Palin Lying About Selling SOA Jet on eBay!!!

[ddeclue]

They were unable to move the plane for a profit on eBay so they resorted to a plane broker so NO she DIDN'T sell it on eBay and she's a damned liar.

http://www.adn.com/sarah-palin/story/203814.html

From the Alaska Daily News (ADN):

Palin tries new tactic to unload hated jet (4/22/2007)

By KYLE HOPKINS | [email protected] / Anchorage Daily News

Published: September 2nd, 2008 04:40 PM
Last Modified: September 2nd, 2008 04:44 PM

Editor's note: This story was originally published April 22, 2007

The state has tried selling its unwanted jet online four times and failed. So last week, the Palin administration signed a contract with an Anchorage aircraft broker who thinks he can succeed where eBay couldn't The eBay thing didn't work out very well, said Dan Spencer, director of administrative services for the Department of Public Safety. He's the person charged with trying to get rid of the infamous Westwind II.

The administration made a deal last week with Turbo North Aviation, promising the broker a 1.49 percent cut of the selling price.

Former Gov. Frank Murkowski bought the jet, which cost the state about $2.6 million, over the protests of the Legislature and used it to fly around the state, sometimes mixing campaign errands with government business.

After he defied almost everyone to acquire it, the jet became a political albatross for Murkowski. Gov. Sarah Palin beat Murkowski bad in last August's Republican primary. One of her campaign promises was to sell the plane and she's been trying to unload it for months. Robert Heckmann owns Turbo North Aviation. He said his company has sold more than 1,800 planes including two dozen or so jets in the past 27 years.

Spencer said Heckmann suggested the asking price of $2,450,000, based on the current jet market.

ADVERTISEMENT

The state's definitely not going to give this plane away. If that was the case, then they would have sold it on eBay Heckmann said. He described prospective buyers a governments, corporate entities, oil companies, movie stars, well-to-do people.

Meanwhile, the state is stuck making quarterly payments of about $62,000 on the Westwind II. So is the state sick of dealing with this bird?

I don't know about anyone else Spencer said. You don't want to keep making payments on something you're not using, he said. l'll be happy when it sells. I'll be a happy guy.

[cherokeeprogressive]

1. Her words were "I PUT it on eBay".

Not a lie.

[ddeclue]

It's still a damned lie... go ask Bill Clinton what the meaning of "is" is...

I'm sick and tired of needing a microscope and tweezers to parse weasely statements. I want someone who isn't gonna lie to me or try to trick me.

If she didn't sell it on eBay shouldn't have brought it up as a "selling point"!

Doug D.

[dysfunctional press]

3. if you don't know the difference between "put" and "sold", remedial english may be a good idea...

:eyes:

[itsrobert]

5. I guess you missed the rally today

John McCain said, "she sold the plane on ebay and sold it for a profit"

[Winterblues]

17. If John McCain said that then he LIED but Sarah did not LIE.

:shrug: She placed the jet on ebay twice and no takers. Later the state received an offer at half the price that was paid and they accepted the offer. Sarah did not LIE when she said she put it on ebay and those trying to make it an issue look like fools.

[ddeclue]

18. It's a LIE OF OMISSION

She failed to reveal a relevant fact: It did not sell there.

It was a deliberate attempt to deceive, ergo it was a lie.

Doug D.

[malaise]

55. Rubbish

She did not correct McLIAR

[ddeclue]

6. Considering I scored a 660 on the VERBAL part of my SAT

and that was my low score (Math was 750) please don't bother to lecture me on definitions.

The implication was that she sold it on eBay.

That was a deliberate attempt to mislead ergo she is a liar.

Doug D.
Orlando, FL

Bachelor of Aerospace Engineering, Georgia Tech
Certificate in American Literature, Georgia Tech
Lettered in Music, Georgia Tech
Licensed Pilot, FAA

[itsrobert]

12. Congrats

Thank you. Some people just don't GET it.

