So sue me-- I agree with Huckabee...

[TreasonousBastard]

on his new Fox show where he is arguing with Bill Maher over the effect of religion on society.

(Don't agree with him on much else, but he does have a neat lineup of guests and so far he's not the pit bull with lefties.)

[Trajan]

1. I would agree with Maher ....

Go figure ....

[Mojorabbit]

2. You are not the first person

who has liked his show. I have read a few posts here saying the same. I will have to check it out one of these days.

[emilyg]

10. I actually look forward to his show.

[Dogmudgeon]

4. I *like* Huckabee

I don't agree with him on almost anything, but unlike most of his Consrevative/Christian bretheren, he's a decent guy. And no major history of insult politicking, pedophilia, race-baiting, extremism, or theological silliness, either.

So I won't be voting for him. But I am prepared to hear him out.

--p!

[LiberalHeart]

8. He was the one GOP candidate who worried me because he's likeable.

[Dogmudgeon]

13. I have to say, I had my worries about that, too

But I'm sure he would have turned to attack campaigning. It's the only way Republicans know how to campaign now.

McCain wasn't that bad of a guy, either, but it's all been mud since he and Obama started mixing it up on the campaign trail. Obama would invoke the Future, Hope, and Unity, and McCain would call him a Terrorist-Lover, a Socialist, and a Redistributionist.

--p!

[codjh9]

60. I thought he was ok/likeable/gregarious at first too, but his views canceled all of that out for me.

[Toasterlad]

7. So You Agree That the Earth Is Only 6,000 Years Old?

And that the dinosaurs were killed off by man? And that lobster and gays are an abomination?

[DRoseDARs]

12. As much as you agree that strawmen make better arguments than actual arguments.

How about letting TreasonousBastard explain first what one point he agrees with of Huckabee's before you start painting him into agreement on all points with Huckabee? :eyes:

[TreasonousBastard]

14. Did he say that? I was switching back and forth a lot...

and might have missed it. Or, maybe he didn't say it and you're making it up just to insert some obnoxious snark in my thread.

At any rate, silly conjectures about Moses riding dinosaurs into the Promised Land are not the point. Huckabee was talking about certain positive effects of religion and the requirement of doubt as a cornerstone of true faith. Maher is not properly equipped to discuss religion on that level and is far better at just pointing out the obvious.

[BlooInBloo]

3. (facepalm)

I thought it would get better once you specified what was said.

It didn't.

[TreasonousBastard]

5. Well, I just said I agreed with what he was saying, not...

that there was any great enlightenment there.

The thing is that it's not often you see on TV such statements of personal faith. Usually there's an agenda floating around somewhere.

[johnaries]

6. well, I'm not equipped to deal with delusional rationalizations, either.

I loved Religulous.

[TreasonousBastard]

9. Curious how some people are free to toss about...

terms like "delusional rationalzations" but object to being characterized as intellectually bankrupt when they toss those terms about without understanding, or even caring about, the underlying belief system. It is a lazy way of arguing a point that needs not even be argued.

I suppose I should be insulted after having been accused of being delusional, but I can't really take such a statement seriously.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

70. Believing in

an invisible, imaginary friend is the definition of delusional thinking.

[LanternWaste]

54. Seems that most people believe

Seems that most people believe that every one else who doesn't adhere to one's own fundamental tenets (whether religious, philosophical, political, etc.) appear to believe those "other people" simply engage in "delusional rationalizations".

Reducing others for the purpose of self-validation is, I imagine, as old as mankind itself...

[garrick]

25. What is this "requirement of doubt" stuff

Faith with regard to religion is an interesting concept. It requires a complete dismissal of logic and reason.
I simply cannot live my life this way. I'm agnostic, I don't deny the existence of a creator, but it's damn
peculiar that's he's so human-like. I think WE created HIM in OUR image.

Interestingly, an extraordinary number of americans profess to be christians, yet their actions are anything but
christian-like on a day-to-day basis...so what are we to conclude from this?

