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Is racism based more on hate, or fear?

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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 05:58 AM
Original message
Is racism based more on hate, or fear?
Or both? I feel that it is deeply ingrained in our primitive instincts, fear of the other tribe, the marauders, the outsiders, perhaps its even a product of the reptilian portion of our brains, there for a reason, like the fear of being eaten by lions.

I am amazed that seemingly intelligent white, American people in the glorious, shiny year of 2008 are actually afraid of a black man in the oval office, afraid on some automatic level. I watched old white folks in an old folk's home openly stating that they 'just can't vote for a black president', my own crazy old aunt said the exact same thing.

What's wrong with us liberals? We have absolutely no problem whatsoever voting for Barack Obama, his appearance or his ancestry never enters our minds when we consider him as the president, the only thing we see when we look at the debate stage is an intelligent young man politely holding up a mean old millionaire crank.

Do white racists hate black people, or are they just terrified of them and are afraid to admit it? Do hate and fear go hand in hand with racism? Can racism be cured? Why do some people let it rule their lives while others don't?

I saw a union official speaking to his crowd saying that there are many people who say they just can't vote for a black president and he said that this attitude is nothing but 'absolute bullshit', and I agree.

I sometimes try to see things in a philosophical way, but to me, racists are just assholes.
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 06:00 AM
Response to Original message
1. i think it's hatred inspired by fear
but however you slice it, it does not make sense and cannot be defended. racism sucks.
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lamp_shade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 06:00 AM
Response to Original message
2. I'd say 80% hate, 20% fear.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 06:02 AM
Response to Original message
3. "Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering." -- Master Yoda. n/t
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Scriptor Ignotus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #3
45. wise in the force you are - nt
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bean fidhleir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #3
54. Exactly - and it's circular, too. (nt)
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JustAnotherGen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 06:03 AM
Response to Original message
4. I think
Edited on Wed Oct-15-08 06:04 AM by JustAnotherGen
Racism is based on hate and dehumanizing perspectives of other human beings.

Bigotry is based on fear.


Many of these folks who are fearful of a black man being the POTUS, and/or won't vote for a Black Man - have NO powers. Seriously. They operate from fear and ignorance. They operate based on what the 'Racists' in power tell them.


Now Joe Scarborough? He's a racist. He has the power, the format to get 'his message' out - he's operating on hate. And he has the 'power' to influence on a national scale.


Now Liberal v. Conservative? I think Liberals in general . . . we tend to be humanists. We see the value in every human being in our country, the world (Just my opinion - not a cultural anthropologist :rofl: ). Whereas Conservatives tend to only see themselves as human beings - and those just like them.

Hate to brush the broad strokes - but have to get ready for work! ;-)
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 06:03 AM
Response to Original message
5. I agree with you: it's primarily fear-based... the 'hate' is just a manifestation of that fear
and does originate from the days when humans ran in packs.

The thing is, it's easily overridden with just a smidgin of intellect and enlightenment.

I think the fact that people express concern about voting for a person with a different skin color than their own speaks volumes about the status of our collective psyche.

In short, we still run in packs, after tens of thousands of years, it would seem. :(
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ThePowerofWill Donating Member (462 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
66. One problem with that.
Before we over populated new groups of people were most likely seen as welcome, warily so maybe but welcome. Why? Because new people brought new information, new techniques, new genes beneficial to a closed off group.

People walling themselves off unto themselves stems more from modern agricultural based society. You had to protect your land, you crops, your livestock, your food stocks.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #66
68. different set of items to protect, same protection
it's been going on far longer than organized agriculture, IMO.
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ThePowerofWill Donating Member (462 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #68
70. Not much to protect hunter gatherer wise.
Theres much more to be gained from interaction with others than lost. This changes as you settle down and actually acquire things. In hunter gatherer society theres not much to be lost as everything you own can be carried on your back, and quickly replaced. Settled society has much more to lose, and more to fear since if you lose your home, grinding mill, and crops you no longer may have the ability to just pick up and move being acclimatized to settled life.
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 06:03 AM
Response to Original message
6. There is so much more of this shit going on today it is
disgusting. Racism against Obama is just the most visible part of the iceberg. It is still very pervasive in the US (and elsewhere - we certainly are not alone, nor even the worst) even though it has been politely covered up over the last 40 years or so.

mark
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 06:04 AM
Response to Original message
7. i don't think most of them are intelligent
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 06:06 AM
Response to Original message
8. Control And Power
There are those who feel the only way they can feel important is to demean or make others inferior. It's playing off a difference...be it color or sex or ethnicity. Hate can be a powerful tool for a politician and the more buttons of hate and intolerance you can push, the more control and power you can accumulate...or at least if your a repugnican.

