Should the Iditarod be discontinued?

[HRC_in_08]

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/news/story?id=2803778

I wonder how much of this type of abuse goes on that no one sees. How many dogs die every year in this event?

[Ninja Jordan]

1. Um, hell no?

Huskies love to work.

[HRC_in_08]

2. kinda like Greyhounds loving to run?

I am somewhat doubtful that the dogs enjoy this race.

[Ninja Jordan]

4. Should we end horse racing too?

[HRC_in_08]

7. I think we should end all horse races that are longer than 1000 miles. eom

[Ninja Jordan]

8. Greyhound races aren't 1000 miles.

[HRC_in_08]

11. Yes, and there is widespread cruelty to the animals.

Apparently like the Iditarod.

[HuskiesHowls]

26. Learn, before you speak!! n/t

[bklyncowgirl]

87. Actually, endurance horses enjoy longer careers than race horses.

I don't know of any thousand mile horse races but there are several that are 100 or more miles.

Endurance horses start competeing later in life and continue late into their teens. Since they are not running at top speed they are less stressed that flat racers or trotters.

Effective vet checks and mandatory expulsion and fines for abuse are necessary to keep any animal sport clean. I'd like to see American racing adopt a drug free rule including the omnipresent bute and lasix. We might start getting a better quality of Thoroughbred if weak animals didn't have their problems masked by drugs.

The Iditarod is not necessarily abusive provided that the vet checks and animal abuse rules are strictly enforced. It seems that they threw this guy out of the race for beating his dogs--that was appropriate, it seems the system worked.

[AZBlue]

109. Absolutely!

'nuff said.

[Virginia Dare]

121. Here in Virginia, the Steeplechase is a big thing..

I've seen some horses horribly injured, and I just won't attend them anymore.

[Mojorabbit]

16. Um you ever have a greyhound live with you?

They LOVE to run. I adopted one who escaped from track people taking her to be euthanized. She was not fast enough. She showed up on my doorstep one day. I tracked the info on her from the tattoo on her ear.We named her Roxanne and her song was a take off on the Police song.
Roxanne, you don't have to run the track no more...
but goll damn, that dog loved to run.

[Ninja Jordan]

17. And Huskies love to pull. Beating animals is the problem, not the dogs.

[HRC_in_08]

18. The dogs don't organize the race. Or lash themselves to sleds to get...

beaten to pull someone for 1000 miles.

[Ninja Jordan]

19. Read up on dog breeding.

Dogs are bred for specific attributes. No one is advocating beating an animal. But there is no doubt that certain breeds are bred to work. And yes, Huskies will literally pull you along if you let them. Before people had cars, these dogs were crucial to getting around in the snow for some people.

[HRC_in_08]

21. So it is your contention that this race is a natural use of the dogs?

just to be clear.

[Ninja Jordan]

22. Is horse racing a natural function of a horse? Both are bred to do certain things.

Both are executing the natural functions of their breeding. Human behavior is the variable.

[ends_dont_justify]

25. Wrong

Running for some egotist isn't a part of what made them survive. They hunt and they outrun dangers. Humans are merely exploiting them.

[Ninja Jordan]

28. Hunt and outrun dangers? You mean a wolf?

I like my domesticated animal very much.

[HuskiesHowls]

35. Do some research, first...

For over 3,000 years, the Chukchi raised them for transportation. They provided transportation for hunts, they kept families warm at night, they were even used to help raise the kids. Where do you think the expression "3 dog night" came from?? It was in use a LONG time before the group ever came along!! The don't only run from danger or to hunt!!

If humans are exploiting these dogs...what are people doing keeping them as pets???

[HRC_in_08]

37. Did they run them 1000 miles in 8 days?

Would you also support 2000 miles? 1000 miles in 4 days? Where is the limit for you?

[Ninja Jordan]

40. Get it through your skull--the limit is the human behavior.

Penalize the mushers who mistreat the animals (beating etc.), not the event itself.

[HRC_in_08]

41. Get it through your skull...the event itself is cruel.

It is cruel to run the animals over that long a distance that quickly. Hence the deaths.

[roguevalley]

115. agree. Punish the human. Go to the Anchorage Daily News and

read the article, which made the front page, to find out what actually happened. Go here:

http://www.adn.com/iditarod/race_2007/features/story/8721510p-8623577c.html

and also here:

http://www.adn.com/iditarod/race_2007/features/story/8712297p-8614496c.html

and here:

http://www.adn.com/iditarod/race_2007/features/story/8719515p-8621560c.html

A marker stave that is thin and tiny is hardly beating. Its easy to bloviate about something when you don't know the way it really is. No one who hates this race is going to change their mind by what anyone says or shows. Anyone who loves this race, understands the dogs BECAUSE WE LIVE HERE AND OFTEN OWN THEM IF WE'RE LUCKY ENOUGH, will not be swayed either. I personally believe you should actually come and see this and be in Nome when they come in. Maybe it will help make your opinion less emotional and more informed. Even if it doesn't change it, it will give it more credibility.

God bless these dogs. They are magnificent and so are the people, all the people, that love them.

[Blue_In_AK]

131. And before anyone rags too hard on Ramy Brooks...

...get to know the guy.

http://www.cabelasiditarod.com/mushers/brooksr.html

[roguevalley]

132. agreed. I like the man a lot. He doesn't deserve such enmity.

[HuskiesHowls]

142. Agreed...

I don't know what I'd do if I'd gone for a week without sleep and a dog got rowdy.

[HuskiesHowls]

43. One problem with the end of the race....

The dogs want to keep going. One year, a dog drowned, because it got away from the handler in Nome--AFTER the end of the race...and kept on going, drowning in the Bering Sea. These dogs can NOT be pushed...DeeDee Jonrowe found that out one year when she was leading....her dogs sat down on the Yukon River and refused to go any further. She had to scratch that year.

The human equivalent of the winning dog team this year? Winning the New York marathon one weekend, and the next weekend winning the London Marathon. How many humans can do that? These dogs are in excellent condition, and they do get vet checks before, during and after the race.

You bring up, in another post, 130 dog deaths. You SHOULD mention, too, that that is over the HISTORY of the race---35 years!! Don't bring it up like its just THIS year. And every dog death is thoroughly investigated.
You also don't mention that this year alone, there were over 1,300 dogs involved. So, over the history of the race, 130 deaths out of probably close to 30,000 dogs being involved is NOT a very high percentage at all!!

[opiate69]

46. Re: "Did they run them 1000 miles in 8 days?"

In a word, yes. Have you ever tried to find wild game on a frozen tundra?

[A HERETIC I AM]

88. the expression "3 dog night" originated in Australia with the Aborigines...

not with the Eskimos.

[Robb]

95. Actually, it's rather unclear

which group can claim the phrase.

Although I'd argue against the sensibility of cuddling up to a dingo under any circumstances. ;)

[HRC_in_08]

27. So the event abuses animals and you are ok with that?

I am not sure what your position is. The actual event is abusive, the beatings and deaths involved are results of that event.

[Ninja Jordan]

31. And that human behavior should change.

This doesn't mean that Huskies don't enjoy a good race.

[HRC_in_08]

32. Again, how do you know they enjoy the race?

The fact that their training will cause them to run until they die? The 130 CONFIRMED deaths during the race, because statistics are not available on deaths during training and after the race when their organs fail from prolonged overuse?

[Ninja Jordan]

34. Because they do it without prompting, much how a collie rounds up children

Do I agree with people overworking the dogs? Obviously not. Anything can be taken to extremes. Rules should be put in place to prevent mistreatment without having to do away with the Kentucky Derby of dogdom.

[HRC_in_08]

36. So you do oppose the race.

Because a 1000 mile race is overworking the dogs. Deaths and abuse are proof of that.

[Ninja Jordan]

38. No

1000 miles isn't too long if the dogs aren't beaten etc.

[HRC_in_08]

42. Even if deaths and permanent injury result from the distance...

and time of the event?

[XOKCowboy]

54. HRC_in_08 what is your history with animals?

Where do you live? What animals do you have? I'm just curious.

[HRC_in_08]

56. 4 dogs, a cat. Live in the midwest. eom

[HuskiesHowls]

44. These dogs do NOT run until they die!!

One thing about Northern breed dogs...They will NOT run until they die!! They know better than to push themselves beyond their own limits. Other dogs WILL run, or pull until they die, because they don't know to stop.

[scarletwoman]

143. Because some of us, unlike you, have actually worked with sled dogs.

You have absolutely NO idea what goes on in raising and training a sled dog team. You have absolutely NO idea how much care is lavished on those dogs.

It's a 365 day a year job. You think someone devoted to raising the best dogs possible isn't going to do everything in their power to make sure their dogs are as healthy and thriving as possible?

I worked as a handler for a sled dog racing team in Alaska. Each and every dog on in that kennel was given the BEST care possible, every day of the year, in order to assure that they were always in the best of health. Any dog that showed ANY sign of distress was taken to the vet -- huge sums of money, time, and effort are gladly expended in order to ensure that these dogs are in peak condition.

These dogs are TREASURED. These dogs are LOVED. And these dogs LOVE having a purpose. They are beings with huge hearts and huge spirits. And the only racers who succeed are those who honor the hearts and spirits of their teams.

If you've never been around sled dogs, you have absolutely NO idea what you're talking about.

sw

[Blue_In_AK]

100. Hello...

Are you saying that people who leave their pets chained up to a post in their back yard never beat their dogs? Puh-leeze. From what I've seen of the Iditarod (and I've been watching it for 31 years), these dogs are the most well-treated, happy animals you could ever want to see, and they LOVE their masters and racing. They are monitored continually along the trail, and if a musher loses his temper, as Ramy did, they are disqualified. The care and treatment of the dogs ALWAYS comes first.