Finally, people of faith only see the good in their religion, they don't see the witches being burned, they don't
see the innocents being tortured for denying the one true god, they don't see the beheaded bodies, or the fear in
a child concerned about suffering in a lake of fire for all eternity.

I agree with Christopher Hitchins..."religion poisons everything".

[TreasonousBastard]

28. You are confusing "faith" with "belief," a common enough...

mistake. You also confuse the anthropomorphic God so often depicted with the gods that people actually believe in. And, once again, a nonbeliever is all full of just how a Christian should think and act.

And Hitchens... Really now, a pop-atheist hero to the non-believing masses. Sartre would have had him for breakfast as a low-rent poseur.

Speaking of Sartre, I would be soundly thrashed myself if this ever got out, but I see his atheism as an expression of faith since his atheism was a postulate and not a conclusion. He was led to his atheism, but never could fully synthesize why there is no God. That's a pretty good example of faith.

Aristotle, on the other hand, did synthesize why there must be gods. And, not all that long after Aristotle, Maimonedes worked out how religion can coexist with science, as Templeton recipients are to this day.

(So much for dismissal of logic and reason.)

[Tuesday Afternoon]

32. excellent post.

:thumbsup:

[immoderate]

62. Isn't an anthropomorphic god what Huckabee believes in?

Though he hedges sometimes, he is a creationist, a fundamentalist.

Agreed that Sartre could not fully synthesize why there is no god. But that can be done for any particular god. It simply contradicts things that we know.

Agree that Huck exhibits decency. He was my pick for them early in the race. I think the Republican "elders" (H2O Man's term) are more secular, at least as far as politics goes.

--IMM

[Toasterlad]

72. "a nonbeliever is all full of just how a Christian should think and act."

There are instructions for how you people are supposed to think and act. They're available in any bookstore, all bound together in one volume. Anyone who's read them is qualified to tell you how you're supposed to think and act.

I'm not sure Aristotle would be cool with you taking his argument for why there was a guy in charge of rain, and another in charge of fire, and another in charge of the sun, and turning it into a justification for christian mythology.

[Toasterlad]

71. Huckabee Believes the Bible LITERALLY. That Is the Point.

Knowing that Huckabee actually BELIEVES that a talking snake in a tree convinced some woman to eat an apple and that's why there are bad things in the world, it's very difficult to imagine that anything he has to say about the subject of religion is logical. Making your agreement with him suspect, to say the least.

[spoony]

23. I must have missed that part of the OP

[Name removed]

11. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[spin]

15. I do have a better opinion of him...

after watching his show.

He would have made a better Republican candidate than McCain, but he still lacks Obama's charisma.

[obiwan]

16. Well, I kinda like Huckabee, too, in the same way you like all your friends when you're 14.

The other things are, I play bass too, way better than Mike. And I am also a bit fat. And old. But my head isn't fucked up with Republican politics, and I never go anywhere near a church.

An historical aside: He plays a Tobias bass. It's made in Conway, Arkansas, in an old grand piano factory, and no doubt they gave it to them. American Tobias basses (they also make a line in Korea, like most mfrs. of guitars) were state of the art 15 years ago. The are made of swamp ash and maple, mostly, and are greatly overpriced. Mike's Tobias lists for about $3500 but my swamp ash Warwick lists for about $1900 and runs circles around the Tobias. I also have a couple of cheap Indonesian Ibanezes that sell for a LOT less than $1000 that play and sound better. Tobiases are well made, but they haven't kept up, and sell instruments based more on their cachet than their sound.

This aside isn't sour grapes because I have owned a couple of U.S. made Tobias, and they are no longer in my inventory. Different strokes, I guess, but there's a lot better bass out there for a lot less money.

I know my way around. I have been playing about 40 years and have probably owned a hundred basses in my lifetime. (Not all at once, of course.)