A lot of our real racism isn't based on skin color but on class. Since the lowest on the ladder have been minorities, they get the scorn because it's always assumed that the poor only want a free ride from the rich. It's a game the GOOP has mastered for years...so much so it has people voting against their own best interests out of fear and hatred.

Cheers...
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sickinohio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 06:08 AM
Response to Original message
9. I think it is both.
I remember in the late 60's when I was growing up (in a small town in Ohio), there was only one black person on my bus going to school. She was in my class, and she sat in front of me. I remember how much I liked the girl, and how much I liked talking to her on the bus. She would give me candy on the bus. I would always take the candy and tell her thanks, but then when I would get to school, I would throw it away because for some reason I was afraid to eat the candy!! That has always been a vivid memory for me, and one that I truly regret.

We had a high school class reunion this past summer, and she was there. I wanted so much to tell her what I use to do with that candy and to apologize to her for that, even though she didn't know that I threw the candy away!! I'm so glad that my thoughts have changed, and that my children don't feel the way that I did, but I still feel bad to this day for feeling that way!! :cry:
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Kind of Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 07:05 AM
Response to Reply #9
26. "...I'm so glad that my thoughts have changed, and that my children don't feel the way that I did...
Oh, please don't feel bad anymore because if you knew better you would have done better. I worked in the lab at a hospital in the D.C. area where I grew up and naively thought big cities were full of a mixture of all kinds of people. Another tech start working who just moved from Nebraska and she and I hit it off immediately. I can say she is one of the funniest people I've ever met and we had so many good laughs. Well, one day after a laughing session, she says to me, "You know, I could have gone through life never ever meeting or knowing a Black person and I'm so glad I moved." At the time I took this to mean that I was a guinea pig and I was so offended and just couldn't relate to her anymore. Years later, I moved to San Diego where there are few Blacks and realized, my God, where are the variety and numbers of Black people?

But more importantly, I had now switched places with my former co-worker and saw exactly what she meant. I now think that racism is largely based in ignorance and that is what my friend was trying to get away from. Instead of appreciating her move forward, my ignorance was not understanding that many, many people do not grow up with a plethora of diversity. I've felt bad for years for cutting off our friendship, but now I know better. I think we're all here to teach each other, even in the briefest contacts. Your contact with that girl enabled you to teach your kids differently and I applaud you for that because you are teaching them something better. :applause: :yourock: :patriot: So please don't feel bad anymore, I think that was a life lesson and sometimes lessons are hard but you've passed with flying colors!
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sickinohio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. Oh, thanks!!
I've always liked this saying, and think it is sooo true "you learn what you live". Guess it's the lessons that you take from what you have learned, and how you change yourself because of it, is what is most important.

I told my kids my story many times (I'm sure they probably got sick of the story), but I just wanted them to know. Now, they are better for that, and my grandchildren are better for it too. Wow - now that I think about it, I did a very good job raising my children!!

Thank you again!! :hug:
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Kind of Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. You're welcome! And IMHOP, I think you've hit THE answer for the OP....
"you learn what you live."
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #9
37. As another poster said, you know better now.

I did something in the '60's I'm ashamed of now. It took courage for you to post that. :hug:




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sickinohio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. Thank you for the hug
I'm always in need of a hug

:hug: right back at you
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 06:09 AM
Response to Original message
10. I think it's caused mostly by socialization
and the agencies of socialization have done their best to perpetuate racism, starting with families, M$Greedia and religious institutions.
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #10
41. No, it is innate
Everywhere on earth people dislike people not perceived to be in the group. Hutu and Tutsi? Koreans and Japanese? The caste system?

