If they steal the election again, what then?

[Philosoraptor]

Sorry about the pessimism, but, you know how they are.

[elshiva]

1. Yes, they probably are going to do that...

buffy

[SammyWinstonJack]

51. Probably? I'd bet on it.

And once again, nothing will be done about it, election fraud, that is.

[grannie4peace]

2. i'll pack up & leave

[Indenturedebtor]

3. Ditto. Would like to anyway but that would accelerate things for me n/t

[grannie4peace]

4. i wonder if its hard to immigrate to canada

[tavalon]

6. They have a point system to decide if you are acceptable to them,

if you don't make it by the point system, you need to prove a certain amount of savings. I've been looking into it recently. Bet you can't guess why?

[grannie4peace]

18. :):):) yes, i can :):):)

[KillCapitalism]

61. Yeah, Canada is pretty much off-limits unless...

you are VERY highly skilled, I'm talking like a PhD in a field with high demand, or unless you have at least six figures in the bank.

[tavalon]

63. Or a nurse,

as they have a shortage as well. That one aspect put me over the top in points. It's being able to take my family with me that will take some money in the bank.

[KillCapitalism]

65. Yeah they denied a guy I know.

I thought he would have got in, he has an MS in Chemistry, has a teaching certificate & teaches HS chem. He also had a good amount of money in savings that his dad left him, but it wasn't quite near $100K.

[deaniac21]

56. It is if it's in January.

[Philosoraptor]

12. I want the republican assholes to pack up and leave my country.

[shadowknows69]

29. exactly

Why should we have to run?

[iamahaingttta]

49. Don't leave! Get Angry...

Sweetie and I were talking about this last night.
I told her that if the election were clearly stolen, I would be out in the streets throwing bricks.
If they steal it, we HAVE TO DESTROY THEM, by whatever means necessary.

In the long-run, that means we have to stop borrowing their money to buy crap that we don't need anyway and then paying that money back with interest. That is how the rich get richer. We must put them out of business, marginalize them, and make certain that there is no place in polite society where they can show their faces.

In the short run, we have to make certain that they understand that we will be ungovernable. I am, and I know many other normal, average citizens who are willing to go to jail for a long time to make that point...

[norepubsin08]

60. Exactly what I have been saying

for 8 years!!!

[elleng]

62. DON'T ACCEPT IT

as someones did.

[tavalon]

84. They've done it twice in the Presidential election

and while there were protests, nothing happened. I've been angry for too many years now.

[mahina]

5. I think we have to understand that they will try, and not be willing to allow it this time.

The campaign is looking for local leadership across the country. The efforts to a) sign up new voters and b) organize precincts WILL prevent another theft.

It will take a little work. It will take a little time, but does not have to take that much. Ask for help. DU has an amazing, unprecedented outreach to all our states, and to the most committed. We have an obligation to do what we can to prevent another theft.

As Barack said when asked what he will do to prevent another theft, he said, "I'm going to whoop em." The turnout has to be higher than the caucuses and primaries. We have to manage the expectations in our communities so that they will be EXCITED to stay. Ask them to bring cookies for others and walk them down the line. Organize to bring water. We have to win this. We just absolutely can not afford to lose.

As our dear Dennis Kucinich said last night, "WAKE UP AMERICA"!!

(I trust you will forgive my cappish emphasis.)

[Doug.Goodall]

7. We will have the House. We will have the Senate. The Republicans won't get any legislation passed.

If the Republicans steal the White House this election, they will feel like a bump on a log, because the Democrats in Congress will not cooperate at all.

[nightrain]

8. yes, I've been concerned about the probable stealing of

elections again too. But, even if Dems have a majority (or a super majority) with a Repub President, they still have found ways to destroy progressive policies--calling contraception abortion, weakening Clean Air and Water, messing with Endangered Species, etc. I think that as long as private corporations owned by Repubs are counting the votes then stealing elections is quite likely and damn scary.

[mwb970]

9. Republicans get everything they want, even as a minority.

It is amazing to me how the citizens of this country put up with egregious mismanagement by Republicans for years, then continue allowing them to call the shots even with Democratic majorities in both houses of Congress.

It's like the old saw about being considered "black" if you have one drop of African-American blood. I swear, if there was only one Republican jerk left in Congress (probably Ted Stevens) the Dems would still buckle and give him everything he wants.

[Doug.Goodall]

74. I think it is the Republicans who are owned by the private corporations

The Republicans seem to have an unwritten law:
Money Talks

[grannie4peace]

19. yeah, but what will happen to our country while we tug- of -war with them?