[Mind_your_head]

17. Thanks for sharing that bit,,,,,,

....we all have so much important information to share. It's all 'good' :hug:

[obiwan]

18. Then tell me how to weigh 160 pounds so you trust me more. Want to discuss something more meaty,

... like philosophy or the origins of the universe?


Idea: let's not judge lest we be judged too, and harshly.

Your hug was greatly appreciated. Big hug back, and peace! Yep, it's all good.

[Mind_your_head]

20. Okay.....so, what' are the most important things in you life?

I'm talkin' "stranger-to-stranger" here. Please be specific. ;-)

[Loudmxr]

19. Whats to worry about Huckabee??

1. He is taking a page out of the Ronald Reagan playbook by doing a "nice" show like RRs Radio commentaries of years ago. this keeps him in front of the public in a non-confrontational way.

2. He is placing himself into leadership position for the new Republican party. The one that didn't fail. The friend of main street not wall street. That coupled with his faith based "I wanna change the constitution" makes him a power.

Watch out for Huckabee!! :smoke:

[Mind_your_head]

21. Huckabee "has to go" -- he doesn't dserve a 'place'

Just like Oliver North didn't deserve a 'place'. Huckabee is not in the same realm of North' disbasement, but he REALLY should not be seeking higher attention at this point!

(If you all turned off your teevee RIGHT NOW ......for the next month, how would that change your perception of the world? I dare you to try it - this experiment. Love or hate the result, I guarantee that you will be "enlightened".

[Joe the Liberal]

24. Huckabee is alright.....

Hes got the one show on Faux noise that is watchable. Usually I wouldn't tune in to ANYTHING from the propaganda machine that is Faux noise but Huckabee's show is'nt so confrontational, its not THAT bad.

[Duppers]

22. Sue you? I would if I could.

You need more a historical perspective of religion.

[TreasonousBastard]

29. That requires a certain amount of explanation...

since you have no idea what my knowledge of history, and religion, is.

Nor I yours.

[Eryemil]

26. Liberal Christians,,,

...are just enablers for the extremists. They are the overwhelming majority that do not push back when the idiots want to teach creationism in school and make queers into second class citizens. Half of this country believes that some human beings do not deserve equality.

While liberal Christians are always so keen to remind us that these 'extremists' are a very small minority their ideology seems to influence a much bigger percentage of the population.

[TreasonousBastard]

31. More presumptions-- you are perhaps assuming that...

a few Quaker meetings and Methodist churches in Vermont can influence the beliefs of entire counties in Tennessee? It doesn't work that way, and none of us see it as our mission to reform the fundagelicals out there. We have enough trouble dealing with our own problems.

Religion tends to refelect social patterns more than social patterns are influenced by religion, and blaming the troglodyte problem on us is simply trying to bail out of your own responsibility for letting your community devolve. And if it isn't your community devolving, it's no more your business than it is ours.

[Eryemil]

33. Human rights and quality education...

...are everyone's business. You might think you're isolated from the rest of the country in your liberal bubble but the fact that Bush got a second term should be evidence enough that it this is not so.

We both very well that more than just Quakers seem to balk at being compared to those evil Christian fundamentalists but when it comes down to it more than half of the country spouts the same nonsense as the crazy fuckers they try so hard to distance themselves from.

Not only that, but the same Christians that claim to be better than the crazies will make it next to impossible for the rest of us to keep them in check. They will claim that their delusions are somehow just as valid as our attempts to keep them in check.

Do you really think that people like Huckabee would so eagerly respect our point of view in our position? He would ban abortion and bring back the old sodomy laws if he could and I am supposed cheer him on because he opposed the big bad atheist?

[TreasonousBastard]

37. I'm not sure I'm seeing a solution here, just anger...

that much of the world does not see human rights and such your way.

I am, of course, also appalled at the same attitudes but I've been through enough battles to know just how little I can actually change. I am also just a little afraid of a world that agreed with me all the time.

