Our taxes should pay everyone's health care and not just gov.. employees - We deseve same benefits

[2Design]

I have no desire to pay for government employee health care anymore until the rest of us get our health care paid for from our taxes. Enough of this separate system for some where their taxes are not paid into the whole pot either.

It is our money and it should be given back to all of us in benefits and not just people who have been on the payroll for one thing or another. Enough of this benefits and retirement money for life. It is our money and we deserve the same thing.

[grannylib]

1. AMEN!

That is all.

[napi21]

2. To be fair, all the gov't employees I know have to pay at least

a part of their HC the same as the rest of us do.

[2Design]

3. does congress, the president, the military with their own

plans and country club vacation spots of beach, pools, discounted camping, etc and their money goes into a separate retirement account. It is our money.

Take that little bit out then in our paychecks as they do now.

[Heather MC]

12. Military Personnel has to pay for the pools, country club and camping

the rate of return on the investment is not that good even in an up market
the Healthcare is great if you live near a good Hospital
Other wise it's hit or miss.

My yougest son wasn't properly diagnosis with being in the Autism spectrum until fortunately we get a DR that spoke english. When I told the nurse he was talking at 18 months, she yelled at me and said I needed to talk to him more.

When I mentioned it to his former docter that same day, she didn't understand a word is said
I went home and fought with him to speak for 6 months. During that time his former DR. Retired
HIS new dr. recommended a program right away, it took 9 months after that to get him in the program but he is 3 now and doing much better!

But I believe if we have 1 billion to send to Georgia
10 million a month for Irag
and 700 billion for Wall Street
We can create a healthcare program that benefits all. However I think Obama is making mistake, he has to have out Healthcare system run as not for Profit, like the police and Fire department

it's insane that a 2 day hospital stay can cost $25,000 not even including the $6,000 surgeon's fee
IT's gotten out hand. If we can't sell our body parts for profit, Doctors and hospital shouldn't be allowed to profit either. Elective surgery type surgeons can still charge what they want, if you want new boobs, lips and ass, then fine
but things that deal with medical issues life or death the prices should be regulated
And Obama needs to get the insurance agenies out of the diagnosising business

IMO

[2Design]

28. camping for active military around the country is way cheaper

than for others, and the health centers on bases - so the lifers get a lot of benefits - they get their teeth fixed and other optional surgeries done that the rest of us can't even get approved if we had insurance. I have not had insurance since 1997 and there are millions out there like me. I have not had a regular job during that time. I work in a field where 60% of the employees are part timers throughout the country

[Heather MC]

34. I believe we deserve healthcare, I believe it's a right

When I was growing up we had a "give it a week" Policy.

If we had something that didn't go away in week then we went to the DR.
I went to the dentist one time when I was 16 by some miracle I never had a cavity
and the dentist was impressed my teeth were in good shape. but I was in bad need of braces
I didn't get those until I was 23 and got a job with a decent dental plan.

Now my teeth move from time to time, but the Military dental will not cover orthodontal work for dependants over 23, so I use dental floss to keep my gap together a new retainer cost 350.00

I know it's rough my bother is self employed and he has a syattic Nerve pain (I can't spell that word at all)
Right now all he has is prayer that it will get better with pain killers and time. Meanwhile he has not slept in 4 days.

I think the real problem is how much contractors are getting paid over seas on DOD contracts
A friend of mines baby daddy is makeing almost 200K doing something in Iraq he would only get paid 80K to do in the states, I think that's wrong, That contract has to be huge, and he has been over there for 3 years, everytime he says he will come home, they give him more money

[Cid_B]

36. I know right.. like.. totally..

... and all they had to do was take a significantly higher chance of death for 20 odd years. What a crock! :: sarcasm off::

Seriously, if you are complaining about the fact that military gets discounted camping rates everything else must be damn peachy in your life as well.

I got 10% off at Oil-Express the other day. I could find the number if youd like to complain.

[2Design]

77. don't twist my words - go highjack another thread - please leave n/t

[lligrd]

52. So What You Really Want Is A Decent Job

and Single Payer Health Care. Why didn't you just say so? No need to pick on civil servants.

[2Design]

76. don't twist my words - my taxes pay their health care and I want

my taxes to pay my health care too - that is fair and should not depend on where I work

[lligrd]

81. You Are Wrong, Your Taxes Pay For Services

Someone has to perform the services and they have to be compensated for them. The health care is simply part of the compensation package (which in my case is negotiated by a union). As a matter of fact, in the pre-union days many civil servants did not get health care. Maybe what you need is to join a union. It was one of the catalysts for forming a union.

[2Design]

87. now I see why you don't want me and others to have health care

you have yours and tuff for us - my taxes pay for government employees to have a job, benefits, sick days, etc. and I think my taxes should pay for EVERYONE to have health care.

[lligrd]

93. What BS - I Have Always Advocated Single Payer

I just don't put others down for what they have. And you still don't seem to understand that your taxes aren't really paying for my health care. Have you even attempted to understand what others have been trying to explain to you?

[magdalena]

99. I think you may have the wrong idea about government jobs.

My husband and I are both employed by our state government. Sure we have nice benefits, but our wages are shit compared to the same positions in the private sector. Of course, most of the benefits we do have are thanks to our union.

[old mark]

100. YES!!! I recently retired from PA state civil service.

The politicians love to talk about government employees when they are looking for a scapegoat, or someone to take the burden of public anger
away from fellow politicians.
Most government jobs offer decent benefits, but lousy pay and working conditions that would not be tolerated in the private sector.
The only reason for the "great benefits" is that we have very active unions, and the large majority of civil service workers belong to and support their unions.
I was an AFSCME Steward for several years, and believe me, NOTHING we have was a gift from government. Everything was fought for. Ed Rendell's team at its first contract negotiation put forth the worst and most mean spirited offer we have ever had, and we went on from there.

I will add that PA retirees got a Cost Of Living Adjustment to our annuity recently.
It was the first since 1973.

mark

[magdalena]

101. Your efforts are certainly appreciated.

And you are correct about the lousy working conditions. I work in a high-risk (extremely dangerous) environment and am subject to "forced" overtime whenever it is needed, up to 4 days per week. This usually means that 5 minutes before my shift is over I am told that I am required to stay another 8 hours. I go home to eat/sleep for a couple hours and come back for what is inevitably another 16 hour shift. The department I work for is so underfunded that they can not afford to hire an adequate amount of staff to keep this forced OT from happening. AFSCME has been fighting this tooth and nail, but there isn't much they can do as of now. Many government jobs are not the "cushy" positions some people imagine them to be. I hope the OP will take this into consideration.

[old mark]

105. I had a similar situation - forced OT, for another 8 hours most times.

Dangerous conditions, lousy pay and get treated like shit.

No one was lining up to take these "great jobs" - The myths about civil service were just political BS to keep us from gaining public support and gaining some measure of power from the politicians.

mark

[Cid_B]

96. "part-time".... hmmmm...

... sounds like a poor career choice.

[Hannah Bell]

39. it is insane, & the fact that costs are SO high should make one think -

imo, there's some kind of systemic fraud involved. two days in the hospital should not cost a year's wages - especially when low-paid techs & housekeeping people are doing a lot of the work higher-paid people used to do.

[lligrd]

29. Fine, But You Will Also Have To Accept The Same Pay Scale

and as a governmental employee, I can tell you there is a lot more to be made in the private sector. Public employees basically trade good pay and other private sector perks for job stability, health care and a retirement plan (none of which is as good as it is made out to be by the public.) Most public employees are forbidden to take any gifts. We even pay for our own coffee, water and Holiday parties.

[2Design]

30. But that is not the point - the point is we all need health insurance - it is paid for by our taxes

pays young people well and others spend so much on the other things needed - they would have been better off in a government job

There are millions of us without insurance or low insurance - I want my taxes to cover me like they do you

[lligrd]

31. What I Am Saying Is That You Will Have To Be Willing To Pay More Taxes

to cover everyone basically giving yourself a pay cut just like government employees take. I happen to agree with Single Payer and would love to have it implemented. I basically feel stuck in my job because of the health insurance (and yes, I do pay a portion of it).