[dysfunctional press]

22. ummm...okay...despite your scores, 'put' and 'sold' still mean two different things.

words mean things.

and as long as we're whipping them out-

i didn't take the sat's myself- our school stressed the act test back in 1978. i got a 29 in the english portion(my low score as well), but it was enough to get me out of the freshman rhetoric requirement at u of i, and enough to put me in the 99th percentile nationally. math was my best section- aced it with a 36 (99th percentile) natural sciences was a 33 and social sciences was 32- both 99th percentile as well.

since i was also a stoner class clown- it REALLY pissed off the faculty at the lutheran high school that i went to.

but- it never translated to any kind of academic success beyond high school. i tried several colleges/universities over several years- michigan state, illinois state, u of i (cham-bana/chicago), & northwestern- did well enough, but lacked any direction or defined goal...(career counseling at the lutheran school consisted of determining if you were better suited to be a lutheran teacher, a lutheran pastor, or a lutheran missionary) so i took some time off, started working on construction, then traveled awhile, worked more construction, got married, tried to go back to school, but became disabled by a previously un/mis-diagnosed and painful arthritic spinal condition caused by an auto-immune disorder- ankylosing spondylitis.

she chose her words carefully so as not to be actually lying about it.
she's a politician.

[ddeclue]

24. A lie's a lie... I don't believe in Clintonian parsing..

A lie of omission is STILL a lie.

[dysfunctional press]

28. the voters won't see it that way- just you.

:hi:

[ddeclue]

30. You're wrong.. this lie is already unraveling on the news tonight..

People are sick and tire of the b.s.

[dysfunctional press]

31. cable news or network news...?

cable news means the only people who see it are the partisans who won't be moved by it anyway...

until abc/nbc/cbs cover it, it hasn't happened for the majority of the electorate.

[ddeclue]

33. Disagree..plenty of independents watch cable news..

Stay tuned for the networks to cover it soon.

[dysfunctional press]

34. don't hold your breath- it's a NON-story.

plenty of other stuff out there that actually has merit.

[ddeclue]

35. Guess again...it's the Good Ol' Boy network at work and..

she's already lied about it once already and I can show how the plane was sold at a $500,000 loss to the state and 300,000 less than the broker's asking price to a Republican donor whose wife donated $1000 to John Harris (Alaska Speaker of the House and fellow Republican). Special favors for special donors is NOT reform.

And as to media here's the link I saw here tonight:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3932536&mesg_id=3932536

I also heard it on Sirius radio on CNN channel.

Doug D.

[dysfunctional press]

36. she had promised to sell t if elected...it wasn't moving, so it went for a discount...

and "surprise" the businessman who can afford a jet is a republican...what a SHOCK!:eyes:

are the people of alaska up in arms about how it turned out?

it's NOT an issue.

[ddeclue]

37. It IS an issue and NO it is NOT fine.

You can't conduct government like that helping your friends out with special favors in exchange for campaign contributions. It's not a random person who just happened to be a Republican, he bought access with a 1000 dollar donation and got a special favor in return. Hardly "reform" in my book.

If you really believe that this kind of "governance" is "ok" then I suggest you switch parties and become a Republican.

Doug D.
Orlando, FL

[dysfunctional press]

38. who did who what favour...?

they had a plane they couldn't sell...he wanted one...he and the broker came to terms that were agreeable to all parties.

the campaign contribution wasn't even the max allowed was it? the guy did it as a way of saying 'thanks' after the fact, is how it seems to me. considering how much the plane cost, the contribution is less than the sales tax would be.

i just don't see why you insist on thinking it's some type of evil conspiracy...? are the alaskan people outraged over how it turned out with the plane? :shrug:

[ddeclue]

43. Oh brother...

what do you need to be convinced.

The public is NOT aware that this guy donated. This is NOT Kosher.

You don't donate to someone and then get a huge discount on an airplane because that someone hooked you up with the Governor.