But, be all that as it may, constant struggles to keep such things as creationism out of the classrooms, abortion rights, and other controversial stuff (prison reform and Pentagon reductions are fun ones, too) seem to be the order of the day. Since about half the country doesn't agree, it's not just a matter of church vs church but getting past the churches and trying to change some fundamental attitudes.

And, ummm... just because I'm right doesn't mean I don't have to give the same respect to others that I expect from them. This isn't a war where we have to conquer them, but a negotiation where we have to find a common ground.

[QC]

46. Not just anger.

Self-righteous twaddle, too.

[Toasterlad]

74. Oh, So When People Say That I Can't Be Married Because It's Against the Bible,

it's really SOCIETY'S fault, not the kooky religious belief?

Do you KNOW what a poor argument for religion you're making in this thread?

[hippywife]

40. I beg to differ.

Try Americans United or The Interfaith Alliance. Two very large groups pushing back against the religious right on a daily basis.

Many of us as individuals are out there working in the peace and social justice arenas, and in the political realm, too.

Just coz YOU don't know it exists, doesn't make your statement true in the least.

[scaryadam]

27. I'm with you.

Unlike many of his ilk, Mike Huckabee is respectful and won't ramble on about unsubstantiated things. He has very strong convictions and religious beliefs, which I very much disagree with, but when I hear him speak, he doesn't seem like he is looking down on me because I disagree. I feel like I could have a good debate with him on any topic and he would hold his own with his speaking points on nearly any topic. Like I said, ::spray the flame retardant around:: I disagree with his social policies, but I honestly think he is a good, likable man.

And another thing, the tax plan that he supports (has building Bi-partisan support, its not just repubs pushing this) to fix the tax issue (FairTax; essentially eliminating income taxes and others, and replacing them with a flat, 24-26ish percent sales/use tax on new goods) is not a half bad idea, even though it is a complete turnaround to how we have done it for years, and members of both sides like it. Yes there are some kinks that would need to be worked out, like what to do to save for times of economic slowdown and how to handle that (we are dealing with an issue like that in Colorado with TABOR, big piece of shit that is)... but conservationists should all love the idea. Get taxed on what you use? Hell yeah. That way people with way to much money, with their wasteful spending on things they don't need, get taxed the most. Also, it essentially taxes tourists, illegal immigrants, drug dealers, interstate internet based businesses, etc since they are taxed on what they buy. My favorite part is that used/recycled goods wouldn't be taxed either, so it would HUGELY encourage people to think green. There is a lot more to it that I don't want to talk about, but I think with some ironing, there could be huge potential to reform our tax system. Look into it, and don't just take it as republican propaganda, because it is a bipartisan plan. Thats all for now ::puts on flame-protecting suit::

[Arugula Latte]

42. Sorry, but ALL of religion is "unsubstantiated things." All of it. It's ALL based on made-up stuff.

It's not fact, it's not science. It's all stories, myths, supernatural beliefs and superstitions wrapped up in dogma. That goes for Christianity, Islam, Judaism, you name it.

As Mark Twain said, "Faith is believing what you know ain't so."

[TreasonousBastard]

49. But, betcha can't prove that scientifically. So far...

while it's easy to explode most of the religious mythology out there, science has yet to prove there are no gods. It hasn't even come up with a definition of god that it can work with.

Kinda like how science still hasn't explained why you like certain music, or why a painting may have such an effect on you. Psychology and behavioural studies have come a long way, but still don't understand the underpinnings of spiritual belief.

Most of what we do isn't science, of course, and "science" is essentially just an exact way of measuring things that can be measured.

(I have nothing against science, of course, and use it often enough, but it can be, and often is, as misused as religion)

[Swamp Rat]

56. "science has yet to prove there are no gods" = 'Science' does not have to prove this negative in

order to exist or function as a paradigm of understanding. It does not require a definition of 'god', or an explanation of "the underpinnings of spiritual belief" beyond empirical evidence.

