Question for DU Progressives re Obama's Selection of Biden:

[coalition_unwilling]

Why do you think Obama selected Biden?

My intent in posing the question is not to find out whether a given responder thinks the selection good or bad (although that may come out in your response), but more to plumb the diversity of opinions as to the 'why' of Obama's political calculus.

I have seen opinions, ranging from that of the AP BFEE Shill (Fornier?) that Biden's selection indicates Obama's weakness to that of Brent Budowsky's (on SmirkingChimp.com) that Biden's selection indicates that Obama is truly presidential because he has picked a 'serious' candidate. And various opinions in between.

Myself, I was hoping for Bill Richardson as a way to make further inroads into the formerly-Rethug Southwest while cementing a new generational alliance between Dems and Latinos. (And Richardson has serious foreign policy creds to boot). I am mildly disappointed in the selection of Biden, he of the Bankruptcy Bill, IWR and Clarence Thomas. But I am at a loss to explain to myself satisfacorily 'why' Obama selected Biden.

At my most cynical, I suspect it is that Obama knew he needed a "hatchet man" (a la Spiro Agnew ca. 1968\72) who would allow Obama to stay on the 'high road'. At my most optimistic, I find myself tilting toward the Budowsky school, to wit, that Obama has enough inner strength and fortitude not to feel threatened by the 'gravitas' a Biden brings.

I will try to respond to every serious response, thereby setting up a dialogue on DU that avoids some of the snarkiness I see here often (and am myself occasionally prone to).

On edit: Folks, I have to run right now, but will check back in periodically over the weekend and in the days to follow. Thanks to all who chimed in here and enjoy the Convention next week.

Peace

[madrchsod]

1. international respect from our friends and enemies

joe biden has the experience and the ability to gain respect for our nation


plus he`s going to be baracks pitbull....

[lonestarnot]

4. "Watch 'em!"

:grr:

[coalition_unwilling]

6. I must confess to a certain ignorance about the specifics of

Biden's 30+-year Senatorial caeer. I remember being really mad at Biden for the way he allowed Anita Hill to be savaged by the Rethugs. That set of hearings constituted a sort of epiphany for me vis-a-vis my own behavior and attitudes towards women, as I suspect it did for many men who style themselves 'progressive'.

Then he failed to distinguish himself with principled leadership in the run-up to Iraq-Nam, joining the Gebhardt-Daschle 'Axis of Expedience'.

I would say, based on Obama's Berlin appearance, that Obama hardly needs a VP with experience and ability to gain respect for our nation. But I know that is what the MSM gives Biden props for.

I so hope McAnus picks Romney, if only to watch the 'pitbull' dismember the man who believes in the angel Marony in front of 230 million Americans.

[lonestarnot]

13. Wish I could remember the name of that pitt bull! Damn it!

[MadHound]

2. Personally I think that it is a pick designed to reassure the corporate backers

That their interests will continue be addressed at a top priority. Biden has long been a shill for the financial sector, and thus, like under Clinton, they will reap the rewards.

Politics in this country is no longer a struggle between ideologies, it is more a struggle about which corporate interests are given high priority. Under Clinton, the financial sector and legal sector prospered, while under Bush it is the energy and defense sectors that are the winners. Either way, we the ordinary people continue to be the losers.

[coalition_unwilling]

8. Did not Obama's recent FISA vote reassure corporate backers

that their interests would be addressed as a top priority? By that, I mean giving the nation's largest telecoms a 'get out of jail free' card for their past (alleged) law-breaking would seem to offer the corporatocracy all the reassurance it needs, thereby allowing Obama to use his VP pick to reassure other members of his constituency, like progressives.

As much as I like and admire Dennis Kucinich (he was my first choice in 2008), I think Kucinich's selection would have scuttled Obama's chances. I was simply hoping the VP pick would demonstrate an indicator that things were going to 'change'. Instead, it seems like a tired old parlor game.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

24. Biden- Nay on FISA.

Fwiw.

[hfojvt]

11. Realistically though

is there any pick he could have made where you wouldn't have said that?
Clark, Clinton, Edwards, Kaine, Richardson, Sebelius, or Warner. Which of those would you judge to be "non corporate" even if perhaps none of them are as sold out to the credit card companies, which are located in Delaware, as Biden is.

[coalition_unwilling]

15. Touche. After touting Richardson in my original post, I then

remembered how much I liked and admired Russ Feingold of Wisconsin. (I lived in Madison during his first run in 1992 against that truly Cro-Magnon Bob Kasten. Feingold ran a smart and witty campaign and trounced Kasten in November '92.)

I will say this for Biden. He strikes me as very smart, a quality that has been sorely lacking in our political life for the past 8 years. And the job he did on Giuliani ('Subject-Verb-9/11') took down the Rudester using Rove's tactics (attack them at their point of greatest strength), well that's a good example of that 'smart' quality I refer to.

[hfojvt]

21. I did not think of Feingold either

although I helped to elect the "underdog" to the US Senate in 1996. (I think it was 1996). An inability to think outside the M$M box perhaps, although Feingold was not touted on DU either. DU often cannot break out of the M$M box either.