Notwithstanding the research done on racism (from a scientific perspective, not the navel-gazing done in anthropology and the ilk) racism's universality is good evidence of it being innate.
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LatteLibertine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #41
49. I'd agree
Edited on Wed Oct-15-08 10:56 AM by LatteLibertine
it's one of many tribal tendencies from our tribal roots. As others have said that doesn't mean it can't be overcome or worked against by a person of moderate intelligence with the desire to do so. Any student of history and man knows bigotry, prejudice and racism did not first appear in trailer parks in the United States. Also the dynamic is not limited to a particular race or race itself.

It would be easier to work against bigotry, prejudice and racism if people would approach dealing with them with a calm practical mind rather than regurgitating the same old tripe.

Democrats and Republicans vilify and dehumanize one another in much the same way. I'm surprised few see this. Someone else mentioned, "Scapegoating encouraged by the powers that be." I'd agree and wouldn't limit it to the overall societal status quo. The powers that be with in group may encourage these things to keep focus off their poor performance to shift it elsewhere.

So I'd say some of tendencies to be for your perceived group and against those perceived as outsiders is something that has been ingrained in the lower mind of man by evolution and our early history.

People in general could certainly learn to have more compassion and empathy.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #41
51. Then why do infants, toddlers and young children
have no problems playing with one another.
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. Because they have not developed that part of their brain/mind yet
There are many behaviors that are expressed later in life than childhood. Sexuality is only the most obvious example. Abstract thought is another (you can't teach calculus to a six year old).

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LatteLibertine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #51
60. They
Edited on Wed Oct-15-08 12:31 PM by LatteLibertine
have no real concrete concept of self or other yet. The mind of a young child is incomplete in many ways. While I'm discussing the very young I might add this is a crucial time for them to be taught empathy and conscience. Many of our sociopaths that aren't simply genetically flawed come from having a lack of these.

Folks that believe bias towards your own perceived group and xenophobia towards the perceived outsider are exclusive to low income white people in the United State are poor students of both history and man.

The issue is complex and there is no one single answer. Is some bias taught? Absolutely, and the history of our evolution from a tribal state can not be dismissed. It definitely played a role in the fashioning of our lower/early mind. Again, I use the history of all people and cultures across the globe as support for my belief. This behavior consistently manifests regardless of land or time. BTW citing theses things is not meant to justify the behavior. In this modern world it should be worked against and I believe it can be overcome. It was likely an early survival mechanism.

You can see some of these tendencies play out in organized sports today. Look at the way some attach to "their team" and how they often have at least one "hated" rival.

I believe we can be better than our history. I believe we can evolve. People need to be encouraged to resist things that lead them to dehumanize the other. They should be encouraged to have empathy for the other or the "outsider" and attempt to see their shared common humanity. Bigotry, prejudice and racism are human problems not exclusive to any one group. Until they are tackled as such, you'll see little progress.

I want to see these things improve and they never will without open honest dialog. Blame shifting needs to be abandoned and open civil discourse needs to be practiced. If you truly dislike these things then work against people practicing them within your group against those that are outside. It shouldn't suddenly become acceptable when they're "on your side".
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 06:10 AM
Response to Original message
11. Fear generates hate
They fear that someone may be equal to or better and it's easier to hate than to accept such possibilities. It also goes hand in hand with ignorance-often willful.
Way too many people are unwilling to accept or learn anything new because it may shake up their view of how things are and they would have to rethink their worldview. People that are secure in who and what they are don't fear anything different.

I joke about it but for years I've said that what this country needs is 300 million hits of good acid.
It certainly changed my view of the world, just as it did for Dr. Albert Hofmann.
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peacebird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 06:14 AM
Response to Original message
12. I think it's based in feelings of insecurity and self-doubt
the need to put someone else down so you can feel somehow better than them....
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AndyA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 06:15 AM
Response to Original message
13. I always thought both were based on ignorance.
Educated people do not normally have the strong hatred or fear of those who don't look the same because they understand why everyone isn't alike.

It seems very simple, but I really think racism has its roots in ignorance.
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SmileyRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 06:22 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Me too - although there are educated people who are racists
Edited on Wed Oct-15-08 06:22 AM by SmileyRose
IMHO it has more to do with upbringing and life experience. I grew up in the upper midwest, small suburb, very blue collar, lower end economically, almost all white. Racism was ingrained but no one thought they were racists. Then I moved to Atlanta, got away of hearing that garbage every day and had a whole wonderful experience with people of all types. I still have my prejudices that I fight daily but any racism that was deposited via my upbringing is long gone decades ago.

