The Jonestown suicide is on GEM$NBC now

[malaise]

Can't believe it's 30 years in a few days.

[endless october]

1. Watching now.

[Dennis Donovan]

2. I'm watching... I remember it well...

It's a fascinating and horrifying story. It's also a cautionary tale about organized religion, IMO.

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. I read every book written about Jim Jones

I was fascinated about him for years. This was just so creepy.

[malaise]

7. I read Six Years with God

I've never understood how people are so gullible.

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. What still gets me

is how cults just grew after this. Jonestown seemed to be more of a beginning than an end.

We had a very good friend in the 70s who was in a cult for about 10 years. And we had another good friend whose brother was in a cult. Both completely abandoned their families and friends. It was like they were dead. We lost touch with our friend but the brother of our good friend eventually came home and settled into a reasonably normal life. It was pretty bizarre.

[malaise]

34. Excellent point

It must take a special type of personality to allow others to run their lives.

[LanternWaste]

46. Or a cautionary tale about any...

Or a cautionary tale about any organized gathering of people... :shrug:

[cliffordu]

3. Hints for over the top Freepers???

:shrug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

4. Watching

Seems like it was just yesterday. My oldest was born in October 1978 and I remember he was a teeny baby when this happened.

[fudge stripe cookays]

6. Nice bias, MSNBC...

"socialist" utopia.

Just after this election and all its associated baggage. :eyes:

[malaise]

8. Not really in this instance

That was Jones' dream.

[fudge stripe cookays]

14. The tone of voice...

sounded REALLY dismissive as the person narrated. I guess I'm just paranoid after 8 years.

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. Jones used that term

That's not MSNBC bias.

[ProfessorGAC]

33. Yeah, But He Used the Term "Utopia" Too

So, maybe we shouldn't put too much stock in what Jones said and what he believed. It was obviously NOT a socialist system, and it certainly was no utopia. They don't need punishment chambers in utopia.

Historical accuracy still requires context, and it's obvioius that Jones had no real intention of forming a socialist utopia. That was just a sales pitch.

It seems like bias to me to bring up that phrase without providing the context that it wasn't at all what Jones believed.
The Professor

[curse of greyface]

26. Well no that would be historically accurate. nt

[hlthe2b]

9. I can't believe how little remains on the internet re: Jonestown...

Maybe with the anniversary there is more, but a year ago,hardly anything

[fudge stripe cookays]

13. Read that book "Raven"

by Tim Reiterman.

Fascinating.

[hlthe2b]

16. I will, thanks

[Dennis Donovan]

15. This is probably the best site on the subject:

http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/

[hlthe2b]

18. thanks...I'll check it out...

I've been trying to document that my sigline quote from George Santayana was actually on a sign on the entrance to one of the main buildings as someone has told me was the case... I find that irony (if true) to be really amazing....

[Dennis Donovan]

20. Here's the pic - it was above Jones' chair in the pavillion (WARNING-somewhat graphic):

[hlthe2b]

30. Wow... thanks...

amazing....

[malaise]

31. It should be above every every place where group think is

promoted.

[Sequoia]

44. Very grim.

I saw the news break on a Monday morning but of course it broke earlier.

[NNN0LHI]

48. I noticed the same thing years ago

Got to search like hell to find anything about it.

Don

[juno jones]

12. Some interesting articles on Jonestown

The Black Hole of Guyana
The Untold Story of the Jonestown Massacre

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/JohnJudge/Jonestown.html



Banks involved with Jonestown:

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/JohnJudge/JonestownBanks.html

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. Jim Jones was a Republican

Call me not surprised.

[curse of greyface]

28. WTF are you talking about. Jim Jones was not a Republican

I mean I would love to blame the freepers on this one but jones was a member of

the American Communist Party

Maoists

A student pastor in Sommerset Southside Methodist Church (left because he was barred from integrating African Americans into his congregation)

Director of the Human Rights Commission (Indianapolis)

NAACP

Urban League

And a self declared socialist and atheist.

But alas in all his travels he was never a Republican.

[Judi Lynn]

41. I tried to do a quick search to see if I could find anything to back up your claims.

After a moment, I found the following:

With his new wealth, Jones was able to travel to California and establish the first People's Temple in Ukiah, California, in 1965. Guarded by dogs, electric fences and guard towers, he set up Happy Havens Rest Home.<98> Despite a lack of trained personnel, or proper licensing, Jones drew in many people at the camp. He had elderly, prisoners, people from psychiatric institutions, and 150 foster children, often transferred to care at Happy Havens by court orders.<99> He was contacted there by Christian missionaries from World Vision, an international evangelical order that had done espionage work for the CIA in Southeast Asia.<100> He met "influential" members of the community and was befriended by Walter Heady, the head of the local chapter of the John Birch Society.<101> He used the members of his "church" to organize local voting drives for Richard Nixon's election, and worked closely with the republican party.<102> He was even appointed chairman of the county grand jury.<103>

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/JohnJudge/Jonestown.html

Maybe you could take the time and post a few of your sources to support your claims that James Jones was

"a member of

the American Communist Party

Maoists

A student pastor in Sommerset Southside Methodist Church (left because he was barred from integrating African Americans into his congregation)

Director of the Human Rights Commission (Indianapolis)

NAACP

Urban League

And a self declared socialist and atheist.

But alas in all his travels he was never a Republican."

Thank you.

