Despite All Evidence To The Contrary; They Believe.

[20score]

There is a thought process used by many right-wing people that allows them to believe a particular talking point in the face of mountains of evidence to the contrary. It is the same method used by the creationists to hold onto the belief that the earth is six thousand years old, and having that belief backed up with nothing logical or scientific.

It’s a process of - just believing. Don’t think, don’t dwell, just believe. In order to make this work, one has to be very selective of the facts allowed into the mind. It is the process used for a thousand years during medieval times. And while you can argue that in the middle ages, all they had was observable phenomenon, with no scientific method; there were still logic gaps. Five minutes of objective thought would have destroyed trial by ordeal. Because even though they believed in divine intervention, the testers, the ones meting out the punishment, would not have subjected themselves to the same ordeal. They knew but would not admit, even to themselves, their method was flawed.

The same thought processes are occurring now with the supporters of the war. How many people have talked about how the Iraqis should be grateful that we’re there? Would the same people parroting that talking point be grateful for a foreign army patrolling our streets? Imprisoning entire neighborhoods without trial? Torturing people and breaking down doors? The simple answer is no, but that is simply shut out of the supporters mind. The talking point is all that’s allowed in.

The most ridiculous talking points in my opinion were the “fight them over there so we won’t have to fight over here.” And “the Iraq War has made us safer.” This one is made with the implication being that the terrorists are afraid to attack us; ‘cause they know we mean business. To believe that - even though terrorist attacks worldwide have increased over the course of the war - means you would have to believe that a terrorist is okay with killing himself in Europe or Asia, but is afraid to kill himself in America.

Now, one of the latest memes being spread through right-wing world is that the financial problems are the Democrat’s fault. You see, because the Democrats had control congress for a year and a half. These of course are the same Democrats that have warned about the debt and deficit, the financial cost of the war, and asked for more oversight in the financial institutions, during the prior six years when Republicans controlled all three branches of government. It doesn’t even take five minutes of objective thought to destroy this talking point, but if you just believe, it will become true.

[Rdmn]

1. Interesting post

Its a little more then that. They can't face the possibility that the facts that prove them wrong are real, because it would force them to re-evaluate everything they believe and think. This is more then some are willing or possibly able to do.

If they actually think, they will see contradictions in what they claim to believe and the policies they support, so they find an excuse, even if it is an obvious lie, they repeat it when ever they start to think to keep themselves from actually thinking about it. Thats why lying to some voters is so much more successful then people that actually do think believe it could be. They are not stupid about it, they are not allowing their belief to be challenged. When talking to someone like that, just show them a contridiction. Then they have to admit to themselfs what they are doing. Or they get mad at you so they don't have to think about it. It litterally is about trying to actually reach their thinking mind, and get past the guards in their minds not letting them realize the truth of what they may actually be doing.

Its not just accepting scientific method, scientific method falls down in many cases, especially in regards to the spiritual world, but thinking about the contradictions within some elements of the spiritual world can keep a person from following the wrong directions.

Sort of the Captain Kirk Statement. "Why would God need a spaceship?" in The Undiscovered Country he showed that a spiritual request can be actually something else in disguise, he did this by thought, but this did not disprove the existence of the extraordinary force involved, it just showed that it was not what it claimed and gave him discernment.

On the idea of Creation, maybe when God created the world 6000 years ago, at that same moment, he also created 12 billion years of back story to give us puzzles to solve :)

[20score]

3. Since I'm relatively new myself, this is the first time I've said, welcome to DU

Good points, too. I wanted to incorporate more points myself, but I'd end up writing a book.

[suede1]

4. Which points?

Also, do you have any ideas on how to reduce the incidence of SCS, as per my previous post?

I know lots of us know some of its victims. And some have combated it with some success. And probably more than a few, such as myself, just haven't been able to break through those barriers of theirs.

[20score]

5. Well, two things I wanted to bring up. Rationalization and projection

But I'd really have to write a whole new post for those two things.As for combating SCS, I really believe most of the people who are still on board with Bush are beyond help. Or, at least quick help. Most people left are very hard core.

[suede1]

2. Santa Claus Syndrome

I have recently started calling this phenomena "Santa Claus Syndrome" or SCS.

It seems to fit the wishful thinking of minds as yet too immature to use logic. Unfortunately, SCS is not as easily resolved as the actual belief in the fat man in the red suit. Most kids would easily give up the Santa myth once they see a picture of their dad assembling the bicycle, or over hear mom talking to a friend about getting one of the gifts that was supposed to be from Santa, rather than mom & dad.

This is not the case with adults who have their own versions of SCS.

I wish I had a solution for the problem, as I know a few SCS victims.

I am open to any and all suggestions.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Good points and welcome to all of you

[20score]

7. Thank you nadinbrzezinski!

[Tansy_Gold]

8. There is a considerable body of scientific research on this

Readily available -- and FREE! -- is Bob Altemyer's wonderful and readable book "The Authoritarians."
http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/ Dr. Altemyer generously offers the entire book online.



An article also online:
http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/haidt08/haidt08_index.html
Obviously not as extensive as Altemyer, but it has some good information about how these social/psychological theories are developed.


another online article:
http://psychoanalystsopposewar.org/resources_files/ConsevatismAsMotivatedSocialCognition.pdf

This is a very academic research paper, not for the faint-hearted! but it is reviewed at
http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/07/22_politics.shtml
which gives an overview.


Any of these publications contains additional references and resources for anyone interested in pursuing the matter further.


In simplistic terms, "conservatives" tend to fear change, tend to seek and hold opinions that focus on black and white issues with a deep distrust of nuance and ambiguity, tend to feel more comfortable in well-defined hierarchies so they know exactly where their place is (and especially who they're "better" than), tend to prefer NOT to think about issues but rather have their stance on isues dictated to them by someone else.

Whether some people are "hard-wired" to be conservatives hasn't really been determined but there are some indications that they might be.



Tansy Gold

[20score]

9. Thanks, those are good links. I've bookmarked them.

And I forgot authoritarianism. It came to mind on the way home when I thought about writing this; and just forgot.

[GeorgeGist]

10. Reality strongly suggests that they take Genesis seriously ...

and refuse to eat the forbidden fruit of wisdom.

[20score]

11. And what do you know, according to Randi Rhodes, Limbaugh was pushing

this meme today. Bastard.