. The means to that end make me a little uncomfortable.

[mondo joe]

55. Specifically: What is, as you said, not Democratic about it?

[FlyingTiger]

58. You don't think stacking the deck for your son to win a Senate seat is a little undemocratic?

I mean, you can go uber-technical on me, and, yes, Beau would still need to receive a majority of votes to win, which makes it fit the dictionary definition of "democratic." But you know that's not what I'm talking about.

[mondo joe]

60. Please be specific: what is undemocratic about this?

The Governor who appoints the successor is Democratically elected.

Is there a reason the current Gov is more Democratically elected than the incoming Gov?

[FlyingTiger]

63. I define "trying to make sure that your Son will win the Senate seat you vacated" as undemocratic.

If you want to argue about the dictionary definition, you can.

[mondo joe]

65. So you don't care that the democratically elected Governor is making the appointment,

as Constitutionally prescribed?

That's not Democratic?

[FlyingTiger]

72. By your definition, all corruption is perfectly democratic, because democratically-elected...

....officials are the ones making the corrupt decisions.

[mondo joe]

73. This is not corruption. The governor will select Biden's successor, as she or he is

supposed to do.

There's nothing undemocratic about it.

[hlthe2b]

22. What kind of beer is best for...

troll season?

:popcorn: I need to stock up, it seems...

[Midlodemocrat]

32. Ask Taverner. He's DU's resident beer expert. Microbrews especially.

[pinto]

12. This is rumor mill run amok.

And there's a little thing called *an election* that the rumor sidesteps.

[hfojvt]

41. unfortunately I hear it's expected to stay in the royal family

Beau Biden will not be appointed because he is currently on active duty, but in the spirit of democracy, he is expected to be elected.

I find that to be kinda sickening. Sure he seems like a decent guy but having successions from father to son does not seem very democratic to me. Sure, it happens all the time with Kennedys, Gores, Brownback, Tafts, and so on, but I gag on it every time. Beau will win an 'election' not so much on his own merits, but because he has the name recognition and connections that he got from his family.

[Cleita]

13. Uhm, he's still Senator Biden until the new Congress is sworn in. n/t

[FlyingTiger]

16. Exactly. Read the article.

He's turning it into a game of chicken to wedge his son into the right position.

[FLAprogressive]

17. Where were you guys when Minner appointed Ted Kaufman to fill out Biden's term??

[FlyingTiger]

20. That hasn't actually happened yet. n/t

[pnwmom]

18. Perhaps you're not aware that his son recently announced he doesn't want the job?

[FlyingTiger]

25. There have been numerous non-denial denials.

Color me skeptical.

[shaniqua6392]

26. His son refused the job since he is busy serving in Iraq.

Bidens replacement has already been chosen. You probably should just do a simple Google News search before you post inflammatory crap. Our VP is a class act and would never resort to such bull. But thanks so much for giving us all a chance to straighten you out.

[FlyingTiger]

28. Right, that was covered.

But thanks for jumping to conclusions and bashing someone who VOTED for Obama and Biden a few weeks ago. Jesus, a little touchy?

[shaniqua6392]

45. Happy to point out that your source of a rumor from a blog was incorrect...

and inflammatory.

[Libertyfirst]

33. Minner has designated Biden's successor.

Governor Minner has announced she will appoint Ted Kaufman, who was Biden's top aide during much of his time in the Senate, to succeed Biden. Kaufman has said he will not seek election to the office in 2010. His experience means he will be able to be effective from day one. He views are quite similar to Biden's, so Delaware will have someone of the same general political philosophy. The appointment means no one gets a leg up on the nomination for 2010 and it will probably be a free-for-all. The expectation that Biden's son, Beau, will seek his father's seat may or may not turn out to be true. Congressman Michael Castle might decide to run for the senate and he has won more state-wide races than anyone in Delaware history. First congressman from Delaware to serve more than five terms. He served one term as Lt. Governor and too very successful terms as Governor. That might cool a number of people's ardor to seek the seat.

[Buzz Clik]

34. First time viewers of this thread? Do yourself a favor -- click the "Hide Thread" feature.

Nothing to see here.

[RoyGBiv]

38. Oh, but I learned so much ...

Most importantly, I learned how a two-week old rumor can be regurgitated on some blog with shiny graphics and still be taken seriously by some, despite the gaping flaws in the original logic and even though we have had other news (as in not rumor) since then that contradicts the original rumor's premise.

Good times. :)

[FlyingTiger]

61. Roy, I'm being 100% honest when I say that I'll smile if you show me that this link is...

...dead wrong. It was something that concerned me. I decided to share it. I haven't happened to see any news that directly contradicted it. If you point me in the right direction for that news, I'll happily take a look.

[Buzz Clik]

77. Try this: "Joe Biden is known to talk to God and is Jesus's direct descendant."

Show me what isn't true in that statement.

