On 2/17, these 7 rethugs joined DEMS to vote for a debate on Iraq - what happened today???

[RiverStone]

Minus Gordon Smith, WTF happened to the other 6?

They said they wanted a debate back on Feb 17, but now refuse to register approval for setting a timeline to end this immoral and reckless war. I don't get it? Where were they today in joining 47 DEMS that voted for a timeline?

I thought they have all expressed varying degrees of opposition to the war? Hypocrites or moral cowards? Pick one.

Coleman (R-MN)
Collins (R-ME)
Hagel (R-NE)* Particularly anti-war Hagel?
Snowe (R-ME)
Specter (R-PA)
Warner (R-VA)

Smith (R-OR) VOTED YEA! :applause:

[Oceansaway]

1. .

with all the illegal spying going on, i suspect the WH has the goods on alot of 'em...jmo

[chelsea0011]

2. Snowe and Collins...so not deserving of the moderate moniker

the media always uses for them. I wonder what their % voting record is with Bush. Anyone point me to where this info might be?

[RB TexLa]

3. Wanting to allow a vote or debate doesn't mean you not against what is being debated

[RiverStone]

5. Not that I follow rethugs, but are not Hagel, Snowe, Collins...

All on the record as opposing the war - I know Hagel (has been) big time?

[RB TexLa]

11. I haven't seen the wording of what they voted on

But for most of the Dems and GOP that aren't on complete absolute positions on it, there could be positions they don't agree with in the resolution. Timeframe and countless other issues could play a part in it.

[Bitwit1234]

4. What we need here is a 50 state plan....

Get Howard Dean...to go to the states that these people are serving and demand the press interview him. Tell the people there that this is the type of people they elected to serve them. That they approve of the continued carnage of our military in Iraq.

[TwilightGardener]

6. There's a big difference between not wanting to escalate the war

and wanting to force a well-publicized withdrawal. Hell, even I don't think it's a good idea--how exactly would something like that even take place? Where would they withdraw from? Who would withdraw--combat? Medics? Support? In what order? Who would remain? How would they be protected? When withdrawal happens, it will have to be the commanders who figure out a way and a timetable to do it. Today was a safe, no-fail way for the Dems to register the fact that they want the troops home--take it for what it was!

[Jacobin]

8. There are entire military courses on retreat

I find it interesting that you don't think its possible to get your ass kicked in a war and have to retreat and admit defeat

Of course its possible. In VietNam we left by having people hanging off of helicopters taking off from roof tops.

[TwilightGardener]

12. I have no problem with withdrawal--that's the goal. But in 4 months?

Broadcast to the world? How would this be enforced, exactly, if there are also concerns about increased violence/bloodshed, border enforcement, Iraqi training and support, rebuilding, preventing terrorist camps, etc.? What we need is a realistic PLAN for leaving Iraq as stable and as safely as possible using the troops we have there now, AND THEN figure out the logistics of how to get our troops home, and how many at a time, and on what timetable. Enforcing a withdrawal timetable is not a real strategy. What we need is a strategy. No, I don't care either if you call it retreat or defeat or whatever--I'm not hung up on the terminology.

[Jacobin]

13. Its to begin in four months

Hey, if the generals can't figure out how to fucking retreat when they've lost a war, then they can just scurry out to the tune "Oklahoma". I'm tired of this "oh we can't leave because (pick one)shit. The latest is "Oh we can't leave because oh, shit we can't find the door, and oh what about the cooks, they'll be left behind"

BULLSHIT

[TwilightGardener]

14. I understand that it would BEGIN in 4 months. But again, without having read the

resolution, I'll reiterate that leaving is a GOAL, not an actual STRATEGY in terms of what we need to do to PREPARE ourselves and the Iraqis for that goal. If the res spells all that out in a feasible and responsible way, then I'll stand corrected. I truly believe that Reid knew this res would fail (in fact COUNTED on it) and just wanted to get this to a vote--a smart thing, showed that the Dems were mostly unified. Even if passed, it would have been vetoed, of course.

Think ahead--what would happen if there was a sudden uptick in soldier/civilian deaths while we were pulling out of a particular area--Dems would be blamed, of course. Any kind of bad news would be attached to this resolution from its beginning onward. Then we would lose the WH in '08--and then it's on to Iran! I think the goal should be to continue what the Senate is doing--keep attacking the problem from different angles, work through everything, try to build consensus, and pressure the Pres to change course. An immediate solution is not to be had here--took us 4 years to get where we are, will probably still be there 4 years from now, in some form. The wheels are turning slowly, but they'll turn if the Dems keep the heat on. And I have no problem with the fact that we have had our asses handed to us--we asked for it.

[RiverStone]

9. One must begin somewhere to end it - we have waited long enough!

Today was a safe, no-fail way for the Dems to register the fact that they want the troops home--take it for what it was!

Sorry wienerdoggie, but we already know the DEMS want the troops home. That's ancient water under the bridge. I'm tired of being fucking safe and dancing around any legislation with meaning or binding measure on this damn war.

After 4 reckless and unchecked years, I'm in no more mood for SAFE!

Guess I'll just go shout out my opposition (again) at the big peace rally/march in downtown Portland this Sunday - I'll just keep shouting and blogging and calling my Reps and hoping....



peace:)

[Jacobin]

7. Its all planned theatre to quell the concerns of

the masses of people in the United States who like to pretend that the people they vote for and send to washington somehow 'represent them' and will 'do what they were elected to do'....(snicker snicker)

all a big play.

PNAC will continue.

[Captain_Nemo]

10. I'm calling

I'm calling Snowe and Collins tomorrow. And, Specter.

[newyawker99]

15. Hi Captain_Nemo!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast: