Wanna bail out the big three automakers

[dsc]

simple. Single payer health insurance. The big three auto makers would be competitave but for the cost of health care for current and retired workers. The entire difference between the cost of a foreign car and an American one is the added health care costs. Not union wages, not union work rules, but health care. Go ahead and bail them out, and bail us out at the very same time.

[Greyhound]

1. Seems like the best move to me. K&R

:kick:

[realisticphish]

2. interesting point

though i still think that foreign built vehicles are just more reliable at this point :shrug:

The big three put way too much money into SUV and truck R&D, and now, with the rise of small cars, they're flailing around

[dsc]

3. One reason they put money into those big cars is that the profit margin

on them permitted them to eat those health costs. We have already agreed to fund conversion to small cars in a previous bailout.

[realisticphish]

4. true

hopefully it sticks... i'd love to buy american again

[ChowChow]

5. It won't stop them from making a shitty product. eom

[sailor65]

6. Not entirely true.....

Health care is arguably the largest slice, but union wages are and for a long time have been, too high for the nature and quality of the work given, especially when compared to those of the competition.

Also, many attempts at increases in quality of output are opposed most aggressively by the unions themselves, even in cases where quality improvements are essential to protection of jobs. There is a reason why so much sub-assembly and tier-one work is being moved to Mexico.

Before the flamethrowers start, this is based on 15+ years in the automotive business, in the trenches with these people, so if you want to flame, you'd better come at me with more than a union or political slogan.

[bertman]

7. I'll put my Chevy Tahoe up against any vehicle I have ever owned for quality and

performance. Yes, it's an SUV, but I need a tow vehicle and it works nicely for that. I've had a Dodge Ram pickup, Chevy van, Dodge van, Ford Pinto, VW beetle, VW minivan, Porsche 924, Porsche 911 (back when I was young and sporty), MGA, and an Austin-Healy sprite, and I love my Tahoe. Except when gas is at $4.25/gallon.

American could make even better cars if the auto makers wanted to. For years I wouldn't drive a U.S. sports car because they weren't nearly as comfortable as the European models, and it was all about design--not fit or finish.

As far as the bailout, if your option is actually a realistic scenario, then I'm all for it. We keep the American jobs, the American companies, and get health care for all. Plus, we should throw in the clause about producing fuel-efficient vehicles and alternative energy vehicles.

[sknabt]

8. Isn't there more to it?

Actually, wage differentials are important even for foreign cars made here like Toyotas. The Big 3 have an older workforce making huge salaries. That's one reason they've negotiated a 2-tier system so new hires get less. It's also why they're offering early retirement buy-outs to get the older, high-cost workers off the payroll.

Plus, GM is trying to shift pension costs onto the UAW. Sure, a lot of that is retiree health care but not all of it.