:shrug:

[TreasonousBastard]

59. But you said absolutely that there are no gods...

and that it's all nonsensical. You must have some proof to make such a sweeping statement. Proving a negative is always a bitch, but sometimes it can be done if you really, really try.

I am well aware that "science" doesn't really address the issue directly, although there have been some odd experiments trying to measure the soul or finding a universal intelligence. the problem is that religion is no more scientific than emotion is, but exists and might perhaps be as an important part of our being as emotion.

It's all too easy to pop away at the mythology, but in the end you guys always simply postulate that there is no god simply because there is no evidence acceptable to you that there is one. That just means there might not be one and is no more scientific than believing in gods or other intelligent life in the universe.

So, back up your statement that there are no gods and all of it is bullshit.

Scientifically.

(If you can't, then it's just a matter of faith, isn't it?)

on edit:

I just realized it wasn't you who said that, but the other guy a few posts up.

(I'm guessing you agree with him, though.)

[Swamp Rat]

61. "But you said absolutely that there are no gods" - Where?

"in the end you guys.... " I think, perhaps, you are confusing me with someone else.

"So, back up your statement that there are no gods and all of it is bullshit." - What statement? :shrug:

"Scientifically" - What do you mean 'scientifically?' What is your definition of this word?

[RedCappedBandit]

64. It is not the responsibility of science to disprove

every piece of fiction ever written.'

Science, as it is, is simply the observation of the natural world. The fact that we have yet to explain certain things is meaningless.

Why do you think "science" has to come up with a definition of "god" or prove there are no "gods" ?

Religion is like a security blanket. It exists because it is comforting to have faith that there is more in store for us after death. It is a tool that we have used throughout our history to explain things that we do not understand. Unfortunately for religion, all of its explanations are worthless.

[SammyWinstonJack]

43. "FairTax"

:argh:

[Ikonoklast]

50. So you're saying Huckabee will be smiling when he sees you burned at the stake

For not believing god as he does, that makes him an OK guy?

Fuck Huckleberry and his religious bullshit. He is a wolf in sheep's' clothing just as crazy and judgmental as all the rest of the fundie nutjobs; he just hides it better.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

58. Huckabee

is a religious kookball, Libertarian.

When he eliminates the current tax structure, what replaces it? No one has ever given me an answer that makes any sense.

He wants a Constitutional amendment to outlaw abortion. He believes the world is 6,000 years old and that HUMANS killed them off.

The trolls get thickest right before an election.

[charlie]

30. It's on YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1O9xTLTBc8

[Mushroom]

34. This Huckabee?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/12/04/documents-expose-huckabee_n_75362.html

[Minimus]

35. I also agee with him on some things. Like when he defended Bill and

Hillary and chastised his own party for attacking the Clintons about their marriage. He did it on more than one occassion but here is one example from an NPR interview:

“The second thing, and this will really rankle some of my Republican colleagues, Bill Clinton and Hillary went through some horrible experiences in their marriage because of some of the reckless behavior that he has admitted he had. I am not defending him on that, it’s indefensible. Just let’s not let it get lost on us that they kept their marriage together. They raised a magnificent daughter. Chelsea is truly a delightful human being…She’s polite, thoughtful, intelligent and everything you would hope a daughter to be. But they kept their marriage together. And a lot of the Republicans who have condemned them and talk about their platform of family values, interestingly, didn’t keep their own families together. Give Bill and Hillary Clinton credit for doing something we say they should have done and that is hold their marriage together in spite of enormous trials.”

http://www.npr.org/about/press/2007/081707.huckabee.html

[Obamarama]

36. Fucking hell. MY HEAD IS GOING TO EXPLODE IF I READ ONE MORE POST LIKE THIS

So, OP, did ya ever think people reading your semi-cryptic post might fucking wonder WHAT THE HELL MAHER AND HUCKAFUCK WERE ARGUING ABOUT?

