Who exactly are these "fuckers" and "greedy bastards" that you think this bill is benefiting?

[LeftyFingerPop]

The CEO's? Last I heard, there was a provision in the bill that limited CEO compensation. Also, any previous offenses can certainly be acted upon in due course.

The speculators? Is the money from the bill going directly into their pockets? Regulations can be established that will place limits on harmful speculative activity. Also, any previous offenses can be acted upon.

The employees of the banks making $50k per year? Is the money going right into their pockets?

Who exactly is personally benefiting from this bill that angers you enough to wish them dead by encouraging them to jump from windows?

[OwnedByFerrets]

1. If you read it carefully, you will find that there REALLY is no

oversight. The only oversight allowed is from presidential appointees...ie, the foxes that caused this fucking mess in the first place. So, the bottom line is, we have NO idea where or who the money is going to. Also, there are loopholes in the CEO compensation limits that you could drive the Queen Mary through.

[LeftyFingerPop]

2. Then there needs to be either revisions or additional legislation...

It is a dynamic, not a static issue. This bill is not the be all and end all. Everyone's hair is on fire for no reason.

With any luck at all, Obama will be in the White House in a few months, and everything can be looked at closer, and changed if decided.

[Hydra]

4. Patriot act, FISA, IWR, Military Commissions act?

Still waiting on "Revisions" for those.

[LeftyFingerPop]

8. Wait for the new administration.

If nothing is done on these then, then we are all fucked anyway, and yes, I know Obama voted for FISA.

[ContinentalOp]

12. The money will have already been spent by then. -nt-

[PsN2Wind]

11. Too bad that by that time

The 700 billion will be long gone.

[LeftyFingerPop]

14. Then I guess Obama, who voted for the bill, will have...

his work cut out for him.

[JuniperLea]

23. He had no other political option...

This is not the time to embroil himself into emotional issues. He did what he had to do.

This whole thing is going to crash and burn about nine months into his administration. The bailout only delays the inevitable.

[LeftyFingerPop]

28. I agree he had no option...

But once he is in, everything changes.

[JuniperLea]

36. Oh hell yeah...

He'll have his feet held to the fire then, no question. Whether he can change anything is another question altogether.

[OwnedByFerrets]

49. The problem with your scenerio is that

700 billion can be stolen before that happens.

[bean fidhleir]

3. I think Dennis has a good analysis of the giveaway's MANY shortcomings

so his opinion might be a good place to start.

But let me see if I can give you a leg up:

Wealthy people invested in concocted "securities" that aren't now worth the paper they're printed on. These are not poor people, these are wealthy people, the kind that have lots and lots of money that they don't want to let lie around. They don't want to lose their investments, so now we all, who are damned lucky if we can afford a few mutual fund shares, get to buy that worthless paper. Plus, according to Dennis, give away "hundreds" of other douceurs worth God knows how many millions more. Without any oversight or opportunity to stop the gravy train before it crushes us all.

[LeftyFingerPop]

6. The bill showed that the Government is willing to take action to restore...

confidence to the markets. That was probably the ONLY useful purpose of the bill. Now that this has been done, the real work can start, especially with a new administration.

[MrCoffee]

9. Confidence? The Dow closed down 157 points after the bill was signed.

That argument (which seemed like the only reasonable argument in favor of the bill) has failed.

[LeftyFingerPop]

10. The rumor is bought, and the news is sold typically.

Also, horrible jobs report today.

[MrCoffee]

13. How about that?

$700,000,000,000.00 in credit liquidity wasn't enough to overcome a bad jobs report...and you wonder why some of us might be a little upset about this particular boondoggle?


That's a lot of zeros, isn't it?

[LeftyFingerPop]

16. You as well as I know that the passage of this bill...

was the PERFECT opportunity for contrarian trading.

[MrCoffee]

21. I thought we were talking about building market confidence

I agree that putting a little confidence back into the credit market is a good thing. This bill doesn't do that, because anyone with eyes can see that the underlying problem hasn't been adressed at all.

The Fed's been pumping billions into the credit market since last summer when the subprime crisis hit. You know as well as I know that the passage of this bill won't do a thing to unfreeze the credit market, since the bill doesn't do a thing to relieve the pressure on the underlying assets.

But that couldn't possibly matter anymore.

[LeftyFingerPop]

31. Well, theoretically, it does relieve pressure, since...

The onus is now on the Government, rather than the distressed banks, to recoup what they can from them.

Under additional future regulation, the banks will survive, enabling them to go back to the business of banking and lending.

edit: I fucking mangled this post. :rofl:

[MrCoffee]

41. How about these quotes for confidence?

"At best, we can hope that it stems some of the more intense risk from the credit crisis. It prevents things from spiraling out of hand here," said JPMorgan Chase economist Michael Feroli.

"There's really no theme except the theme of survival," said John Spinello, bond strategist at Jefferies & Co., referring to the constricted trading in the credit markets Friday.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081003/ap_on_bi_ge/credit_markets

From the same article - "On Friday, the London Interbank Offered Rate, or LIBOR, for three-month dollar loans rose to 4.33 percent from 4.21 percent Thursday. That bank-to-bank lending rate has been rising all week, showing that banks are growing less and less willing to lend out their cash for longer than overnight"

[JuniperLea]

26. Confidence?

Is that why the Dow closed down again today?

The money and the oversight will be all gone before Obama takes office. I don't see confidence in any faces except Bush and Paulson's.

[LeftyFingerPop]

33. I'll say it again....

Buy the rumor, sell the news...bad jobs report.

[JuniperLea]

37. The Dow tanked again today...

More banks hit the watch list... more retailers are considering bankruptcy... someone better clue them all in on this confidence they are supposed to have.

