How fucked up is it that here we are, weeks from an election, and the Democrats and Bush ........

[Stinky The Clown]

... are alone out there, arm in arm on an issue?

Just how fucked up is that?

I honestly don't know what the right answer is for this bailout crap, but Jaybus on a crutch, how do Democrats get INTO these messes?

I don't trust Bush as far as I can throw him. Has he done this at this time as a way to garner some redemption from his own party? Is this whole thing some well planned gambit about which the repubs are in caucus laughing their asses off? Is this just an example of being smart, turning on a dime, and capitalizing politically from the nooz of the day - a skill the repubs have and one that we seem not to possess?

Whatever it is, how fucked up is it?

:eyes:

[glowing]

1. Personally, I'd send money to the middle class until Bush leaves, and

then fix the mess like grown-ups.. I don't like this rushed plan to keep Wallstreet propped up... It won't work.. Did none of these bastards study history.

[knowledgeispwr]

2. Dems and Bush may agree that there needs to be a bailout...

but they don't agree on the terms.

It's disingenuous to suggest that they are "arm in arm."

[Stinky The Clown]

3. Hahahaha

Hahahaha

Tell that to the voters.

[Viva_Daddy]

4. Here's why I don't trust Bush

Because what is to stop him simply using another one of his infamous "signing statements" to totally ignore the "conditions" that the Dems put into this bailout bill? Nothing at all. If we can't delay some kind of bill until Bush leaves office, we must trickle the money very gradually so that most of the bailout money is not spent until AFTER Bush leaves.

[SoCalDem]

5. We "get into it" by not standing up to him..

Every step along the way, where we have bent to him, has only made him surer that we would continue to do so, and now his October surprise and his final F-You to us all, is his latest.

He had probably been told that this debacle (which he's been preparing for for MONTHS) would hold off until after he left, but since it was starting to implode, he just dumped it on us now..

The FIRST thing dems should have pushed for when they took over , was to revisit the "regulation/lack of it" issue, and to roll-back the bankruptcy legislation.

I know we have had a slim margin of majority, BUT our anticipated gains in 40 days, may be evaporating as the republican MINORITY has now claimed the populist high-ground by standing up to Bush, and "appearing" to be on the side of the "little guy", as we seem to be standing by Wall street & theirs cronies.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. All that dry powder they stored is blowing up in their faces.

[stillcool]

6. I wish I were more educated about all this...

I've seen so many columns on the need to do something, so many suggestions of what to do, the discussion draft of Senator Dodd's Plan
http://banking.senate.gov/public/_files/LegislativeTextofChairmansDoddsproposalfortheTreasuryBailoutplanAYO08B68_xml.pdf

and then so much of the other sides stance of do nothing, there is no way I can form an opinion.

[Stinky The Clown]

11. I don't know what the right option is either. But what I DO know is that our side looks kinda ......

.... stupid.

The repubs are running away from this. Why?

The position we've taken started bipartisan, but then the more weak-kneed repubs (John Boner, anyone?) started running away from it when their more hardline colleagues (Adam Putnam, anyone?) started pressing them. Why?

At this point, this isn't about a solution any more. It is about political gamesmanship. And we just ain't so hot at that, yanno?

[stillcool]

12. It feels like I'm watching a

performance by Siegfried and Roy

[Two Americas]

18. 100-1

Calls and emails to the Republican representatives from their constituents are running 100-1 against the bailout. Politicians can not safely ignore that and retain their offices.

Fortunately for the Republicans, the Democrats are carrying water for the administration on the bailout, so the Republicans can safely oppose it. They keep their constituents happy, and the Democrats pass their bill for them.

Calls and emails to the Democratic representatives from their constituents are running 100-1 against the bailout, as well. They apparently think that they can safely ignore that and retain their offices. Or....??????

[adamuu]

7. "arm in arm" are you crazy?

Unless you think that being led around in handcuffs counts as arm-in-arm.

[Individualist]

8. It has the stink of DLC all over it.

[Sebastian Doyle]

13. Yep. This is planned sabotage on behalf of the DLC

They know Obama has the Presidential election won (aside from a massive nationwide obvious theft by the Repukes) so they have to concentrate on minimizing Democratic wins in both houses of congress, keeping the "majority" as thin as it is now, or giving it to the Repukes.

Why?

Because the DLC does not want a true Democratic majority in two branches of government. They are Repuke infiltrators and sympathizers from day one, and they benefit from Repuke wins, because it allows them to spew the FUCKING LIE that the Democratic Party is "too liberal" and needs to keep moving to the right.

Also, once the Repukes are back in the minority where they belong, the DLC knows who the next target is in 2010. And they're right to be worried about that, because they DO have to go..... (preferably back to whichever circle of Hell it is they came from)

[HamdenRice]

10. Here's my take on it from another thread

Bush is a "high functioning moron" who was marched out to show that the administration, while out of the loop, supports the plan.

But we are seeing a fundamental shift in constituencies and coalitions:

Btw, I think there's now a big gulf between the ideological repug house politicians and their business constituency who see that we really are on the abyss and are willing to give us the keys to the castle (nationalization) to save the system.

The repugs are not actually business people. They are ideologues. Look at what they are proposing. In a complete collapse they would abolish corporate taxes, capital gains taxes, all regulations, social security, etc.

People don't seem to realize that we are in an extraordinary moment of political realignment. Paulson does not represent the Bush admin or the ideological house repug position. He is "caucusing" with the Dems on this.

A few days ago, accused of implementing socialism, he said, "it's not socialism; it's necessary."

That's where we are. But people are too spitting angry to accept the keys to the kingdom.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. Read the actual proposed legislation

this is not what Bush and Paulson want

[dkofos]

15. Is it availabe yet. I already saw the one from yesterday. I'm talking

about the new TOOTHLESS one they will shove down our throats tomorrow.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Once today's version is ready I will be readying it

and making comments and sending a fax

I will do my duty as a citizen

if they hear from enough of us... though the republicans need it more than the cowards on our side, the better chance of making a dent

[dkofos]

17. I will be greasing my rectum in anticipation.

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. And not participating in the process?

I think democracy is not good for Americans any more

:-(

[dkofos]

20. This hasn't been a democracy since the coup of 2000!!

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. Guarantee it will not be if people refuse to participate

as to the coup agreed, so what are you planning to do to change that?

[bigtree]

22. I don't know a way to get legislation through without Bush

I don't know how to avoid a financial catastrophe without legislation.

How fucked up is that?