The plane was marked down $300,000 from the asking price!

The REASON they couldn't sell the plane before is because they tried to sell it on EBAY instead of trying to sell it through trade-a-plane or a broker like any sensible aircraft owner would do if they really wanted to move it. I'm a pilot and I even looked into buy a small plane a few years back and eBay is NOT the place to do it.

And the Alaskan people apparently don't know so that's why they aren't outraged. As far as I'm aware no one has published THIS story yet.

Doug D.
Orlando,FL

[dysfunctional press]

51. do you have evidence of the timeline you propose...?

for one thing- was the relatively SMALL campaign donation made before or after the sale...?
according to your claims, the donation was made to gain access to get the plane- so obviously that donation must have been made before the sale took place...correct?

so- what's the timeline? lay it out, and support it with links, instead of supposition.

[jmowreader]

63. They do, but that's not the point

A lot of the people who might vote for those people have put stuff on eBay, like collectibles maybe--things that sell for a very low price compared to a business jet. At the end of the auction, someone sends them money and they mail off the item. So, to Joe American, "put on eBay" and "sold on eBay" are synonymous.

As someone here put it in another thread, generally people who are in the market for airplanes don't buy them through eBay because the transaction fees are outrageous--they use eBay to set up a backchannel conduit through which the item actually sells.

Joe American, when he hears that Palin put the plane on eBay, which she did repeatedly, is going to think she sold it there, which she did not.'

A better way to handle this would have been to tell the people she came into office largely on a pledge to sell Murkowsky's plane, and "I sold it as quickly as I possibly could." That would have been the truth--it sold as soon as she quit fucking around on eBay and went to an aircraft broker like she should have done in the first place. But Republicans have this strange problem with telling the truth. It's almost like they'd RATHER lie.

[juajen]

39. This is an anonymous board. You can say you're the president of Microsoft and we wouldn't know the

difference. It's silly to give us your CV. For instance, I'm President of Stanford University. See?

[ddeclue]

42. OK... I won't be anonymous...

Douglas J. De Clue
Orlando, FL
Graduated Georgia Tech Bachelor of Aerospace Engineering, December 1989.

SEE...

[dysfunctional press]

64. well that proves it.

:eyes:

[L. Coyote]

49. I won the Pulitser prise, butt I'm not lordin it over everione.

[mcg]

15. I agree, she implied that it sold on eBay, otherwise why even mention eBay?

She made it sound like the plane was sold on eBay. More importantly, when McCain lied about a profit, she didn't correct him.

[thecrow]

20. She PUT it on ebay

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3472351&mesg_id=3472784

[ddeclue]

25. IRRELEVANT - her point was to DECEIVE YOU INTO BELIEVING SHE SOLD IT THERE

It's intent that matters in a lie. She intended to deceive therefore it is a lie.

Doug D.

[dysfunctional press]

27. you can nuance it, and see it however you want- the average american voter won't see it as a lie...

so you might as well find another dead horse to beat, or something else to get your panties in a bunch over...:eyes:

[ddeclue]

29. Apparently you're wrong as she is getting beaten up over it in the press today..

They see it my way and so will the voters.

They are tired of the bullsh*t just like me.

[dysfunctional press]

32. which "press"...? no mention of it on the national news shows...

:shrug:

[slackmaster]

54. I did not assume that the placement of the plane on eBay resulted in a sale

Maybe I'm a little less gullible than some people.

[gulliver]

23. It sure is.

She knowingly left the impression she sold it on eBay. And McCain apparently believed the lie. Bet he's freaking pissed.

"You know what I enjoyed the most? She took the luxury jet that was acquired by her predecessor and sold it on eBay -- and made a profit!" McCain declared in Wisconsin at a campaign stop on Friday.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/05/plane_not_sold_on_ebay.html

[juajen]

40. That's McCain's fault. I read about it yesterday.

I believe his staff is stupid or he just liked the story. At any rate, Sarah did not lie. So, people, get over it. So, he might have to admit that he misunderstood or "misspoke".