[HRC_in_08]

101. I hear you. How many deaths during the event would be too many in your mind?

How many dogs die after the race? During training?

[Blue_In_AK]

103. I don't know the answer to your question.

However, a quick Google search will show that four or five million dogs and cats are euthanized in shelters in America each year. So if an occasional sled dog dies during training or after a race doing what they love, is that any more egregious than these millions of animals who were somebody's "pet" being euthanized because they couldn't be cared for? Your argument is a red herring.

[HRC_in_08]

104. dogs dying during the race and after and before in training is a red herring? ok. eom

[Blue_In_AK]

111. Railing on about the cruelty of the Iditarod

if you're not going to address the millions of dogs who are mistreated and euthanized each year is a red herring. Perhaps we should just outlaw owning animals altogether, for whatever purpose.

That's all - I'm out. I don't want to get into this even this far because I can't change your mind and you won't change mine. Adios.

[youthere]

79. My sister volunteers with a greyhound rescue league...

she's adopted two of those beauties and helps to find homes for "retired" racers that would otherwise be euthanized...and to say they love to run is an understatement. LOL!
She has a HUGE fenced in yard and the second hers are out the door they are tearing all over the yard for HOURS on end non-stop. I've never seen anything like it...it's like they are on crack or something.

[Mojorabbit]

149. Mine wore a dirt path in the yard

She died of bone cancer and I still miss her so much.
She was a trip.

[AZBlue]

110. I know they don't enjoy it.

They love to be cooped up in small cages and forced to run around on a track, undergoing hours of grueling training and given little if any love. Who wouldn't, right?
:sarcasm:

Welcome to DU!! :hi:

[ends_dont_justify]

23. Cause I'm sure they've told you, right?

During those poker matches?

[gristy]

3. The fact that it is a race with $$$ for the winner is what leads to the abuse

If folks did this for "fun", the dogs would have fun too.

[Ninja Jordan]

5. Agreed. The dogs naturally WANT to do this.

It's the people who are asshats.

[HRC_in_08]

10. In 1973 the record was over 20 days....it is now about 9 days.

I highly doubt the dogs are loving this.

[HuskiesHowls]

57. Its Not for the money...

This year's winner took home a check for $69,000. It probably cost him over $30,000 to run the race. It is estimated that Team Norway spends over $70,000 PER TEAM that they enter...and they aren't guaranteed a first place win. Any team that finishes beyond #31 gets the GRAND SUM of $1,049, after they spend $30,000 or more just to be there. And that doesn't include training expenses BEFORE they get to Alaska!

Its not the same as the NFL, NBA or MLB....people do it for the challenge.

[MrSlayer]

6. It's cruel enough without beating the animals.

Yes, I think it should be discontinued. Horse racing, dog racing and the like should be too.

[BlooInBloo]

9. I never understood why animal-huggers weren't up in arms about this.

[HRC_in_08]

13. PETA is on it.

http://www.peta.org/feat/iditarod/

[BlooInBloo]

15. Ah - there you go.

[HuskiesHowls]

45. A Slightly different view:

http://www.adn.com/outdoors/craig_medred/story/8701451p-8602428c.html

[gravity]

50. Good article

[NV Whino]

12. No

Or, we could end the marathons, triathlons, and the Iron Man races, too. Or the Olympics. Or football. Or baseball. Or.... fill in the blank.

Racing is not cruelty. Beating the dogs is.

[HRC_in_08]

14. So the guys that sit on the sled and beat the dogs are like baseball players?

I don't accept that comparison.

[Name removed]

114. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NV Whino]

134. You might try reading

the entire post.

[zulchzulu]

20. Should salad bars be banned?

Slicing up those poor, innocent heads of lettuce. Yes, heads! Chopping up poor innocent tomatoes. Chopping! Mincing onions...that's right...mincing!

Let the vegetables live their full life without being ripped from their roots or stems and thrown, yes, thrown into bags and boxes. Then they are thrown into trucks and taken far away from where they were born! Then sold like slaves at market without even knowing where their family members are!

Imagine how a banana feels when it is split off from the original bunch it was grown up from. Imagine peas ripped from their pods and crammed into cans! Think about strawberries getting separated and boxed and left to suffocate in plastic wrapping!

:sarcasm:

[Blashyrkh]

58. You know, sarcasm aside...

this is an argument I use against vegans.

[yewberry]

65. Sarcasm aside,

why would anyone try to realistically compare sessile organisms (which have no central nervous system or evolutionary device to avoid pain or death) to animals which can demonstrably feel fear or pain?

That argument is a joke from start to finish, so why pursue it?

[Blashyrkh]

71. Oh, so we discriminate against organisms that don't have central nervous systems now?

Why aren't plants afforded the same protections as animals? Why doesn't EVERY LIVING ORGANISM have the right to live a life as evolution determined.