Christ, man. How can anyone disprove something that is completely based on unfounded rumor?

[RoyGBiv]

90. Premise ...

Note I said "premise."

The premise of the blog post and the rumor in general is that he's held off resigning out of some conspiratorial desire to hold off Minner from making the appointment, presumably because she'd appoint Mulkasky(sp?), who would want to run again in 2010. And, really, this is the whole problem with the entire thing from the beginning. It's more of an extension of the Democratic primary fight for governor than it is about Biden at all, but I digress.

Anyway, this premise is wrong, as Minner has already announced who she will appoint, and he has no plans to run in 2010. His name is Ted Kaufman.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=akgp7x27hGcM&refer=home

I mean, if Joe wanted to lay the groundwork for his son (who has, btw, stated he's not interested, whether that matters or not) one could hardly pick a better figure to lay the ground work than Biden's long-time aide.

His delay in resigning, then, has no bearing at all on this.

And if you have a problem with Biden trying to clear a little path for his son, well, I don't know what to tell you. Welcome to politics. It does and has always worked this way. Obama's path was cleared as well by some very powerful Chicago politicians.

As has been pointed out, this rumor is two weeks old, and it came amidst the dramatic moment of Obama's resignation. Some blogger saw a path to being cute and took it. And, if you'll note, there's not one thing original in it. It makes the thinly veiled claim of providing analysis (rumors confusing as hell ... near as I can figure out) when actually it is little more than a summary of an MSNBC article with a little rhetorical flourish.

[cosmik debris]

43. No, this is a train wreck in progress..

If you've never seen a train wreck, this is the one to watch!

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[countingbluecars]

44. What a mean little BS article.

I wonder why you posted it here?

[Midlodemocrat]

48. Oooh, pick me! Pick me! I know!

:rofl:

[countingbluecars]

51. I'll bet we are thinking the same thing. n/t

[FlyingTiger]

52. Because I thought this was a place to, you know, talk about Democratic decisions.

Apparently I missed the part where everyone has to agree with every single one of those decisions. Disagree at all, and you get labeled a Republican troll, despite the fact that I popped some champagne when Obama won.

[countingbluecars]

62. So to further the discussion

about Democratic decisions, you post an article written by a comedian for an anti-Democratic Party blog?

[FlyingTiger]

69. What? I've seen articles from freaking NewsMax posted here before.

The point is to break down WHAT the message is, not WHERE it came from. NewsMax articles are blasted, of course, as 99% of them should be. If something comes from anyplace other than DailyKos or Huffington Post, it's not worth talking about?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

46. What are your thoughts on Mrs. Clinton?

[FlyingTiger]

49. Seems like a good choice for Sec of State.

My problem isn't with the act of appointment, it's with setting up the future inheritance of a Senate seat.

[hughee99]

64. Wait until Bill gets appointed to Hillary's seat...

Just kidding, he wouldn't take the pay cut.

[Captain Hilts]

83. In her case they should have a run-off election to fulfill the term. nt

[DefenseLawyer]

57. Joe Biden is a sell-out, DINO, DLC, corporate stooge!

Just like that sell-out, DINO, DLC, stealth Republican Barack Obama! They suck! Long live Green Party Underground!

:sarcasm:

[FlyingTiger]

59. You presume too much.

Given the rest of the replies in this thread, though, I'm not exactly stunned.

[cosmik debris]

66. You are about ten news cycles behind.

When you catch up, you are really going to be embarrassed by this post.

[FlyingTiger]

70. The last news cycle I saw about this said...

...that Minner had "decided" who to appoint, but that Biden was still delaying his resignation and wouldn't set a definite date. Is that incorrect?

[cosmik debris]

71. Minner has decided who to appoint. Period!

That nullifies the rest of your argument.

You can't link unrelated facts just because a right wing blog tells you they are related.

You really should be embarrassed.

[FlyingTiger]

74. Erm, the whole article was about the possibility of Minner not BEING ABLE to make the appt.

But I like how you decide to just slap a label on me and thusly have pre-determined reactions to anything I say.

[cosmik debris]

76. Well, I'm embarrassed for you.

And I suspect many of us here are too.

[jillan]

79. Why are you posting this shit? First of all BEAU IS IN IRAQ - Second-

His successor has ALREADY BEEN APPOINTED

Third - Beau has said if he wants to run for the Senate in 2010 than he will do it.
Right now he is the AG of DE.


My gosh - sometimes this place reminds me of freeperville

[Marrah_G]

81. What a pantload....................

[AspenRose]

82. A throne? Nah. Maybe just a pony.

:eyes:

[PatSeg]

84. Well, that was a real waste of my time!

The subject of Joe's successor has been covered thoroughly the last few days. The article makes absolutely no sense, certainly not based on any actual facts.

[livvy]

85. Doest thou challenge the integrity of Sir Biden?

Thou know not of what thee speak.

