Prop 8: Don't be taken in by the divide-and-conquer group think tactics

[ConsAreLiars]

You know the primary meaning of Group Think - the brain dead zombyism that just repeats what "everyone" knows and defends/argues on the belief that "everyone knows that ...," and never even wants any fact checking. Dittoheads, Freeptards, hate-mongers, talking point TV monkeys.

But underlying that mindset and the ease with which some are so easily led any which way is a specific propaganda technique. The basic method involves labeling groups as actors and entities, rather than acknowledging and teaching that these concepts are simply demographic and social abstractions and generalizations. This is an essential feature of the divide-and-conquer strategy of the ruling elites and their agents, and a deadly trap for all would serve the common good and bring about a social system that actually serves the cause of promoting life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Unfortunately, led by the corporate media, too much of the discussion here and elsewhere has accepted that divide-and-conquer framework, and the discussions within such a framework, despite the good efforts of many to provide counterpoints, often simply reinforce that destructive labeling and stereotyping and promote antagonisms among the people. People are not defined by the group labels others assigns to them.

The truth, of course, is that this hate campaign was funded and organized by some very rich and powerful people who are trying, with varying emphases, to build a theocratic corporatist political movement. It differed from the same broad alliances that have been building a fascist movement in the US for 80 years only in the strong role of the Romney Mormons this time, but this movement has a very long history.

Inevitably every propaganda campaign is more successful among some demographic categories within society than others, but such outcomes only identify the areas where the justice movement failed. It does NOT mean that those groups are responsible for the outcome. That kind of "blaming the victim" of the propaganda is worse than useless. Those responsible are the organizers and funders of the campaign. And they are not an abstraction or a sociological label. They are a relatively small number of very wealthy individuals and their hirelings with a very definite set of goals, and this was simply one battle in their larger strategy and and attempt to build and extend their power.

[OnwardandForward]

1. CORRECT

this is not the time to pit social bloc versus social bloc regardless of what the statistics show. sure hispanics and blacks voted overwhelmingly for prop 8 but they didn't pay for it. the real enemy is the entity who funded it. don't mistake the trees for the forest.

[kevinbgoode]

2. And so we will once again sit back and watch it happen again

to the gay community, seeing the occasional thread about another upcoming amendment and most of DU ignoring it. . .and when the 31st and 32nd and 33rd state revokes the constitutional rights of these same people, we'll pat them on the head and tell them that "someday it will change". . .and then go back to snoozing along while the 34th and the 35th happen.

We are well aware of the growth of the dominionist movement and the many forms it is taking - but try to find many people here who won't immediately slam a gay person for DARING to mention any of those organizations. After all, we can't pick on the poor, persecuted Mormons, even though no one voted their rights out of the California constitution.

It is so easy to ask the gay community to vote for a presidential candidate who publicly stated he was against same-sex marriage -and his words were used against us during this proposition. And it is so easy to tell the gay community that -- heck - you guys just have to make some sacrifices to get us all back into power - knowing we'll be once again thrown under the bus with some bogus "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy "compromise" about my God-given rights. We do it EVERY ELECTION CYCLE.

I can understand why some of you might not think my constitutional rights are important. I don't even mind fighting for them on my own - as my community has done for the most part over the last 40 years. But I do mind being expected to compromise my existence and my rights as an American citizen (just wait awhile for them). As Democrats, we don't even ask most of our candidates about their positions on our issues - and the ones who don't believe in our constitutional rights are explained away to us as "you just have to wait". Well, what in the hell am I supposed to be waiting for? The dominionists to change their minds?

It is hard enough to find many people on here who even can grasp the overall goals of the dominionist movement in this country. They don't even understand that this marriage struggle wasn't just about the gays, but about the individual right to marry for ANYONE. Even after they watched this cabal of religious crazies attempt to attack our courts, demanding the State arbitrarily dissolve (in an unprecedented manner) the Schiavo marriage, these people don't get the connection. They are just content sitting by and watching my rights stripped from me while nodding their heads and saying..."just wait."

I made my sacrifice. I voted for a President who publicly stated he did not believe in my right to MARRY. Think about that. How many of you would be willing to do the same if that President publicly stated he didn't believe in YOUR right to marry?

[justiceischeap]

4. What a lot of these, "just wait, it'll happen" folks don't realize is

that when they're done with us, they'll find a new target. Once "the gay" has been trampled, then those who don't attend church may be next, or people who have tattoos or blond hair, or brown eyes.

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I was not a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
-Martin Niemoeller

[ConsAreLiars]

5. When we let them define this as "only" about the rights of some minority

instead of as a significant front in a wider struggle for human liberty, we give the enemies of humanity and justice an advantage. This is not about you or me, it is about us and them, and so long as "they" remain hidden, and the contradictions are played out as among us, rather than between us and the theocrats and their corporatist handlers, we are at a great disadvantage. It's hard to fight wisely or effectively when the real enemy remains invisible.

[AntiFascist]

7. By all means, we should not wait...

we should act NOW by marching, protesting and demonstrating to the courts that we will not tolerate religious persecution being added to our state constitution when the foundations of our government were created to eliminate such persecution. The Constitution is for everyone, not just a few select churches.

I think what the OP is mainly pointing out is that we need to select our battles carefully. We should not waste our energy attacking the black community or even the Mormon community when, really, they have just been brainwashed like any other cult.

The battle is now in the CA State Supreme Court and the court must now consider some very good arguments for why this initiative should not be allowed to pass. I fully support the demonstrations and I wish millions could partcipate, but this should not be out of anger towards the cultish churches, it should instead be a demonstration to the courts and to the public that we will not tolerate this oppression as long as there is still freedom of speech.

[QC]

3. Seems to me that the bigots who voted for 8 are the ones taken in by

right wing divide and conquer tactics.

[Iggo]

6. Yup.

For a couple of days I was expressing my disappointment with non-whites (including not just black folks, but the raza, of which I am a member) who are against civil rights for everyone. Fact is, I've been disappointed about that for a looooong time and will be for a looooong time to come. That's nothing new and I'm sorry that it comes out like I was blaming brown people for the success of Prop 8...and it does...because I was. But I got it out of my system and I'm all better now. The Yes On 8 crowd had a better battle plan than we did and they plain kicked our ass. I accept that...now...finally.

[ConsAreLiars]

8. When we are hurt there are always those behind the curtain

who are quick to direct our anger at our brothers and sisters. We, that's almost any "we" in any struggle for justice, all too often never look behind that curtain.