On profanity.

[Beregond2]

Personally I find the widespread use of profanity in today's society really disheartening. I wonder sometimes if people realize how quickly it has happened. When "Good Will Hunting" came out, I was completely shocked and disgusted by the fact that every other word was "fuck." The defense, of course, was: "But that's how people in South Boston talk." My response to that was: if you include that kind of language in a maintream film, you are giving tacit approval of it, and it will spread. And so it has. Hollywood filled it's movies with vulgar language, and now one can't go anywhere without encountering it.

At the gym where I work, I used to spend half my time telling guys to watch their language, "there are ladies present." Now, there are no ladies, just foul-mouthed women who are as bad as the men. It is no longer possible for me to take my mother to a movie, because it is almost certain she will be deeply offended. Even going out in public is a risk. If it isn't someone yelling some filth, it is a T shirt with something revolting on it; often on a parent with children in tow!

It is easy to say: "they are only words." But words are powerful, they shape our thoughts, our experience of life. Profanity is, by it's very nature, violent. It expresses contempt, for other people, for life itself when overused. Do we want to live in a society that is riddled with ugliness of spirit? This is why I never found George Carlin's "Seven Words" routine funny. It was disingenuous. It pretended that words don't matter, while using words to get cheap laughs. And the philosophy behind it - that we hould have an "anything goes" attitude toward language - has led to the tawdry public discourse we see today.

Worse, profanity undercuts verbal creativity. Imagine "Casablanca" if today's writers had written it. "Fuck you, Ilsa, you lying cunt!" "Bite me, Rick, you limp-dicked faggot!" "Nigger, play that fuckin' song!"

Words matter, enormously. The saying should be: "Sticks ands stone may break my bones, but words can kill my spirit."

Lest all this make me sound like a complete fudd, I should point out that my favorite swear word is "Godfuckingdamnitalltohell!" Swearing has it's place, and I love a truly creative swearer. But the casual and endemic use of profanity robs it of it's power and coarsens our lives.

When Shaw needed a shocker to close a scene in "Pygmalion," he had Eliza Doolittle say: "Not bloody likely!" Forty years later, when adapting the scene for "My Fair Lady," Alan Jay Lerner had to up the ante to: "Move your bloomin' arse!" Twenty years later, someone asked him what he would have her say to elicit the same response then. He replied: "Alas, that kind of shock is no longer possible."

And that is a real loss.

[YOY]

1. See the documentary "F***"

In/t

[Xenotime]

233. 'FUCK' is a very beautiful word.

Prehaps one of the most interesting words in the English language today is the word fuck

Out of all the English words that begin with the letter "f" Fuck is the only word that is referred to as the "f" word.

It's the one magical word. Just by it's sound can describe pain, pleasure, hate and love.

Fuck, as most words in the English language, is derived for German the word "fleckin" which means to strike.

In English fuck falls into many grammatical categories
As a transitive verb for instance
"John fucked Shirley."

As an intransitive verb
"Shirley fucks."

It's meanings not always sexual. It can be used as an adjective as in "John's doing all the fucking work."

As an adverb
"Shirley talks too fucking much."

As an adverb enhancing an adjective
"Shirley is fucking beautiful!"

As a noun
"I don't give a fuck!"

As a part of a word
"Absofuckinglutly!"
or
"Infuckincredible!"

And as almost every word in the sentence
"Fuck the fucking fuckers."

But you must realize that aren't too many words with the versatility of fuck. As in these examples describing situations such as
Fraud.
"I got fucked at the used car lot."

Dismay
"Ah fuck it!"

Trouble
"I guess I'm really fucked now."

Aggression
"Don't fuck with me buddy"

Difficulty
"I don't understand this fucking question"

Inquiry
"Who the fuck was that?"

Disatisfaction
"I don't like what the fuck is going on here."

Incompetantce
"He's a fuck off"

Dismissal
"What don't you go outside and play hide-and-go fuck yourself?"

I'm sure you can think of many more examples. With all of these multipurpose applications how can anyone be offended when you use the word?

We say use this unique, flexable word more often in your daily speech. It will identify the quality of your character immediately.

Say it loudly and proudly!
FUCK YOU!

[YOY]

262. Oh I've seen that before but the documentary is called "F***" not "Fuck"

n/t

[LaurenG]

2. ***

Popcorn - get your popcorn here:popcorn:

I could be mistaken but I'm thinking this may not go well.

[Muttocracy]

3. often a sign of someone being too lazy or dumb to express themselves more precisely. nt

[Iggo]

6. And just as often used merely as a throw-away word.

Or for flavor.

Or even, as one of my English professors professed, as a substitute for "uh" or "um".

[Muttocracy]

9. yeah, they are just becoming placeholders or for emphasis

I'd rather hear Biden say "LITERALLY!" or I tend to throw in too many "really"s but fuckin' is a pretty weird thing to throw in when you consider what it means. As does "fuck you" - when someone said that to me once, I said, "no thanks!"

[Turbineguy]

4. Profanity

is the crutch of the inarticulate motherfucker.

But you are right. The words are not outrageous or funny anymore. It adds nothing to the dialogue. The context is lost. It's just nothing.

[surrealAmerican]

228. I agree. I think the casual use of profanity is just a symptom ...

... of the ever-diminishing vocabulary most Americans have access to.

[southpaw]

5. ***Edited for the overly sensitive***

Words are just a collection of letters put together to create a particular sound.

Words only have power if we give them power.

[Bluebear]

10. Being called a faggot, for example, is a painful experience.

It's not easy to explain away as syllables which are given power only if the listener lets them have the power. It's not given to everybody to be "strong" (i.e. not "overly" sensitive), so truly words can cut like a knife and do matter.

[southpaw]

13. I know what you mean

I was called queer, faggot, fag, pussy etc. all through high school... and I'm straight.

Words can hurt, and I never use racial epithets, particularly ni##ger.

I guess my reaction has to do with words like fuck, goddamn, asshole, shit and things like that.

Just because I say shit, it doesn't make a big pile of it appear right under your nose. It's just a word.

[Winterblues]

39. Go ask for a loan from a banker using that language.

Words do indeed matter whether it is to you or someone else, but they matter..

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

62. Are you a god damn bank manager?

Am I asking for a fucking loan?

[ColbertWatcher]

136. LOL! n/t

[jhrobbins]

204. But here again, it is all about context and intent. My friends and I

on occasion will say, 'Geez, you're such a fag' and of course, it is meant in an entirely different way than if some redneck hangs out of a truck and yells, 'Hey Fag'.

[Bluebear]

223. Why would you use that term? What kind of context allows that?

[JonLP24]

240. I've heard G&L use the term for each other

In the context they use it is more of a friendly joke and entirely different in context. For example when my wife talks to her friends they often use the word bitch talking to each other. But of course they are being friendly and playful way. I don't know if you know what I'm talking about but it is common for me to see people use such hurtful terms and use it other ways that aren't offensive at all. The N word is a common example, it can be used in very hurtful ways but many use it a way that isn't hurtful at all.

[jhrobbins]

252. Don't start with me on that. You know, as well as I , that this is a VERY

common usage in our community. And I am saying it to my friends in a private setting and you never have to be assailed by it from me. So, if you don't like it, don't say it.
Just like the old NOW saying, 'If you don't like abortions, don't have one.

[Bluebear]

255. Well how the hell community did I know you were in?

So cut me some slack, bitch!

Kidding, kidding :)

[Fearless]

247. Exactly!

[Fearless]

246. But is it being called it or the meaning it implies?

It's a generational thing, a take back the word thing... like queer and dyke as well.

[Beregond2]

32. Really? Try thinking without words. How far do you get?

Words are central to everything in human experience. There is nothing more powerful.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

49. Are you one of those people who move their lips when they read?

Say, you're not this person, are you?
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2008/10/ore_mom_wont_return_bunny_suic.html

[LostinVA]

201. That'snothing but a copout so people can use bigooted language against someone else

Language has the power to KILL people. Matthew Shepherd. 12Million during the Holocaust. The victms in Rwanda. It gets women beaten and black men lynched. Words can be weapons.