[coalition_unwilling]

34. Feingold first elected to US Senate in

'92, on Clinton's coatails.

[blm]

3. Biden is great with a hatchet when needed. So, on that score it was necessary, but, I also

believe Obama got to know Biden on the SFRC committee where Joe, too, began to move left the last 2 years in response to the unraveling of Bush's case for Iraq war. By the end of 2006, Kerry had convinced Joe it was time for a withdrawal plan, made easier by Biden's trip to Iraq where he discovered for himself it was time to plan for withdrawal.

I also believe traveling around the country preparing for his own primary run brought Biden back to his progressive roots.

[coalition_unwilling]

12. So, having written that, do you think Biden helps, hurts or is

neutral for Obama's chances in November?

I find myself torn between the siren call of McKinney and the Greens and the hard-nosed, realistic (albeit somewhat cynical) choice of a 'lesser of two evils.' I think in the end I will follow Chomsky's line that even a candidate marginally to the left produces enormously positive effects in the life of the poor and the working class and will vote Obama. But I must say that FISA and now Biden have left a sour taste in my mouth.

[blm]

23. Absolutely HELPS. He can be very cutting to an opponent without concern for his image

which is EXACTLY what the VP needs to do.....and I believe he has come to see this era of Bush as a life and death struggle at this point. He wasn't all there yet, in 2002 and 2004, and didn't come out with guns blazing. But, I believe he will now....100%.

[aquart]

5. Dunno. But he made the decision MONTHS ago.

Because it was a long while back that I saw an Obama spokesperson on Tavis Smiley talking up Biden for Veep.

[hfojvt]

7. Why does this speculation matter?

The noise I heard was that a Richardson pick would really, really offend the Clintonistas. So Richardson was out. Edwards would have been too much like a re-run and also the affair came out. So Edwards is out. Clark got trashed for his POW comments so apparently he was quite vulnerable there. Clinton brings her own negatives as well as the risk of trying to break two glass ceilings at once.

Every pick has its positives and negatives. Warner, Sebelius, Napolitano, etc. Myself, I am pretty happy with the Biden pick as I leaned that way a long time ago.

[coalition_unwilling]

10. So it was Biden through a 'process of elimination' if I'm reading

you correctly? What led to Evan Bayh and Tim Kaine being eliminated? And what would you have thought had Obama picked Feingold? (One prob with Feingold is that you would have two mid-western candidates, but Feingold would have helped Obama lock down his progressive base.)

[hfojvt]

18. that's only the way I am reading it

Feingold was never even discussed, and I am very happy that he did not pick Bayh for whatever reasons he had. Feingold would have been a great choice, considering that Wisconsin, Iowa and Minnesota are all swing states (although I am not sure how Feingold helps in Minnesota and Iowa other than by not being a FIB nor an East or West coast elitist. And he would also help with the Jewish vote presumably. But he probably would be open to the attack that "this ticket is too liberal for America" which the RWNM keeps running up the flagpole and hoping the majority will salute it.

[peacetalksforall]

9. I read something (believe it was on DU) that Biden, Dodd, and McCain are

the three top Senators that the CEO's love.

I will never forget Biden's bankruptcy vote no matter how many good things he might do or say. My impression is he says more than he does - for little people.

I'm going to go back and check his votes on the Patriot Act and some others - especially Gonzales, Mukasey, and more.

But ...... just ignore me - I hold things against people. Edited to say - I hold 'things' against our leaders.

And I add this - I will measure his DLC leanings every step of the way.

[lonestarnot]

14. The BK vote was bad, I agree, but do you want four more years of people subjected to that law?

If so then vote for your McSame. Shit

[Runcible Spoon]

25. I seriously doubt you will see Obama overturn the bankrupcty laws.

I have only seen him make comments about provisions for service members and senior citizens, and those are only tiny steps compared to a total rejection of that piece of filth. That vote was as big, or bigger, than FISA in terms of long term consequences for middle class America. Obama safely voted against it in 2005 but that is certainly not the same thing as promising to reverse it, which he HASN'T.


This is one of those time I would love to be wrong.

[lonestarnot]

26. Oh that's rich. Evaluate the performance before it's begun.

:eyes:

[Runcible Spoon]

27. Isn't that what EVERYONE is doing?

Just because I have a slightly less enthusiastic take on things doesn't mean that I am, by any means, the ONLY one who is taking Obama's own words to indicate probable future action. Actually, I probably do that less, since I think all politicians spin and spin to get as many people on board as possible.

In terms of the bankruptcy law, Obama said he would "reform" and gave a few weak specifics about the very limited people who might benefit from said reform. If that's not the strongest indicator of how he will deal with the bill, by all means, I would love for YOU to show me a better way.

[napi21]

42. Why do you all hate the BK bill so much? I certainly would propose

an exception for health care expenses, but there wre a lot of people who were abusing credit. Some because of lack of self control, and some intentionally. I don't understand all the anger.