[2Design]

62. just shift the money from bombs to health care - higher percentage

of taxes for everyone works

[bobbolink]

91. NOT True!!

The MONEY is being soaked up by the corporations... it's time to realize that, and stop letting the RW get us to follow their talking points!

We already pay more per capita for healthcare than any other nation!

GET THE CORPORATIONS OUT OF HEALTH CARE, AND COSTS GO DOWN!

[lligrd]

97. We Do Pay More But Not Through Taxes

The countries that have single payer pay higher taxes. By the way, I am all for single payer and don't mind paying more taxes for it. Of course, I also think it should be a progressive tax.

[bobbolink]

102. I would suggest that the taxes are more even than we are lead to believe!

I think we really need to start getting this out wider, because I think we've, once again, been mislead.

When ALL our taxes are combined, and if we then include the hidden taxes (like the fact that at least $2,000 of the cost of every new car is to cover the health care of workers!), I think that we actually pay HIGHer taxes than the countries we compare ourselves to. I'm very serious about that.

THEN, when you factor in the point that THEY get something back for their taxes.. free education, and health care, and we don't, then we look pretty stoopid.

I seriously think we've been looking at this too narrowly.

And I congratulate you on believing in the necessity of progressive taxes, and remembering to state that! :applause:

So many, including right here at DU, dont' understand what regressive taxes are doing to "the least of these" right here in this country.

As a matter of fact, there is an issue on our ballot this year that is a very good cause, but I will vote against it, even though it is brought by a Democrat, because it calls for more sales taxes............ a very regressive tax that hurts those of us on the bottom. I wish there was room on the ballot for comments, because I would tell that representative to re-submit the issue, but with income tax instead, and I would happily vote for it.

The ignorance abounds.

[lligrd]

103. Very True. Great Post. nt

[WindRiverMan]

35. There is an AMEN!

There is a law on the books stating that we are deserving of a 30% raise, because thatis how much we are paid LESS than private industry. Clinton signed it but refused to enact it. Bush refused as well. Maybe Obama will do better by us.

[MercutioATC]

4. As a federal employee, yes, that's true.

I think the government (as my employer) pays roughly 60% of the premiums. I pay the rest.

[napi21]

7. And I doubt YOU get a gov't paid country club membership, and

all the other perks the other poster mentioned.

[2Design]

8. do your research - not all but a number of government paid people

have access to the things I mentioned in my first reply to you

[CreekDog]

46. provide evidence...even Senators only get Federal Employee Health Benefits

before you talk out your nether regions again, perhaps you'd like to take a look at the benefits provided:

http://www.opm.gov/insure/HEALTH/index.asp

[MercutioATC]

9. If I do, somebody's been holding out on me.

I do have pretty iron-clad job security and I can retire earlier than most people, but I'm not getting country club memberships...

[lligrd]

32. Me Too. We Can't Even Accept A Free Lunch

And our retirement benefits are not that great these days. Better than Social Security but nothing like they use to be. You won't see government employees retiring as young a they used to in the future and although I am glad to have health insurance my plan is certainly nothing to brag over.

[MercutioATC]

40. Hell, I'm not even allowed to buy stock in a lot of companies...

I'm air traffic control, so I get early retirement, but I'm the exception to the rule. A LOT of government employees work a long time at substandard wages with inferior benefits. Government service usually has the benefit of a degree of job security, but none of us are getting rich.

[Usrename]

27. As a federal employee, your salary is paid by taxpayers.

The taxpayers foot the bill for your healthcare. You could opt out, but the way you describe it, the taxpayers do pay for your healtcare.

[MercutioATC]

42. Yes, because the government is my EMPLOYER...

...it's the same situation as any other employer-covered health insurance.