So yes, it has to do with education, but not necessarily college education, more like experience education. -- though I do think college CAN have the effect of widening one's life experience.
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reprehensor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Definitely a major factor.
Ignorance is the bedrock for the hate and fear.
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GrannyK Donating Member (226 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #13
48. Hate originates from fear
Fear originates from ignorance. We fear what we don't understand.
When we fear something we feel the need to annihilate, or kill it.
The easiest way to overcome fear and hate is to understand it. Having Obama in the White House will make astounding leaps in overcoming our racism in this country. Of course, it will not happen overnight, but giant strides will occur because those who have not experienced a relationship with another race will have the opportunity to discover deep seated bias that has no foundation. :-)
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 06:23 AM
Response to Original message
16. In my opinion, racism is a primitive form of territorial ism based on a desire
to eliminate certain groups from access to basic needs, i.e. food, water, money, jobs, land, political power and sexual opportunities. Among racists, it's a calculated way to eliminate competition.

The KKK was founded in the late 19 Century in the U.S. by low income Southern white men who were fearful that black men were going to compete for jobs and possibly their women. The root of their activities was their insecurity.
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Locrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 06:31 AM
Response to Original message
17. sex
No. Really.... our sexuality one of if not **the* PRIME DIRECTIVE programming of our brain. I think the fear is a sexuality type of competition in our reptilian brains. Thats why it is so wrapped up in white women/black man crap. Think about how racism **always** gets into the hidden sexuality. Just the same with homosexuality.

People who are able to rise above this can overcome it with logic, compassion, love etc. They control these "demons" of the reptilian brain.

Those who cant - it can manifest itself in anger --> hate --> etc, etc



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are two types of people in this world: those who believe in demons and those who don't.

They say demons are just phantoms of our reptilian brain. The core "fears" and "anxieties" that we don't understand manifesting themselves into "demons" or some other phenomena.

The ones who can control their demons do so with: Science. Logic. Love. Compassion. Understanding. Intelligence.

The ones who cannot have missed some crucial development in their life. Since as an adult the brain becomes less flexible, there are a lot of people who will simply never outgrow this.

These people will always side with their fears and anxieties produced by their reptilian brain. They will ally with power, authority, "strength" - not of character or true strength but "might" (ie make war). They seek to dominate as to be "in control" when in reality they have none.

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izzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 06:31 AM
Response to Original message
18. I think that it is the stranger thing. Two people in a group turn on
the third that comes into the group. Fear must be the base. That seems to be a human thing to not want the out sider to move in. There seems to be the same feeling even when people look just the same if that extra person moves into the group.
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Clovis Sangrail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 06:37 AM
Response to Original message
19. based on? neither
Edited on Wed Oct-15-08 06:38 AM by Clovis Sangrail
I think racism, like homophobia, nationalism, and many other isms are really based in wanting to be a member of the group.
It spins off in all sorts of nasty directions but I think the root is really a very primitive drive to belong.

Fear and hatred definitely come into it... but as a result of or way to justify actions taken to define that membership.
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Believing Is Art Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 06:52 AM
Response to Original message
20. In most cases, a conscious hatred that turns into fear.
I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that both are controlled by the amygdala, but true fear is a much less conscious beast than hate. For the most part, the fear of another race comes from social conditioning. Self-admitted racists embraced this hatred, and it turned into a real fear. Yet many people are lesser racists and not even aware of it. Exposure to racist speech from parents, teachers, or some other mentor, heavily reported crimes with black suspects, etc., can cause someone to develop a fear and not be aware of it. They would never be aware of their racism unless they had to consider their personal safety, and even then they may not realize their prejudice.

To suggest racism come first from fear implies that there has been an evolutionary advantage to racism for a very long time. Otherwise it is something that has been conditioned, and that comes from hatred.
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lelgt60 Donating Member (417 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 06:55 AM
Response to Original message
21. Are there blind racists?
Seriously! Anybody know any? Heard of any? I haven't.

Now, imagine everyone was blind. On what basis would people decide to hate another group? On the way they smelled? Vegetarian vs. Carnivore?

