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During this morning's church service, our pastor said Kennedy plagiarized his "Ask not ..." speech.

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bulloney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 02:39 PM
Original message
During this morning's church service, our pastor said Kennedy plagiarized his "Ask not ..." speech.
Is that true? I tried Snopes, Google and other resources and have not seen it attributed to anyone but JFK.

This pastor has on several occasions in the short time he's been with our parish shown he's one of these "abortion is the only issue" pastors and seems to have a Republican bent in his sermons.

If I can nail him on this, I'll confront him and maybe it'll shut him up on his politics for a while.

If you know if this quote is JFK's or originally from someone else, let me know, please.
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onethatcares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. where do you go to church?
just wondering which rock this guy crawled out from under. (not you, the pastor)
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bigendian Donating Member (956 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. Not the speech.
I believe the "ask not..." part was Cicero.

After a 1000 years or so it is still a good line.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
3. Does it matter?
Edited on Sun Oct-19-08 02:43 PM by Warpy
It sounds like this guy needs a wakeup call about preachers who are risking the tax man by preaching politics.

In any case, consider finding another congregation, one that doesn't have a wingnut preacher.

The only thing that gets through to those guys is a sock to the wallet.
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bulloney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. It matters to me. I don't like getting bullshitted, especially
when you're dangerously mixing religion and politics. I think this guy is trying to discredit a Democratic president in a subtle way. It struck me strange that, after all of these years, I've never heard where Kennedy took this quote from someone else without attibuting it. The priest actually did use the word "plagiarized."

I think it's time the clergy stop getting a free pass on imposing their politics on their parishioners.
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
4. i beleive the "ask not" part came from former pres.. who stole it from OW Holmes
but the actual words "ask not" were kennedy's. so asking the people to dp for their country was a thought that was expressed before.
big f'ing deal.
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LiberalHeart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
5. From wiki.answers
Edited on Sun Oct-19-08 02:48 PM by LiberalHeart
Khalil Gibran published the ... saying in his 1925 work titled "The New Frontier", Thirty-six years before President Kennedy's 1961 Inaugural Address.

"Are you a politician asking what your country can do for you or a zealous one asking what you can do for your country? If you are the first, then you are a parasite; if the second, then you are an oasis in a desert." Khalil Gibran
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. So Cicero to Gibran. Kennedy had Sorenson as one of his speech writers - one of the tops.
Tell the pastor that if he says 'Peace On our earthy Earth' - he is plagarizing.

His is a disparaging remark against Kennedy. It would be interesting to know the context. With or without - I would say it's disparaging.
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wundermaus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. my all time favorite poet...
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ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
6. Tell your pastor to go to Hell. n/t
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
7. Better yet
ask your pastor to explain to you from a Biblical standpoint just exactly how his political activism from the pulpit advances the Biblical role and mission of the church.

I'm betting that whatever explanation he offers ultimately can be reduced to an attempt to create an ideal society (according to his interpretation of Biblical standards) - and most likely one in which folks are subject to his authority as a pastor. It is about being right and it is about seeking power.

It doesn't matter if you prove him wrong about the JFK speech because it is just a tree in a very large forest.

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cureautismnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
8. Derivation of the quote.
Edited on Sun Oct-19-08 02:52 PM by dubyadubya3
This link provides good information ---> http://www.jfklibrary.org/Historical+Resources/Archives...

"To summarize, the idea had certainly been around for some time, but the sentiment and the particular phrasing in the Inaugural Address were President Kennedy's."
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. The National Archives also confirms this.
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
9. Politico-churhes must be taxed!
Tired of it, just tired of the lies and abuse of good people.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
12. Why waste your time and money with these snake oil salesmen?
I don't get it?

Don
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notalemming Donating Member (154 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
13. Does he ever repeat the words of Jesus without attribution?
??
(If he ever says "the lord's prayer" without doing so, he's a plagiarist too)
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johnnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
14. Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr. 1884
"... it is now the moment when...we pause...to recall what our country has done for each of us, and to ask ourselves what we can do for our country in return."
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WVRICK13 Donating Member (930 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
15. Fuck The Right Wing Asshole
Find a new church!
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
18. What is your pastor talking about Kennedy speeches during his sermon for?
Report him to the IRS.
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bulloney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. He was talking about devoting time for your faith. Then he brought up the Kennedy speech.
And then, as a sidenote he said something like, "By the way, did you know that Kennedy plagiarized that line?"
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. "By the way, do you know you're preaching in a tax-exempt facility?"
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Inspired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
19. Why in the world do you belong to a church like this?
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CitizenPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
21. is he fmailiar with the phrase, "thou shall not bear false witness"? nt
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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
22. You're obviously not a teacher/professor/lawyer, etc...
...because you otherwise would have nicely (maybe) asked the PASTOR to provide evidence of his allegation rather than make yourself do his work for him. :-)

People who make these kinds of statements have the burden of proof.
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Tennessee Gal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
23. Why sit through that?
There are many other churches. I would have gotten up and walked out the moment he said that.
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
24. Ecclesiastes 1:9
The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
25. No-one has ever said that Presidents had to write their own speeches. This guy needs to STHUASAP.
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greenbriar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
27. IRS needs to be called
I love my church and my pastor but if they do anything this year I am calling the IRS
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