[paparush]

52. CONFIDENCE? On what planet? Like sound credit is just going to materialize out of dark matter?

[mrJJ]

5. Bailing Out Wall Street

If you have PowerPoint on you box.. see how it worked

Subprime for dummies MS powerpoint req
http://marktomarket.typepad.com/marktomarket/files/financial_crisis_for_dummies.pps

[LeftyFingerPop]

7. WHO is Wall Street? n/t

[mrJJ]

46. heh

guess you didnt see the PowerPoint show...

[anigbrowl]

15. Oh, you know, 'they'. Fucking bastards, guillotine, Dennis Kucinich, yadda yadda

We do need a proper financial audit of pretty much all the dealer-brokers, and I have no doubt that this is going to result in prosecutions. But since most people don't have a clear idea of how brokerages or banks actually function, there's just a generalized anger directed at anyone who works there, regardless of whether they were a fiscally conservative risk manager or an excessively greedy fund manager.

Dennis Kucinich's heart might be in the right place, but I don' think he knows anything much about banking or commerce. Great showman though - you can rely on him to stand up and raise his fist about any issue.

[4 t 4]

18. Take a look

Other firms like Merrill Lynch and Citigroup/Smith Barney that broke the backs of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac by selling them billions in explosive derivatives have also seen their prior execs appointed to plum spots in the “rescue” mission

much more:
From http://www.counterpunch.org/martens09302008.html

[Hydra]

20. Heh

Considering the number of people who are being deliberately vague and saying "You don't know what you're talking about" vs. the solid info provided by the people who opposed this, I just have to laugh.

[RB TexLa]

17. Anyone who has five cents more than the poster.

:rofl:

[gravity]

19. Look in the mirror

This bill benefits everyone who has a stake in the American economy.

[hfojvt]

43. no DUer has a stake in the economy

we are all dirt poor without shinola to our name, and are only posting on the internets because we found a keyboard in a dumpster and made a wireless router out of scrap metal using stone knives and bearskins.

[jtrockville]

22. The folks who...

have MORE than $100,000.00 in a bank account, or MORE than $250,000.00 in a joint account, but couldn't figure out that if they split it between different banks it would have still been insured without an act of congress.

[Winterblues]

24. They will not be able to limit CEO compensation

That is a falicy just to placate the masses. How could they do that and abide by our Constitution?

[LeftyFingerPop]

27. Because they essentially own the banks that they bail out...

Government employees if you will.

[ContinentalOp]

30. How will the government own the banks?

Aren't we just buying their bad assets that they can't sell? :shrug:

[JuniperLea]

51. They have been rated as junk

Sadly, we probably won't see a dime back either.

We bought overpriced mortgages. The housing market isn't going to bounce back to the degree where we can get our money back any time soon... it could be decades... if ever. It was horribly over inflated... falsely over inflated even.

[JuniperLea]

38. No, they own 80% of AIG...

But this bailout is about mortgage backed securities... the securities themselves were bought, not the banks.

[LeftyFingerPop]

44. So, for the securities bought under this bailout...

Do you think they merely pay for them and get the securities, or do you think there is a written agreement, with clauses, and one of those clauses could address executive compensation?

[JuniperLea]

50. There are probably HUNDREDS of clauses in the, what...

451 pages. I have heard that there are golden parachute clauses, but that doesn't have anything to do with owning the bank.

It's like putting an offer on a house and saying, I'll give you $400k, but first you have to repair the back porch where the wood is rotting... and you have to repair the broken window in the back bedroom... and you have to replace the leaky water heater. Quid pro quo does not mean you own the bank.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

25. You'll be able to tell by the direction they aim the trickle.

[fascisthunter]

29. lol.... yellow rain... "...it's gold, I Swear"

[TreasonousBastard]

32. Everybody who has more money than I do! Which means...

just about everybody.

Down with the bosses!

Workers Unite!

Burn the Banks!

Beat Wall street to Deth with a Bull Penis!

(But first, let me actually get a job. Then I'll show the fuckers how to run the country.)

[LeftyFingerPop]

34. Lol. n/t

[4 t 4]

35. How can you possibly believe anything

you are told by this administration? There were red flags all over the place with this. The last 7-8 years should tell you if their lips are moving they are lying. Come on everybody, there were alternatives to this particular bail out plan. God damn it! Even Cramer ( for any of you that ever look at his show look at it now compared to last night ) HE IS GIDDY. is so happy tonight he can hardly stand himself, all his money is tied up in this shit too. There were alternatives to this, many. OMG not kidding still watching while I write this, he is so happy!

[JuniperLea]

39. He and Paulson are both giddy as all hell...

Makes me sick.

Yep, how anyone can trust the foxes who killed all our chickens is beyond me. We just handed the whole damn hen house over to them, lock, stock and rain barrel.

[4 t 4]

42. I was thinking of Paulson when

I wrote that because he was the first person I saw today in those pics that was absolutely giddy!!

[rhett o rick]

40. The CEO's stupid! The provision to limit their "pay" has holes big enough for even Karl Rove

to drive thru with his Hummer. This money allows the crooks (CEO's, etc.) to continue their Ponzi scheme. All the while they scrap off hundreds of billions. Where oh where do you think this money will end up?????????????????

I apologize for the stupid comment, it just came out.

[LeftyFingerPop]

45. I see.

If the name calling just came out, perhaps it could have been edited out just as easily.

[rhett o rick]

53. Chill jake, it's a little joke among friends. We are on the same side, I hope. nm

[natrat]

47. the op's naivety,or corruption, bores me nt

[LeftyFingerPop]

48. Fantastic support of your opinion...well done. n/t