The key is this: If you didn't like the way someone smelled, would you also assume they were stupid, criminal, sub-human, etc. I think there are some that would. They would keep a list of those "smelly people" who also happened to commit crimes as proof smelly people were bad. These are the "racists".

So why is it kinda human nature for SOME people to react that way? I'm going to have to assign it to genetics for the core group, who then convince the stupid group by claiming the "smelly people" are the cause of all their trouble.
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 06:58 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. Yes, they hate the smell of anyone who can see.
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Kind of Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #21
29. Yes, there is one blind racist I know of....Clinton Bixby
Have you seen Dave Chappelle's Black-White Supremacist. It's too funny, about a blind black man raised thinking he's white. Hope you enjoy it.
http://www.realvideosite.com/Comedy_102_Dave-Chapelle--...
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 06:57 AM
Response to Original message
22. Neither now days. Its trained into children by parents and other adults
I have never met a bigot that got it from anywhere other than his or her parents.
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #22
57. I agree with that. It's learned.
And in the beginning, I would bet that it didn't even come from fear, but from cognizance of difference. Which could be fear, but I'd argue isn't.


And I'll go so far as to say that the same apathetic state that keeps people from examining the lies they were taught is the same as that which keeps them from their political views.



I just had a discussion with my cousin. He's some bigwig attorney in Los Angeles. Golfs every day. So you know his company, pretty much. Being an attorney, he can't, or doesn't just dismiss argument. He seems open minded. But what he does do is run away. We've got an ongoing argument that he refuses to acknowledge. I could go on and on. That's what the forum is for. All of the examples we see. It gets old. I've got my last espresso of the morning waiting to be pulled. And am anxiously waiting to see if my car sells on ebay, and a great debate later. Argh, I'm blabbling. Sorry.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #22
71. Absolutely (n/t)
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bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 07:02 AM
Response to Original message
24. Mostly fear, taught by one generation of scumbags to another.
In the words of the immortal South Pacific song:

You've got to be taught
To hate and fear,
You've got to be taught
From year to year,
It's got to be drummed
In your dear little ear
You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught to be afraid
Of people whose eyes are oddly made,
And people whose skin is a diff'rent shade,
You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught before it's too late,
Before you are six or seven or eight,
To hate all the people your relatives hate,
You've got to be carefully taught!
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eilen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 07:05 AM
Response to Original message
25. Fear of the unknown
I think all anger and hatred stem from fear.
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NC_Nurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 07:09 AM
Response to Original message
27. Fear, mixed with hate and a generous helping of ignorance.
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Brewman_Jax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
31. Probably both
the same thing in metro Atlanta. Four cities in the north metro area (mostly white) have incorporated in order to control their own money and stop paying for "those people" on the south end of the area (mostly black). Pure pandering. They conveniently overlook the fact that "those people" pay taxes, too. Add to that the fact that the large counties have had black county commissioners and black mayors of Atlanta over the past few years. They didn't get really agitated until they saw that white people weren't running for/not winning the top political elected positions and they weren't getting preferential treatment anymore. IMO, it's racism behind the rationale for incorporating, but they're still in the county and still have to deal with the county government.
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
32. A mix of the two, in my opinion.
Hate is generally raised on fear.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
33. both + economics.
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 07:56 AM
Response to Original message
34. All hatred has some form of fear at its root
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #34
59. I'd say, threat not fear. Fear is a response to a threat.
Hate / fear may be another way to day "fight / flight".
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. Yes - but if I feel threatened there is a certain fear behind it
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 07:57 AM
Response to Original message
35. People still need racism as a device for bonding
these days. Our Lord of the Flies, overly competitive society encourages this. Our warmongering jingoistic government promotes this as an acceptable outlet.

Nothing bonds people who have tenuous ties to each other better than a common enemy. The enemy becomes a receptacle for all of life's frustrations and disappointments. Just like regular garbage, people have a need to fill this receptacle regularly, to discharge their constant anxiety.

Bonding helps identify those you can trust, those who think like you do, those who don't stick out. People pretend to be impressed by mavericks, but they really don't respect them.