[Usrename]

43. Not really.

I'm not sure why you think all other employees are supported by taxpayers. They are not.

[MercutioATC]

51. I provide a service for my employer...

...which is the FAA and, ultimately, the taxpayer.

In return, my employer pays me.


It's as simple as that.

[CreekDog]

47. would you like Federal Employees to provide service for free?

it is a job.

i would like my air traffic controllers to get health insurance, wouldn't you?

and if we didn't provide them health insurance, how many would we lose to other employers?

[2Design]

70. why are you crapping on this thread - go away

I want health insurance paid by my taxes or I do not want to pay for others health insurance with my taxes

[CreekDog]

82. your OP started this

i want everyone covered too, but the point that if everyone isn't covered i don't want anyone covered by taxpayer money is not progressive.

[2Design]

88. if you took away congress critters and others health care or

threaten to - we would have a better chance of getting it for everyone because then congress would have more incentive to vote for it if they no longer had it and add to that if they were paid minimum wage like they want so many others to have to live on. You just don't get it - they don't listen unless you hit their pocket which is why we are bailing out banks and wall street instead of giving people health care.

We are bombing nations and innocent people to keep haliburton and the gas companies going. all that money could easily get all of us health care

[CreekDog]

94. then whose health care do you want to threaten in order to get it for all?

Congress only or congress and other government employees?

considering this will require legislation, how do you expect that to pass CONGRESS?

if you threaten to take away the health care of government workers, why is this fair to them --they can't control it.

i just don't see why you are taking out your frustration on government workers. you are treating them as if they are the enemy.

i get your points, that's why i'm arguing with them.

[ppenelope]

15. I think the govt employees get a pretty good deal

and we, the "little people" should get that same deal at least

[wordpix]

60. agree that everyone should pay into the same system! Why do richies like Bush get gov

health insurance and we the "little people" have none unless via our employers, for which most of us pay quite a bit?

[CreekDog]

45. they must pay 28% of the premium and pay their own eye and dental 100%

FYI.

[wordpix]

59. and Canadians do, too, payinghigh taxes on everything they buy, as well as

quarterly premiums depending on income.

[Spritz57]

5. The untold story is however

that if one is in PERS for ten years (the retirement plan for government employees) they get health insurance for life (post retirement). And the coverage is good.

[Hangingon]

18. I don't know what PERS is, but I don't get free med. ins. for life.

I still pay nearly 50% of the coverage. Where do I go for that free country club benefit?

[Spritz57]

24. All federal employees and state employees participate in PERS

PERS is the retirement plan which one pays into. If you are in the plan for ten years, you get lifetime health insurance at retirement. I was in PERS (for 5 years) and still receive their quarterly statements. Please do check in on this. :)

[MercutioATC]

41. Actually, PERS is for state and local employees. FERS is federal.

...and yes, we DO get to keep the benefits after retirement, but they're not that great...and we DO pay for them.

[Spritz57]

73. Thanks for the clarification (honestly)

I stand corrected in part. I was in PERS and my spouse is in PERS. Her benefits are better than average though as had been pointed there is a network but that alone has not been a problem where I live. I actually worked for a Federal agency but as the additional information suggests, was placed in the state system. Sincere thanks to everyone for the additional information and appropriate corrections. IMHO the benefits under PERS for this part of the country were very good compared to other jobs I've had.

[WindRiverMan]

37. That is not true....

FERS is the plan you are referring to, and it only applies to employees employed after 1982. After five years, we are allowed to keep our government insurance until Medicare kicks in, then it becomes primary, you can keep your secondary if you want, but why would you?. We are still required to pay our 40% of premiums.


As for the quality, Federal BC/BS SUCKS! It is basically an HMO. You need preferred providers, and you still pay 30% for medical equipment, supplies, lab work, etc. In fact, I actually had to transfer to Wyoming for awhile from Alaska because I broke some bones in my spine and I need a fusion. There are no preferred providers in Alaska for spine surgery. There were no hardship exclusions, under represented area exceptions, etc. So don't tell me how great Federal BC/BS is, because I had to move 2000 miles to get a surgery that I need.