[justaregularperson]

230. Actually, words are extremely powerful

I am currently reading a book on the mind and language. Words are *always* tied to ideas and pictures and have much more power over our minds than we tend to think they do.

That is why the Republicans have been so good at subverting our ideals. They understand and take advantage (and abuse) the power of words.

[Idealism]

7. Truly

it is ideas that are powerful, not words. Words are false actions, things that have not happened yet- nor does that mean they will. Telling someone to "Fuck off" because they annoyed you is pretty meaningless these days. Telling that same person "I am going to set fire to your house" in a perfectly level tone is suspicion enough to warrant a police report. Ideas help justify actions to people, words only describe what they want those ends to be.

[Beregond2]

37. Yes, but ideas without words to express them are impotent.

It is words that give them their power.

[DS1]

8. _

[Muttocracy]

12. such a great photo. I only saw the movie once - should see it again. :)

[Rude Horner]

195. Definitely. Watch it again!!

A true classic comedy if there ever was one.

You want a toe? I can get you a toe. There are ways, Dude. You don't wanna know about 'em. I can get you a toe by this afternoon. With nail polish! :rofl:

[TroglodyteScholar]

50. The Stranger: Do you have to swear so much, Dude?

Dude: The fuck are you talking about?

[bobd0]

130. THE DUDE ABIDES! One of my all-time favorite movies.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

178. The Chinaman is not the fucking issue, Dude!

[Chovexani]

11. Build a bridge and get over yourself, please.

At the gym where I work, I used to spend half my time telling guys to watch their language, "there are ladies present." Now, there are no ladies, just foul-mouthed women who are as bad as the men.

I find this sentiment far more offensive than any four letter word. Amazing how often petulant finger waggers share it.

[southpaw]

16. That's kinda what led to my initial reaction to this thread

I fucking hate finger-wagging ninnies:

for example:

[Chovexani]

18. You betcha.

Darn tootin'.

I'm hoping for a hilarious flounce, myself.

[RainDog]

24. LOL

I want to use that phrase now.

I also thought it was fairly disgusting for this "lady" to speak for all of the "women" in the world. I'm an adult and I can take my language straight up, thanks. No Shirley Temple for me.

[TZ]

101. GASP--RainDog

Aren't your delicate little ears turning red from all the bad words being used here--why, we can't have that can we?:rofl: :hi:
I think you need to tighten up your corset a little...
(holy crap is this the last thing I expected on a progressive site!)

[drmeow]

28. Exactly

As if having a uterus makes me too sensitive to hear "naughty" words.

[RainDog]

40. why OF COURSE having a uterus makes you too sensitive to hear naughty words

where do you think Freud came up with his idea of "hysteria?" why, by denying sexual abuse of "ladies:, that's how!

Oh and Freud is a goldmine of misogynistic use of words/ideas. Females were "the dark continent" in his terms At a time in history when Western Europe was at the height of colonization of those "dark" people.

Freud asked "What do women want?" Then refused to ask them or hear them (or more precisely the suffragettes) and so OBVIOUSLY the answer was that women wanted a penis. LOLOLOL.

Only when "penis" is the linguistic substitute for equal protection under the law - but to come to that conclusion, Freud would've had to assume that the world outside of the human mind/the family mattered to women - and that was too threatening for males. They might have had to compete with women rather than control them.

[Chovexani]

45. THIS.

:yourock:

[rebel with a cause]

210. And the protection of womanhood (especially white ones)

is the excuse used for most racism. So lets not go there and do not put women up on a pedestal, we feel very isolated up there. Let us be who we are. I don't want to be as bad as a man, heaven help us, but I want the freedom to be that bad if I want to. ;)

My curse words are used to show emotion. I do not use derogatory language, but gosh darn it, I do use words that would have gotten my mouth washed out with soap as a child. In other words, I find this all kind of silly, to worry about the bad words one says. I would be more worried about the racist, sexist and other harmful language, action and such things.

[sarge43]

229. Anyone who thinks 'ladies' can't say or hear

rude words obviously hasn't never been in a delivery room.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

41. Jeebums Christ!

[vanderBeth]

61. Won't somebody PLEASE think of the children!

:rofl:

[Fearless]

245. Ohh my freakin ears!

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Beregond2]

53. Who said anything about "protecting?"

I was talking about respect. I find the indiscriminate use of profanity just as offensive with regard to men, but it is useless to talk about that. In this society, men are expected to put up with endemic disrespect from cradle to grave, and anyone who objects is "unmanly." I apologize for thinking that there might still be a shred of respect for women that I could use to shame some guys into adult behavior. It used to work. It doesn't anymore.

[Chovexani]

57. Well, I'm done beating my head against this archaic wall.

Welcome to ignore. It's comfy and you'll have lots of company.

[Zhade]

123. Great. You find it offensive. Guess what? NO ONE GIVES A FUCK.

YOU aren't the arbiter of speech or manner for anyone but yourself. Learn that and accept it. You have NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER to try to dictate others' speech.

[TZ]

96. Wow could you be MORE condescending to women?

Any other thoughts you want to think for me? That I should be grateful that you men allows delicate little me to work, and don't worry my pretty little head off if I make less than men..thats just the way things work! GRRRRR-its ATTITUDES LIKE THIS that are holding women back!
You know what..you really deserve this..FUCK YOU AND YOUR VICTORIAN ATTITUDE.:grr:

[Forkboy]

108. This is gold, Jerry! Gold!

[redqueen]

170. Dang...I missed it!

x(

[SpookyCat]

79. I hate to admit this...

but that kind of finger wagging brings out my inner 16 year old BIG time!


LOL

[Duppers]

237. 'inner 16 yr old' LOL!

hahaaaa! love it.
I let my inner 16 yr old out often. Feels fuckin' good too! ;)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

14. Too Many Bitching Bout Goddamn Fucking Words Today. Shit, Let's Focus On That Fucking Asshole McCain

and his motherfucking bitch of a running mate palin instead, ok?

[RoseMead]

30. Sometimes

you crack my ass up! :rofl:

[TZ]

100. OH NOEZ! You've damaged my delicate sensibilities!

:rofl: :thumbsup:

[Rude Horner]

198. Operation MC-you on a roll !!

:rofl:

[KitchenWitch]

207. My poor virgin ears

I shall never recover from this...

:crazy:

[yella_dawg]

15. Glorification of ignorance.

It's all around us. For those without a vocabulary, it's all they have.

[a la izquierda]

103. Pardon me, I have a vocabulary,

I'm a woman, and I cuss. I've spent 10 years working on three degrees.
I also have manners, know when it's okay to swear and know that I probably could only tolerate 5 minutes around the sanctimonious likes of you and the OP.

Give me a small break.

(ooh, I did it all without swearing!!)

[alarimer]

17. Oh, for fuck's sake.

You berate people because there are "ladies" present? As if they haven't heard (or said) it all before. How sexist of you.

They are only words.

[Chovexani]

20. I would rather be a woman than a lady, personally.

Women get shit done.

[Athens30603]

205. True...

...but Rosie The Riveter worked for the war machine. :sarcasm:

[Beregond2]

47. Yes, it is terribly sexist of me to expect women to be

treated with respect. I have been told that on more than one occasion; which is evidence of how degraded women's own self-respect has become. Letting men treat you in the same obnoxious way they treat each other is sure some progress you've achieved. Congratualtions.

[Lilith Velkor]

65. Yes, it is.

You can go on pretending that treating women as if they were children is the same thing as respect, but it's not.

[Beregond2]

67. So anyone who doesn't want to be exposed to disgusting

language is a child? That would come as news to my 88 year old mother.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

68. Either a child, or an awfully immature adult.

Yes.

"That would come as news to my 88 year old mother."

I bet your mom cusses like a sailor when you're not around. Lord knows I would.

