Monday morning 623 eastern. Futures are crashing. Street must not like the plan.

[LeftyFingerPop]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/17689937

[corkhead]

1. or they don't think it will pass

[ShortnFiery]

3. Dammit, it should not pass. If we squander our money, WE, peasants go broke.

Throw Wall Street's tired meme back at them, Let the FREE MARKET balance out. :grr:

[lostnotforgotten]

5. Roger That - The Best Way To Counter A Bully Is To Let Them

Stew Their way to exhaustion!

[FreakinDJ]

2. Going to be a rough day on Wall St

Should have kept those industries in the US George

[lostnotforgotten]

4. Its Us Against Wall Street - If They Don't Get Their Way They Will Destroy Markets

Not Us!

[depakid]

8. You don't get it

If the credit markets freeze up- EVERYONE is screwed. You along with the rest of us.

[LeftyFingerPop]

9. Yep. n/t

[depakid]

11. The sheer number of clueless people on this site is astounding

It's as if double digit unemployment, lost retirement accounts and bankrupt companies and small businesses in every sector of the economy excites them.

[lostnotforgotten]

14. I Lived Through 5 Years Of Unemployment 2000 - 2005

What's another 5 years if it will once and for all rid us of these rapacious thieves.

Don't scare me with economic annihilation - I've already been there and done that.

[depakid]

17. And people like you just WISH your misfortune on others

That sort of deal REALLY sucks.

[lostnotforgotten]

19. Live Through What I Lived Through And Pay Back Is Hell For The

Wall Street Shysters!

[Mari333]

24. my retirement funds are hurting...badly

like being between a rock and a hard place..

[depakid]

29. Millions of people's are

not that the people who never planned for retirement give a damn about that.

Or the ideologues, who like freepers, oppose this based on hatred their for Wall Street.

I gotta tell you, I've lost a lot of respect for DU over the last couple of weeks.

[zeemike]

31. The problem is that you are in for a penney

And in for a penny , in for a pound.
Wall street holds people like you that are vested in the market hostage to the government.
Give us a trillion or we will put the hurt to them little guys with 401ks.
Some day I hope people will see that real security is not in a phony paper wealth but in real wealth, and stop playing the game of get rich quick.
You may give up on us but I have not given up on you.

[depakid]

33. Since when is responsible retirement planning a "get rich quick scheme?"

:crazy:

[zeemike]

34. When they convinced you that you could clean up in the market.

And let your money do the hustling for you.
Real wealth is in land and property, your children and their education, and things that last.
It is phony wealth if it can be wiped out with a simple paper transaction.

[Mari333]

45. gee , my son died and my husbands both died

so all i fucking had left was at least a retirement, and yes, it was in safe funds which i worked hard for. they have always been safe. until now. until now.
if I hear one more DUer tell me to start a garden I will punch someone. a lot of us old people have retirement funds in mutual funds and bonds. I guess this is a new form of euthanasia for us.
fuck this, i am out of here.

[Mari333]

46. gee , my son died and my husbands both died

so all i fucking had left was at least a retirement, and yes, it was in safe funds which i worked hard for. they have always been safe. until now. until now.
if I hear one more DUer tell me to start a garden I will punch someone. a lot of us old people have retirement funds in mutual funds and bonds. I guess this is a new form of euthanasia for us.
fuck this, i am out of here.

[girl gone mad]

37. it's a stick up.

[zeemike]

40. Yes but they don't need real guns.

[bread_and_roses]

44. about half of those with incomes < 30K yr have no retirement savings at all

And I think we can bet that of the half that do, most have very little. Extrapolate up from that - I doubt that say, a couple with two children making $60,000 household have been able to sock much away. Anyone care about them?

http://www.insurancenewsnet.com/article.asp?a=sa&id=63797

According to USAA's recent "Money Snapshot" survey, conducted by Harris Interactive(R), 51 percent of employed U.S. adults who are not retired say they want to save $1 million or more for retirement, but close to one-third (30 percent) haven't set aside anything at all for their golden years. Only about one-fourth (26 percent) have saved more than $50,000.

http://www.forbes.com/retirement/2005/05/04/cx_da_0504topnews.html

The nest eggs are cracked. Nearly 28 million U.S. households--37% of the total--do not own a retirement savings account of any kind. Among the households who owned a retirement savings account of any kind as of 2001, according to a 2004 report by the Congressional Research Service, the average value of all such accounts was $95,943. That number was distorted by the relatively few large accounts, and the median value of all accounts was just $27,000.

The median value of the retirement accounts held by households headed by a worker between the ages of 55 and 64 was $55,000 in 2001, the CRS says. To that, Stein adds that just 11% of all Americans have retirement savings of $250,000 or more.

I do not want to see anyone impoverished in retirement - anymore than I want to see impoverished children, lines of families at food banks, families sleeping in cars, tent cities, people dying because they have no health care coverage, etc. But...we have all that now. People are suffering now. I don't mean to dismiss or belittle your concerns, but I'm afraid these "people will suffer" laments really come down to: people who are not suffering NOW will suffer.

I do not think this bail-out will do anything for the ordinary small investor; it will benefit the rich, and when it comes to our social needs, we'll hear "we can't afford it."