[CreekDog]

48. it's well known and it's called FERS or CSRS

and if you want some, go get a Federal job. lots of people worked hard to get those jobs.

[dflprincess]

6. Perhaps it's not what the plan the average government employee has -

but what our elected representatives in Congress have. Now, there's a healthcare plan!

[MercutioATC]

10. They have the same health insurance plan we do.

FEHBP - Federal Employees Health Benefits Program

[2Design]

11. a lot of people have no health care for numerous reasons

1. their job doesn't offer it
2. their employer only hires part time workers
3. Many employers employ par time professionals to avoid benefits
4. Most employers have downsized people who are older or in higher health cost for the employer
5. The just in time worker became the norm from about the 1990's on for workers over 40
6. Most retail is that way (WalMart)
7. States that are right to work (the red states) pay the least and fight unions to keep wages low

[shraby]

13. How about the congress critter's retirement

after serving a few years? Isn't it at half pay? What's equal about that fer cris' sakes?

[Hangingon]

19. Please check Snopes

http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/pensions.asp

[shraby]

85. The last paragraph says it all...

As of 1998 the average annuity for retired members of Congress was $50,616 for those who retired under CSRS and $46,908 for those who retired under FERS. Those figures are quite good (about 2-3 times better than the pension collected by the average worker), but quite the highway robbery the e-mails make them out to be.

[wordpix]

61. yes and even if they leave in disgrace they get this pension, I believe

[bluethruandthru]

14. We must start treating health care...not health insurance - as a right.

Just as we have the right to a free public education, we must also have the right to healthcare.

[Alameda]

20. I agree, but they are doing the best they can to get rid of the free

public education....we need to remember that too.

[bluethruandthru]

21. You're right. The repukes...especially the wealthy ones

want to privatize everything. I've even heard the argument that fire and police protection should be paid for individually. So, if your house is burning down and you haven't paid for "fire protection insurance"..your house can just burn to the ground! SHeesh! They believe that everything is only for those who can pay for it.

[2Design]

26. they are working on getting rid of public education and trying to

break the union - that is what all this voucher stuff is about and the reason they starve the schools while feeding the military budget a gazillion dollars

[sad sally]

92. thank you, thank you.

Insurance benefits are not what Americans need...health benefits, health care...socialized medicine.

If we could cut the insurance companies out of the picture, provide the education to the medical professionals who in turn would provide good low cost care paid for by a single payer, provide safe food, water and air for citizens, find cures for the horrible diseases that plague us, and learn to live more healthy lives - what a wonderful world it would be!

[lovuian]

16. Agreed put the Civil Service in with ALL of us

that is BS thats why Nationalized Health is the way to go here

[Diane R]

17. Absolutely!! I'm tired of my gov't employee friends talking about their great benefits.

[alarimer]

23. They get great benefits but the pay fucking sucks.

So stick your notion that all government employees somehow have a better deal than you do. They don't. Most people in my field (biology) HAVE to work for the government on some level. They are the only ones doing the kind of work we do. The rest are work for "consulting firms" which means largely selling out, telling the company what they want to hear and not the truth. I HATE business and corporations and so will NEVER work for any in any shape or form.

[2Design]

25. the pay for wal mart workers and target and kmart and retailers

sucks more and they are having to cover a lot more and insurance too - these are the arguments the repukes use

[lligrd]

38. Actually, A Lot Of Them Do Get Free Health Care From The

government. It has been one of the major complaints about WalMart.

[CreekDog]

50. how do you propose the government keep employees like air traffic controllers and disease experts?

if they take away their current health and retirement benefits?

don't want the government to do those things do you?

[alarimer]

57. Exactly.

There are some jobs only the government can do. Can you imagine what air traffic control would be like if it were privatized?