I mean,

Vegans don't eat animals because they think its cruel to the animal. Vegans do eat plants because they don't think plants have a natural evolutionary device to detect pain or avoid death. So, the only difference between a cow being killed, sliced, packaged and sold and a lettuce being killed, sliced, packaged and sold is the lettuce's inability to feel pain. So, if animals didn't feel pain, vegans would eat them. So, as long as the victim doesn't feel pain, the behaviour is acceptable.

So you discriminate against plants because they can't feel pain.

I don't discriminate because I eat everything.

The argument is only a joke if you're a vegan.

[zulchzulu]

73. Denying an organism the freedom to photosynthesize is a crime!

The proper balance of metabolism and the innate will of vegetables to pursue a productive existance of making sugars, amino acids, proteins, starch, enzymes, energy compounds, cellulose, lipids, and nucleic acids should not be declined due to the destructive forces brought by humans and their new garden tools bought at corporate behemoths like Home Depot.

I rest my case.

[yewberry]

133. You've missed the point of veganism.

The point is to lessen suffering.

Organisms with no CNS cannot suffer in any way that we can understand. Choosing to eat plants is not discrimination against plants, it is choosing to lessen the suffering of beings that can and do suffer pain and fear.

[blondeatlast]

76. Self gelete. nt

[opiate69]

59. Damm you! Let the rabbits wear glasses!

And the angel of the lord came unto me, snatching me up from my place of slumber. And took me on high, and higher still until we moved to the spaces betwixt the air itself. And he brought me into a vast farmlands of our own midwest. And as we descended, cries of impending doom rose from the soil. One thousand, nay a million voices full of fear. And terror possesed me then.

And I begged, "Angel of the Lord, what are these tortured screams?" And the angel said unto me, "These are the cries of the carrots, the cries of the carrots! You see, Reverend Maynard, tomorrow is harvest day and to them it is the holocaust." And I sprang from my slumber drenched in sweat like the tears of one million terrified brothers and roared, "Hear me now, I have seen the light! They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers!" Can I get an amen? Can I get a hallelujah? Thank you Jesus.

[HuskiesHowls]

24. NO!!!!

If you've ever known a musher, you'd know better! These people eat, sleep and live with these dogs for FAR longer than the length of the races. They start training in the fall, and that's all that distance mushers do...work with their dogs. These dogs get treated better than a LOT of people treat their family pets...at least you won't find any dogs from good mushers in animal rescues!!!

These dogs are BORN to run, and that's what they love to do. These dogs are bred for it, they want to do it, and you can tell that they're disappointed if they don't get to run in harness when others are.

Not to mention which....the report from ESPN goes a little far (remember, this is MSM doing the reporting here!) The original reports were that the dogs had gotten tangled while trying to make it through Golovin on ice, while a bunch of kids were trying to pet the dogs. The dogs then started getting rowdy, so he spanked 1 dog. I myself have spanked my dogs when they get rowdy and won't listen to me. And those dogs are so well padded on the bottom that I doubt they felt it at all!!

I also find it very, very interesting that they don't mention how many mushers scratched from the race because they themselves were injured. The main reason that was given for scratching after the injuries?? They didn't feel they could care for their dogs properly!!

You want to end this race?? End ALL ANIMAL RACES, then!!! These dogs are better cared for than greyhounds (You want to know what happens to a lot of greyhounds after their racing careers are over?? Ask a veterinarian where they got their surgery experience). How many horses that don't have winning careers get to spend the end of their lives in comfort and love??

Am I upset?? Damn right I am....Yes, I have Siberian huskies, I know mushers, and I would love to run the Iditarod....its a true test of how man and animal can work together, and it doesn't pollute the atmosphere like NASCAR does, or all the motorcycle races.

You want to read an independent veterinarians examination of all the dogs on Ramy Brook's team?? Here: http://www.ramybrooks.com/images/i2007/vetreport.PDF

[HRC_in_08]

33. Well, I'm glad to see sponsors running away from the event.

Hopefully it will end soon.

[HuskiesHowls]

39. Sorry, the sponsors aren't running away.

[XOKCowboy]

51. Dude you're talking to city folks who've never had to really deal with animals....

Save your breath.

Thanks for the very insightful post though.

[woo me with science]

29. Ask the dog what's worse--being part of a sled team or

being imprisoned in a couple of small rooms for 24 hours a day, never getting any real exercise, and eating the same sawdust crap out of a can or bag every single day of your life.

I suspect a lot of "pets" have it a lot worse than the Iditarod dogs.

[Psephos]

47. You summed it up very well n/t

[frankenforpres]

48. glad someone said it

assholes buy labs for their apartments and then leave them there while they go to work.

[Marrah_G]

49. people tend to be clueless when picking dogs

You cannot just say such and such a breed looks cool. You need to research what breeds fit into your home and lifestyle. Do they need a fenced yard? Are they good with children? Are they a working breed? Do they need to herd, run, pull, dig to be happy? ARe they protective? Are they a pack breed who need a strong owner (pack leader)?