DO YOU THINK WE MIGHT WANT TO KNOW THE JIST OF THEIR DEBATE? AND WHY YOU MIGHT AGREE WITH HUCKAFUCK?

I'm not expecting a two page synopsis. JUST THE GENERAL JIST OF THE DISCUSSION.

I hate these posts where people make comments about issues, events, things and then give you so little information to go on that you're wondering "WTF?"

If you're going to take the time to post, at least make it fucking intelligible.

Okay...rant off. Feel better now.

[TreasonousBastard]

39. Yeah, I hate it when that happens, too. If you...

read through the thread you might have caught the little part where I mentioned some of what they talked about.

(Might have skipped over it to get to that "fat" subthread that was deleted, though. Things like that are far more mindboggling, and fun, than cryptic OPs).

Anyway, I'm stuck on dialup and it's tough seeing the parts that I missed, so it might even turn out that I don't agree with him that much after all.

What I did see, however, was Huckabee shredding Maher over the business of Mother Theresa doubting her faith. Huckabee seems to understand the proper distinction between faith and belief and that's a profound distinction that few, even of the faithful, seem to understand.

[earth mom]

38. Here's the truth about religion:

http://zeitgeistmovie.com/

Huckabee and his ilk are full of shit, I don't care how "nice" they are.

They are evil nasty control freaks who want to tell women what to do with their own bodies and who want to take away the rights of gays. :puke:

[TreasonousBastard]

41. Speaking of full of shit...

oh, never mind.

(I'd be wasting my time again)

[QueenOfCalifornia]

68. Your Original Post

gave zero clue what your new religious guru said and what Bill M. said.

None.

You claimed to agree with Huckabee on religion. As I've said here on this thread already, Huckabee is about the furthest from moderate about his religious beliefs as Sarah Palin and the people who run Jesus Camp.

If you toss out some crap here the poo will fly right back at you.

[Greyhound]

45. As any mental health professional will confirm, attacking a delusional person's

delusions is potentially dangerous. They are likely to turn violent when the construct of myth is shown to be false or derived from other delusions they've already discounted.

[QC]

47. Have you contacted Dennis K. and told him that his moral and political principles

are based on mere delusions?

[Greyhound]

53. Not at all, he credits the social organizations and the adversity of his youth

as primary formers of his social consciousness. Yes, he believes in a "higher force", however, he has no wish to impose his beliefs on anybody else, and that's what is important.

There is no invisible man in the sky, and the voices can be silenced or quieted with lithium.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

69. Another

"You can have no morals without religion" post.

Holy shit! No morality without all that religion! I am doomed to rob the 7-11 and beat my kids before dinner!

[fascisthunter]

44. flamebait garbage

[NashVegas]

48. That's Not a Live Interview

It looks and sounds like Mike or someone else conducted the interview earlier, and spliced Mike asking questions into a finished video.

[TreasonousBastard]

52. I noticed that, and...

several times the editing was clumsy enough that you wondered what was cut out to bolster Huckabee's point.

But, very few TV interviews are live, and usually part of the deal is the interviewee agrees to allow editing. I trust Fox editing far less than, say, PBS, but I saw little reason to have a problem with the meat of the discussion.

(But, if I ever get to see the whole segment, I could change my mind)

[Solon]

51. Well, I'm not entirely sure what they were debating on...

However, from the gist in this thread, I'm assuming they were debating on whether religion is a positive or negative influence on society at large. My own opinion on this is that most religions are neutral. Take, for example, the examples of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, all of them use similar guidebooks for moral and ethical guidance, and those books are so ambiguous they can be used to justify atrocities, and condemn those same atrocities at the same time.