[2Design]

69. no one said to take it away - this is a plan for everyone - it is

my taxes, I want them to go for my health care and not just government employees

you must be on the wrong board because most liberals want something that is good for the whole and not just the individual - only the hate monger rw don't want everyone to have health care and live in a limited world

[PVnRT]

106. Most liberals wouldn't argue that we should take away health benefits from gov't employees

...and whine and bitch about how they're freeloading off of our tax money.

Kind of goes both ways, you know.

[The River]

22. If the Doctors (Barber, Shaman, Herbalist)

in early societies had insisted on having
an HMO, malpractice insurance and signed responsibility
statements we wouldn't have survived as a species.
The medical system needs to be returned to the commons
for the common good.

[lligrd]

33. So Quit Your Bitchin And Get A Government Job

Plenty of them and they are not that hard to get. Be prepared to take a hefty pay cut though.

[MissB]

58. Yep. I pay nothing for medical, dental or vision coverage.

But my pay is more than $20k less per year than it would be if I were in the private sector.

Dh went to the private sector, I stayed in the public sector. My retirement benefit aren't that great, but the health care benefits save us tons of out of pocket expenses each year.

[CreekDog]

44. so government employees shouldn't get health insurance for their labor until everyone gets it?

that idea might be a bit unpopular, because you aren't saying that employees at Chevron should do without health insurance until everyone else gets it.

[2Design]

63. you miss the point - everyone deserves health care

you are taking the repuke talking points

[CreekDog]

84. if that was the point, you had a convoluted way of making it

:eyes:

and supporting health care for government employees is not a republican talking point, get real.

[CreekDog]

49. yes the solution to you getting healthcare is to take away others

you are a taxpayer, you don't own federal employees.

if you don't want the Social Security Administration, the air traffic controllers at FAA, the weather forecasters at NOAA, the park rangers at Grand Canyon, the researchers at NIH, then by all means, implement your suggestion and the tradeoff will be that you will get more disease, more plane crashes, fewer hurrican warnings, nobody to protect your national parks and lots of other things your post didn't intend.

but then i don't think you thought your idea through very well.

[2Design]

67. I have no desire to take health care away from someone

I am sorry you do not see how it is better if everyone has health care - I am just asking that my taxes pay for my health care too. You must not have understood my original post and did not think it through - I thought my idea through

[shadowknows69]

53. I have no desire to pay for the government's elective wars until we all have health care

[Vinca]

54. There needs to be government-sponsored, universal, single payer

healthcare. It would take a massive burden off business as well as providing humane assistance to those of us who haven't got $12,000 a year for health insurance. (Last quote 3 years ago.)

[pnutbutr]

55. I like my private coverage

It is expensive but is the only thing I can provide for my family right now that is top of the line. The health of my family is very important to me and I wouldn't give up my current health coverage without a fight, even for cheaper government provided coverage. Primarily because I know the government plan will not provide the same level of coverage.

[2Design]

64. you can still have your private coverage - it will be available for

those who want to buy it - I am sure insurance companies will love to sell you a plan
For me a government plan would provide me with coverage I now do not have and millions do not have

[pnutbutr]

68. That's why

I like Obama's plan. It will allow me to keep my private coverage but still provide it to those who do not have it. Complete nationalization of healthcare is what scares me.

[2Design]

72. repukes have scared people - people in other countries

do well by not worrying about losing their house or other things because of health cost - I am sure private companies will be more than willing to sell front of the line insurance for a premium or build bigger and better hospitals for the rich

[pnutbutr]

74. I'm not rich

by any stretch of the imagination. I pay out the nose for the health coverage for my family. It is the only thing I do not skimp on. We are covered for anything and everything that could possibly come up. There is no way I would voluntarily give up this coverage for a generic government offering. I have dealt with government insurance, my parents being military had it and for the most part it was good but there are serious limitations to coverage that I don't want to have to deal with again.

[2Design]

75. can you agree that it is better than no insurance - millions have no insurance

can you get that? Can you understand that?

[pnutbutr]

78. I get it

I thought what I have been saying was pretty clear. I love the idea of public healthcare for people who need it. Personally, I perfer my private coverage and find Obama's plan to be an excellent one that offers both public and private. Are there reading comprehension issues here or something?