[ixion]

36. let's make a note of this, depakid

If you're right, I'll be happy to admit as much. If I'm right, and this bailout does what myself and others believe it will do (make things worse), I'll be happy to accept the same admission from you. Sound fair?

[lostnotforgotten]

12. No Evidence That The Credit Markets Will Dry Up

Small Banks Seem To Be Working Just Fine.

All we have is scare mongering just like with 9/11.

As is said, where is the evidence?

[LeftyFingerPop]

15. It is a Catch-22.

The credit and equity markets are based on perception, not reality.

If confidence is lost, we are all toast.

They fucked us, and they fucked us good.

Something has to be done, even though it is distasteful.

[lostnotforgotten]

16. Let It Die In Flames - Reset The Board So The Rest Of Us Can Play

I do not intend to support resetting the board so Wall Street thieves can continue their run!

[LeftyFingerPop]

20. We are talking about the lives of families and children.

The banks must be saved first.

This will stop the credit and equity markets from crashing...

Which will stop the financial ruin of people like you and me...

THEN the rules must be changed.

Like I said...distasteful but necessary.

[lostnotforgotten]

22. What About My Life 2000 - 2005 - No One And I Mean No One

Was there for my bailout.

[LeftyFingerPop]

25. I'll tell you what...

If something is not done, you might get your wish, and be living it again. So will plenty of others.

Don't let your bitterness get in the way of your common sense.

Stop the bleeding, whatever it takes, and THEN do what is necessary to make sure this does not happen again.

[girl gone mad]

43. Bring back the jobs that have been shipped overseas..

put an end to outsourcing, pass universal single-payer health care.

We didn't demand an emergency 700 billion infusion for the working families who were destroyed by the same short-sighted, greedy corporatist policies that have gotten us into this mess.

[girl gone mad]

38. Confidence is long gone.

The banks destroyed their own reps. through years of bad behavior.

[depakid]

18. wtf are you talking about?

They DID freeze up just last week!

Moreover, lending rates are highest that they've been for 50 some years- and that's affecting all sorts of companies beyond the financial sector.

[lostnotforgotten]

21. So Says You, Paulson, and Bernanke - Prove It

From what I understand Paulson and Bernanke have been working n this plan for a year.

If you can't smell a scam from that fact, I'd question which one of us has their eyes open!

[LeftyFingerPop]

23. Just look at the markets...

Yes, it is a scam...but the markets are crashing.

That's the bottom line.

If the markets crash, that is all you need to know.

It doesn't matter if it is a scam.

[stray cat]

26. I'm skeptical as well. However, I hate to wait until a fatal heart attack to start treatment

[depakid]

28. It's INTERNATIONAL

meaning- ALL OVER THE WORLD.

Sorry- but that's not a "US conspiracy"

[girl gone mad]

39. and somehow life went on. n/t

[eridani]

13. Then the government ought to take direct control of the injection process, no? n/t

[MadHound]

32. Apparently you don't get it either

If this bailout goes through, we will have high inflation, perhaps hyper inflation. But worse yet is that US Treasury bonds will be downgraded, the same bonds we currently use to keep funding our government spending. Bond ratings go down, people don't want to buy our debt, government gets no financing, then we will see no government spending. All that taxpayer revenue goes to servicing our debt with nothing left over to be spent on infrastructure, Social Security, welfare, defense, nothing. The collapse we will experience will be much, much worse than any Second Depression.

Moody's was warning against this very possibility way back January, before we had threatened to take on this extra debt load. <http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/JA17Dj02.html>

On the news of this proposed bailout, some commercial houses already started downgrading bonds on their own. <http://financialtrader.com/Bond_Investor.html> Wait until this becomes official and across the board. You want to see holy hell break loose in this country, pass this bill and wait just a few months, you'll get your wish.

This is a case of where the cure is worse than the disease. Now do you get it?

[ixion]

35. exactly... this is the part that people don't want to acknowledge

they want to do this bailout thing, thinking it will keep them secure. It will not. It is, in fact, putting out a fire with gasoline. It will make things worse in the long run, not better.

We're adding to the magnitude of the depression that needs to happen in any case. The longer we wait, the more money we throw at it to try and make it go away, the worse it will be.

[girl gone mad]

41. I doubt you'll get a response to that.

I haven't yet.

[PVnRT]

42. Shhhh. Let the "true leftists" revel in their fantasy for a while.

[K Gardner]

27. I agree, its financial blackmail. We're screwn, either way.

[fla nocount]

6. Any accountability, transparency or oversight is going to screw the pooch for them.

[dipsydoodle]

7. May be related to

the risk it will not clear by 30th September as I understand that all of the hedge funds need to be settled 1st October. Might even get a few jumpers if that happens and if we do then personally I'll applaud - fuck 'em.

[coyote]

10. My friends....

There is always another stick save when you can change the rules of the game on a whim.

[Smart Guy 4 Freedom]

30. Make the wealthy pay for their own bailout.

If they are going to give $700 billion to the Wall Street bankers then they should tax them to cover the cost.

Why do we the middle class and poor have to carry their debt, as well as our own debt?

Sure bail them out, then turn around and put a 5 to 10% tax on everyone with more than $10 million in assets or earnings.

There is a better way.