This applies to any issue, from abortion, to GLBT rights, equal rights for women, etc. As such, its difficult to pigeonhole believers on any one issue. Indeed, it seems that individual ethics, developed from an influence that isn't based in any religion, is more likely to create ethical individuals. A person who is raised to believe in a sense of fairness for all people will, if raised Christian, ignore passages in the Bible that negate their worldview, while emphasizing other passages. Same is true for a Christian not raise to believe in a sense of fairness.

So this brings up a valid question, is religion a source for ethical or unethical behavior, or is it simply a tool to justify predetermined ethical codes of the individual?

[TreasonousBastard]

55. Although far off the point..

(whatever the point was...) I've believed for years that religion started out partly as an explanation for the unknown and partly as a convenient means of establishing an authority for societal mores. It also came in handy for establishing the authority of the king-- even the king had to bow to God (but the King tended to bow as he chose).

It also, and here's the fun part, functions as a place where fond myths and non-rational knowledge reside. Non-rational knowledge is not the same as irrational, and is probably better called non-verbal. This could be the sudden "A-Ha!" of a scientist (Newton and the apple) or the changes to a mystic in a trance. The scientist will analyze and measure this insight, and the mystic will simply accept it, but in both cases they will find a use for it.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

57. Huckabee

is a religious nut ball.

So, you agree with him.... :crazy:

he believes in "intelligent design" & thinks the world is about 6,000 years old. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-BFEhkIujA

Religion is what will destroy this society. The Christian Taliban is doing its best to take us right back to 100 years prior to King George.

[RedCappedBandit]

63. The effect of religion on society...

things like hatred, bigotry, war...

Gotta love religion.

[VPStoltz]

65. I've been living in this so called Christian society all my life.

And I can't name ONE Christian I know who observes the Ten Commandments with any kind of reverence - NOT ONE!
They worship money.
They covet everything that isn't theirs.
They throw their parents into nursing homes.
Divorce is at 50%, no doubt caused by infidelity.
Killing - it's a way of life for this country.
The Sabbath? Name ONE so called Christian corporation that shuts down on the Sabbath.

I could go on.

[Toasterlad]

73. Actually, Chik-Fil-A Is Closed on Sundays, Specifically to Observe the Sabbath.

Which pisses me off, because I often have a hankering for a Chik-fil-A sammich on a Sunday.

You just KNOW the Board of Directors are eagerly awaiting the death of the geezer in charge so they can abolish that nonsensical rule.

[Jed Dilligan]

66. I credit religion with some good baseline stuff

Like being able to get to the store without having to worry about cannibals--that sort of thing. However, any increase of religion in the public sphere is not likely to make these effects stronger. Instead, it will make religion's negative effects--war, hate, bigotry--much stronger, perhaps to the point that they cancel out the baseline effects. Getting caught by the Morality Police isn't much different, in the end, from getting caught by cannibals.

[Oilwellian]

67. Huckabee is a dominionist

Why are you giving America's Christian Taliban kudos? That's fucked up.

[Shallah Kali]

75. Article: Huckabee: Amend Constitution to be in 'God's standards'

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2007/Huckabee_Amend_Constitution_to_meet_Gods_0115.html

I am wary of theocrats whether they are openly rabid or slyly charming.

"I have opponents in this race who do not want to change the Constitution," Huckabee told a Michigan audience on Monday. "But I believe it's a lot easier to change the Constitution than it would be to change the word of the living god. And that's what we need to do -- to amend the Constitution so it's in God's standards rather than try to change God's standards so it lines up with some contemporary view."

When Willie Geist reported Huckabee's opinion on MSNBC's Morning Joe, co-host Mika Brzezinski was almost speechless, and even Joe Scarborough couldn't immediately find much to say beyond calling it "interesting,"

Scarborough finally suggested that while he believes "evangelicals should be able to talk politics ... some might find that statement very troubling, that we're going to change the Constitution to be in line with the Bible. And that's all I'm going to say."

Geist further noted of Huckabee that if "someone without his charm," said that, "he'd be dismissed as a crackpot, but he's Mike Huckabee and he's bascially the front-runner."