So many dogs end up in shelters because the owners were clueless on what the dog needs to be happy.

[JNelson6563]

74. Very important point!

Some dogs are just at their happiest when running. We have an English Setter who could run all day long, and she often does. Running and jumping, it's like heaven for her. We looked into all kinds of breeds before we got her so we knew what to expect.

We only got her last summer and she was already 4 months old. We knew we'd need an active dog who would like the water in the summertime and snow in the winter. She's a good, middle-size for us, the friendliest of dispositions, loves to point and would be a great hunter (as she's bred to be) but we don't hunt. And run. Run, run, run. We couldn't have her if not for our large fenced yard.

I could easily see a dog that was bred for such really loving to race. Ours was built for speed more than endurance but I'd wager she'd happily give it a go if she could.

I think the race should go on and anyone who abuses the dogs should be banned for life as well as losing their dogs.

Julie

[ends_dont_justify]

30. Human beings have a responsibility to care for, encourage and share with animals

That they take in a form of domestic care or 'pet' ownership. Too many asshole dog owners thinks it's fine to let them freeze their tails off in the freezing snow (I see it all the time here) and too many of them use them like some kind of furry breathing asset. So long as humanity wants to give into the illusion they do animals a favor by keeping them or 'helping' them they need to do the best they possibly can to try to keep their needs kept above all else in regards to the animals.

All forms of animal sport or contest should be banned until human beings are capable of this. Unconditional love is what an animal gives to us, and I cite that animals are better than humans in the ability to love until human beings stop needing animals to 'do things' for them in order to be a part of their lives.

[AZBlue]

112. I wish I could recommend your post!

Beautifully written - and so true. Thank you!

[LeftyMom]

52. Of course.

There's nothing stopping anybody from letting dogs run around in the snow all winter long. There's nothing good that comes from a financial or prestige-based incentive to push those dogs beyond their physical limitations.

Wanna race? Race cars. Race on your own two feet. Swim. Cycle. Do that Olympic dork walking thing, if you must. Just leave beings who can't consent or communicate their hurts effectively out of it.

[HRC_in_08]

53. I am surprised at the attitudes and justifications being made for this event.

Oh well. I kinda gave up.

[LeftyMom]

60. A lot of DUers are kinda stupid on animal issues.

It's got better, believe it or not. :shrug:

[HRC_in_08]

61. The animals love to run, therefore run them to death?

That seems to transcend stupid.

[LeftyMom]

64. Oh, that's not even the top ten of Stupid DU Justifications for Animal Abuse

My personal favorite was the time somebody compared factory farming of chickens to the miracle of the loaves and fishes. Really.

Jesus wept.

[kiahzero]

66. Here's a mirror. (n/t)

[LeftyMom]

68. Wow, your well thought out argument has persuaded me.

:boring:

[HuskiesHowls]

55. You want to know about dog abuse??

Check how the army used the dogs in the Antarctic...they took extra dogs along so that they could be killed to feed the other dogs. Now if THAT isn't abuse, I'd like it explained to me!!

[The Straight Story]

62. No

Take a look at http://www.usnpl.com and read the Alaskan news papers.

Those people care a lot about their dogs, and any death or complaint is investigated.

[HRC_in_08]

63. USA Today article regarding local media coverage of the event.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/saraceno/2004-03-14-saraceno_x.htm

[The Straight Story]

67. So basically, this guy is saying:

If you don't cover the things I would the way I would you are biased and your stories mean nothing.

He seems to only want to hear the negative out of the race.

"More than an estimated 120 dogs have perished during the history of the race"

The first Iditarod race to Nome started March 3, 1973.

34 years ago. So about 4 dogs a year.

There are positive things to note, like http://www.cabelasiditarod.com/mazour_arterburn_dogs.html

But anything positive is seen as a bias perhaps...

[LeftyMom]

69. Four healthy (after all, they get a vet check before the race) dogs a year.

And an uncounted number die during training and after the race.

Why should any dogs die for human entertainment? One is too many.

[HRC_in_08]

70. well, theres postitive aspects to cockfighting I suppose...

namely money, which is a common factor to the Iditarod.

And the numbers are not shown for how many dogs perish after the race, or during training. Or the study that showed 80% of dogs sampled at the finish had lung damage. But that is irrelevant, because the people enjoy it. And the dogs live to please their owners, so they must love it too.

[HuskiesHowls]

72. "80% of dogs sampled at the finish had lung damage"???

I'd like to know why only 59 out of over 1,300 dogs were tested. Were they the dropped dogs? If you want good statistics, you use a large sample, but if you want to use SCARE tactics, you use a small sample of whatever you're testing for.

To me, its obvious you're using emotion to guide you on deciding about something you know nothing about. Here's an interesting link, also:

http://www.petakillsanimals.com/Trial_Day1.cfm

[flvegan]

86. Center for Consumer Freedom link?

Hey, Free Republic thinks Bush is great. One should consider their sources.