[Greyhound]

95. Is there something that is confusing you about the difference between health care

delivery and who pays?

You've been on several different threads touting the same line over and over and each time someone points out that a single payer system is not government health care, has nothing to do with the care provided nor where you get your care, you disappear only to pop up in another thread to start it all over again.

Also once again, the Obama plan that you brought up in other threads does not exist and to the extent that it allows health care denial companies to continue to cherry pick and further degrade delivery systems overall, it has little chance of ever happening.

[closeupready]

56. It certainly isn't right that someone like Ronald Reagan got such fancy health insurance when

he was the same one who deplored "socialism" and socialized medicine - he should have paid for his medical care out of his own pocket.

[lunatica]

65. I agree with you n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

66. Good enough for them but not for us. What bullshit! And enough of Congress voting themselves pay

increases too, while voting against minimum wage and unemployment extension!

[2Design]

71. exactly n/t

[True_Blue_KY_Dem]

79. Trust me, healthcare for Federal Government employee's...........

isn't all it's cracked up to be!

I've been a Postal employee for 14 years now and it isn't what it seems to be! The dental plan sucks outloud. The Health plan doesn't cover pre-existing conditions.

As such, I was injured on the job, in June of 1999 and DOL/OWCP sucks as well! I lost a lot of money because of my injury, the forms are complicated and quite frankly, they are too nit-picky on the diagnostic codes. If you're single, it pays 66 2/3% of your base salary. Married, it pays 75% of your base salary.

The schedule award of permanent conditions is outdated. I lost over 60% use of my arm and they only gave me 11%!

You'd be better off to sue the individual agency.........

[2Design]

89. how does it measure up against NO health care - I expect it is better

than NO health care

[raccoon]

80. Ramen! nt

[earth mom]

83. I agree with your premise that we ALL deserve health care, but pinning the problem

on federal employees like they are getting something for nothing is total bullshit. It's a job like anywhere else and the employees DO pay taxes and do pay for health care, co-pays and all.

Your argument should be based on the fact that health care should be a basic fundamental human right. Not because somebody else got it and you didn't.

The argument you pose sounds childish and it promotes an us against them mentality. After all, we are ALL in this together.

[2Design]

86. it was turned into us versus them - that was not the point

the point was my taxes pay their salaries, their benefits, etc. So if my taxes can pay for their benefits, then my taxes should pay for mine. When you and others turn it into a us versus them, you miss the point. Just saying everyone should have health care turns into we want entitlements - showing our taxes ALREADY pay for health care says our taxes should pay for everyone and not just some.

Many corporations and companies have gotten rid of health care which is why so many are uninsured. I believe putting it into the framework of taxes already pay for health care for some takes it out of the realm of asking for entitlements unless you consider what they have are entitlements -

[quaker bill]

90. Here is a plan

Let's just start taking away the benefits from anyone who has them, then sooner or later we will all be equal and on our own. I believe this is the McCain plan.

[lligrd]

98. Nope, McCain's Plan Actually Improves Medical Care

for those that can afford it. Imagine how cheap a kidney will go for when nobody has insurance anymore and you actually have to pay full price for it and the surgery. Prices for the rich will go down (plus they won't have that pesky waiting list to get through) and the rest of us can just die off and decrease the surplus population.

[pimpbot]

104. No it is not "YOUR MONEY"

Do you think you own a government employee or something? They make a salary and that salary is paid from the tax revenue of the government. Its not your money anymore. Same thing with the benefits. About the only big plus of a govt job these days is the job security.

When I worked in the private sector, my employer paid 100% of my health insurance premium. I also had a better salary. When I became a gov't employee, I had to start paying for health insurance and took a salary hit. However I love my job and what I do, so I don't mind the tradeoffs. I also get reimbursed for my masters program and other training, but I would have had those benefits in the private sector as well.

Your post makes it sound like us govies have it made and all we do is pal around the cigar room and laugh at the private sector peons. In reality its the other way around!