Seriously, the appointment has been made, he'll resign when the time is right, and Beau will run if he wants to in '10, or not. There are no shenanigans here. Move along.

[Jennicut]

86. Sir Biden...lol. Seriously, the appt. has already been done and he will resign

before the inauguration. Beau would have to run and win by himself like a big boy.

[Sebass1271]

87. To close thread. I really admire DU members..

I have learned so much with you guys through out the years. Iam not as eloquent as all of you are, but really, it is really an honor to be part of this site. It is an experience to read every single one of your posts when i have the time. I have enjoyed very much this one. You put this person in his/her place with facts, knowledge and humor.

I really really like you guys and admire you all. Maybe one day I will become like you guys, think things quick, be funny and eloquent. Your english skills are impressive and I say this with humility because English is not my first language., but I work hard every day that some day i can express like you all do.

Including the curse words!!. : )) ya'll very creative too!.

Thank you DU!.

[Muttocracy]

88. how about reading Senator Biden's own press release about it:

There's a useful little site called Senate.gov

http://biden.senate.gov/press/press_releases/release/?id=4c0bc3d9-b2cb-423e-a1a8-0e2f2d83db60

STATEMENT FROM U.S. SENATOR JOSEPH R. BIDEN, JR.

November 24, 2008

...snip...

“I have known Ted Kaufman for over 30 years. He is a man of first-rate qualifications, unquestioned integrity and a long-time commitment to public service. As my Chief of Staff for 19 years, he was involved in many of the most important decisions I’ve made in the Senate. Further, he has been personally involved in handling many of the most important issues that we’ve faced in Delaware. From protecting Cape Henlopen, to putting more cops on the street, Ted has played a critical role in these accomplishments.

“Ted has also done the hard day-to-day work of a Senate office – answering constituent concerns, overseeing their casework and making sure the voters of Delaware have a strong advocate for them. So whether it’s debating the biggest issues that come before the Senate, or helping a veteran or a senior citizen get the help they need, Ted has done it. He knows Delaware. And he knows the Senate. He’ll be able to hit the ground running.

“Since the time he worked with me in the Senate, Ted has gone on to teach at Duke University, in the Law school, the Fuqua Business School, the Sanford Institute of Public Policy, and to serve on the Broadcasting Board of Governors. Ted's long service to Delaware has earned him the respect of virtually every community in our state – from business to education to labor to children's advocates to those committed to protecting our environment.

“There is no one who knows more about how the United States Senate works and no one who is more ready to do this job for Delaware than Ted Kaufman. Over the years, he has earned the respect of those who have served, like Senator Bill Bradley of New Jersey and of those who are still there, like Senator Chris Dodd of Connecticut. He will make a great partner with Senator Tom Carper.

“I care deeply about this Senate seat and I care deeply about Delaware. And I can say with absolute confidence that with Ted Kaufman in the Senate, Delaware will be in very good hands.

“It is no secret that I believe my son, Attorney General Beau Biden would make a great United States Senator—just as I believe he has been a great Attorney General. But Beau has made it clear from the moment he entered public life, that any office he sought, he would earn on his own. He proved that two years ago when he turned down an appointment as Attorney General. Instead, he ran on his own and won election. Typical of Beau, he made it clear again his year that he would not accept an appointment to the United States Senate. As he said when he deployed overseas, he is determined to fulfill his military obligations and then return to his duties as Attorney General. If he chooses to run for the Senate in the future, he will have to run and win on his own. He wouldn’t have it any other way.

“In making her decision, the Governor has made it clear that whoever seeks the office in 2010 will do so from a level playing field. The voters will make that decision. For now, my concern is with Beau’s safety, not his political future.

“I have promised the Governor, and instructed my staff, to make sure we work closely with Senator Kaufman over the upcoming weeks to ensure an orderly transition and to make sure that at no point will the work of Delaware go undone.

“To the voters, again let me thank you for the trust you have placed in me. To Governor Minner, thank you for making this difficult decision. And to Senator Kaufman – serve the people well. It will be for you, as it has been for me, the privilege of a lifetime.”

[Muttocracy]

89. Or you could try the Wilmington, DE paper to which Beau wrote a letter and which has reports

http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?Category=election2008

[rucky]

91. If the rumors are confusing as hell

how could anyone put stock in them?

[muriel_volestrangler]

92. How did you distort "when Beau comes back, he can run for the position" to "give him a throne"?

What's wrong with an open primary and then an election - which is what that blog thinks will happen? How can you twist that into "is Joe Biden gonna give his son a throne"?

It's your spin that is "over the fucking top". You think Biden can hypnotise the electors of Delaware? That elections are bad things?

[bigtree]

95. what muriel said

quit lying

[Bluebear]

96. what bigtree said

[Midlodemocrat]

98. what Bluebear said.