[mondo joe]

92. The goal of cock fighting is an injureed bird. Race dogs are cared for and

it is in the interest of their owners for them to be healthy and happy.

[roguevalley]

119. USA Today is a crap newspaper. Read it all the way through. I

doubt any of those asshats has ever been near a dog race. Ever.

[OhioChick]

75. Without a Doubt.

So should horse, greyhound racing, etc.

[ShortnFiery]

77. Amen!

If you have enough time, room and love, the typical greyhound's temperament is that of "a sweetheart" of a companion. :thumbsup:

The biggest fault all new dog owners show is a lack of desire to get their pet basic obiedence training. It doesn't take long and is often offered many places. Spending a little time in the beginning in order to show your beloved pet "the basics" pays off in large dividends later on. ;)

http://www.adopt-a-greyhound.org/

[Robb]

78. I noticed no one on this thread addressed the beating

Our new friend brings it up repeatedly. Of course, no one actually beats their dogs, but still. :eyes:

I actually run dogs recreationally, and know several kennels that have run Iditarod. Best way to make a dog never run again? Hit him. I promise you.

If you've never hitched up sled dogs to a sled, you've never seen it. You know the thing dogs do when you get out the leash to take them for a walk? Multiply that by 100 and you've got the idea of what happens when I even walk near where the harnesses are hanging in the mud room. I owned a husky who could get hiimself into his harness if I left it around, and would sit by the door and give me that "Hello?!?" look. :)

Let me tell you about Denali. She passed away Friday at age 15, so it's a good time.

Every winter, my neighbor and I spend four or five days after the first snowfall in a vacant pasture near home, wearing snowshoes, packing out about six miles of trail, sort of a figure-8 pattern, for the dogs to pull the sled around. The figure-8 was so we could practice taking lefts and rights on command. We'd run on that trail all winter if the weather held.

Two years ago, Denali was getting too tired, too quickly, to keep up with the younger dogs. So we took her off the team when we ran.

She howled whenever the team took off without her, but she was an amazingly well-trained dog, so she stayed with her owner as the team did loops.

So one morning I'm running the dogsled counter-clockwise, and Denali's owner, on snowshoes, is walking with her clockwise. When the team would approach, they'd step off the packed trail and Denali would sit while we went by.

On the third pass, Denali had apparently had enough of the walking.

As I passed by, I heard Denali's owner yelling at me. I turned around, and Denali's running behind the sled. She then ran alongside me, bounding through the deep powder. Much rougher going than the packed trail.

Denali then did a kind of Gunga-Din thing, weaving through the lines off the dogs -- all of this at a darned good clip -- and wound up in front of the team. Where she belonged. Not pulling, of course, not connected physically in any way, but the two dogs who had been leading immediately paced themselves to her lead.

We did two more loops that way. I was about in tears. When we finished, and we all got back home, I plopped down on the deck in the sun and got surrounded by Denali and the rest of the pack. They all laid down and took naps, with Denali next to me about in the middle, with her head still up, like she was satisfied with the way the dogs had run that morning.

Anyhow, that's my favorite memory of Denali.

[youthere]

80. Thanks for sharing that...

it's a great story. I'm so sorry about Denali.

[CabalPowered]

82. Thanks for that

:hi:

[Marrah_G]

83. Your post put tears in my eyes

Sledding breeds have so much heart, so much intelligence. You look in those eyes and you know they are there because they choose to be. My friend had Malamutes, they loved winter and lived outside by choice, even in the snow. It takes a really special owner to take care of one of these breeds. He lost both mother and son almost 2 years ago, we look through the Malmute rescue site every so often but so far no good match.

One case of some asshat hitting his dogs does not make an entire community evil animal abusers. I would say these dogs are far more genuinely loved and cared for then any pampered show-dog.

[Serendipitous]

117. Beautiful story. Thanks for sharing it.

:hug: for Denali

[scarletwoman]

137. Your story has me in tears. I worked as a dog handler in Alaska, for a Yukon Quest racing team.

The OP is absolutely CLUELESS about the relationship between the human racers and their dog teams. Absolutely CLUELESS about how much those dogs LOVE to run. Absolutely CLUELESS about the incredible relationship that develops between the dogs and their humans.

Real cruelty is DENYING a sleddog the opportunity to run. These are incredibly intelligent animals, they absolutely LOVE leading their human on a trail; they know when to go fast, when to back off, where danger lies. And they are PROUD of these skills. The big-hearted spirit of these dogs is something that has to be experienced to appreciate. They are amazing beings, in a class by themselves in the dog world.

I knew quite a few racing teams when I lived in Alaska. I lived in Willow, which was home to many Iditarod racing teams back then. The care and concern lavished on those dogs was so far beyond what any urban "pet" owner would do for THEIR dogs as to be a different universe.

As a handler, it was my job to mix their feed, assist in their training, and make my own personal relationship with each and every dog on the team. (That, and shovel dog shit, of course... :P )

Every dog had a name, and knew its name and responded to it. They KNEW they were special, they KNEW they were loved. And the BEST expression of that love was to harness them to a sled and give them the opportunity to RUN!