[dixiegrrrrl]

34. Sorry to burst your bubble

pls. remember that it is the majority of Democrats, led by the quisling Speaker of the House, that has passed major un-democratic bills, or has refused to act in defense of our country, our civil rights, etc.
With Dems like these, who needs Republicans????

[emulatorloo]

53. Check the numbers in the Senate -- dem majority is RAZOR thin, and includes Lieberman

We need 60 Democrats in the Senate to overwhelm the Republicans.

[bvar22]

78. The Republicans NEVER needed a 60 seat majority...

...to overwhelm the Democrats.

[samsingh]

46. exactly.

and Democrats appear to be getting spines.

remove the news licences from the propoganda arms like Fox and ABC.
stop funding for insane repug ideas

[bvar22]

54. Thats what the Democrats campaigned on for 2006....

We have the House and Senate now...and the Republicans are getting pretty much everything they want.

Unrestricted money to keep the wars going

further erosion of our civil and constitutional protections

No prosecution, no penalty, no accountability for anyone in their administration...a completely FREE PASS.

[Doug.Goodall]

75. 2006 was just a start, Now we need to elect DEMOCRATS and not just politicians.

Congress appears to be infested with a class of people who all have the same motive, that is advancement of themselves at the expense of the American Citizens.

We need real Democrats who understand that they work for us, and we do not work for them.

I will not advocate 'term limits' but I will go so far as to advocate some type of 'term encouragement'.

It will always be to our advantage to have the maximum number of D's in Congress and the minimum number of R's

[C_U_L8R]

10. THen Grover Norquist's dream will have come true

and we all better know how to swim.

Oh and then there's Bomb Bomb

[no_hypocrisy]

11. I don't think we'll repeat 2000 and 2004 and retreat.

1. Lawsuits, lawsuits, lawsuits. Tie up the courts.

2. Both Houses of Congress will (I hope) have comfortable majorities and get rid of the rigged voting machines. And federal legislation allowing more voters access to the polls. And will tie up the executive branch indefinitely as far as nominees for judgeships esp. the Supreme Court, treaties, legislation, funding for the war, AND they will make their case to the American people every step of the way. They have to. They will have to educate the public via the Founders if necessary to get back on track.

[liberal N proud]

13. We the people need to take to the streets

And take it back!

[sandyj999]

17. I couldn't agree more. n/t

[bdamomma]

30. that will be the only way.

WE THE PEOPLE (there are more of us than them)

[Blue Meany]

37. General Strike

Don't take to the streets. Stay home and demonstrate how little support McCain has and that he must have lost the election.

[liberal N proud]

42. If McCain gets in the office we will all be at home anyway

without jobs, who will be able to go anywhere or spend money?

It will take more than a strike to take these criminals out, they would just sit back and send whats left of our jobs to China and India.

[lonestarnot]

80. Drastic measures for sure! Not going to tolerate it this time! NOT NOT NOT

[Serial Mom]

14. an·ar·chy

Sometimes I think when the media keeps it close like this, it would be easier to steal again!

We MUST get out voters in HUGE numbers so it cannot look even close - no chance to fiddle with numbers as easily!

[Vinca]

15. Call me a Canadian. nt

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[a kennedy]

20. IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN AGAIN.....

now get out there and do something about it!!

[HughBeaumont]

21. If McClown gets (s)elected, there's going to be rioting.

There's going to be unrest.

There may even be a mild civil war between the dolts who voted for this dickhead and those who want to move away from that kind of regressiveness.

Come January 20th, I'll be in D.C. either rioting or celebrating.

Up to you, America. Up to you.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/HughBeaumont/...

[ProdigalJunkMail]

22. for anything significant to happen...

you would need proof (I mean court-room ready proof) of widespread vote manipulation/fraud/theft/tampering. anything less and it is all conjecture and, to be honest, a good number of people will see it a sour-grapes without that proof and it will hurt the Democratic Party.

sP

[Wednesdays]

24. And therein lies the rub...

The M$M will blare "proof" 24/7 that McSame "won" the election, and that the Democrats are all whiners. And because TV say so, just about everyone will go along with those "official" results.

Perhaps sometime down the road there'll be absolute proof that Obama really did win the election, after all. But by that time it'll be too late to do anything about it.

Sound familiar?

[ProdigalJunkMail]

25. agreed...

and the only way people (the majority of them in this country) will accept that an election was stolen is to have it in a courtroom with a conviction...otherwise, yer jus' pissin' in the wind...

sP

[Wednesdays]

36. Courtroom...courtroom...hmm...

I'm remembering something about a courtroom. 2000. Bush vs. Gore.

