Catching rain water is against the law.

[tannybogus]

Who owns the rain? Not you, it turns out. You're actually breaking the law if you capture the rain falling on your roof and pour it on your flower bed! A prominent Utah car dealer found that out when he tried to do something good for the environment.

Car dealer Mark Miller collects rainwater on the roof of his new building, stores it in a cistern and hopes to clean cars with it in a new, water-efficient car wash. But without a valid water right, state officials say he can't legally divert rainwater. "I was surprised. We thought it was our water," Miller said.

State officials say it's an old legal concept to protect people who do have water rights. Boyd Clayton, the deputy state engineer, said, "Obviously if you use the water upstream, it won't be there for the person to use it downstream."

So what about the little guy, watering with rainwater at home?

Clayton said, "If she really does that, then she ought to have a water right to do it." He added that they would not likely make an issue out of it, though, because they have "bigger fish to fry."

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=4001252

As silly as it sounds, as water dwindles, this might become more and more of an issue.

[HereSince1628]

1. Eastern and western states have very different laws about water rights

Not surprisingly, in the drier parts of the country there is a lot more interest in having complete control.

[tannybogus]

3. This is becoming a national problem so that may change.

Their is a lawsuit in court between GA and TN now. Google and you will find water issues everywhere.

[HereSince1628]

11. Yes, certainly there are water issues everywhere.

And yes, it is certainly the case that laws may change (and as a progressive I hope laws can be changed in a progressive manner).

But in trying to change natural resource and environmental law, everyone must be aware that long-standing law creates not only precedent but is both drawn from and shapes social history and regional culture. Social practices and standing expectations thereby influence the wiggle room and direction in which laws can be expected to shift. My point is that the eastern and western US relate very differently to natural resources. Water rights certainly reflect that.

[tannybogus]

14. True

No doubt that the West will have different laws, and be shaped differently.

I think though that the issue of water rights is getting hotter everywhere

and areas once without laws will begin to pass them in some form.:hi:

[More_liberal_than_mo]

19. Water fight with both FL and AL also

THe GA-TN fight is over a plan to declare that the state line in north GA actually should have been drawn a few miles further north giving GA access to the Tennessee River. That's really a stretch and not going to fly but, the real battle is over downstream water from the Chattahoochee River (Atlanta's water supply).

The drought of the past 3 years has reduced the level of Lake Lanier on the Chattahoochee by 15 to 20 feet. Atlanta is under extreme drought level restrictions while the Army Corps of Engineers is required to release over 700 million gallons a day from the lake so that Alabama and Florida downstream can have enough water for their use.

[FreakinDJ]

2. I wonder if he can send them the bill for cleaning the cars

YOUR Rainwater made my cars dirty - here is the bill for cleaning them

[katmondoo]

4. I live in a small condo in Florida and

when it rains hard I go out and wash my car. It gets washed and rinsed free. Of course this works only when there is no lightning.

[EvilAL]

5. I don't know

but it seems to me that if I fill huge barrels with water and use them for watering the water is still going to go where it was meant to go, maybe a few days later, but it'll get there. Sounds crazy, like those "it's illegal to have more than 8 rabbits on the same block in Alabama" or some shit like that.

[tannybogus]

8. The problem is time.

It is also the number of people who do that. It takes time for the water that is collectively caught to

make it into the groundwater and back into the system. It does sound silly on the face of it. However,

tell that to the people in Atlanta who were literally a month away from having no drinking water.
:hi:

[EvilAL]

10. If everyone was doing it

I guess it could create a problem for others that aren't doing it. I can see the reasons for wanting to have the natural flow of water going. However paying for rain water is just weird to me. If it's a dry place in need of rain and you catch the rain to use it that would be a good thing I figure.
I have a well, I suppose I am diverting that water each time I shower. Since I tapped it myself I might actually own that water.

:hi:

[alarimer]

18. Most rainwater ends up in storm drains anyway.

Parking lots and blacktop just cause runoff; it isn't absorbed into the ground. On its way into the storm drains it collects all kinds of pollution and it is usually not treated before it ends up in whatever stream it goes to.

[The River]

21. Storm Water Retention

is mandatory in my area of central Virginia.
Large tanks / pipes are buried under parking lots to
to store and re-release runoff at a much slow rate.
Bio-filter areas are planted with water "cleansing"
plants to handle smaller areas. Doing anything within
100' of a stream is verboten.
Subdivisions are required to build ponds
to catch and slow-release runoff and trap silt.

Proper engineering in all areas of water use/
collection could solve most water scarcity issues.

[uncle ray]

23. here in colorado springs they stick it to us every way they can

as in the OP it is illegal to capture rain water for your own use if you don't have the water rights. at the same time, they charge a runoff fee based on the amount of impermeable surface you have on "your" property.

i understand the reasoning behind these laws, but at what point will they say regardless of if you irrigate or not, you cannot plant any crop or vegetation on your property because it will steal the water owned by T Boone Pickens?

what a farce land ownership can be in this country. you can buy a piece of land, but not have water or mineral rights along with it. so at any point the person who DOES have those "rights" can basically take your land away.

[JimDandy]

29. That is the same in Utah. So Miller still would have had to pay the runoff fee

even though none of the water he caught for the car wash would have gone directly into the storm sewer. (The Clean Water Act requires commercial car washes to pay a separate sewer fee to treat and dispose of the contaminated wash water.)

[SmokingJacket]

16. It's being used by YOUR plants, not by a giant business that

has bought the water rights.

I do wonder if water rights should also come with water responsibilities. If you own the rain, you have to pay people whose houses are flooded, etc.

[JimDandy]

28. My thoughts exactly. I lived there. It's more likely that some

competitor was upset that Mark Miller would not have the expense of a water bill for his car wash (free water) and he would. Therefore Miller could charge less for washes.