It just totally bugs the shit out of me when people make high-handed judgements about something they know absolutely NOTHING about.

sw

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

150. I'm sorry about losing Denali and damn...

that story made me cry.

:hug:

[Holly_Hobby]

81. My vet volunteers for the Iditarod every year

He's gotten awards for his care of these dogs at the checkpoints. His name is Dr. Paul Pifer. Call him and ask about abuse. 419-882-7688. He's back from Alaska today, so he's in the office. Seriously. Ask someone who is there every year and get back to us.

BTW, these dogs are fed raw meat, not the crap in a bag that most owners feed their resident carnivores.

[Xenotime]

84. yes.

[jakefrep]

85. Hell no!

I suspect racing in the Iditarod is preferable to whatever fate the dogs might suffer if dogsledding were banned. I can't imagine a strong enough demand for these animals as pets.

[flvegan]

89. Absolutely.

I firmly believe in discontinuing any "sport" where abusing animals for the sake of entertainment is the norm.

[HRC_in_08]

93. some here do not seem to grasp that pushing these dogs 1000 miles

in 8 days is abusive in itself. As I mentioned earlier, the record time in 1973 was 20 days! The defense that these animals love to pull, so do it until they die is ridiculous.

[flvegan]

94. Well

many breeds of dogs like to swim. Maybe some folks think that they should be pulling the boats in the America's Cup.

[bklyncowgirl]

90. No. Strictly enforced vet checks and mandatory dismissal & fines for abuse should suffice

It seems that in this case the guy was thrown out of the race which was appropriate. There was no mention of any fine for animal abuse and that bothers me.

I have a dog who's essentially a couch potato but my daughter and I do compete with our horse in a variety of events ranging from western pleasure to low level eventing (he's a versitile little guy). While I strongly support humane treatment of animals, and rules to prevent their abuse by overzealous and ruthless humans, I equally strongly resent people who say that humans should not use animals for sport.

Huskies are high energy dogs who have been bred to work. If you want to talk about cruelty, take a dog like this and lock him up in a small apartment all day. Funny, no one seems to call this cruel.

[roguevalley]

120. you keep horses in the city? That is amazing. It sounds like your

horse is a very smart animal. How hard is it keeping a horse in an urban area? Do they have many stables in your area? My brother keeps horses here in Alaska. I would LOVE to have one myself. His like to swipe me against trees, the little minxes. :)

[A HERETIC I AM]

91. Right after Disney movies about Dalmatians are banned.

Sled dogs run because they LOVE it. As the posters above who have experience with these dogs illustrate, the dogs don't do it because they are forced to do it, they do it because they love it.

BTW, re the Dalmatians reference.....

I recall reading how after the live action movie "101 Dalmatians" came out a few years back, demand for Dalmatians soared. Within 18 months, shelters that saw only a small handful of Dalms a year saw the rates of Dalms being left spike upward.

Reason? Dalmatians, like many sporting dogs, are high strung and require an enormous amount of exercise.

Caution: That cute puppy you just bought because it was "Fuzzy" (A reason my ex-girlfriend actually used one time) might just grow up to be more dog than you are prepared to deal with.

[Buns_of_Fire]

96. I gave up on the Iditarod...

after they rejected my application for Team Chihuahua five years running.

[roguevalley]

144. :) I actually saw a little sled and dachshund team one year. It was

*darling*, to say the least. :)

[AngryAmish]

97. no

[951-Riverside]

98. Go for it

I don't get the point of it anyway.

[Blue_In_AK]

99. I'm not going to touch this one with a 10-foot pole

after being royally flamed for just posting PICTURES of some Iditarod dogs. Suffice to say that this is probably the most monitored race in the world, these dogs DO love to run, no matter what any of you may think, and it's an Alaskan tradition that we all love up here. So whether or not you think it should be banned or not is really kind of a moot point. Flame away.

[roguevalley]

145. lovely piccie, blue. It is too bad most people can't see this. Its pretty

wonderful.

[Feron]

102. No.

As long as there are constant vet checks and strigent enforced rules against abuse, then I don't have a problem with it.

In my neighborhood, there is a boy who "walks" his dog by letting the dog pull him on a skateboard. It's obvious that the dog dervives great joy from pulling the boy and the only time I hear the boy raise his voice is when the dog won't stop. LOL

It's always fun to watch because the dog isn't being mistreated.

So it isn't a leap that well-trained dogs might actually enjoy the race.

If a dog doesn't want to do something, it can be like walking a cat in a harness for the first time. In other words, it ain't happening.

[justiceischeap]

105. This Dog Being Dragged Looks Like He's Having Fun: Warning Photos!

See How They Run:



These sled dogs seem to have wonderful life:





They travel in style:



They eat in comfort:



If anyone thinks this is "natural" for a dog, you're wrong. They may be bred for this sort of thing but it doesn't make it any more right than when the Amish hook up a horse to a buggy and run the horse until it can't run anymore. However, people who don't get this sort of thing will probably never get this sort of thing.