See how well that turned out?

[ProdigalJunkMail]

48. that wasn't about fraud...

and no evidence was introduced about that. that case was about stopping the vote count... i am talking about evidence that the vote was tampered with that will stand up in a court of law and someone (or several someones) go to prison over it...THAT would get attention...

sP

[Ysabel]

50. yeah but what if tv is like the new bread of the 21st century...?

and suddenly come january all the tv sets go blank and so nobody sees the stolen election this time around all they know is they have no more tv and then there is rioting in the streets...?

- hell i dunno / who knows...

special note on bread and television: (refer to french revolution)...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

p.s. er um drat / revolution foiled again / nevermind / i'm half asleep (i recall now that the election is in november)...

[readmoreoften]

70. Um. If the Democratic party loses this election. It's over. Period.

If we lose an election when the other party's leading man has an approval rating in the 20s and the vice-pres has an approval rating at NINE PERCENT, and the fellow they're running doesn't even have the support of their fundamentalist bloc and the dittoheads...

Well then there are 4 possibilities:

1) The Democratic Party has little appeal because Americans are inherently warmongering, paranoid, racist, sexist homophobes who hate working people even when they themselves are working people. If this is the case, then we are living under a mob tyranny and 'democracy' can't solve the problem.

2) The Democratic Party has little appeal because it fails to stand up to and correctly frame unpopular right-wing policies like anti-worker legislation, anti-choice, homophobic hate, and imperialist fantasies. If this is the case, then the Democratic Party must clearly stand for something, even if it is risky. If it is unable because of campaign financing, blackmail, or fear of retaliation from industry, then we are living under plutocratic tyranny and the Democratic party is complicit either intentionally or through its cowardice.

3) The Democratic Party has little appeal because it has been smeared without end through a 24-hour news cycle owned by its plutocratic enemies as well as careful neurolinguistic programming. Unfortunately, this would mean that the Democratic Party is saturated as a term and unless the wealthy enemies can be de-funded (which quite obviously they cannot or it would've been done) the Democratic Party cannot hope to win...ever. If this is the case then no party that represents the interest of common people, be it Democrats or other, will ever be able to "win" an election, and thus we are living under a dictatorship of the plutocracy.

4) The Democratic Party DOES have appeal, despite the fact that it is smeared without end by violent plutocrats, and the American people are voting for them, but there is voter fraud covered by false or rationalizing media stories attributing Democratic losses to "racist/homophobic Americans." If this is the case then they are living under a plutocratic dictatorship that is also hoping to instigate social hatreds among the masses. Most likely to take more power.

[UnitedVoters]

23. Actually they probably will try & may succeed. Very real threat.

Another stolen one is a very real threat. There are many things you can do:

EDUCATE YOURSELF. See these three great movies.
Uncounted.
http://www.uncountedthemovie.com /
Stealing America Vote By Vote.
http://www.stealingamericathemovie.org /
Free For All.
http://www.freeforall.tv /

Get involved and support an election reform organization at the state or local level.

Become a pollworker.

Spread the word about this, and be ready to take to the streets for peaceful demonstrations starting November 5 and keep it up until we get reform.

[Wednesdays]

26. If they do steal it, not enough people will know about it to start rioting

See my response #24.

[Yellow Horse]

27. WAKE UP AMERICA! WAKE UP AMERICA! Spread the word to everyone you know. This is a threat!

Every local and state Dem party should be aware that this election can and maybe will be stolen. Swell the Obama support NOW to massive numbers. BE LOUD AND PROUD -- now -- because MSM is already doing their darndest to lay the groundwok for a 'legitimate' McCain win.

In November GET EVERY DEM OUT TO VOTE, and then be ready to protest.

And even if Obama wins, don't give up on election reform because sooner or later stealing will happen again.


Kick and Recommend this thread!

[bdamomma]

41. it is a threat, cause this madman mc cain won't think

twice about starting WW3 with the neo cons help. This man cannot relate to the American people.

[mmonk]

28. If McCain is the next unitary executive, I will start looking

at how to get my sons a life in a modern free democracy. For myself, it doesn't matter so much but I have no intention of leaving this earth with them living in a closed country run on propaganda with their civil rights up in the air.

[bdamomma]

32. we have to think about giving our children a better life

we had it, so they deserve it also, the neo cons need their asses handed to them, think about how much disdain they have for the American people people like Cheney, Addington, Yoo, Bush, McCain, Condi, they have treated the American people like dirt, now is the time to push them back hard.

[mmonk]

40. That's what I've been doing but sometimes our representatives

have turned a deaf ear (I know first hand). I will never quit fighting but I can't wait forever concerning my kids' future.

[KharmaTrain]

31. Take A Friend To Vote...

Preferably a first-time voter. In numbers, the election can't be stolen.

A couple things are working against the GOOP this year. Ohio is one...Blackwell is gone and so will be the big delays at voting booths in Cleveland...with Democrats doing the statewide counting. There are also Democrats in control in "swing states" such as Colorado, New Mexico, Iowa and Virginia.

More important is that the election this year will be fought in the GOOPs backyard...I don't see Gramps winning any of the "Kerry" states of 2004...the key elections will be in states the GOOP used to think were theirs...and they'll be hard-pressed to hold onto what they have...there's too many places where the party is weak.

There's already a problem of the GOOP trying to disenfranchise voters, but I'm already seeing the Obama campaign quietly fighting back with both voter education and registration drives as well as putting a squadron of lawyers on the ground (I've heard from several acquaintances who will be heading to Ohio and Florida for the election) that will call out voter fraud if and where they see it.

Yes, the election can be "stolen" if we become complacent and think this thing's in the bag. If we get out and make sure the large number of newly registered Democrats get to the polls, the election won't be close enough to be stolen.

[UnitedVoters]

33. Get every Dem to check their voter registration soon. Make sure that you haven't been purged.

Hundreds of thousands of legitimate voters HAVE been purged this year in many states. Another benefit of the Nay-Abramoff inspired Help America Vote Act.

Write or visit your County Election Office and check those voter registrations now through the last day to register. Then, if anyone is denied a regular vote because they are not in the poll book, you can challenge and make sure their provisional ballot is counted.

If you find that you have been purged and it is before the deadline for registration RE-REGISTER and FOLLOW UP TO MAKE SURE IT WENT THROUGH.

Remember Katherine Harris purged about 100,000 mostly Dem voters in Florida in 2000. Same type of thing happened in 2004 in lots of states. Don't let it happen again. DON'T LET IT HAPPEN TO YOU.

[Stevepol]

35. What will happen? Just what happened in 02, 04, & 06.

Anybody who suggests that the exit poll-machine read-out discrepancy suggests fraud will be marginalized, scoffed at, called a conspiracy nut, etc.

Exit polls will be discredited further and so-called experts on exit polls will say that they just can't be trusted to give an accurate picture of how the people as a whole voted. To support this conjecture, so-called experts will come up with an array of explanations for why the exit polls are so far wrong. E.g. the Reluctant Republican Responder theory, meaning that Republicans just don't respond to pollers to the same degree as Democratics, meaning Republicans are more independent minded and intelligent. Or Democrats tend to vote in different time slots from Repubs so you can't trust the early exit polls (when the actual poll is used) but instead need to look at the exit polls after they've re-calibrated to fit the results. Or ---------------- (Fill in the blank).

MSM anchors and pundits and reporters will make snide remarks intended to suggest that anybody who fusses about statistics is in league with all the other wackos out there who believe in eating insects or not taking baths, etc.

Various other kinds of ad hominem attacks against those who would like to be able to verify elections will be circulated and given wide currency by the MSM.

And this is just for starters.

Oh and the Democrats with the most visibility will forget all about it in a few weeks and do nothing at all about it before the next election cycle rolls around.

[kster]

43. They are already selling the reason Obama will lose

it will be "that small percent of pissed off Clinton supporters" we are already buying into it, all they have to do is sell it till election day and the majority of Americans will accept it as truth, effectively shutting down any rioting in the streets.

My two cents.

[RufusTFirefly]

45. Once the top of the ticket throws in the towel, we're screwed. Again.

At least Gore put up a fight. Kerry folded like a cheap umbrella, leaving those who still contested the election looking like a bunch of crackpots.

[Stevepol]

59. Here's an interesting DU posting that suggests a way to bring the issue front and center

Get the candidates to sign a pledge to contest their election if there is good evidence of hanky panky.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[Fumesucker]

47. I agree with you.. Basically _nothing_ will happen. n/t

[Truth4Justice]

68. You are correct, unfortunately. " Nothing to see here folks; go on home now before we Taze you"

[lonestarnot]

82. You are wrong!

[Kokonoe]

38. Just remember they steal every time.

This year will not be different.

[marmar]

39. Vive la revolution!

[bdamomma]

44. if mc cain gets in it will be the end of everything

this man can't see anything going wrong in the US now that is scary.

[OneBlueSky]

52. probably nothing . . . here's why . . .

at some point on election night, it will become obvious that there are election problems in one or more states . . . people will report voting machines that switch their votes, some will not be allowed to vote, and every other manner of election fraud that we've seen in the past will be evident in one way or another . . .

the problem, of course, will be proving that the election results in those states have been rigged . . . investigating the problems will take time, money, and political will . . . while the will and the money are being sought to contest the results, those "elected" will be sworn in and begin their terms of office . . .

the investigations (if there are any) will drag on for months and even years . . . while some in Congress will be hopping mad and determined to "do something," most will be too busy raising money for their next campaigns to bother . . . and while some malfeasance will be found, there won't be enough "conclusive" proof to overturn the results . . .

the best we'll be able to hope for is a definitive study of the stolen election a decade or more down the road that will make for interesting historical reading . . . but as far as preventing election fraud or doing something about it when it's evident -- well, ain't gonna happen . . .

elections in this country are no longer in the hands of the voters . . . they are in the hands of the Republican corporations that developed and control electronic voting machines without even the very same safeguards they have on their ATMs . . . until that changes, we're going to keep "electing" Republicans, particularly to the presidency because . . .

"It's not who votes that counts; it's who counts the votes!" . . .

[Stern21]

55. If they do? I'm outta here.

Stick a fork in it, it's done.

[Dukkha]

57. form my own cell

[dembotoz]

58. like the from in a pan of water on the stove

we will probably just sit there and get cooked.

we will piss
we will moan

unless there is a spark
unless there is an event to rally around
if the republican do something stupid

[Truth4Justice]

69. Exactly!! We need to set the flame on somewhere *fast*, else we are all cooked.

[tom_paine]

64. What then? You know what then.

Nothing. Same as before.

This isn't Russia 1989-90, nor Tiennanmen Square 1988.

Nothing. Total national submission.

[Kitty Herder]

66. Then the Repubs will start a nuclear war, ushering in the end of the world,

expecting Jesus to return and save them.

And we'll all be fucked.

[leftofthedial]

67. the "democrats" will blame it on the fringe radical leftists (that is, traditional Democrats)

and will use it as an excuse to give President McSame all the money he needs for the 100-year occupation of Iraq and for the invasion of Iran. they'll also suspend what's left of the Constitution, because McInsane will need full powers to fight the "turrists," my friends.

The "democrats" will then run even farther to the right in future elections, setting the stage for a full-on theofascist state in the US. A few months after the radical-right christists start burning atheists at the stake, a global calamity of some sort--climatic, environmental, nuclear...who knows?--will bring humankind's sad reign on earth to an end.

[readmoreoften]

72. There is no further right. If the Democratic Party doesn't win, it goes to the left or ceases to be

If it goes any further right it will be right of the Republican party. Oh, and, by the way, it'll still lose. So it won't even matter.

What's worse is that if Obama doesn't go to the left after he wins, then America will be as disillusioned with him as they are with the Republicans now and then we'll just get Republicans again 4-8 years from now. One step forward, one step back.

People don't want a Democrat. People want jobs, rational energy policy, and an end to war (that will simultaneously quell their fears of terrorism.) All those solutions are on the left. That's where they exist.

But all this is just a waste of breath, LOTD... If the election is lost, then the election was stolen. To me the question this election will answer is "Do we live in a cooly-managed plutocracy or a plutocracy ruled by a vicious nationalist sect?"

I call them the Nackies. The National Capitalists. This election is Right-Center Populists -vs- the Nackies.

[dysfunctional press]

71. lay back and think of england...

[Heather MC]

73. I am leaving the country, my heart couldn't take, the erge to thow tomatos

@ McPOW everyday, or try to trip him would be too great

[noel711]

76. If they WIN? Time for pitchforks, torches, and rabble..

Hit the streets; Pull out all the old newsvideos of the '60s...

Can't take it no more...

[noel711]

77. OOo, did I really say that?

The FBI's gonna be at the door in 5 minutes..

If you never hear from me again,
pray for me... I'll be down in Guantanamo..
do they have a special cellblock for old '60's radicals?

[bunkerbuster1]

79. "Soap box, ballot box, bullet box," baby!

Some people say.

Yeah, they're probably monitoring, but unless they're gonna go People's Republic of China on our asses, I wouldn't fret too much about what happens at DU.

Mostly the Bushites want us to see high-level examples of intimidation (i.e. Gitmo) and squelch our seditious chatter in fear. Screw that.

[lonestarnot]

81. Error: you can only recommend threads which were started in the past 24 hours

[Phred42]

83. Then you will KNOW, finally, that Democracy of over.

and that 2006 was a fluke.