[gulliver]

46. Wrong. It was clearly a lie. Learn the definition. Raise your standards.

Palin intended to convey a false impression. Don't be afraid to say the word "lie." Even McCain apparently was deceived.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/lie

1. a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.
2. something intended or serving to convey a false impression; imposture: His flashy car was a lie that deceived no one.
3. an inaccurate or false statement.

[L. Coyote]

48. But, is this the issue we want to run on? NO, NO, NO, NO!

She did not lie. She did put the aircraft for sale on eBay!
If you get one freeper to think that's a lie, you've wasted your time. It won't change their vote.

[gulliver]

50. Tell mama to lock her keyboard.

[L. Coyote]

47. McCain: TWO LIES in one sentence. AND two grammatical errors!

On edit. Fixing my grammatical errors :rofl:

"She took the luxury jet that was acquired by her predecessor and sold it on eBay and made a profit!"

Dear John,

It's ""She took the luxury jet acquired by her predecessor, sold it on eBay, and made a profit!"

WTF, did cheating land you at the bottom of your class?

[dysfunctional press]

2. agreed...people need to let go of this story- it's not one.

nt

[itsrobert]

9. Looks like you need to get caught up

John McCain, "she sold the plane on ebay, for a profit"


In front of Ms Palin.

Get your facts straight.

[dysfunctional press]

21. that's mccain's lie then.

nt

[ddeclue]

26. Nope it WAS her lie..now they BOTH own it. n/t

[itsrobert]

4. John McCain lied than

he said at a rally today, "she sold the plane on ebay, for a profit"

She did not correct him at that time.

It's deception and less than honest?

What do you got to say now?????????????????????????/

[cherokeeprogressive]

7. What do I got to say?

It's Mcain's lie then. Not Palin's.

Do you need further explanation?

[itsrobert]

11. Yes

Do you? He lied in front of Ms Palin. She did not correct him.

[cherokeeprogressive]

14. I didn't see the rally.

If you say that's what he said, then he lied. If your argument is that because she didn't immediately correct him in front of the world, then I guess she's a liar. Truce. You are right, I was wrong.

I lost a job once for correcting my boss in front of a business associate. I was right. He was wrong. Unemployment benefits for me...

[ddeclue]

16. he can't really "fire" her...

a) The State of Alaska pays her actual salary.

b) The REPUBLICAN PARTY nominated and voted her as their Veep candidate. Therefore, John McCain can't simply fire her like she was some cabinet official that serves at the pleasure of the President (or nominee in this case.) Legally, he's stuck with her now, the best he can do is politely ask her to withdraw - but she doesn't have to do so since the party made the final decision on the matter.

Doug D.

[ddeclue]

13. Any statement made in a deliberate attempt to deceive is a LIE.

It is clear to everyone that the implication was that she sold it. She FAILED to correct the record by pointing that she tried but FAILED to sell the plane on ebay.

That is known as a LIE OF OMISSION.

The key moral feature of a lie is the intent to deceive. Clearly Governor Palin intended to deceive:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie

"Lying by omission

One lies by omission by omitting an important fact, deliberately leaving another person with a misconception. Lying by omission includes failures to correct pre-existing misconceptions. A husband may tell his wife he was out at a store, which is true, but lie by omitting the fact that he also visited his mistress. This type of lie is disputed as to whether or not is in fact a lie. In most cases the person has not directly denied a truth, but merely ommitted some part of what transpired."

[DontTreadOnMe]

10. The Ebay listing appeared 4 times without a sale

They McCain campaign is now claiming that a group who eventually
bought the plane was a bidder, but it did not even come close to the
starting price. The plane sold for under the starting price listed on Ebay...
and there was a large LOSS. There was not a PROFIT on the plane.
Why would anyone buy a USED plane for more than they could go buy a new one.