[Beregond2]

73. Mom was raised by loggers, so yes, she has a very complete

vocabulary, and isn't afraid to use it when appropriate! She also has the class to know when it ISN'T appropriate, which is the topic.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

76. Ooo, moving goal posts!

Now there are times when it is and isn't appropriate!

How wonderful.

[Beregond2]

91. I said that in my first post. Re-read it.

I have no problem with profanity, used as a release, or even used with witty creativity. In fact, I love that. I am talking about people who can't complete a sentence without it, which is what is becoming the norm in our society.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

98. As long as that time and place isn't at the gym...

or in movies, or in public, or around the weaker sex...

:rofl:

[fudge stripe cookays]

226. And who made you the arbiter of when something is appropriate?

Most of here KNOW not to go into a bank manager's office and start tossing around 4 letter words.

We're on an internet board, sparky. I'll say whatever I want, and knowing that it irritates you makes me even happier.

Newsflash: Women don't have to wear iron maidens anymore, either. Who'da thunk it??

[Lilith Velkor]

105. "Anyone" can bloody well say something herself if she doesn't care for the discourse.

It's not up to the men anymore, despite what your mother may have said several decades ago.

You're just mad that it doesn't have the desired effect of bothering women as much. Well, tough shit.

[RainDog]

87. YES!!!!!!!!!! this is EXACTLY the point the op misses

and the construct of her reality is like something out of a cheap romance novel.

[Beregond2]

95. "Her?" I'm a man. A gay man, but still...

And I loathe romance novels.

[RainDog]

119. pardon. since your focus was on females, I assumed you were one

Does the appropriation of the word "queer" by the gay community bother you? I think that was a brilliant move.

One thing that it is not defined in your op, however, are the sorts of words you find offensive. all of them? ones related to bodily functions? ones that are putdowns based upon race or sexual orientation?

the interesting thing that has come out of various liberation and identity movements to me, in terms of language, is the appropriation and use of words that were previously meant to be used against that same group.

Bitch Magazine, for instance, uses that word for a name to say that the women who create and contribute to it are embracing the term, bitch, for the positive meanings - as forceful women who speak their minds and who are interested in various forms of popular culture - grrrl culture, outsider art... and by appropriating the terms meant to disparage, the terms themselves, when used to hurt, are diminished for the group that the terms is supposed to demean.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

66. Frankly, I'm reminded of Anita Bryant.

There's a fine line, IMO, between people who would ban words they find vulgar, with people who would ban sex acts they consider vulgar. Always in the name of "protecting the children." Or poor defenseless women, in your case.

[Beregond2]

80. I was fighting Anita Bryant long ago. And I didn't need to talk

like a thirteen year old trying to shock his parents to do it. That would have been the least productive thing I could have done.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

84. Hey, it's DU.

If you're going to present these ultra-conservative views, you're going to get mocked for it.

[Beregond2]

106. "Ultra-conservative?" LOL!

Behaving like an intelligent adult instead of an uneducated child is conservative? OK, then I guess my lifetime of fighting for liberal causes was a farce. I'll go join the Republican Party now.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

107. Start acting like an intelligent adult, and I'll let you know.

You're acting like an uneducated child. Crossed with Anita Bryant.

"OK, then I guess my lifetime of fighting for liberal causes was a farce."

Yes, Beregond, you are a farce. This thread is a farce. Your arguments are a farce. And given your enormous credibility gap, I'll have to assume your "lifetime of fighting for liberal causes" is a farce.

[Beregond2]

117. Thank you for such a highly intelligent defense of

your arguement.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

125. I'm not offering an argument in favor of vulgarity.

Just utterly destroying yours.

[TZ]

109. Acting like women need to be protected

by menfolk is not only conservative but down right Victorian. I think you were born about 100 years too late.

[Beregond2]

121. I guess you are right.

The next time same old lady has listen to some brain-dead thug talking about "doing his bitch," I'll applaud. The next time some moron lets a door slam in his girlfriend's face, I'll laugh. It's all up to you, "ladies." You are on your own. But when that disrespect crosses over into physical abuse, don't come crying to me. You don't need my protection. I get the message.

[TZ]

134. Um EXCUSE :ME!

Because I don't mind listening to cussing means that I'm willing to put up with PHYSICAL ABUSE?
How the FUCK do you get that. Do you REALLY think women are stupid enough to not be able to "defend" themselves from abuse becuse of that? Wow you really think we are walking wombs with no brains do you? This scientist says go jump in a lake..if you are smart enough to even figure out how to drive a damn car!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

140. Ooo, and now things get racial.

"Motherfucker! I want more iced tea!"


Please go on.

[ColbertWatcher]

174. "It's all up to you, "ladies." You are on your own."

Wow, where are you going?

First you talk about how your sensibilities are damaged because your ability to read the minds of every woman in earshot is being mocked, now you're talking about physical violence?

I know where this conversation is going: don't touch my porn, man.

Maybe you need to step away from the computor (LOL!) and listen to how people actually talk--you seem to confuse 4chan with the real world.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

188. Your OP was about the widespread use of profanity.

Now you're talking about old ladies and brain-dead thugs?

[JonLP24]

244. There was a time where I accidently let a door slam on my wife

I don't consider myself a moron over it because it was an accident. However, the majority of the time I hold doors open for anyone that is behind me about to enter. Now anyone who talks about "doing his bitch" is somehow engaged in criminal activity and is brain dead? You pretty much called me a moron so I wouldn't pass generalizations on people you don't know.

[Duppers]

235. thank you, t-sue

my thoughts exactly.

[Forkboy]

111. You just called women stupid. How is that respectful?

Disconnect much?

[Zhade]

126. False premise - swearing is only a sign of disrespect in YOUR mind.

Millions of people disagree with that assessment, and you don't get to decide what they think disrespect is.

[fizzgig]

222. i don't feel degraded when i'm treated like one of the guys

there is a difference between respect and condescension

[TahitiNut]

64. No shit.

Sounds like the patronizing crap from the 50s. I suppose this one would applaud the return of the Hays Code. :puke:

[Beregond2]

69. So asking people to treat each other with a modicum of respect

and wishing writers would show some verbal creativity, is the same as advocating censorship. Got it.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

71. You just called another DUer stupid...

and you pretend you want to treat people with respect?

You're pretty fucking funny.

[Beregond2]

75. Uh, no, I didn't. Nice language, BTW.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

78. Ooo, now you're lying to other people's faces.

"You are being conned by men who hold you in contempt, but if you are too stupid to see that, maybe you deserve nothing better."

Tsk tsk tsk.

What would your 88 year old mother think?

Hmm.

[Beregond2]

85. I said "...IF you are too stupid to see that..."

but that's splitting hairs I guess. So OK. I implied stupidity. I am arguing that indiscriminate use of vulgar language is generally disrespectful. If someone says something that, to me, clearly is stupid, I see no problem with pointing that out. What has this entire thread been but people calling me names and implying I am stupid? I have no problem with that. That isn't the topic.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

89. Ah, so now you've completely contradicted everything in your OP.

Look at that.

You've made a fool of yourself with your own words, and you didn't even use any vulgarity.

[TahitiNut]

77. It's not "respect". It's patronizing, over-controlling, and condescending.

If you're "spending half your day" telling others ANYTHING about THEIR behavior, then you're a scold and self-appointed nanny. There's NOTHING that demonstrates 'respect' in such an obsession whatsoever.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. If you want to SEE 'respect' then SHOW 'respect.' Judgmentalism does NOT demonstrate 'respect' - it demonstrates self-aggrandizement and DISRESPECT for others.

[Beregond2]

113. It was my job to remind people that the rules of the club

clearly stated that vulgar language would not be tolerated, and to encourage an environment of mutual respect. That is not being a "scold." Beleve me, I hated doing it. Confrontations of any kind pain me.

At any rate, it was a losing battle that I gave up on in time. And because of that, we have lost all our senior members, and most of the better-educated ones as well.

I am sorry that you find a civilized atmosphere so oppresive. No doubt you would fit right in there now.

[TahitiNut]

141. Actually, I wouldn't "fit in" ... not where the staff attitude is like you're showing.

:shrug:

[Zhade]

142. Once again, you wrongly assume your interpretation of civilized is the correct one.

You don't get to decide that for others. So sorry. Would have thought you learned that by now.

[RainDog]

179. You should have indicated this in your op

If it was your job to enforce the rules of the club and within that club vulgar language was forbidden, that's AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT THING than randomly griping at someone on the street.

In fact, your "ladies present" approach wasn't really appropriate to the situation because the rules are for everyone, male or female. You would only need to say that you are reminding this or that person of the rules, that it is your job to do so, and that your reminder was a "warning." (this assumes the rules actually have some teeth behind them - that if someone does use vulgarities they would face a consequence.)

After that, if this same person continued, then you should have had it in your power to ask them to leave. This, of course, is to make the rules mean something.

However, the situation you now describe is VERY specific and takes place within a certain environment with previously established rules. This is diff. than your other statements.

Churches have an unofficial or unstated policy that cursing is not allowed. People who go to that establishment are expected to abide by those rules. When they do not, they are removed. That's the comparison and I do not disagree with you about limiting language in these circumstances - people go in to them under pre-existing limitations for language.

Those who do not wish to abide by those rules can then avoid those places too. This is another issue entirely.

[rch35]

254. they probably left because of the asshole telling them to watch their language all the time. nt

[Zhade]

138. SMACKDOWN!

All that needs to be said, really.

[jhrobbins]

209. I might agree with you if I hadn't seen a thousand times in here

people getting totally dressed down if they said something that wasn't 'correct'. I'm betting that the post would be entirely different if the OP used a racial epithet or a sexual epithet. SO, it is about telling others about their behavior. I used the word fag in a post once to describe a situation and there were loads of scolds and self appointed nannies.

[TahitiNut]

214. Are you saying you too see little or no difference between profanity/vulgarity and hate speech?

Pitiful. :eyes:

[jhrobbins]

218. Of course I see the difference - I'm talking about the larger society and

that these epithets are no more upsetting to lots of people that vulgarities and the fact that they all diminish us. If we are going to be selective in the things that offend us, we have to allow that to others. He stated his opinion and he was savaged for it - to a point that I didn't understand.

[Duppers]

241. ....

:applause: :applause: :applause:

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[Zhade]

132. What you keep failing to comprehend is that YOU see it as disrespect, and others DON'T.

Just because you think it's disrespectful, IT DOESN'T MAKE IT SO.

[jhrobbins]

211. So I get to call another DUer a fag just so long as I didn't mean it

disrepectfully? I don't think you will agree with this - I don't either, but it seems to follow your line of thinking.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

220. There's a difference, jh, between vulgarity and bigotry.

The problem with "fag" isn't the vulgarity, it's the bigotry.

And the OP was talking about vulgarity, not bigotry.

But only the lamest of dipshits wouldn't already know that.

[jhrobbins]

251. What is the deal with you and these personal attacks. I was commenting

about what you had said, not about you personally. I get that it works fairly well as we are seeing with the Palin campaign. This is a Palin tact.

[BoneDaddy]

19. Fuck

is just a word and a good one. It can be overused, like some have mentioned, as a substitute for not being able to express oneself better. But, at times, there is nothing better than a good FUCK

[TWiley]

35. What the Fuck?

[BoneDaddy]

46. Fuck me

I am so fucking sorry that I offended you, )

[TWiley]

52. Fuckin A is NOT Fuckin B

eh?

[ShortnFiery]

59. Fuck you very much with an A and a B ...

:P I'll SEE your testes and RAISE you a set of ovaries! :evilgrin:

[BoneDaddy]

90. I fucking fold

[JuniperLea]

21. When in Rome...

It's a cultural thing. If someone speaks of a faggot, they mean a cigarette. And if they tell you to keep your pecker up, it means to stay positive. If you ask the hotel clerk to knock you up, you don't want to get preggers, you merely want a wake-up call. And the word cunt has very little meaning anymore because it has been used so much.

Words can be used as weapons; however, if you call an Englishman a faggot, he's going to wonder what's up with these silly Americans thinking it smart to be called a cigarette.

Personally, I choose to be rubber to your glue. What you call me is far more reflective of you than it is of me.

All that said, I am rarely offended by words, and I am far more inclined to be offended at words used to hurt another than to hurt me.

One final thought: I find it horribly offensive whenever someone says, "Watch your language; there are ladies present." To treat a woman differently than you would treat anyone else is horribly sexist.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

22. Profanity: The universal language when dealing with politicians or bubble wrap.

Though, it could be argued that bubble wrap actually serves a purpose.

[RainDog]

23. to each his or her own

I am repulsed by the vulgarity of sentiment created by maudlin displays of cheaply earned emotion -- the "Lifetime TV" version of reality.

Shakespeare was extremely vulgar in his plays upon words, as well as his themes. Then his works were edited by Bowdler- to make them acceptable reading for the "weaker" female mind (his view, not mine). No "Out, damn spot!" for the gentler sex. Whose version would I prefer? Not the "prettified" one.

Martin Luther, the great reformationist, is quoted as saying "Fuck the devil," and telling his fellow believers that they should "shit on the devil." His words conveyed the power of his convictions - and they display the lie of history we are given -- because throughout western intellectual history, cursing like a sailor has been part of our discourse.

For those who use language, teutonic-based words provide more aspirant thrust - and they are employed for this reason. Latinate words in English language have long been associated with frippery, not deeply felt emotions. This, again, is why Hemingway, for instance, was viewed as one sort of stylist while Fitgerald was another. I like Fitgerald's lyricism. But I also appreciate what Hemingway recognized in the power of words. Milton could use thousands of Latinate words to tell me that, as a woman, I am a horrid excuse for human flesh. That he didn't use the word "cunt" doesn't make the thought different. It just makes it more deceitful, linguistically.

Some people (myself included) will use "forbidden" words because of their forbidden quality - and please, there are still many forbidden words in this culture - and "Move your arse" still works for a story that exists in a particular place in time, no matter what - it draws a laugh.

The terms you use, "Lady," vs. "Woman" to indicate your dislike for those who choose to talk in a way you do not approve of has a long history as well. This difference, like a form of linguistic sexual abstinence promise, has long been a way for lower-class females to rise above their economic station. They may not have had the financial means to compete with richer females, but they could offer their "virtue." This is exactly how the British middle class intermarried with the aristocracy after the scientific revolution, in fact.

The use of "woman" vs. "lady" was an especially useful weapon in the late 1700s in Europe (can't tell you about the U.S.) when nations were demanding representative govt. This was also when woman thought they should be included in this democratizing moment too. Those were "women." Those who kept their mouths shut and didn't expect equality under the law were "ladies."

Those ladies were the focus of every Jane Austen novel written. Did you know Marianne, the foolish girl in Sense and Sensibility, shared a name with the French Revolutionary archetype for female liberty? C'est ca.

"Woman" the teutonic term, was the equivalent (and you use it here to that effect, as well) of whore.

Good girls and nice ladies stayed in their homes, didn't cause trouble for anyone, accepted they had no legal rights, accepted they could not vote, accepted a religion that told them they were not only weak, but that they were also so strongly evil, internally, that they created all sin in the world.

to which I say, Fuck that.

I love language.

[TahitiNut]

70. Bravo!

:applause:

[SpookyCat]

88. OMG! I think I love you!

Well put, m'lady! LOL!!!

One of my fav-o-rite Shakespeare "dirty" jokes,

"I'll put no pullet sperm in my brewage!"

[Beregond2]

104. You are seriously comparing saying "fuck" every five minutes

to Shakespeare's brilliant cursing? Give me a break.

