I see the possible bailout of the auto industry as a big opportunity

[cali]

to set high CAFE standards and demand that detroit make fuel effiecient vehicles. Am I wrong on this? I'm against the bailout if no such demands are made or met, but why would it be a bad thing if the car industry were bailed out with new stringent requirements?

[Auggie]

1. It would have to apply to all new vehicles sold in the U.S. to be fair

Toyota, Honda, Mercedes, etc.

But I'm all for it.

[Kolesar]

2. Are you aware that fuel economy standards were raised by an act of Congress this year?

The vote was in the spring. good news

[prairierose]

3. Are you aware that was the first raise in CAFE standards in ...

30 years and does not go into effect until 2020? China has higher CAFE standards than the US. Does anyone see something wrong with this picture?

Might this have something to do with Detroit's problems. They did the same thing in the 70's. It took them years to understand that many people want smaller more fuel efficient cars and then as soon as oil went down, they went back to building gas guzzlers that had higher profit margins.

[Auggie]

4. Reasons for the mess we're in (don't just blame Detroit):

(not in any order)

1: Detroit -- for myopic marketing, shoddy engineering, profit-chasing and lobbying against reform.

2: Automobile buyers -- for promoting gas-guzzleing SUVs, cars and trucks by buying them in record number.

3: The United States Congress -- for voting against higher CAFE standards.

4: Big Oil -- for fighting alternative fuels.

5: Every POTUS since Nixon (on edit: Carter) -- for ignoring the warnings of the first "energy crisis" in 1974.

6: United States voters -- for apathy in not demanding more reform from their elected officials.

Any others?

[dkofos]

6. #5 should say after Carter. He didn't ignore the energy crisis and pushed

solar wind and alternatives.

[Auggie]

7. You are so right. Apologies to President Carter!

[Kolesar]

10. Highway lobby, developers and real estate agents getting us into this "gasoline dependency"

If taxpayer subsidized roads did not force us to live in sprawling urban areas, then we could walk or drive short distances to go to work, school or shopping.

[Auggie]

11. Absolutely. Thanks for adding.

[Kolesar]

5. Not 2020 eom

[datasuspect]

8. "bailout" is rich people-speak for "confiscation of taxpayer funds"

.

[Ichingcarpenter]

9. Obama is gonna appoint an automotive Czar to oversee reform

on the auto industry and direct the bailout. MSNBC just announced
that now on the TV.

[dysfunctional press]

12. they need to find a way to pry the patent rights for NiMH batteries from chevron's evil clutches...

Whether or not Toyota wanted to continue production, it was unlikely to be able to do so, because the EV-95 battery was no longer available. Chevron had inherited control of the worldwide patent rights for the NiMH EV-95 battery when it merged with Texaco, which had purchased them from General Motors. Chevron's unit won a $30,000,000 settlement from Toyota and Panasonic, and the production line for the large NiMH batteries was closed down and dismantled. This case was settled in the ICC International Court of Arbitration, and not publicised due to a gag order placed on all parties involved.<1> Only smaller NiMH batteries, incapable of powering an electric vehicle or plugging in, are currently allowed by Chevron-Texaco.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV

[jpak]

13. Nope - you are absolutely right...45 mpg by 2020

:toast:

[bullwinkle428]

14. Hell yes, and I don't want to hear any shit from them along the lines of

"Waaaaaaaahhhhhh...gas is under $2 a gallon now! Why should we be forced to worry about fuel economy?" :nopity: