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mrcheerful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 01:52 PM
Original message
How do you respond to something like this?
Edited on Thu Jan-25-07 02:42 PM by mrcheerful
In their fantasy world, they open up a banking account and save money. They sacrifice buying game systems, computers and high end electronics. By changing their spending habits, they accumulate a savings account that in a few years that is enough for the downpayment on a house. They start to educate themselves by taking classes here and there. Five years down the road, they have a greater income, savings and equity in a house.

What a fantasy world they must live in to think that people can actually do this. The NERVE. What's wrong with these people to think that they can do for themselves and better themselves. UGH.

Ok. this was his answer to the question about families packing up and moving to a better economic area. The they he speaks of are those under employed or unemployed. Hope that helps. Sorry for the confusion everyone, this is a person I have had a war of words with for the last 4 years. Its really amazing that him and 3 others can live in the same area and not see how bad things are. High crime rate = damn blacks to lazy to work. No medical coverage = your just buying the high end toys. Disabled = theres no need for programs, make families responsible for them.
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Rosemary2205 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. Is this writer being sarcastic?
I'm not sure I get it.
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monmouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Me neither. Who??
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mrcheerful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Nope, this guy is dead serious, he actually believes that people choose to work at 7/11 type
jobs. Every time he posts its about choice, people choose to be poor, people choose not to educate themselves. People want a free hand out from the government so they can live high off the welfare dollar. He once stated that welfare people owned new cars because he seen a person get out of a new caddy and used food stamps to pay for lobsters and steak. He also claims to be anti government and wants welfare to be turned over to the church who will dole out the benefits to those who really need it. He is also against Social security and disability, because family should support those to old or injured to work.
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flamin lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. If he witnesed welfare fraud and didn't report it he is guilty of a
felony. Tell him that you plan to report him to the FBI and see if he changes his story.
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Rosemary2205 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Ya, no kidding!
Not only that but food stamps can't be used in restaurants. If he saw that and didn't report the user or the restaurant.............. well you know.
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Kelly Rupert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
2. Where are you going with this? n/t
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mrcheerful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. This guy goes on rants about the poor, blacks etc etc with the age old they choose to be in this
mess. It's a local area blog where the whole city was built on GM jobs. Since the 1980's its been on the slow path of destruction, very few jobs and none that will pay as well as GM did. I just want to get one good shot in before he gets me kicked out of the blog.
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
4. Who's "they?"
Context, please.
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EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
5. He is saying it is becoming a fantasy to be able to achieve the so
called American Dream everyone has been told about or heard.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
6. Ummmmm, Uddah Wah Now? No Idea What Your Premise Is.
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Orangepeel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
8. I don't understand it either
But in whomever's fantasy world this is, I sincerely hope they don't have a medical crisis that wipes out their savings and equity, have their job outsourced, become the victim of identity theft, have their city destroyed by a hurricane, or suffer any of the myriad other problems that can ruin the best laid plans of us all.
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FredScuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
9. My guess
I think the OP is quoting some diatribe against the poor....that they're more interested in "buying game systems, computers and high-end electronics" than saving their money like good little Americans. The writer goes on the blame them for not using their savings to buy a house and go back to school. Not like they have children to feed on declining wages, health care not covered by their employer, predatory lending and credit companies exploiting them....they're good for nothing louts buying Playstations and Cadillacs! :sarcasm:

This oft-trotted out smear on the poor is revolting.
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mrcheerful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Bingo
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FredScuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. You probably want to make that clear in the OP
Lest anyone think these are your words.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. Are you talking about actual poor people?
Because I have known lots of poor people, and a part of their problem is that they do not have the discipline to save and generally do not seem to have goals, like home ownership. Part of the reason for my siblings prosperity is because they were DINKS for so long after marriage. Their first child was born at age 27, 27, and 28 for my two sisters and brother.

So, yeah, I think people would benefit from some classes in life planning and finances. The difference is that the middle and upper classes, especially the latter, can get away with the same self-indulgence and often profits from eploiting the foolishness of others.
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FredScuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. "discipline to save"
Edited on Thu Jan-25-07 03:23 PM by FredScuttle
So what you're saying is poor people should open IRAs instead of feeding their kids, or taking them to the dentist, or buying them clothes for school.

I don't like to make generalizations about poor people, but I know that when I was poor, I had a goal - not being poor. I was lucky that I had opportunities to get educated and improve my employment through the years. I know that not everyone has the opportunities I had. Therefore, I will never point my finger at the working poor and lecture them about what they should be doing to "better themselves"...that, to me, is the height of arrogance.
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mrcheerful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Thank you, that I can use, the guy who wrote that mess is a true believer
that everyone has the same opportunities as he had because Reagan said so. He takes none of lifes realities into account, his health insurance will cover all his or his kids illnesses. I get so frustrated with him I get to where I can't think things out. He talks about people complaining, then complains Gov. Granholm hasn't brought enough jobs into Michigan, then says theres plenty of high paying jobs one only has to ask and they are in like Flint. No wonder his wife left him with his kids and took off with another man.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. IRAs are a little bit too long term
Since I am a poor person, I am not sure I have the same arrogance with my advice. Savings, however, seem essential to me. That's how you can afford that emergency visit to the doctor.

To me, it seems just as arrogant to refuse to listen to any advice. It is not for casting blame or aspersions. It's for empowerment. Knowledge is power and so is hope.

Are we spoiled children who do not want to listen to our parents? "Just shut up and give me the money dad."
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
10. I respond like everyone else. By asking for clarification.
Either this is a whiney rant implying that people can't save and move up, or this is someone trying to parody someone with said whiney rant.

If it's the former, it's dumb. Of course people can better their long-term living conditions by sacrificing and saving, as long as they don't get hit by disaster and as long as they are employable.

If it's the latter, it's even dumber, since it's setting up a strawman--probably a fantasy about what a conservative thinks liberals say.

But I can't tell from reading it.
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
13. Had an encounter with a fundie that actually thought that people chose to be unemployed
He was a retired manager who was totally out of touch.
He told me that anyone who was unemployed in America today was an asshole. I asked him when the last time he went looking for a job. It shut him up.
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mrcheerful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. I asked him the same thing and he told me that all I needed to do was take a
course in writting computer programs and I would start raking in the dough. He had a fit because I am disabled and am on SS-DI and SSI. He also plays doctor by telling me that theres nothing wrong with me except I'm to lazy to go back to school.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. I have known some of those
when the satellite dish business was still viable that factory was always hiring. Then it fell apart and laid half of us all. But I knew one guy whose life ambition was to get on disability. He used to complain about not having any money. I told him the satellite place was hiring. His reply "I really don't wanna work there." My reply "Do you think I want to work there?" I also saw people quit there jobs there without any notification, meaning they apparently did not have another job waiting, but were gonna drift for a while. When I was on unemployment, I did not seriously look for a job. For example, I applied for a job at a place that was about a 45 minute drive away. They advertised 'competetive wages' and were right next to my former employer whose starting pay was $11 an hour. I put $10 for my expected wage and they never called me. I called them and they said they only paid $8.50. So, admittedly, I did not try very hard to work there. Nor did I apply at the local temp place until well into my term. Just as well, since they had nothing locally. The one they offered was about an hour commute, and six days a week. Again for about $8 an hour.
So, yeah, I legally rode my unemployment for as long as I could, and it paid off as I landed a good paying job with good benefits and opportunities.

My renters, otoh, one lost his job because he failed a drug test, and the other was living decently on AFDC and HUD. I have seen other people on assistance, buying new Trek bikes, and living in their own apartment, when they had parents who could help them. Also since they were fundies they were popping out babies like there was a shortage of them or something, and their first one came about because they did not want to use birth control because that would encourage the pre-marital sex that they engaged in anyway. So, again, they created some of their own problems.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
15. $40,000 downpayment
From a $30,000 salary, while paying off $20,000 in student loans.

Right. And that isn't even the poor.

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