[roguevalley]

116. I suppose we should ban dog ownership because some people

abuse their dogs. Are you saying that all dog mushers do their dogs like this? You would be damned wrong. As for the travel, that is the way dogs are transported. You can see sledders driving their teams in pickups with containments like that everywhere. You don't list the endless hours that dog
sledders work with their teams, feed them and play with them. You don't get a team by neglecting
them. You have to have rapport and its a 24/7 job. I could cherry pick fotos to make anything look
like hell.

[roguevalley]

122. by the way, sometimes the mushers sleep, but not always. They

usually average two or three hours of sleep before mandatory layover. They care for their teams before they care for themselves. Over some stretches, because of sleep deprivation, they experience hallucinations. It takes 16,000 calories a day for each dog to do this. The mushers often eat sticks of butter to stay well. You should see the logistics and the veterenarian effort that goes into this race. Oh, right. You would rather pose pictures showing ... what? Animals in their yards, a musher catching a smidgeon of sleep, a bunch of dogs in their crates -something that lasts until they get there and until they get back home. Its easy to pose pictures without commentary and let the uninformed make their own deductions.

[Beelzebud]

106. Yes it should. It's very cruel to the animals that are forced to do it.

If a man wants to run himself 1000 miles across the tundra, I'm cool with that. Leave the dogs alone.

[HRC_in_08]

107. But they love to pull and run...till they die even. eom.

[Beelzebud]

108. I know! Their silence is proof they love it! Otherwise they'd speak out!

:)

[AZBlue]

113. Absolutely!!!

eom

[Error]

118. I am against Pugilism

I think it serves no constructive purpose

[Virginia Dare]

123. It sounds like they did the right thing in booting this person..

and imo he should be charged with multiple counts of animal cruelty.

I don't know enough about the sport in general to express an opinion, but if there is widespread abuse like this, then maybe it should either be banned, or some more strict rules put in place.

[HRC_in_08]

127. An average of 4 or 5 dogs die every year.

These animals were healthy before the race.

[DrunkenMaster]

124. the abuser should be thrown in jail

and the race needs to re-examine its rules to insure these abuses do not continue.

[Beaverhausen]

125. Yes - it should be discontinued

[MonkeyFunk]

126. No

it's a fantastic event, and one jerk shouldn't ruin the whole thing.

The fact is, working dogs always have been, and always will be, at some risk. Herding dogs get trampled, retrievers can fall into a fast-moving river, hunting dogs can encounter a bigger predator, etc. etc.

Clearly, these dogs love what they do, and their mushers love their dogs.

[Gabi Hayes]

128. In a few more years, the entire Iditarod question will be moot, unless...

they start putting wheels on the sleds.

[HRC_in_08]

129. ??. eom.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

135. Snow vs. Global Warming.

www.algore.com

[NV Whino]

140. Can you say...

global warming. It's clear you needed a little help to figure that out.

[DrunkenMaster]

130. great post

and a hilariously terrifying one at that...

[Gabi Hayes]

136. Then again, I could be wrong:

MUSH!

[liberalEd]

138. Sibs are "born to snooze"

on the couch. At least that's what mine thinks.

Oh he loves to play, jump, run, and pull me.

But overall, he enjoys his snoozing on the couch most of all.

Until he wakes up, decides he's starving, and pesters me until I feed him.

[HRC_in_08]

139. You should try running him until he dies. They love that. eom.

[Gabi Hayes]

141. Maybe if they stop Iditarod, they can have the unemployed dogs..

start fighting roosters

[roguevalley]

146. what do you know that makes you say things like this as if they

were true about this dog sled race or any other? Do you live where they mush? Do you know mushers? Have you mushed or is this some personal thing not based on actually knowledge and experience that elicits an emotional and visceral reaction? I think that your comments undermine your arguments. But then, that is what discussion is about. So be it. You really, really should try being around mushers and see what they do and how they live with their dogs. Your comments about them abusing their dogs, which they love more than I have words to express are wrong. (This is in response to HCR, not Gabby.)

[HuskiesHowls]

147. Are you reading ANYTHING that anyone else posts??? n/t

[Jersey Devil]

148. Everyone assumes these dogs are all Siberian Huskies - they're not

I went last year when visiting Anchorage (Eagle River, Alaska to be more specific, one of the stops on the Iditerod). I didn't see the Iditerod itself but I did see two very large sled races that were televised locally and involved a lot of cash prizes. I did not see any dogs mistreated and all the dogs seemed so excited about the prospect of racing that they were literally jumping up and down before the races and had to be restrained to keep them waiting their turn to start.

What surprised me was how few of these dogs were Huskies. There were all kinds of mutts mostly that I could see, many with Siberian blood of course judging by all the blue eyes, but very few Huskies as I know them.