[peacetalksforall]

29. Why can't a person state displeasure and a lack of trust without being told to vote

for McCain? It's the same as being told to move out of the country if I don't like it.

[MiniMe]

16. If you heard the speech that Joe just made, you will know why

He opened a can of whoop-ass on McCain

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

17. Politics as usual. Still chasing the mythical "middle".

As usual, they are taking the left for granted.

[chknltl]

19. I liked him anyway but consider his 'like-ability factor'

Lots and lots of Americans vote on a like-ability factor and little else. When Senator mCcain's like-ability factor is contrasted to Senator Biden's like-ability factor by those who ONLY vote on like-ability, it should bring most of those votes over to the Obama campaign.

How can these guys vote against a man whose wife and child was killed in that tragic accident-who stood by his remaining boys's bedside while staying on as an employee of the American people? Contrast that with mCcain who actually ditched his first wife after she got hurt in a car accident-the same wife who stood by him the entire time he was a POW!

During the campaign, Joe, with his disarming smile and wit will be on display to those voters, as will mcCain who one can only hope has an anger breakdown, (he's known for that) along the way or gets caught cheating, (again), like he did during that religious Q and A thing last week.

Others will bring you up to speed with far better reasons that Senator Biden was picked I wanted only to focus on this one aspect. Senator Obama is the star here, make no mistake about that but Joe Biden's personal history, his 'like-ability' will bring in a significant number of voters too.

[napi21]

20. Because he wanted a seasoned foreign relations guy who was

a fighter too. Barack doesn't like negativity, and he knows that. He also knows he needed someone to hammer his opposers. He found ethics, fight, knowledge & experience all in one with Biden!

[fla nocount]

22. Change? Change what....diapers? CEO's exert their control. n/t

[Pastiche423]

28. To round out the corporate ticket

It doesn't surprise me. Everything else Obama has done since the nom is turn right.

[Joe Fields]

30. You posed a good question.

Biden is one of the few foreign policy experts in Washington. I am curious as to why Obama picked him as a running mate, since Zbigneiw has been Obama's foreign policy guru. His world view differs greatly from Joe Biden's.

Biden is bold, not afraid to speak his mind, and may even feel superior to Obama, when it comes to experience and knowledge of foreign affairs. I really wonder if it is a good match. My first impression is to think that they will clash on a few important issues, but time will tell. We will just have to wait and see how it all plays out.

Personally, I like Joe Biden and think his presence on the ticket is a positive force. I hope that Obama respects his counsel. Biden's ideas are well worth listening to.

On edit: I am somewhat surprised that Obama would pick a senator. We seem to need a super majority in congress to get anything worthwhile accomplished.

[fla nocount]

31. Bill/Hill told him to, n/t

[mmonk]

32. Good choice.

[TexasObserver]

33. Obama selected Biden because Biden was the best choice for VP.

He's qualified, he complements Obama, and he'll help Obama win and lead.

[depakid]

35. Talk about begging the question!

Basically it was a raw political calculation. Time will tell whether it was a wise or foolish choice- or one that made little difference in the end.

[coalition_unwilling]

38. But what exactly was that "raw political calculation," in your opinion?

Brent Budowsky says he approves, because O's choice shows O makes decisions befitting a prez.

If so, then the real reason may have been to demonstrate to the public O's decision-making prowess.

[fla nocount]

37. Popcorn on election night. Come on over and watch the returns.

Of course I can't both vote and buy the popcorn, extra butter though.

Obama going even further right with his Biden choice was dumb, dumb, dumb. This party gets ever more creative at beating itself before it even gets started.

[emad]

36. To shore up the Catholic vote and continue Bush1/Clinton/Bush2 era policies of

bipartisan silence on a huge US/UK cover-up about child sex abuse that the UN wanted to go public with in 1993.

Having worked for the UN for over 25 years drafting and implementing legislation I am deeply aware of the problems that successive US presidents and UK Prime Ministers have tried sweeping under the carpet.

But it won't go away.

However much I would like a Democrat President in the White House I feel that the choice of Biden will haunt Dems for years to come.

[coalition_unwilling]

39. Care to elaborate? n/t

[emad]

40. Ronald Reagan's child molestor rampage during his Hollywood years

invloved countless cover-ups including those by the LA diocese of the Catholic Church.

From the start of JFK's presidency there were a number of attempts to bring Reagan to justice. RFK had sight of private investigations by aggrieved parents as well as official covert probes by the FBI.

In the UK official security probes of parental allegations were buried under the general cover of what became known as the Profumo Affair (a UK hooker Mandy Rice Davis brought down the government by sleeping with War Minister John Profumo and a top KGB operative).

UK security always alleged they had proof that Reagan was himself a top KGB mole, hence his subsequent fasttracking into the governorship of California and then the White House.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

41. Because He's A Great Dem With A Brilliant Mind, Huge Heart, Sharp Rhetoric, Strong Conviction,

Foreign policy experience and knowledge far above anyone else and can be an attack dog while also knowing exactly what he's talking about.

Biden is an AMAZING choice.