Liberals also bond over common enemies. But with liberals there is less confusion about who's a real enemy and who's just different in some superficial way. By definition liberals tend to be flexible thinkers. Flexible thinkers are more self-directed and confident about their choices.
They don't need to create enemies where there are none.

After Bushco you'd think people wouldn't care if Obama was green with purple spots.

Yes it's certainly a downer to see how much people will still subscribe to racist views. We have along way to go but if Obama gets in and does well, it will have a huge positive effect. Future generations will see racism as a vestige of their parents' misguided past. They will see beyond it and not be limited by it.

OK guys, it's time for the surge...let's GOTV roll. We will see by the analysis afterward just how big a factor racism was in the election and we'll be able to use that info to continue fighting against it.

Good topic, Philosorapter.
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
36. Fear and ignorance - and fear is far more dangerous especially when linked with ignorance.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 08:19 AM
Response to Original message
39. HATE is based on fear. nt
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
40. I don't think it is either
I think most Conservatives believe they are superior. They believe that with all their heart. They just can't stand the thought of an "inferior" person being in charge of things..
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
42. It's hate based on fear based on IGNORANCE.
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blondie58 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
43. I think that it is mostly from fear- out if ignorance.

I see that in a friend of mine, who was raised in MS- she is a racist due to her upbringing in the deep south
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
44. Ignorance!!
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #44
50. Thats the first word that came to my mind too
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polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #50
58. Me too...
n/t
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Aragorn Donating Member (784 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #44
63. ignorance which fails to overcome primitive fear
Unconscious fear of "others" can be easily overcome with a modicum of intelligence.....
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flygal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-08 05:21 AM
Response to Reply #44
78. Yep, I was going to say - or third choice - Ignorance!!
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
46. It's a whole bunch of things:
1. A gut-level fear of anyone who is "different."

2. A poor self-image, so poor that the only boast the person can make is, "Well, at least I'm not (insert name of group the person hates)." If a black man becomes president, then what is Mr. Poor Self Image's excuse for not achieving?

Seattle firefighter Earl Emerson also writes mystery novels on the side, and in one of his books, his narrator notes that the objections to affirmative action among his co-workers, whether it's jobs for racial minorities or jobs for women, are always framed in terms of "They wouldn't be able to handle the job." He adds that the most vehement opponents of affirmative action, the men who say, for example, that "women aren't physically capable of the job," tend to be the ones who are least physically fit themselves ("older, overweight smokers" is Emerson's phrase).

3. Scapegoating encouraged by the powers that be. If you've read Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States, you'll remember his account of what happened to the first Africans brought to the colonies. That is, they were treated exactly like the white indentured servants and freed after seven years. However, when the masters noticed that the black and white servants were conspiring against them, they changed the status of the Africans to permanent, hereditary slavery. This guaranteed that the white indentured servants would feel superior and the Africans would resent them, so that if either group was up to something, the other would rat them out.

You can see scapegoating in the modern right-wing media. If a white working class family is having trouble making ends meet, it's not the fault of their employer, who isn't paying them enough to live on. No, it's that they're paying too many taxes, and that the taxes are going to "lazy black welfare mothers, who keep poppin' out babies so they can get extra money each month and support their drug dealer boyfriends." Never mind that this is an inaccurate picture of the welfare system or that more white people are on welfare than black people. Look at any newspaper website comments, and you'll see that one of the objections to Obama is that he'll tax the "honest white working folks" into bankruptcy to pamper this mythical horde of black welfare cheats.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
47. I believe fear is first and this feeling of fear engenders a feeling of helplessness
which turns to resentment to the object causing this fear, and resentment can devolve to hatred. I also believe it's deeply ingrained in our natural instinct to be wary of people that aren't on the surface like us, this being a survival mechanism.

Ultimately I believe faith is the answer to overcoming this instinctive fear, and not necessarily a religious faith so much as the confidence in knowing there is only one race, the human one.
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NoGOPZone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
53. Hate and fear often closely related nt
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
55. Hate is based on fear.
So I guess the answer is yes.
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
56. fear
which causes hate.
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entanglement Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
62. Many people (democrats included) don't 'get' universal anti-racism
They don't have the ability to extrapolate anti-racist teachings applied to one group (say Blacks) and apply it to another (e.g. Mexicans) or yet another (say Vietnamese). They don't recognize the universality of humankind. Nationalist reasons for hating others are still considered perfectly acceptable and encouraged by supposed 'liberals'. The difference is that conservatives hate by default; liberals find justifications for their hate or attempt to give it a veneer of intellectual respectability.

Seen dispassionately, there are few principled anti-racists (democrats included). For most, any 'anti-racism' is based solely on the fear of consequences. So many more people use 'r*g-head' or 'ch*nk' rather than say 'k*ke' because they can likely get away with it in the former case.

So it's not just a few crazy old people, those are just the vocal ones. Working people (worldwide) should throw off the ethno-racialist-nationalist blinders and realize their collective identity and common interests. There is no other genuine solution.


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2speak Donating Member (382 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
64. Could be love also. As in you don't want your daughter or son
to marry a person of a different race because you think it would be bad for them. Like being attacked by a bear.
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ThePowerofWill Donating Member (462 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
65. Hate and fear go hand in hand.
You can not separate them. When you fear something you then begin to hate it. Both are interlocking pieces of the same puzzle.
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HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
67. I think it's based on hatred of one's self
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
69. some are afraid of retribution
Edited on Wed Oct-15-08 04:32 PM by noiretblu
that's one of the reasons the KKK, one of america's first terrorist gangs, came into existence. i don't think racism has anything to do with fear...i think it has everything to do with POWER. white people benefited from codifying racism into law and practice. what we are seeing now is fear about losing some that perceived power.
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LatteLibertine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #69
72. Ok
Edited on Wed Oct-15-08 05:00 PM by LatteLibertine
Consider this scenario. We are discussing groups X and Y. You're a member of Y.

Here's what you know. Most murders occur with in the two respective groups or that is not across group lines. When you do examine murders that occur across group lines you discover group X murders your group at a near 3:1 ratio. This is consistent from 1976-2005. You also know group X is a very small group compared to Y yet they account for nearly half of all murders annually.

Should a member of group Y vilify everyone in X? No. Should they blame all of X for some bad members in its ranks? No.

Would a member of Y be ignorant for being wary of members of X? Possibly.

According to the United States Department of Justice the scenario I outlined above is true. I compiled the data by adding together numbers from the "stranger" and "acquaintance" homicide tables. The "stranger" table is particularly ugly.

Source:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/ovrelracet...

Assault, robbery and rape were ignored. Deliberate malicious deprivation of life is a fairly hateful act.
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #72
75. what do those statistics have to do with white supremacy
Edited on Wed Oct-15-08 06:22 PM by noiretblu
slavery and jim crow? nothing. what do those statistics have to do with the KKK, skinheads, and other racist terrorist groups? nothing. what do those statistics have to do with the affirmative action that benefited white americans for 400+ years? nothing.

Quotes from those ohso fearful white folks at a Palin rally today:
"I'm afraid if he wins, the black will take over. He's not a Christian! This is a Christian nation! What is our country gonna end up like?"

"When you got a Negro running for president, you need a first stringer. He's definitely a second stringer." (Note: It's unclear whether he says "Negro" or "Nigger"... Thoughts?)
Update: Some comments below claim he said "Nigrah"go away now...

"Just the whole, Muslim thing, and everything, and everybody's still kinda - a lot of people have forgotten about 9/11, but... I dunno, it's just kinda... a little unnerving."

"Obama and his wife, I'm concerned that they could be anti-white. That he might hide that."

"I don't like the fact that he thinks us white people are trash... because we're not!"
how do your statistics explain this?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/15/10043/208/540/...
run along now...
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
73. Depends on if you believe it is an evolutionary response, at its core, or a social construct.
In any event, there is no excuse for tolerating it among ourselves or others in this day and age.
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honkydonkey Donating Member (232 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
74. Fear....
It's fear of the unknown around here. There was not one black person in our entire school system so the only black people they ever saw were on tv shows. And for some reason many of the people around here have no desire to travel. Probably because they don't want to leave the safety of their tiny bubble of ignorance.
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Bubbha Jo Donating Member (846 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-08 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
76. It's based on insecurity. Those happy to be human aren't racist....
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-08 05:15 AM
Response to Original message
77. hate IS fear . . . in its worst manifestation . . . n/t
.
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