[curse of greyface]

42. You know it's a curious link you provided but seriously

http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/AboutJonestown/PrimarySources/newWestart.htm

"Jim Jones counts among his friends several of California’s well-known public officials. San Francisco mayor George Moscone has made several visits to Jones’s San Francisco temple, on Geary Street, as have the city’s district attorney Joe Freitas and sheriff Richard Hongisto. And Governor Jerry Brown has visited at least once. Also, Los Angeles mayor Tom Bradley has been a guest at Jones’s Los Angeles temple. Lieutenant Governor Mervyn Dymally went so far as to visit Jones’s 27,000-acre agricultural station in Guyana, South America, and he pronounced himself impressed. What’s more, when Walter Mondale came campaigning for the vice-presidency in San Francisco last fall, Jim Jones was one of the few people invited aboard his chartered jet for a private visit. Last December Jones was appointed to head the city’s Housing Authority Commission.

The source of Jones’s political clout is not very difficult to divine. As one politically astute executive puts it: “He controls votes.” And voters. During San Francisco’s run-off election for mayor in December of 1975, some 150 temple members walked precincts to get out the vote for George Moscone, who won by a slim 4,000 votes. “They’re well-dressed, polite and they’re all registered to vote,” said one Moscone campaign official.

Can you win office in San Francisco without Jones? “In a tight race like the ones that George or Freitas or Hongisto had, forget it without Jones,” said State Assemblyman Willie Brown, who describes himself as an admirer of Jones’s."


Not a Republican.... sorry. Can't win them all but no need to make up shit from the whole cloth

Not all psychopaths are Republicans Democrats have them too.

[Dennis Donovan]

47. I have to agree with you - the ratical.org link is full of paranoid shit...

...even MORE paranoid than Jones himself.

All accounts I've read say that Jones was a socialist/Marxist - a very sick and evil one, granted, but I've never read of his affiliations with any Republicans or the Republican Party.

[curse of greyface]

49. Thank You Did you know If it is on the interwebs it must be true.

For Example Harper Lee wrote many books After To Kill a Mockingbird?

It's true find out here.... http://weblog.xanga.com/Curse_of_Greyface/681777185/little-known-facts-harper-lee-wrote-many-books-after-to-kill-a-mockingird.html

It has to be true it's on the web. :evilgrin:

[Judi Lynn]

51. All the more reason it would help if you provided a link to a trustworthy source for your claim:

jones was a member of

the American Communist Party

Maoists

A student pastor in Sommerset Southside Methodist Church (left because he was barred from integrating African Americans into his congregation)

Director of the Human Rights Commission (Indianapolis)

NAACP

Urban League

And a self declared socialist and atheist.

Looking forward to reading this vital material when you show us where you learned it.

[curse of greyface]

53. Well start with Wikepedia or read Raven: The Untold Story of the Rev. Jim Jones and His People

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raven_(book)

Jones was a fixture in San Francisco democratic politics during the mid-seventies.

This isn't a secret you know.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

52. Well we all know Jones preached racial equality.

So he couldn't be a republican.

[ellie]

21. Thanks for that link

That is pretty interesting and chilling. Especially the information about the cults still in existence.

[devilgrrl]

17. I remember it as if it were yesterday...

:scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared:

[Dennis Donovan]

22. I remember the news broke right before Saturday Night Live that night...

:(

[norepubsin08]

24. I remember that night well...it was the night

my wife and I got engaged...we got married 19 months later (June 1980 and are still together)

[NotThisTime]

29. I was 9 when it happened and I remember it vividly. I learned more in the years to come but I

certainly will never forget it

[fudge stripe cookays]

38. Right before Thanksgiving.

It certainly made for interesting dinnertime viewing that year.

[Feron]

23. Thanks for the reminder.

I caught it just in time.

Very sad show. I feel for all of those affected. And I especially hope that the little girl that saw her dead mother got help.

Jonestown is a reminder of how dangerous fanaticism is.

[backscatter712]

25. MSNBC is back to its prison shows and fear-mongering.

Lockup is back on, along with this show on Jim Jones drinking the Kool-Aid, and before long, they'll be bringing about To Catch A Predator, America's Scariest Police Chases and endless shows on Charles Manson, along with a few shows on transsexuals - gotta fear them too. :eyes:

It's all about the fear - they've been throwing this shit at us to try to break up the time we get to watch Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow, and to try to ratchet up the fear level. The GOP feeds on fear, as do their corporate masters. The more we fear, the more support they get for their fascist agenda.

[geomon666]

27. Have you ever heard the tapes they made that day?

It will chill you to the bone. Especially when you start hearing the children crying because the poison is making their muscles spasm and cramp up, causing horrendous pain.

[malaise]

32. You do know that the phrase

'drinking the Kool-Aid' is a legacy of Jonestown.

[geomon666]

43. Uh.....yeah. n/t

[csziggy]

54. That explains it better than The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test

Which is what came to my mind. I kept wondering how "kool-aid" got such a negative connotation.

[Hubert Flottz]

35. Kool-Aide Kills

It's still killing today in Iraq

[malaise]

39. Yes indeed

:hi:

[mwb970]

36. Was last night's program Part One or was that the whole thing?

I taped it on timer and haven't watched yet. Is there another part coming?

[fudge stripe cookays]

37. Whole thing.

Lots of relatives and former members. It's the first time I'd seen Grace Stoen interviewed.

[mwb970]

40. Thanks - I'm looking forward to watching it tonight.

My 15-year-old niece is fascinated by cults and asked me to tape it. She's pretty skeptical about organized religions in general (as am I).

[Dennis Donovan]

45. IMO, all religions are cults - some have more members than others...

[Lifetimedem]

50. i watched it yesterday

he was an evil and sick man