[Jim__]

6. On the international scene, the IMF and World Bank push for corporate water rights.

It is estimated that 1.2 billion people do not have adequate access to clean water. The vast
majority of these people live in impoverished countries in the Global South, countries hit hard by
structural adjustment programs imposed by the World Bank and IMF. A major tenant of
structural adjustment is privatization of services. The Universal Declaration on Human Rights
states that access to clean safe water is basic element of human rights. Yet the World Bank and
IMF have pushed for the privatization of water in impoverished countries ultimately limiting
access to clean water for millions. When water is privatized as part of loan agreements or as part
of debt relief programs like the Heavily Indebted Poor Country Initiative, consumers are most
often met with rising costs. In rural areas and areas of extreme poverty where water distribution is
less profitable because few people can pay for water services water distribution is cut off
altogether.
more ...

If you think access to oil is a problem today, wait 'til corporations have locked up access to water.

[ccharles000]

7. WTF

[organic]

9. We Also May Use The Water Underground, Too, But At What Price?

According to this article in the WSJ http://www.wsj.com/article/SB121745840551198655.html affluent McMansioners in the Middle Atlantic states are using their chump change (which can amount to 1/3 of some people's annual salaries) to dig incredibly deep private wells for private use solely to water their manicured acres and circumvent drought restrictions placed upon use of municipal water for such petty purposes. Just because you may have rights to that water under your property, doesn't mean you have the moral or ethical right to squander a precious natural resource (especially in times of drought) to maintain a few little green meatball-foundation plants, a pot of petunias or a lawn, which will just go dormant and bounce back when some rains and cooler weather return.

The fact that the continued practice of tapping into these aquifers may destroy the bedrock and surrounding ground structure; the fact that this could impact water supplies of those less well off and dependent on more shallow wells; the fact that even municipalities ultimately depend on underground water supplies; the fact that imposition of drought restrictions are increasing as more and more parts of this nation become parched; and the fact that using a precious, natural resource necessary for human viability for such (pardon the pun) 'shallow', fatuous purposes is beyond frivolous. It's shameful. In a world where water will also become as scarce and coveted as oil, it's shameful and provides yet another reasons for foreign nations to hate us.

The rich get richer and greener lawns, too. As if the later matters.

[bicentennial_baby]

12. I've never heard of Riparian rights being applied to rainwater

Weird. :crazy:

[tannybogus]

13. It's probably going to get way weirder too. nt

[Gormy Cuss]

34. It's the West.

I would guess that the thinking is based on the highly seasonal nature of precipitation here
(paging XemaSab-- she probably knows the reasoning)

We're one weak rainy season from a declared drought here yet I can't use gray water on my ornamental plants unless I build an expensive system that percolates it up from 9 inches under ground. I can install a well and suck as much out of the underground sources as I please. It truly is weird.

[NightWatcher]

15. I've just got my two plastic barrels and will finish my catcher this week. Water is the new Oil

[SmileyRose]

17. I'm in Atlanta - I need new gutters - where should I send the bill?

The people who own the rain at my house either need to replace they system on my house that collects their rain or else they need to start paying me to collect it for them.

:evilgrin:

[nichomachus]

20. This is all in preparation

for all water supplies and distribution in the US to be privatized. Want water? You will be forced to buy it from the local water corporation at whatever price they want to charge.

[Randypiper]

22. Not so in Allegheny County Pa

We have a Rain Barrel Program that encourages us to collect the rain water. It is method for controlling stormwater, which contributes significantly to sewage overflows polluting our rivers and streams.

[lonestarnot]

24. Water war our next war. And you thought oil war was bad.

:(

[2Design]

25. this is what bermuda does and I thought it was a good idea

especially considering BFEE is buying up water rights everywehre

[kurth_]

26. It's a weird hodgepodge:

Just look at Texas - where there is no state law against it:
Austin offers $500 rebates to encourage rainwater catchment.
San Antonio pays up to half the costs of a system.
But in Richardson, a homeowner has to apply for a special permit, pay $1,500 in fees, and have two public hearings.
http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/wfaa/latestnews/stories/wfaa080704_lj_whitely.237bd762.html

[satya]

27. Also illegal in Washington State.

Saving Rain: How much is too much?

Technically, rain that falls on your roof isn't yours for the taking. It's a resource of the state, which regulates the use of public waters through an allocation process that can take years to navigate.

The state has long allowed people to collect a small amount of rain without asking.

Although no one wants to police homeowners harvesting a few hundred gallons for a backyard garden, the state hasn't defined where that regulatory threshold lies. Someone collecting rain in larger quantities to irrigate a farm or wash laundry in a new condo building without a state water right could be breaking the rarely enforced law.

"We're not going to start issuing permits for a pickle barrel in the backyard. But what if it's four pickle barrels or a system that has 20,000 gallons of storage?" said Brian Walsh, a manager in the Department of Ecology's water resources program.

[eridani]

30. If Bechtel shouldn't own water, why should you or I?

Both private parties, right? If communities own water, then we have to collectively decide how to use it. If there are no shortages, then personal or business cisterns are no big deal. That must inevitably change if there are incipient shortages.

[Thirtieschild]

31. We live something like a quarter mile from the Continental Divide as the raven flies

As I understand it - and I could be wrong - those of us on the eastern side of the divide have rights to our water (except we don't have any) while people on the western side have strict laws to govern what they can and can't use.

[MissB]

33. That's roughly right.

The west uses "prior appropriation" to establish water rights (first in, first use - last in, last in line for water), and all water is publicly owned.

I've never heard of any public entity actually going after the gutter water though. Weird.

[Festivito]

32. Water. It's the new oil. /nt