As for all this arguing about how expecting women to be treated with respect is equivalent to sexism...that is exactly the arguement that has done more harm to the women's movement than any other factor. How about women arguing that men should treat each other with the same respect they used to treat women with? How about raising everyone to the same level? I see no advantage to anyone in our all wallowing in the same cesspool together.

Look, I get that old-fashioned "chivalry" had a sexist aspect to it. But we are light-years beyond that now. Do you seriously feel good when a man treats you like a guy he shares his football locker with? How so? How does that elevate your position?

I knew I was treading on thin ice when I used the word "ladies." Nothing raises the hackles of feminists more than that. I should have kept that out of it, and focused on language, which was the topic.

But I truly despise how women are being treated these days. It makes me want to deck half the straight guys I see. But if I am just incapable of seeing this from a woman's POV, I'll just drop it. Women certainly don't need me to stand up for them. I just hope there comes a time when people of both sexes see the advantage in treating each other with dignity and respect. And yes, that most definitely includes the language we use with each other.

[RainDog]

157. all the terms of usage in your complaint are too vague

you move from asking people at the gym to have respect for the ladies to talk about using fuck as every other word. you generalize about culture and, therefore, you get a generalized answer.

you assume women are treated badly, it seems, if they hear the word "fuck." From your op, at least, this is my understanding of your initial concern. You insult women who choose to use the word "fuck" and claim this makes them somehow of less worth than women who do not use that word, for instance.

Yes, this "concern" and put-down is offensive to many of us and you deserve to hear it if you choose to use terms like "woman" and "lady" as they have been used in the past, politically.

you move from focusing on men v. women to now asking women to be the moral vanguards (another rise of the middle class into Victorian era cliche, btw) to change men's treatment toward one another.

You assume men treat me in one way or another without any proof of this treatment. Men that I am friends with treat me well. I curse more than they do, but generally only when I'm angry about something. I curse more online than in real life. I save my best profanity for the bedroom.

I despise songs that talk about "hos." So I don't listen to them. I don't buy songs that have this language in them. I don't pay to see anyone who uses such terms. I do pay for music that I like. That's how such terms become useful or money-losing commodities in our modern culture for those that use them.

have you ever watched "Mad Men?" You can watch it at the AMC channel site online for free (at least the first season and the first ep of season 2. That show is a useful tool to see how a culture that claims to respect women debases them all the same, even if they do not use specific words to do so. The artifice, however, is very pretty.

[fishwax]

215. Good point about Mad Men

"have you ever watched "Mad Men?" You can watch it at the AMC channel site online for free (at least the first season and the first ep of season 2. That show is a useful tool to see how a culture that claims to respect women debases them all the same, even if they do not use specific words to do so. The artifice, however, is very pretty."

[redqueen]

187. Excellently said... esp. re: Women vs. "Ladies". Bra-FUCKING-vo!

:applause:

[planetc]

25. I think you show courage to make these points on this board

The over-use of these vulgarisms has more than one effect. They do coarsen the conversation and make the words themselves less potent, but using them all the time saves you from the effort of thinking out what you really want to say. "F***ing" everything indiscriminately means never having to say what you really mean, and leaves you open to the charge of not having much to say at all. It leaves me with the impression that the writer has a functioning vocabulary of 200 words, and probably won't have anything new or interesting to say. For some readers, the vulgarity in the subject line guarantees the post wo't be read.

[BoneDaddy]

26. Not really

you come across as not courageous but rather a pontificating prude with a superiority complex...

[LanternWaste]

36. Six of one, half a dozen of the other...

Six of one, half a dozen of the other... depends on where one stands on civility I guess.

[BoneDaddy]

44. maybe

but when we are on the verge of the most important election of the last 100 years, I think whining about cursing is weak in the least and completely off your fucking rocker, at best.

[LanternWaste]

48. I imagine many people can carry more than one concern...

"...but when we are on the verge of the most important election of the last 100 years"

I imagine many people can carry more than one concern on their shoulders at once. Much like we can also carry many justification and excuses on our shoulders at the same time.

[BoneDaddy]

51. Ok so you are saying that the current election

is on par with concern for how people use language, more importantly, the puritanical judgements about words that you may find offensive.

Ok...conversation done. We will not get anywhere. I personally think that this discussion at this juncture is totally ridiculous.

Thanks for sharing

[LanternWaste]

176. Nope.

"Ok so you are saying that the current election"

Nope. Only saying that most people have a clear propensity for engaging in multiple concerns at once--regardless of how one prioritizes them...

[BoneDaddy]

224. No argument for multi-tasking

just the value you put to the task.

[Zhade]

146. More like depends on where you stand on freedom.

The OP doesn't get to define for others that swearing is "uncivilized". That's not his job, and he doesn't have the right to apply his interpretation to others.

[LanternWaste]

180. a clear, precise and relevant difference between the two...

How can the OP make that decision for other by merely stating an opinion? No guns are being held to heads. No evidence of coercion.

There appears to be a clear, precise and relevant difference between the two...

[Zhade]

258. Not in intent, there isn't.

NT!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

34. "Courage" is pretty much the opposite of what I'm thinking.

[RoseMead]

27. Fuck that!

Sorry. Couldn't resist.:evilgrin:

Fuck is one of my favorite words though. And I am in no way inarticulate.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

29. Words can kill your spirit?

Fuck that lame ass bullshit.

What until you see those goddamn bats.

[Forkboy]

151. My spirit is diminished now.

Thanks a fucking lot.

[hfojvt]

31. was Good Will Hunting really the fu$%ing first?

Plus, every other word?

"Hey, do you like apples?"
"Yeah, sure."
"Well, I got her numba. How do you like them apples?"

Not a single f-word in that whole bar scene, until the young Affleck complains about running into a "fu$%ing Bahney"

One movie that kinda surprised me was "War Games" since I thought of that as a teen movie. I saw it on cable TV and lots of words were being bleeped out in that final scene.

I am not sure if it is a real loss that people are no longer shocked and appalled even by f-bombs, but I also do not care for casual use. One thing is it seems like people are almost being encouraged to let their anger fly freely in public. Even beyond language is the sense of decorum.

[sandnsea]

56. I've been saying "fuck" since 1970

when I was 14 years old. Where the fuck have all these people been. Yeesh.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

102. "Goodfellas" has WAY more "fucks" and variants than GWH.

[shadowknows69]

33. I blame Martin Scorsesse for most of mine

One of the first R-rated movies I ever saw was Raging Bull. Truly profanity was made artform in that movie.

[DrDebug]

54. I blame Richard Pryor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqQz23TMF98

He's dead now, so I can fucking blame that cock sucker whenever I fucking feel like it.

[Waiting For Everyman]

190. I blame Lennie Bruce.

And the Firesign Theater. :)

[codjh9]

43. You're right. I've cussed way more during the past 8 years, but it hasn't 'only' been W's fault.n/t

[Blue_Tires]

55. for the record, a modern-language "Casablanca" would be covered in AWESOME

but i do understand the general point you are getting across...i don't entirely agree, but i do understand...

[Jed Dilligan]

58. Oh, belgium!

[RainDog]

60. how dare you disrespect belgium!!!

if not for belgium, you wouldn't have french fries or godiva chocolates, not to mention the stock market.... oh, wait... fuck belgium. ;)

[Zhade]

149. HAHAHAHA!!!

Adams was a genius.

[altogetherooky]

63. And I think words have vibrations, don't you?

There are certain words which make us feel good and others which are negative and therefore emit bad vibes. And the environment becomes sullied. I am really with you on this and am not a prude either. I feel that we degrade ourselves and others with such talk in public. If you are with a crew who doesn't mind, then go for it. But it bothers me that there are too many people these days who do not seem to have a sense of decorum. They will be profane in front of seniors, children, women...And I'd like to extend this rant to spitting. Ick! I don't know what's in the water, but this boorish habit of hocking up phleghm on the sidewalk (not even the grass) is disgusting. Some guy at the bus stop did this yesterday, right after I had passed. I looked back and went: "Ew!" I actually had someone spit and it flew back towards me! I was majorly pissed...