[Bluenorthwest]

52. Wrong!

I heard John McCain say she had SOLD it on e-BAy, he waited for applause to die down and added 'and she made a profit.'
What do you call that? He said she sold it on e-bay for a profit. Said it. On TV. Next!

[BloodOfPatriots]

53. I agree

[kansasblue]

62. McCain (with her at his side) side 'she SOLD it on ebay and made a profit' nt

[eleny]

8. Kicked & Recommended

:kick:

[dkofos]

19. Get used to it. Every word that comes out of her mouth is a lie.

And she kills puppies!!

[juajen]

41. She said, and I repeat, "I put it on ebay. I realized when she said it

that there was a reason why she said that. The sale details were reported earlier, much earlier, and this was not, I repeat, NOT her fault.

Get her honestly, or not at all.

[ddeclue]

44. She lied by omission. IF your intent is to deceive then you've lied. n/t

[Bluenorthwest]

60. For what it's worth

Palin claims to be a devout practioner of a religon that clearly demand that it's adherents speak in clear terms, never ommitting or lying by implication. "Let your yes be yes, and your no be no" and many other teachings say that one can not so much as allow a lie to stand when one knows it is a lie.
Now Palin claims that her religion is so important that her entire life revloves around it, her political positions are dictated by it. Her so called faith leads her to very activey oppose the liberty and freedom of others. And yet she herself does not practice even the most basic ethics of that faith, the principles so essential that even small children know them.
So that is a fact. If she's a Christian, she is not supposed to stand and take the glory from McCain's lie, not by any strectch of the text of the New Testament. When people want to impose their dogma upon others, I expect them to at least live by it themselves.
If she follows the faith she claims to follow, she would have made sure a correction was forthcoming at once. According to her faith, by not doing so and taking the benefit of the lie, she was in fact lying. Those are her rules.

[L. Coyote]

45. No, she did what she said. McCain LIED twice in one sentence though!

McCain said she sold it on eBay for a profit.

A broker sold it after it did not sell on eBay for $600,000.00 less than Alaska paid.

It sold for $300,000.00 less than the broker was seeking.
And, it sold to a Republican millionaire from Arlington Texas, Larry Reynolds.

------------------------------------
From: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3472351&mesg_id=3472625

Who is Larry Reynolds?

A Larry Reynolds of Arlington Texas has worked for the Reynolds trust.
REYNOLDS, LARRY ARLINGTON, TX 76015 of the THE REYNOLDS TRUST occupation CONSULTANT
gave $300 on 12/11/2001 to the SAFARI CLUB INTERNATIONAL PAC

This PAC funneling money to Don Young, Ted Stevens, George Bush, Conrad Burns, Tom Delay, Randy Cunningham, Doolittle, Feeney, Bilbray, Pombo, Renzi, Hayworth, Lott, Issa, Talent ($41,206 in '06), Craig ....

Safari Club International
TUCSON, AZ 85745

BUSH, GEORGE W  President	Republican	DC  	--	G	$10,000	05/12/2004
BUSH, GEORGE W 	President	Republican	DC 	--	G	$10,000	09/03/2004
BUSH, GEORGE W 	President	Republican	DC 	--	G	$982	09/03/2004
BUSH, GEORGE W 	President	Republican	DC 	--	G	$3,630	10/14/2004
BUSH, GEORGE W 	President	Republican	DC 	--	G	$15,648	10/19/2004
BUSH, GEORGE W 	President	Republican	DC 	--	G	$5,085	10/29/2004
BUSH, GEORGE W 	President	Republican	DC 	--	P	$5,000	01/20/2004
BUSH, GEORGE W 	President	Republican	DC 	--	G	$10,000	03/14/2004

STEVENS, THEODORE F (TED)   	Senate	Republican	AK  	--	P	$2,000	02/26/2008

YOUNG, DONALD E   	House of Reps	Republican	AK  	00	P	  $595	02/27/2008
YOUNG, DONALD E 	House of Reps	Republican	AK 	00	G	$2,000	04/11/2008
YOUNG, DONALD E 	House of Reps	Republican	AK 	00	G	  $501	04/25/2008
YOUNG, DONALD E 	House of Reps	Republican	AK 	00	P	$2,000	01/25/2007
YOUNG, DONALD E 	House of Reps	Republican	AK 	00	P	$2,000	05/22/2007
YOUNG, DONALD E   	House of Reps	Republican	AK  	00	P	$1,500	02/18/2005
YOUNG, DONALD E 	House of Reps	Republican	AK 	00	P	$2,000	01/21/2006
YOUNG, DONALD E 	House of Reps	Republican	AK 	00	P	  $496	03/31/2006
YOUNG, DONALD E 	House of Reps	Republican	AK 	00	P	$1,000	01/24/2004
YOUNG, DONALD E   	House of Reps	Republican	AK  	00	P	$1,000	02/01/2003
YOUNG, DONALD E   	House of Reps	Republican	AK  	00	P	$1,500	03/24/2002
YOUNG, DONALD E 	House of Reps	Republican	AK 	00	P	$2,000	01/12/2001
YOUNG, DONALD E         House of Reps	Republican	AK  	00	P	$1,000	03/01/1999
YOUNG, DONALD E        	House of Reps	Republican	AK 	00	P	$1,000	03/03/1999
YOUNG, DONALD E        	House of Reps	Republican	AK 	00	P	$2,000	07/28/1999
YOUNG, DONALD E        	House of Reps	Republican	AK 	00	G	$1,000	02/04/2000
YOUNG, DONALD E        	House of Reps	Republican	AK 	00	P	$1,000	02/04/2000

==================
August 25, 2007 - http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/25/us/25jet.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1220666576-hvXnW7qiCIV3K+nZkbZLcw

.... the jet that came to symbolize the troubles of the former Alaska governor Frank H. Murkowski has landed with a new owner.

A businessman from Valdez, Alaska, Larry Reynolds, paid $2.1 million this week for the state-owned Westwind II ....

Mr. Murkowski’s office tried to obtain money from the Homeland Security Department to buy the jet, saying it would help “defend, deter or defeat opposition forces.” He was denied. ...

Mr. Reynolds learned of the plane through Speaker John L. Harris, Republican of Valdez, Mr. Spencer said. ..........

=================
Palin claim on eBay plane sale doesn't fly
Jason George and Andrew Zajac | Chicago Tribune correspondents
Sept. 5, 2008 - http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-palin_planesep05,0,3470364.story

Palin's statement implied the plane was sold through the online auction site revered for empowering millions of small entrepreneurs, and Palin's spokeswoman insisted Thursday that the transaction occurred. But the plane failed to sell on eBay.

Instead, the 23-year-old 10-seat Westwind II was sold in August 2007 for $2.1 million to a Valdez, Alaska, entrepreneur; that's about $300,000 less than a broker's asking price, according to news accounts......

[BigAnth]

56. Has Palin not stated publicly that she "sold it at a profit"? This is a lie.

[dems_rightnow]

59. I haven't seen where she said that.

I know McCain has said that.

[aikoaiko]

57. Context: Former eBay chief Meg Whitman spoke before Palin that night

Speakers often like to make references to previous speakers.

But carry on with the indignation.

[nini]

58. Non issue

She put the plane on EBAY with intent to sell. Did you really want a full explanation during her BS snippets of what she's done?

There's so much more to go after her on that making a big deal on her choice of words and limited explanation is surely not worth it.

Go after her troopergate, bridge pork, and affiliation with AIS - that's the stuff that will hurt her.

[L. Coyote]

61. SURPRISE, SURPRISE: Palin: Democrats spreading misinformation and lies (AP)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3471313