[RainDog]

74. so, where does the "vibe" come from?

is the "vibe" the sound of the word or its meaning? Does the sound a word make have one vibe while its meaning another?

is merde a good vibe word or bad? it doesn't sound like a bad vibe. is shit a good or bad vibe word? if something is "good shit," is that a good or bad vibe phrase? or do the two words cancel out each other's vibe and create a no-vibe zone - or go off into infinity with no definitive vibishness?

If someone's last name is Fokker, is that person giving out bad vibes to the universe, or does the intent matter? In which case, if intent is the issue, no words need be spoken at all, right? If I know this person and say, hey, you old Fokker! mean I am disturbing the infinite? what about if I get mad at him and say, oh, you old Fokker!

What about saying "bless your heart" in the sweetest most unctuous tone possible, when you really mean "go to hell you stupid motherfucker." What's the "vibe" then?

[altogetherooky]

82. Well, thank you...that second to the last sentence explains it all

It's not the word itself; it's the INTENT. Now, I happen to believe that if you chanted 'hate' as a mantra, it would bum you out. Perhaps it's because you know what it symbolizes, but regardless of WHY, it just does. In any case, I just feel at the very least we should be mindful of where we are and be respectful to others, even if we have a different philosophy towards swearing (or various other habits). I used to be a smoker, but I was never one of those who would light up mindlessly in front of other people. I had an awareness and wasn't self-centered to the point of not caring if other people minded.

[RainDog]

200. so the "vibration" to which you refer is the emotion a word conjures

and not the word itself. And so, by "vibration" I assume you mean consciousness. For any word, of itself, to have any impact upon anything, the meaning of the word is what matters for the person.

So, if I dance around my house singing 'I'm a bitch, yeah! Fuck yeah! I'm a bitch!" and I mean that as an affirmation, as an expression of power over a bad circumstance, say, the words themselves are positive. Which would then mean that the words themselves have no meaning-vibrationally- outside of the context is which they are used.

I agree that we influence our consciousness by the words we say to ourselves and to the world, simply because we are creating a frame of reality. It doesn't matter what the words are. What matters is the value you ascribe to them.

In terms of language, however, the sound of words, or syllables, have meaning too that are tied to the history of our understanding of sounds. This isn't exactly the same thing - people may choose to use gratingly hard words to create empathy for an injustice, for instance. this doesn't mean someone is supporting the injustice by using the word, tho.

[BoneDaddy]

94. So when I say fuck and it is a good vibration

what then?

[trof]

72. Well, this Mr. Prissy agrees.

;-)
No, I'm not a prude.
I can and do (as a friend says) go off 'effing and ceeing and beeing' with the best of them.

But I hate to see the really rough ones in subject lines and I don't do that. To me, it's very off-putting.
Sometimes a very strong word is what just fits and is called for.

I'm reminded of a story out of WW II. A Lieutenant tells a friend "Today I heard the work 'fuck' used as an adjective, a noun and a verb in one sentence. My jeep took a round right through the engine block. Luckily we weren't in it. My top sergeant looked at it and sadly exclaimed
"The fuckin' fucker's fucked."

I think that many times people use these words here just because they can. They are used for shock value and attracting attention.
Personally, I think it's a bit juvenile.
'Showing off.'
But I'm a geezer and that's just me.
And I predict there will be a rash of these posts in response to this thread.
:-)

[Beregond2]

81. Thanks.

[TZ]

118. One question Trof (in all seriousness)

Do you really think you need to protect Mz.T from hearing bad words? Because there is an underlying patronizing/sexist quality to this OP that bothers me immensely.

[trof]

129. Who mentioned Miz t.? Let me tell you this:

Miz t. is no shrinking violet and not given to fainting spells.
Since dumbya has been in office I have been AMAZED at the depth and richness of her truly INSPIRED invective.

When it comes to brass bound, double down, foursquare, paint peeling cussing she can hold her own with George Carlin and spot you Lenny Bruce.

But she usually doesn't.
Except when dumbya come on TV.
And then it's just stand back, get out of the way, give her some room, and the air turns the deepest blue you've ever seen.
This kind, sweet, Christian lady.
Whew.

Protect her?
Naw, I need somebody to protect ME.
;-)

[TZ]

143. This was not a slam at her

but rather an attempt to illustrate that while there are valid points to make about the use of coarse language..the OP has no credibility because of his attitude that cursing is bad because it offends the ladies..thats the point I'm making here..the sexist condescention that the OP is pushing.

[trof]

172. Well, I don't see it.

Back in the day we didn't use coarse language in front of ladies.
Or our parents.
And we lit ladies' cigarettes and held doors open for them.
We walked on the outside (street side).
I think that may have been to protect them from the mud slung up by passing carriages. A bit outdated, but still a custom.
I still do it.
We would also throw down our cloaks over mud puddles so they wouldn't soil their shoes.
OK, I'm kidding about that.
;-)

The first time my grown (30-something) daughter used the word 'fuck' in a conversation with me I was gobsmacked.
It was like I'd been slapped in the face with a wet towel.
But I kept my cool.
I didn't flinch or blanch.
I ignored it.
Apparently it was a phase and, now in her late 30s, she doesn't do that any more.
Well, she has two small children now, so maybe she had to clean up her act.

I'm guess I still belong to what we used to call 'the old school'.
Yeah, maybe it's sexist according to today's customs.
Whatever.
Miz t. doesn't complain.
And when she's happy, I'm happy.
And that's about all that matters to me now.
;-)

[flvegan]

83. Well, shit.

[DS1]

86. How about "Douchegargler"?

[TZ]

112. Thats awesome!

Me and my delicate sensitivites love it!

[Eryemil]

92. Fuck

[MrCoffee]

93. I agree

These foul-mouthed women have no place in our decent society.

[TZ]

115. Well Mr. Coffee

You and your caffeinated beverages can just go fuck yourself you know....
*giggle* I've probably said fuck more in this thread than I have in the last week....:rofl:

[MrCoffee]

127. Thank you for proving my point, harlot.

Now put that burka back on and get 5 paces behind me before I hit you with a stick, Little Miss Uppity.

[Forkboy]

139. Us men won't protect you if you're going to talk like that.

I love and respect women, but if you're too stupid to see that....

:P

[TZ]

147. Yah---I just learned that the more I cursed...

The more likely I am to be physically abused because no man will protect crude little me..WAAAAAHHHH!:rofl:

[jus_the_facts]

152. WELL....

:dunce:

[Forkboy]

160. If I could think before saying something stupid...

...I wouldn't be stupid. :)

[jus_the_facts]

165. I just HAD to get that picture in this thread....this fucker too....

:toast:

[Lilith Velkor]

231. Picard version

:nerd:

[jus_the_facts]

250. Gotta love it....and I'll raise you one...

:rofl:

[SidDithers]

97. ...

Sid

[Starbucks Anarchist]

99. What the fucking fuckity fuck are you shitting yourself about?

[cherokeeprogressive]

110. I talk like a fucking sailor (go figure, I WAS one) around the fellas, but try to be more refined

around people I don't know.

The right to be repulsive and crude is something a lot of folks here hold dear.

[Forkboy]

114. Insanely stupid OP. Funny ass fucking thread.

[jus_the_facts]

124. I totally fuckin' agree.....

:rofl:


:hi:

[Forkboy]

128. Hey fucker!!!!

:loveya:

:hi:

[jus_the_facts]

133. What the FUCK is up...ya BASTID?!

:loveya: :pals:

[Forkboy]

144. Same shit, diffferent fucking day.

:)

[jus_the_facts]

155. Fuckin' A....

:D

[Binka]

248. Stop The Motherfucking Flirting With Another MotherFucker Fork

Said my piece.

[jus_the_facts]

249. Who the fuck are you to give a flyin' fuck through a flamin' hoola hoop who Fork flirts with....

:evilgrin:

[Arugula Latte]

116. Oh, My! As a lady, ah just might get tha vapahs if I heah that coarse language!

Where ah mah smellin' salts? *fans self*

[Zhade]

120. "Profanity is, by it's very nature, violent." In your opinion, and only in your opinion.

If you don't like swearing, then don't fucking swear.

[EFerrari]

169. Stuff of Language psychologist agrees with that, sort of.

Pinker says taboo words are particularly powerful for humans because they spark activity in the amygdala — a part of the brain involved in storing emotionally salient memories.


http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=15370150

I just saw this guy on BookTv and he pretty much rolled the audience with his profane patter.

lol

[mnhtnbb]

122. Watch what people do, not what they say. The real profanity

in the world today comes not from language, but from behavior.

Do I like hearing profanity all the time? No. I use it a lot, though, because it
expresses my frustration, my cynicism, my anger and sadness.

What has generated those feelings? Contempt. My government doesn't respect me.
People routinely lie. Can anyone be trusted anymore?

Cultured, civil society feels as though it is slipping away. Language is reflecting that.
When people start respecting others, language will improve.

[KamaAina]

131. WTF?

:wtf:

[TZ]

154. Just your local neighborhood jackass

Hey...I hope you get that job around here. I need you to protect me from the men that are gonna abuse poor widdle helpless me...

[madinmaryland]

159. Nice post, Snyder!

[TZ]

171. Thanks! You know that only the approval of men means anything!

Because I as a woman am incapable of defending myself!:rofl:

[ColbertWatcher]

135. I take it you wrote this a few years ago?

Or that you haven't watched TV in the last two years?

The "latest" thing in profanity is what Jimmy Kimmel has called "unnecessary censorship", better known as the liberal use of "the beep."

Using "the beep" allows HOLLYWOOD PRODUCERS (is that a dog whistle I hear?) to "swear" even in commercials.

BTW, I'm an old guy, but I'm not concerned about the slang of Those Damn Kids These Days™, I just want them off my lawn.

[Zhade]

153. More like a few decades ago.

NT!

[bobd0]

137. All I have to say on this subject is

What he said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_Nrp7cj_tM

[TexasObserver]

145. Profanity is the crutch of ignorant motherfuckers.

I don't recall who said that first, but wish it had been me.

[bobd0]

156. I was once told, "Profanity is the attempt of a weak mind to express itself forcefully." To which I

replied, "Fuck you."

[TexasObserver]

182. I can relate to that.

I don't overuse the word, but it has its moments.

[moriah]

148. You are right in that swearing has lost a lot of its impact.

Which is why I prefer to avoid it, to make the situations where I do use it be taken seriously by those around me. When I start cussing, it generally means you better get out of the way of this redhead.

I was upset at some stupidity and spoke with a coworker about it, and cussed. They said "Why don't you tell <insert name of boss> that?"

"I'd rather not cuss out my boss." "Oh, I cuss in front of him all the time...." "Okay, well, I'd like to save that for a special occasion."

------

As for my favorite curse, it's "GoddamnmotherfuckingSONofabitch!"

I like getting them all out at once.

[eauclaireliberal]

150. Carlin forgot "Semprini"

...something for Carlin fans that are also MPFC buffs

[Ikonoklast]

158. The Women Must Be Protected

[ColbertWatcher]

167. LOL! n/t

[AllieB]

161. Your attitude sucks.

Yes, the n* word and words that are violent toward gays and other minorities should not be tolerated. However, your attitude towards women is patriarchial and Victorian. My generation does not get offended by crude language, and if someone crosses the line, we usually tell them. Your mention of 'Good WIll Hunting' shows that your classist too. And yes, people in Boston say 'fuck' a lot. So fucking what?

[redqueen]

162. OMG TEH EVUL WURDS!11!!!!! MY POOR VIRGIN EARS!!!!11!

:eyes:

[Jed Dilligan]

163. Disrespect can be a two-edged sword

Not saying what you mean can be incredibly disrespectful!

[skygazer]

164. Fuck off

Ladies present. My aching ass. :eyes:

[justiceischeap]

166. Are you against the Vagina Monologues too?

I for one hated the word "cunt" until I learned that there was a certain power in taking the word back. Kinda like gay men took back the word queer and lesbians the word dyke. If I call myself a dyke, when someone nasty does it, it doesn't hurt.

[ColbertWatcher]

168. ALERT! ALERT! Mods, clean the thread! Clean the thread!

[jus_the_facts]

173. C'mon.. ..one more goddamn vote to the greatest page....

:kick:

[ColbertWatcher]

175. I wasn't going to, but this is getting good! Thank you for reminding me! Rec #5! n/t

[jus_the_facts]

177. Woofuckin'hoooo....

:toast:

[question everything]

181. Well said. Certainly on DU too many posts have nothing but profanity

Frankly, I think that such posts show paucity of vocabulary and perhaps even lack of coherent thought. If you follow one or two DUers you will notice that their posts don't say much of anything - with or without a profanity.

But then, how many people, do you think, are even familiar with George Bernard Shaw or with Pygmalion? (They may, however, with the movie "My Fair Lady.")

We, the ones who actually read books, are a dying breed.

:hi:

[ColbertWatcher]

183. So, now it's book-readin' people? Stop moving the goal posts. n/t

[Occulus]

206. The first novel I read was "Les Miserables"- unabridged- when I was 13

Fuck this thread and the mentality that spawned it

[pipi_k]

184. OK I have to admit

that I can be a bit of a potty mouth at times, but usually only during football season and usually only when my team is on the losing end.

:+

My favorite swear words are "shit" and "fart"

although "fart" is really sort of a cute word, as George Carlin pointed out, but anyway, yes, I can be a potty mouth, but even I have my standards and I would rather not hear "fuck" every other word in a movie.

And I don't swear in front of my mom, even though I just turned 56.

I do think there are some times...I don't know if I should call them "appropriate"...maybe "opportune"

but there are some times when a good swear word really hits the spot

and here's the double edged sword for me

if someone is going to use a swear word, just come out and USE it, for pete's sake.

Don't try to make it sound better with with blacked out letters or symbols or cutesy little euphemisms....that, BTW, only goes for generic swear words....I would never advocate calling someone a racial epithet or anything like that. But the general "fuck", "shit", "damn", "hell" (I absolutely PUKE when someone says "H - E - double hockey sticks"...actually I want to choke the fuckers...er, I mean rascals....ha ha)

But anyway, I guess my point is that even we potty mouths have our limits too

:7

[DeepModem Mom]

185. self-delete --

Later.

[Forkboy]

189. Courage?

:rofl:

Have you read the rest of the thread yet?

Good thing you agree with him, otherwise you'd just be a "stupid woman" who doesn't deserve his protection.

[DeepModem Mom]

I didn't read the rest of the thread, I admit. I responded to the OP because...

I, in my innocent early time at DU, posted a call for less profanity and was, of course, cursed both literally and figuratively. If the thread has taken a different turn, however, I'll self-delete my post because I don't have time right now to go through the thread.

[Forkboy]

194. No, no need to delete your post.

Your general point is fine. Just pointing out that there's much more to the poster who started this thread than that OP. He thinks women need protecting from hearing bad words, and if they themselves use bad words then he no longer feels he has to protect said women. His whole argument is Victorian in nature, and his attitude towards women as things that need protecting (but only when they agree with him) is the reason this thread has gone the way it has. He's a sexist as anyone, but can't see it.

[DeepModem Mom]

197. No, I appreciated your response. Later when I have more time...

I'll be interested in going through the thread and maybe post again.

[TZ]

192. This isn't about being polite anymore

Its about the sexist attitude that us womens must be protected from cursing because we are the weakest sex..Perhaps you missed the post where the OP told me to not come running to him for protection when I'm PHYSICALLY ABUSED since I have the audacity to NOT BE OFFENDED BY CURSING.

[IsItJustMe]

186. I use hell or damn for exclamation points. Beyond that, maybe a frinck now and then. I use to be

worse, but I have been cleaning it up over the last couple of years.

[d_b]

191. oh ya?

[Franzia]

225. lol!

:rofl:

[1776Forever]

193. Lack of role models has something to do with this I think - Immaturity - Stressful lives...

I could go on. I think there should be a boundary that everyone should be able to have. It seems people who use profane language are very selfish when it comes to disrespecting other peoples beliefs. I respect others space because I know how much it irritates me when someone else uses profane language near enough for me to hear it.

I also think it has to do with immaturity and lack of realizing what kind of impression this gives off to other people. When a person uses this kind of language they are giving up some of their own respectfulness and a lot of their impression by others is tarnished. Anyone can use offensive language, it takes a mature and intelligent person to get their point across without that type of crassness.

[wtmusic]

196. The first refuge of a scoundrel. nt

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

199. What does patriotism have to do with this?

To quote Ben Franklin: "What the fuck are you on about?"

[Lilith Velkor]

203. Patriotism is the last refuge.

I guess that makes sexism the first. :shrug:

[PeaceNikki]

202. There's a documentary you should watch. It's called "Fuck!"

http://www.fourletterfilm.com/

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0486585/

[CreekDog]

208. Thank you Bill Cosby

:rofl:

[TZ]

212. Why do you hate Bill Cosby, Creek Dog?

;)

BTW..have you caught the sequel now playing in GD?

[CreekDog]

213. i love Bill Cosby

:rofl:

for the record, i rarely swear. i even had trouble telling my colleague about Joe McCain calling 911.

[burythehatchet]

216. bill cosby sucks llama dong

[Fearless]

243. ??

[XRubicon]

217. Culus tibi purior salillo est,

"Your arse is purer than the salt-cellar; you probably only take a dump ten times a year."

Poopy words are as old as the human race.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_profanity

[gollygee]

219. I kind of see where you're going to some extent, but you're wrong for the most part.

As far as the sexism thing.

Here's the thing. Yes, some coarse language is inherently violent and/or sexist (the use of the word "fuck" in a negative way - assuming the person wouldn't want it - is a suggestion of rape, for instance), BUT to think that people shouldn't use it because women are too delicate is also sexist. The problem isn't that we can't handle it, because we are adults and we definitely can. It's probably just reflecting society, which is inherently violent.

And the line, "Now there are no ladies, just foul-mouthed women" is one of the more sexist things I've ever read. Most coarse language pales in comparison to that as far as sexism goes.

[BlooInBloo]

221. It's always funny when the least-educated try to tell the most-educated these sorts of things.

[Tyler Generation]

227. Yeah, I'm more offended by censorship and 1st ammendmant rights being

taken. Swear words are just words, get the fuck over it.

[BeachBaby]

232. At the risk of being nailed to the cross here.....

I get what you're saying.

I'm a woman, I'm 39 years old, and I learned very quickly that when a man goes out of his way to stop the crude talk, it's NOT because he thinks I can't handle it. It's NOT because I'm "lower" than him. It's NOT because he doesn't see me as being his equal. It's quite the opposite - his perception of me is that I am TOO GOOD for that; that I'm ABOVE that. He is placing me in a different category than his buddies - but NOT because he doesn't think I'm worthy of being in the same category. He sees himself and his buddies as being pigs, being crude, and being in a constant position of proving their masculinity; he sees me as someone who shouldn't have to be subjected to that - he's damned near placing me on a pedestal. Do I *want* to be placed on a pedestal? Uh, no; but I appreciate that he respects me that much to think of me in that way.

Yes - I said "respect". And apparently I'm in the minority in this thread; but I learned from the master. My grandfather.

My grandfather never looked down on women. Quite the opposite, actually. He was also the kind of man who held doors for women; opened car doors for women; placed his hand on the small of a woman's back as they walked into a room together. He didn't do those things because he felt that women couldn't take care of themselves - he did those things because he wanted to show his respect for them; because he thought highly of them and wanted to demonstrate that.

In a perfect world, we're all the same; but we're not. Men and women are different. We are built differently, we think differently, we react differently. It does not mean that one gender is more intelligent than the other; I don't believe that for one minute. The truth of the matter is that we are designed differently - instincts notwithstanding.

I am more than willing to admit that I would have a tough time defending myself against a man bigger than me; I am not so naive as to think that I can take him on and kick his ass. No, no, no. I got mugged a couple of years ago - I had a knife to my back. And the person who had the knife to my back was about twice my size and a helluva lot stronger than me. And younger. Luckily for me, a cop happened to be cruising by - if he didn't, I don't know if I'd be here today. My point? If I was a man, my mugger may not have even attempted to bother with me; but he knew that I was not a threat to him. In other words, it was obvious to him and to me that we're "different". And I'm willing to acknowledge that and accept that.

It scares me that men are being attacked for respecting women. I'm not sure why women are interpreting men's good intentions as being sexist and condescending. At work, if I walk into a conference room full of men, they all stand up for me - and sit down when I sit down. Is that sexist? Is that condescending? Is that disrespectful? Please.

So while I make no bones about confronting a man who thinks I'm not on the same intellectual page he's on, simply because of my gender, I will embrace the man who thinks so highly of me that he jumps hoops to prove it. Be careful what you wish for, girlfriends - take it from a woman who has truly dealt with a disrespectful man. Don't shoot a man in the foot for his good intentions.

[jhrobbins]

257. Nice

[escapinggreatly]

234. Well, shit. n/t

[Initech]

236. What the fuck you talking about?

:evilgrin:

[prayin4rain]

238. Yes females should

be treated like the delicate childlike flowers that they are... The females who are not delicate childlike flowers are filthy. All women should keep the chastity and continue to need to be treated like children.

Really I get that you have no idea how offensive this is... but it is really really offensive.

[Joe Fields]

239. I guess I'll weigh in here....Oh fuck, I forgot what the fuck I was going to say.

[Fearless]

242. Shit, piss, fuck, cunt, cocksucker, motherfucker, tits.

Words are a means to meaning, nothing more. No word should be feared. No word should be taboo. Meanings of those words are what we must take into consideration. If you see a certain word(s) as problematic in meaning in your head then don't use them, but you can't tell everyone that they shouldn't.

To quote The Simpsons: "Ohhh my freakin ears!"

[earth mom]

253. Well, I don't know about you, but I came to DU to vent about the criminals who stole the presidency

not once, but twice! DU is the one place in my world where I can really vent what I'm feeling without having to mind my p's and q's.

I grew up with a dad who hated profanity and I never ever swore around him and not only that but his attitude shaped me to the point that I do mind my p's and q's and make sure I don't cuss in my real life. And I cringe when I hear kids swearing out on the streets and have been tempted numerous times to tell them to watch their mouths.

So honestly, I'm on the fence on this one. I feel the need to vent and cuss my heart out on DU. But at the same time I can't stand how low societal standards have sunk. :shrug:

[obiwan]

256. Curse words are often used for their shock value...

... or when the user cannot express their point of view without them because they haven't really thought the idea through.

[Zhade]

260. My question is, when did shorthand become unacceptable just because the other person didn't like it?

NT!

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

259. Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown.

[Shanti Mama]

261. here goes...

I, too, find the constant 'fucks' and 'assholes' and 'pieces of shit' etc to be irritating. We condemn McCain for having a bad temper and calling his wife a cunt but around here anything goes.

My just 13 year old daughter is really into swearing. I tell her it's not acceptable in our house, unless you've just nearly killed yourself or are so frustrated that all other words escape your mind. But she thinks it's cool. It fosters/reflects an unkind, unloving world view, in my humble opinion, and I don't like it. I use fuck at least once a day but I don't call people names.

Why is it that everyone is jumping down the OP's throat over expressing an opinion? We have FREEDOM OF SPEECH. So let him speak his mind and then try to disagree without tearing him apart. Just think how differently this entire thread could have gone if the first couple of posts (and I'm not looking to see who posted) had been of respectful disagreement.